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Ladder Balanced Hackmons
- Thread starter verbatim
- Start date
It isn't hard; you just make sure your team is built well
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
but in that retrospect NOTHING is counterable. in fact, chansey and shedinja are the closest things to having counters since both only need you to make minor moveset and team choices to fix their downsides. stop treating this meta like other metagames. gale wings talonflame might be able to be countered by heatran, but in this meta nothing would stop it from running thousand arrows to get past it. get what im saying? chansey might not have a "easy counter method" but neither does ANYTHING else in this meta, however, chansey is perhaps the easiest to counter in this entire meta, since NO ONE can alter YOUR sets to get past YOUR counter.
my argument isn't flawed, you just don't realize "countering" in a meta where EVERYTHING is accessable to pokemon is impossible not "nearly impossible" it IS impossible. and even then my point still stands, my stall team has counters to EVERY one of my sets that i use. if you send chansey in on any of my pokemon, your basically giving me momentum wheither you like it or not. and the thing is, i didnt even INTEND for it to have that purpose. i accidentally made my team imposter proof.
lastly, i dont think you understand what a counter is: "something that can repeatably switch into the threat and win the scenario each time" which "not letting the imposter do anything to you while you can do stuff to it" counts as a "Counter" like how 100% of my-and plenty other- teams do.
if i sound rude then i apologize but countering your own team is SUPER simple. and although it might be hard to cover all threats, its something you just have to deal with. since 6 pokemon have absolutely NO WAY to handle EVERY SINGLE set this meta can throw out. viable or not.
Just a nitpick, but everything is counterable. You're just less likely to have a counter to any given Pokemon since it's more match-up based due to the number of variations a set may have. For example, Giratina would pretty heavily counter Gale Wings Talonflame you mentioned as, even with Adamant and a Band, Brave Bird only does ~50% to 0 HP 0 Def neutral nature Giratina, so since most would be running either 252 HP or 252 Def, (or some sort of mixed bulk spread), they would take much less damage and could switch in and recover spam to let Talon KO itself with recoil. No real coverage options work since the best in terms of BP, Dragon Rush, only does slightly more damage than Brave Bird.
Or, more relevant to the tier, Aggron-M counters most Kyu-B sets since they run physical only moves and Thousand Arrows only does, again, ~50% to 0/0 Aggron (so likely a lot less in practice since I think most are 252/252 HP/Def). However, options do exist, and Kyu-B does about ~60% with 0- Sp. A Aura Sphere to the same Aggron, meaning Aggron only becomes a check in that scenario since Kyu-B wins if Aggron switches into Aura Sphere. But if it gets in safely, it can threaten with, say, a burn or Gear Grind to force Kyu-B out, cripple it, or KO it.
So, TL;DR, counters do exist in BH, you're just not as likely to have one on your team for any given set.
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
definition of a counter: can switch in in ANY SCENARIO VS A certain POKE AND WIN every time. aka, if the poke can have a different moveset, then that is factored too, for example, genesect only has ONE counter in heatran(even then thats debatable since hidden power ground). just because it runs tbolt, ice beam, flamethrower, and bug buzz, doesnt make chansey a genesect counter. since it CAN run physical sets/attacks to get past chansey(its main set ran u-turn so even then chansey wasnt a counter but work with me here). counters don't exist because NO pokemon in this teir can switch into another with 100% chance of winning in ANY given scenario vs that pokemon since we have NO restrictions on movesets.
idr where the actual post is in smogon, but that is what smogon considers a counter, and if you find the post plz post it just to see if my memory is right or not :P
tldr: counters DON'T exist in bh since we cant hard wall a poke with the entire type spectrum of coverage
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Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue32/checks-and-counters
It's a smog article but you're pretty close to right
obviously people know the standard sturdy shedinja wasn't that on here already?If you're talking about Sturdy Shedinja, we all know.
but Idk thinking up new sets is one of the best things to do in BH imo.
I'm not trying to start an arguement, but I'm familiar with that article and the definition. According to it...
It then goes on to explain that Aero-M with a particular set checks Scizor and gets countered by Landorus if it runs Fire Fang, but the reverse is true if it opts for Ice Fang instead. Which is, about like what I was pointing out above. But if it's clearer than what I said, then BH is a very set-depenent tier when it comes to counters. Or a tier with few hard counters, which is when a Pokemon counters every possible common set the opponent can run.
Emphasis mine.
It then goes on to explain that Aero-M with a particular set checks Scizor and gets countered by Landorus if it runs Fire Fang, but the reverse is true if it opts for Ice Fang instead. Which is, about like what I was pointing out above. But if it's clearer than what I said, then BH is a very set-depenent tier when it comes to counters. Or a tier with few hard counters, which is when a Pokemon counters every possible common set the opponent can run.
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
ahh allright, yeah, i was a bit sceptical after noting that it didnt say anything about it, but now that you pointed out somewhere that DOES state that, i will take back what i say about there being no counters, sorry rumors. that was my bad.
So could anyone help me get into the whole -ate hype? Maybe they're paied with Choice items or something?
Kit Kasai
Love colored magic
The main thing about them is they take advantage of powerful normal type moves. On the physical side, we have extremely powerful revenge killers utilizing high priority moves in Fake Out + Extremespeed. On the special side, we have Boomburst, which is an insanely high base power, spammable move.
We'll sh**! Now that is broken. O_o'
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
lol and when you add the two togeather, which many pokemon can and will do, then its understandable why people want the suspect test.
So deviating from the check-and-counter argument, I feel like introducing a certain late game or even early game cleaner that I have used pretty effectively:
Banette-Mega @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Knock Off/Shadow Claw/Shadow Sneak
- Protect
- Extreme Speed
Unburden is a pretty solid ability that gives players a fearsome sweeper that is also meant to be somewhat "imposter proof". When it comes down to the matter of unburdeners, we tend to think of things like unburden acrobatics Ho-oh or unburden extremespeed Mega-Mewtwo-X/Slaking. However, when it all comes down to it, unburden Ho-oh gets destroyed by -ated extremespeeds that run rampant in the meta, as well as prankster topsy-turvy/heart swap and unburden Mega-Mewtwo-X/Slaking just flat out loses to chansey.
(note that extremespeed ho-oh also loses to chansey)
Mega Banette has a niche in that it can actually kill:
a) Chanseys (doesn't take ANY damage whatsoever)
b) -Ate spam
c) Non ghost type topsy-turvy users.
To go over the set: EVs are to outspeed Jolly M-Aerodactyl after unburden, which is the fastest thing that Banette doesn't kill with extremespeed. Knock Off, Shadow Claw, and Shadow sneak are really preference; getting rid of items is nice, although shadow claw's power not decreasing over multiple hits on something like mega-aggron is important. Shadow sneak kills ghost type topsy-turvy users and friends (and potentially steel typed ones). I use protect over King's Shield and Spiky Shield because they aren't really need it, all they do is make more unnecessary uneccessary chansey mindgames.
On top of that, it's perfect for sweeping people during Halloween season.
Thoughts/opinions? Or is this too niche?
Banette-Mega @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Knock Off/Shadow Claw/Shadow Sneak
- Protect
- Extreme Speed
Unburden is a pretty solid ability that gives players a fearsome sweeper that is also meant to be somewhat "imposter proof". When it comes down to the matter of unburdeners, we tend to think of things like unburden acrobatics Ho-oh or unburden extremespeed Mega-Mewtwo-X/Slaking. However, when it all comes down to it, unburden Ho-oh gets destroyed by -ated extremespeeds that run rampant in the meta, as well as prankster topsy-turvy/heart swap and unburden Mega-Mewtwo-X/Slaking just flat out loses to chansey.
(note that extremespeed ho-oh also loses to chansey)
Mega Banette has a niche in that it can actually kill:
a) Chanseys (doesn't take ANY damage whatsoever)
b) -Ate spam
c) Non ghost type topsy-turvy users.
To go over the set: EVs are to outspeed Jolly M-Aerodactyl after unburden, which is the fastest thing that Banette doesn't kill with extremespeed. Knock Off, Shadow Claw, and Shadow sneak are really preference; getting rid of items is nice, although shadow claw's power not decreasing over multiple hits on something like mega-aggron is important. Shadow sneak kills ghost type topsy-turvy users and friends (and potentially steel typed ones). I use protect over King's Shield and Spiky Shield because they aren't really need it, all they do is make more unnecessary uneccessary chansey mindgames.
Thoughts/opinions? Or is this too niche?
It seems a bit niche, but is also seems to do its job. I would use spiky shield though, as Shadow Sneak Sturdninjas do exist.
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
Swap out Protect for King's/Spiky Shield.
Illusio
Bold and Brash
I've recently been running a pretty nice Keldeo set recently that works great as a late-game sweeper.
Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- That's it.
- You expected more?
- Why are you still reading this?
This monster basically OHKOs basically everything it touches in the late game, having only a few counters.
Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- That's it.
- You expected more?
- Why are you still reading this?
This monster basically OHKOs basically everything it touches in the late game, having only a few counters.
- Grass/Dragon/whatever resists Water
- Priority
- Aerilate/Pixilate
Adaptability might be better if it's a solo rain abuser, so that way you don't have to worry about rain messing with your team otherwise. On the other hand, Drizzle lets you annoy the occasional different weather team, most notably sun.
You may also consider Palkia if Keldeo isn't outspeeding any specific threats that you need to outspeed.
You may also consider Palkia if Keldeo isn't outspeeding any specific threats that you need to outspeed.
]In BH how come you cannot have a mega gengar with shadow tag unless it mega evolves from a regular gengar? It should be like AAA where if the pokemon gets the 'banned' ability naturally it should be able to keep said ability
This is what happens if you try to use a Mega Gengar with Shadow Tag....
Your team was rejected for the following reasons: - Skipped Leg Day (Gengar-Mega)'s ability Shadow Tag is banned by Balanced Hackmons.
This is what happens if you try to use a Mega Gengar with Shadow Tag....
Your team was rejected for the following reasons: - Skipped Leg Day (Gengar-Mega)'s ability Shadow Tag is banned by Balanced Hackmons.
Because Shadow Tag is broken as fuck on anything that isn't forced to hold a Mega Stone and Mega Evolve, and arguably is on things that do have that restriction.
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
no...no it really shouldn't be like AAA. shadow tag is just stupid and unfair in this metagame, and gengars mega stone utilizing it is just because of how mega stone mechanics work(so technically it should be banned too). i would rather not face a beefed up perishtrap poke that can effectively take down/force set up on half the tier with no effort whatsoever. i'm quite fond of how this tier has a distinct lack of trapping brokefests. so let us keep it that way.
You think Mega Mewtwo Y with Contrary is op Try out Mega Mewtwo X with contrary and V-create and Close Combat and Superpower, just saying.
I'm new here
Hi.
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Welcome.
I think MM2Y has a bit of an edge because it has a higher special attack to abuse stored power with, although MM2X has good stats to use moves like superpower to their full extent and can counter dark types.
Welcome to the forums BTW!