Other Pokemon: Smogon Version OU [Route 4]

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SparksBlade

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uh yes, so let's shift the discussions from Megas to the structure Ordland. Since the gym type is Normal, we need something to reflect that. Not a dairy, we've had plenty of those and i'm speculating that we'll have the PC Breeding option installed in the PC by in the next town. Pour in ideas about what might reflect a Normal type gym.


Then there's the gym design as well. How many gym trainers are there? And will be a simple path like Cheren's/Brock's/every first gym, or do we want anything (slightly) tricky. I vote for straight.


There was a girl in the 1st gym town in Sinnoh(welp i've forgotten the name) who would trade an Abra for a Machop. Feel free to suggest something like that. And the same goes for any type of NPC.

What else? I'm not good at these so all i can do is urge you all to propose something.
 
How about something like maybe a style akin to something you'd find in older American cities (I'm from Philadelphia so I imagine something similar to Old City here). Small brick buildings with townhouses galore. Everything you'd imagine from a quaint little city. People going about their ordinary business saying rather mundane things about the life in the town or asking when their favorite store will open. In one side you'll see a bunch of construction workers working on a portion of a town that got burned down. You hear them blaming a Miltank that knocked over a lantern (a la the apocryphal story of the Great Chicago Fire).

In my view of the city, the gym would be the town hall and in the center of town (I'm thinking an obvious clocktower if we can make it). Similar to how some of the gyms of Unova are more than just the gym, there are a few rooms off the side from where you enter, but if you go all the way back you'll find the mayor's (Subject 18's) secretary who mentions that the mayor's office serves as the temporary gym while the official one is being rebuilt from the fire. The mayor's office is the gym and the one trainer is effectively the intern (who takes his job too seriously). You get around him by going around the desk that the intern is standing in front of to talk to the mayor.

Ordland's Motto could be "The City of Unending Tranquility". If you check the back of the sign, you'll find some vandalism mocking it saying "The City of Unending Reconstruction". If you talk to other residents you'll find out that the fire has been over for a long time, but that portion of the town is still not finished being rebuilt.

So in other words, the city is represented by actually a plain ordinary city. The fire part I thought was just a humorous afterthought that I then retooled into what you see here.




I'd also like to propose a pond on one side of the town and we can find a fisherman just chilling out on the other end of the pond beyond to which you need to Surf to. As a joke, I'd propose he'd say something like:

"A while back I caught a simple Magikarp here. Normally I just toss them back because Magikarp are just a dime a dozen, but this guy came up to me and asked if he could take that Magikarp off my hands. He had Poke Symbols in his eyes. I hate to be the poor sap that bought that Magikarp from him."

And then if you bought the Magikarp, the conversation will continue:

"Oh! You're the poor sap! I feel sorry for you having to train up such a useless Pokemon until it eventually evolved. Here, take this Gyaradosite. It's bound to be useful."

So you'd get the stone in this town but it won't be for some time until you do.




EDIT: And in a form of a brick joke, you'll fine on the NU Island a woman on a farm with a Miltank who's cursing out the people from Ordland for throwing her out even though her Miltank was inside her house during the fire.
 
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First: I support mega evo's after gym four or even gym five to not break the game, but maybe we could introduce them earlier as incentment.

Also:
MU for CL yeah we don't have many artists. We've turtleye for the maps-thingy(towns and routes basically) and cataclyptic's doing sprites. So counting these 2 we've only 2 artists. Maybe someone from the art block of smogon could be called over.
I uh... cannot do sprites. Trust me. I just know how to do digital art and drawings. However, I DO know a guy who can do sprites, so I'll see if I can get him in on the project.

---
I'm going to bring this up because in every pokemon game, the things that are most important to me are the starters and the legendaries. So on that note, I would like to breifly discuss the legendaries of this game.

I've mulled over the question of legendary pokemon in smogon OU for some time. I have two main proposals for legendary pokemon within this game.

Proposal one: Trio

Everyone knows that at the near end of the game, you get a really good legendary pokemon to use on your team. But since this is OU version, how can we use this when all classical endgame legends are uber? Well, the solution is obvious: use only OU legends. The real question is which ones to use.

Thus my first proposal: at the end of the game after defeating the TLS leader or whatever, you climb a mountain/cave/something and instead of there being one legendary, there are THREE. The trick is though: you can only pick ONE of them to battle. The other two will only be available after you have beaten the E4.

For this, I nominate Celebi, Heatran and Keldeo to be the three that you get to pick from. This is a classic FWG trio, and as such it can be set up such that you pick the legendary that will benefit your team the most!

Justifications for using these three: Heatran and Keldeo have been amazing ever since their respective debuts, and any decent OU player will know how good they are. Celebi on the other hand, while not as good, has still been consistently OU for almost four generations minus the brief stint with aegislash. In addition, it is one of the best grass typed mons ever.

Pros: Getting the ability to pick between the FWG core will allow players to have more control over what they want their team to be. All three are great choices, and heatran and celebi are very versatile in what they do while keldeo is a good offense mon.

Cons: It is unusual to do this in a traditional pokemon game, and may also be hard to hack.

Proposal two: The Beast

Alternatively to the last proposal, we can instead opt for one legendary. It took me a while to come up with this one, as there are not many "big" legendaries in OU. Eventually however, I realized that there was a perfect legendary that can be used, one that does not share typing with any of the three starters: Kyurem.

Why is Kyurem the best option for smogon OU? Because it has two forms, one of them is OU but the other is Uber. This would be the perfect final conflict between the player and Team Luck Sack!

Imagine this: The TLS leader gets his/her grubby hands on Kyurem, then forces it to change to white kyurem, a "forbidden" pokemon! With that on his team, he battles you and loses. Then, Kyurem senses your power and as such turns into black form and lets you battle him. There can even be a billion jokes about how its black form is "pure" due to being ou material while its white form is "corrupted and cheap".

Pros: Kyurem would be perfect for the storyline and would better fit the traditional pokemon game archetype. Additionally, Kyurem B is a great OU pokemon that does not share typing with any of the three starters, save char X.

Cons: Kyurem B may be great, but he's still one pokemon, and thus lacks the versatility that the previous proposal stipulates. In addition, this entire plan fails if in ORAS they actually give it icicle crash. Or even ice punch.


--------

As always, feel free to agree or disagree with my opinions. I personally am leaning towards the first proposal simply because it looks more fun to me.

Back in the art department, school and work are being b****es to me and as such I haven't even started on V.2 yet, though I can probably do it later today or tomorrow.
 
Cataclyptic I for one think that the best way to introduce legendaries is by making them sidequest-ish type things, kinda like the bird trio in RBY. I say this because atm, there are twenty four friggen legendaries ranked in the OU viability thread. It would be very difficult to try to provide a story justification for all of them. That being said, I also kind of dislike the idea of making them wild pokemon, just because that would be rude.

On a side note, I also believe that all OU mons should be available to the trainer before the E4. The E4 is going to use competitive, OU teams and will represent the best the player can aspire to be, and the player should have the ability to attain that same level of competitiveness. Giving the E4 exclusive mons the player doesn't have access to would make them no better then TLS.

That being said, I could totally get behind your idea for Kyub. Perhaps we could even have TLS split Kyurem, the white form is captured (cuz it's better) but black escapes. Kyub goes on a rampage and the player has to temporarily forget TLS and stop him, because everyone knows that a base 700 dragon isn't something you want rampaging across the countryside. Once the player has beaten/captured Kyub, the player storms after TLS (hopefully with Kyub in tow) and faces against the TLS leader, potentially leading up to an epic Kyub vs Kyuw showdown (he's running Kyuw regardless of whether or not you are running Kyub ofc)!

Never mind the fact that such a matchup would last at most 2 turns, but that sounds pretty awesome to me, how bout you guys?
 
WebBowser , That's actually a good idea, getting all of the OU before the E4, I hadn't considered that.

I will not lie, am happy we have some form of a description for the town now. Was getting worried that it would be descriptionless and all for a bit there.
Oh, did we need those? I thought we were waiting for Chou to come up with specifics...

Well okay, here's my two cents on Ordland: How about we populate it with a miltank farmer who lets you buy moomoo milk after you get the first gym?

NPC proposal: Farmer Brown
Type: Farmer
Description: Gives you moomoo milk (at 200 poke per bottle or a dozen for 2400)
Quotes:
"Howdy there youngin! This here Farm's famous for its moomoo milk, it's better than the one found in Johto! thisn here miltank are mah pride and joy!"
(If you don't have the gym badge): "Youngin, whatchu need mah milk for? This here milk helps pokemon grown big and strong, and you obviously ain't a real trainer without them fancy gym badges!"
(After getting the first badge) "Oh! Looks like yer fer real. Have a moomoo milk as a congratulations fer getting the first badge!" (Obtains 1X moomoo milk) "Can't give ya everythang fer free, if you want more, you need to buy it just like everyone else."

(Each time after that): "Welcome, do you need some o' mah famous moomoo milk?" ((Yes/No)) --> ((1 bottle/ 1dozen))--> "Good luck with yer adventurin, youngin!"
 
WebBowser , That's actually a good idea, getting all of the OU before the E4, I hadn't considered that.



Oh, did we need those? I thought we were waiting for Chou to come up with specifics...

Well okay, here's my two cents on Ordland: How about we populate it with a miltank farmer who lets you buy moomoo milk after you get the first gym?

NPC proposal: Farmer Brown
Type: Farmer
Description: Gives you moomoo milk (at 200 poke per bottle or a dozen for 2400)
Quotes:
"Howdy there youngin! This here Farm's famous for its moomoo milk, it's better than the one found in Johto! thisn here miltank are mah pride and joy!"
(If you don't have the gym badge): "Youngin, whatchu need mah milk for? This here milk helps pokemon grown big and strong, and you obviously ain't a real trainer without them fancy gym badges!"
(After getting the first badge) "Oh! Looks like yer fer real. Have a moomoo milk as a congratulations fer getting the first badge!" (Obtains 1X moomoo milk) "Can't give ya everythang fer free, if you want more, you need to buy it just like everyone else."

(Each time after that): "Welcome, do you need some o' mah famous moomoo milk?" ((Yes/No)) --> ((1 bottle/ 1dozen))--> "Good luck with yer adventurin, youngin!"

It is yall who do town descriptions. Cho and I are really only over stuff that isn't or hasn't been mentioned. And where is that NPC going?
 
I read the OP and I'm actually crying with laughter. Maybe add a Salty NPC, who is always whining about how he is haxed, and when you battle him, he has a competent team, but every hit you make against him is a critical hit, all his moves with a chance to miss miss, all your's hit, and at the end he says, i quit, and the NPC disappears, having left smogon.
 

Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
is a Pre-Contributor
Hello? This is Pokemon, logic doesn't need to be present.
Good one, actually made me chuckle there , but to be serious I still I don't think we should give out the ladybug badge or any mainstream badge tbh, like I said the typing for the badge makes no sense, seriously why am I getting a badge that is obviously for a bug type gym from a normal type gym, also, it makes the player think that they can get all the badges on the forums for just being good at battling, when for most (Non tournament badges), if not all (Non Tournament) badges, this is not the case. Also every reigon has its own unique badges, so I think we should stick to that (We can do stuff like Birdspam badge for a flying type gymleader or Dragmag badge for a Dragon type gym leadrr)
 
While I believe that you could easily cop out and say something like "why did we make a ladybug badge for a normal type gym? Because reasons!" kind of thing. I do think the point that you don't have only win tournaments to get recognized/get badges on Smogon, but you can do plenty of other things as well. The ladybug badge isn't related to actual battling, so why make it so it's the first badge?
 
Yeah because a bug type badge totally makes sense when given by a normal type gym leader
Uh, it's our fucking game, so we can do whatever we want. Chill.

Based on the logic of smogon, having the ladybug be the first badge you get makes total sense. It doesn't matte about the fucking type.

In addition, something I wanted to add was that we could make badge leaders of said badge be a gym leader for it. For example, oglemi would be the first gym leader since he is the ladybug badge leader. Just good for thought.
 

Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
is a Pre-Contributor
Uh, it's our fucking game, so we can do whatever we want. Chill.

Based on the logic of smogon, having the ladybug be the first badge you get makes total sense. It doesn't matte about the fucking type.

In addition, something I wanted to add was that we could make badge leaders of said badge be a gym leader for it. For example, oglemi would be the first gym leader since he is the ladybug badge leader. Just good for thought.
Even when not considering the type, it still doesn't make sense because as I told Quickbobhero already, it gives the player the misconception that the ladybug badge is one of those badges you get for being good at battling and just that, which is not the case, infact thats not the case for any non tournament badge, so I don't think we sho give the player a badge thats not for battling for defeating a gym leader
 
While I always try to let yall pick and decide over how some things are done (ie route inhabitants, who wers what, etc.) but the bickering over the badge name and or what its based off of is a bit ridiculous in some regards. I appreciate the idea of giving out one of the more accessible badges to the users, I am inclined to side with Pizza Man on this debate as I do not quite want to cause misconception over how one actually does go about gaining the badge. If it were presented with some sorta meta reference, then that be all right in some ways, but I still don't think its an alright idea. Chou Toshio still holds the final say course and also getting us to move a head a little.
 
We could also have an NPC that whines and moans if you have a legendary with you, and screams at you how they are OP or something. If you don't have a legendary on you, he'll be like, thank god, not another fgt with a legendary and if you do have one he'll scream at you.
It would make more sense if he/she was a LST member rather than a mere NPC. Personally I would prefer having a NPC that tells you that even though legendary Pokemon are usually good, some of them (Articuno, Regigigas, etc) are terrible options. This gives me the idea to have some LST member/admin that tries to fight you with a Double-Team Substitute Regigigas or something like that (later in the game).
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
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Hey guys-- sorry to keep you hanging. Still working (on Smogon) from my phone's data so-- crappy. Hopefully can get the home wifi set up this weekend.

Anyway, there are some thing I want to make clear in this thread.

I'd like to see if there's any chance of a re-evaluation of the "only evolution families from the OU Viability Rankings" restriction, seeing as you're deciding on the first gym leader. OU is obviously the flagship of Smogon and is definitely the tier that should be the frameworks for the latter stages of the game, but while that list is extensive, there's still not that many mons available to choose from when building solid gym teams, as well as creating a large variety among the various NPC trainers one would face. If a Pokemon can be found early in the game, that already may be a sign that it's not too great of a choice, and surely we could adjust the EXP curve so that it's easy to train mons to acceptable levels while still making it difficult to grind to obscene levels in order to beat tough trainers (BW was a good example in this regard, pity they changed that in XY).

And since I'm already spewing out opinions, I believe that Gym trainers shouldn't have too much variety in their teams, as their primary purpose is to show the player what their type is capable of, or teach them how to handle it. So personally I'd only want to see Monotype gym trainers, but if you choose to stick with the earlier 'clause' (only OU Viabilities), then compromises like using mons whose earlier stages have been of the gym's type, or where their moveset must have a move of said type, could be used. But using mons that has no connection to the gym's theme in their typing, movepool or origin seems just silly to me.

Edit: Elite Fours are excluded from that rule, as they're technically not gym leaders, and instead just strong trainers that prefer a particular type.

I get that you're coming from a more typical game design perspective, but this is a game that has no meaning if trying to abide too well to the typical Pokemon formula, or even the typical RPG formula. This game is only even interesting because the point is to break away from that and make something that is explicitly Smogon-- so yeah, viability list only is a foundational pillar of this thread. "We making gym leaders actually good by not mono-typing" seems pretty important to me too.


What everyone needs to understand is that while this is an obviously for-fun thread, it IS posted in Copetitive, in OU discussion for a reason.

This game idea is only fun/interesting for being a spoof of OU and having a high OU/competitive focus.

For quality discussion, we NEED more competitive-minded posts. If we don't have some degree of involvement from posters who actually seriously play OU, this project becomes far less interesting. If discussion quality drops too far, I will be considering closing the thread, or requesting it get taken over in Orange Islands. (If they'll have it)

The warning signs to me:
-No posts at all about the name/character of the gym leader, worry me we have no competitive players from the tourney scene
-Not enough interest of discussion of sets/team design in the last page
-not enough interest in town design and story line

We need more posts like Mike's.

We need more:
-competitively minded discussion/imput
-interest in town/story design
-more details on the gym leader (sets and character design-- NAME)

If quality doesn't improve more--need more CONTENT-- then will have to consider future of the thread.
 
Okay, from a few pages earlier, Subject18's team is Fletchinder, Bunnelby, Clefairy, Chansey, Gligar and Loudred. I'm assuming that the maximum pokemon level the leader will have is 20, and along with that, I'll assume that Eviolite won't be used as a held item, as there'll be plenty of Eviolite Chansey in the future. I'm also going to avoid Wish Chansey for the same reason. The gym gives out Protect, so I wanted to include that moveset on some of the pokemon, but without using Toxic and Protect, as Gliscor can do that a lot more effectively than Gligar. Anyway, here's my attempt at a team that's threatening, but beatable. I wanted to play with speed a bit in this team, with the idea that between Mud Shot, Bulldoze, Thunder Wave and Gale Wings, your team is likely to be moving last. I'm not sure what we're doing with EVs, so I've only included the natures.

Bunnelby @ Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 18
Jolly Nature
- Tackle
- Quick Attack
- Mud Shot
- Spikes

The lead pokemon. Huge Power Take Down seems a bit too strong, so I went with Tackle instead. Someone in VR suggested that Spikes Sash Diggersby was viable, so why not try it here on Bunnelby?

Chansey
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 18
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled

Even without Eviolite, Chansey's likely to be quite difficult to kill, so there's no Toxic, and Thunder Wave is also effective on Chansey.

Clefairy @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 18
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Disarming Voice

For support, with Wish + Protect being given to Clefairy over Chansey.

Gligar @ Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter Immunity
Level: 18
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Aerial Ace
- Bulldoze
- Protect

I didn't want to use Roost yet, and Protect + Leftovers is just a taste of the fun that comes when facing Gliscor's Protect + Poison Heal. Gligar learns Knock Off at level 10, so I had to include that.

Loudred @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 20
Jolly Nature
- Uproar

Uproar is 90 base power, and is a level up move at Level 5, so despite its high power, it was the only choice to make Loudred stand out on the team. With Scrappy, there's no need to run any other move, and it's just a low powered version of the only decent Exploud set in OU, Specs Boomburst. In order for Loudred to evolve, it needs to be Level 20, so it could possibly be replaced with Whimsur.

Fletchinder @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 20
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Incinerate

The signature pokemon, and the only one with a setup move. Aerial Ace seems like the most balanced Flying STAB to use, as Peck is too weak, and itemless Acrobatics is too strong at this stage of the game.
 
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