Gen 6 Omega Ruby / Alpha Sapphire Mega Evo discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
More kinds of discussion of the different Megas might be interesting and how they would affect the meta even with all this competition (MegaGross could be cool), as all this Primal Donner talk is pretty depressing :(
Well, what can you expect really? They took an already good mon, gave it a secondary typing that reduces it's weaknesses to two, and then gave it an ability that completely nullifies it's 4X weakness to water, which was by far the scarier of the two weaknesses. So basically it's only weak to ground, has phenomenal offensive typing, one of the trolliest abilities in existence, and some above average stats to tie it all together (by ubers standards, which is pretty friggen good). When people are seriously considering scarf golduck of all things just to merely check this beast, things are looking pretty bad...

On a related note, how does Groundceus fair against this behemoth?
 

Fireburn

BARN ALL
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I guess I can try to talk about some of the other ones:

Mega Diancie is nifty. It's Speed isn't ideal (110 is great but it'd really like to be able to outspeed Mega Ray/Mence/Jolly Ekiller), but it has very good offensive capability, boasting 160/160 mixed offenses with STABs on Rock and Fairy. Sets will probably look like some variation of this:

Diancie @ Diancite
Naive Nature
4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
-Moonblast
-Earth Power
-Diamond Storm
-Stealth Rock / Heal Bell / Calm Mind

Moonblast and Diamond Storm are obvious STABs. Earth Power 2HKOes Primal Groudon and takes care of most other Fairy resists. The 4th moveslot is utility: Calm Mind can potentially enable a sweep, Stealth Rock is cool on a Magic Bouncer (you can set up SR against a lead like support Dialga or Deoxys-S while they can't set up theirs, giving you momentum, free Rocks, and a free Mega Evo), and Heal Bell lets you act as an offensive cleric which is useful on a lot of teams.

This has a lot of notable advantages over Xerneas: the deer would certainly kill to get Earth Power or Diamond Storm (which makes Ho-Oh a non issue), its faster (outspeeding Palkia is sweet), and SR gives it utility Xerneas can't provide. Very dangerous Pokemon overall, even if you're busy drooling over Ray/Mence don't underestimate this princess.

Mega Metagross also probably wishes it were faster, but its still a dangerous Pokemon. 145 Attack with Tough Claws and access to boosting moves in Agility and Hone Claws make it no slouch offensively, and it is quite bulky with 80/150/110 defenses. It can also act as a solid check to all Xerneas sets, OHKOing with Meteor Mash or revenging GeoXern with Bullet Punch. It was a wide movepool to use with Tough Claws, with both STABs benefiting and lots of coverage options in Earthquake, Hammer Arm, Elemental Punches, and Grass Knot, as well as Stealth Rock to give it some added utility. Unfortunately, it's relatively low base power STABs hinder its sweeping potential even with Tough Claws, and Primal Groudon is obviously a huge pain in the butt for it. Being slower than MegaRay/Mence/Jolly Ekiller sucks pretty hard too. I don't see it getting too much usage to be honest, but its not terrible on teams that need a fast Fairy check/possible SR user that can take some hits. It also has a strong and fast Explosion for when its cornered, which might actually come in handy sometimes...

I tried Mega Beedrill today, it's a fun mon but it's not that good. It's super frail, not overly strong even with Adaptability since its STABs aren't hard to wall and it lacks really high BP moves, and usually has to waste a moveslot on Protect since its base form has no bulk and 75 base Speed. Also Primal Don/Mega Ray/Mega Mence all eat it alive which is just lulzy. I tried it on a double U-turn core with Genesect, but Genesect is pretty much just 100% better and did 90% of the work itself lol. Anyway this is the set I used:

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Jolly Nature
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
-U-turn
-Poison Jab
-Protect
-Toxic Spikes

Use Protect to ensure you Mega Evolve without getting killed and then pretty much just spam U-turn. Poison Jab is for Xerneas and whatever you can get a neutral hit on. If Beedrill is going to die or might force a switch, feel free to throw down some Toxic Spikes.

This Pokemon also gets Swords Dance and Drill Run/Knock Off for good coverage options, which you may be able to sweep with if you have a Wobbuffet and some luck. I wouldn't use Mega Beedrill on a serious Ubers team though.

Aside from the Dragons, none of the other Megas seem too useful. Mega Camerupt is probably the worst one by sheer virtue of Primal Groudon existing lol.

e: Actually I lied there was one more that looks sort of interesting:

Mega Sceptile is kind of useful simply because it's fast as balls (fastest Dragon in the game) and packs an acceptable punch. It's very frail and tough to switch in, but its STABs can lay the hurt on the Primals/Mega Dragons, and it outspeeds quite a bit of the metagame. In fact, it's so fast that you can run a nature that boosts Atk/SAtk and still outspeed Shaymin-S. A possible set might be this:

Sceptile @ Sceptilite
Rash Nature
4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
-Leaf Storm
-Dragon Pulse
-Focus Blast / Earthquake
-Rock Slide

Basicially it's a simple hit-and-run attacker. Leaf Storm destroys Kyogre and does huge damage to Primal Groudon (doesn't OHKO due to Fire-typing but it does a ton). Dragon Pulse kills other Dragons (of which there are many) and has solid neutral coverage. Focus Blast covers Dialga and Ferrothorn while Earthquake hits Klefki and Heatran. Rock Slide is for Ho-Oh.

Even with Rash nature, Mega Sceptile doesn't have a lot of damage output unless it is hitting super effectively, so it probably will not be very common at all, but it can at least perform well against those Groudon/Kyogre/Rayquaza/Salamence teams that will inevitably pop up at the start of ORAS. :p
 
Last edited:
I am so hyped for Primal Groudon

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 132 SpA / 124 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Earthquake/Precipice Blades
- Rock Polish
- Overheat/Fire Blast
- Dragon Claw


Haven't put that much thought into Nature, however Groudons physical defense is incredible high, so I figured he would enjoy -def nature more then a -spD nature

Earthquake is a bit more reliable then Precipice blades, but really both are good. Rock Polish for sweeping purposes, I put enough speed that after a rock polish you will outspeed base 100 scarfers like Palkia and Kyogre. Overheat is going to do a crazy amount of damage, fire blast is more inaccurate and does less damage but does not have the stat drop so you can keep spaming it. Dragon Claw is to stop Giratina and Rayquaza and will do decent damage to Ho-oh.
 
Last edited:
Aside from the Dragons, none of the other Megas seem too useful. Mega Camerupt is probably the worst one by sheer virtue of Primal Groudon existing lol.
Actually, mega cam is far from the worst of the remaining megas and has an important niche: A TR Sweeper that wrecks megadon. Lookie, calc!

252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt(145 SPA) Earth Power vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Groudon(ground-fire): 498-588 (137.9 - 162.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Solid OHKO on mega donners if under TR. Doesn't even need to worry about mindgames because mega don megavolves right when he comes out. Sadly even with solid rock, groundon ohkos easily, but still, I could see this guy replacing megamaw on ubers trick room teams.

If I had to pick a worst, it's prolly mega audino. 106/126/126 bulk is decent but simply not enough for ubers, especially not without reliable recovery.
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
We had an ORAS room tour yesterday and these are some of the sets I tried out:

Rayquaza @ Rayquazite
Delta Stream
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpA
Naughty
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Ascent
~ Earthquake
~ Draco Meteor / Extremespeed

This one was a lot of fun and very powerful. Mega Rayquaza is less frail compared to Rayquaza and having power without having to take Life Orb recoil is actually really nice. I've been very impressed with Dragon Ascent so far, it's basically Outrage but spamable and with virtually no drawbacks (the defense drops basically don't even matter). Combined with Earthquake you can hit most things very hard at +1, I Earthquaked a couple P Dons and at +1 it does considerable damage but doesn't OHKO, it can clean them if they have decent chip damage. I was running Draco Meteor just in case of something like Mega Slobro, and the one time I used it (in the final match of the tour) it missed and cost me the game. I also tried Extremespeed earlier and even though Mega Ray is much faster it is still handy to revenge kill faster stuff, although it is weaker when compared to LO Ray with SD.

Salamence @ Salamencite
Aerilate
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Adamant
~ Dragon Dance
~ Refresh / Roost
~ Earthquake
~ Return / Double-Edge

Mega Mence is another DD sweeper that may prove quite powerful in ORAS. Salamence having Intimidate as a base ability is a blessing, because coupled with good physical bulk it makes setting up considerably easier. 120 is a nice speed as well, outpacing stuff like Palkia, Mega Ray, and Scarf Zekrom at +1 while still allowing you to run a +Atk nature. Unfortunately it only ties with Arceus, and looses to max speed Arceus, but since EKiller has priority anyway it's not a big deal. Max speed support Arc are normally faster, although at +1 Mence deals enough damage to where it can OHKO after the burn anyways and proceed to Refresh it off later. Again the attack moves focus around flying + ground coverage and since Mega Mence doesn't really need anything else thanks to the sheer power of Aerilate, you have the option for Refresh or Roost (or maybe both if you are willing to give up Earthquake). Double-Edge is absurdly powerful at the cost of recoil, and can even one shot unresisted support Arc at +1 if SR is up:

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 388-457 (87.5 - 103.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Arceus can give up max speed and invest in defense to usually escape the OHKO even with SR, but any chip damage means death. Even max defense Arceus-Rock is 2HKOed by +1 Mega Mence Earthquake, meaning you won't want to switch in, but Arceus Rock can still OHKO with 0 SpA invested Judgment.
 

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
The scary part is, we don't know if Rayquazite exists! The flavor text when Rayquaza Mega Evolves is much different than the others (as in no items, including the Keystone item, are mentioned). Right now, I am dreading the potential base 248.5 Atk that a Life Orb holding Mega Rayquaza possesses.
 
Last edited:

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Something that was brought to my attention, and I'm not sure this will end up being true, but apparently there will be no way to transfer mons from XY to ORAS. If this is true does this mean that ORAS will operate like a gen 7 Ubers where Xern and such mons unavailable in ORAS are banned because they are illegal alongside say Primal Groudon?

Has anyone else heard about this and can confirm / disprove?
 
Yeah let's just hope that it can't run LO.

252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon-Primal: 185-218 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 43% chance to 2HKO, guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

BE AFRAID
 
Something that was brought to my attention, and I'm not sure this will end up being true, but apparently there will be no way to transfer mons from XY to ORAS. If this is true does this mean that ORAS will operate like a gen 7 Ubers where Xern and such mons unavailable in ORAS are banned because they are illegal alongside say Primal Groudon?

Has anyone else heard about this and can confirm / disprove?
All I seen is that you cannot transfer ORAS mons/moves/items back to XY since Gamefreak aren't releasing a compatibility patch for XY, but you can take mons from XY to ORAS. Unless something new came out about the matter that i haven't seen yet i'd say theres nothing to worry about.
 

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
Something that was brought to my attention, and I'm not sure this will end up being true, but apparently there will be no way to transfer mons from XY to ORAS. If this is true does this mean that ORAS will operate like a gen 7 Ubers where Xern and such mons unavailable in ORAS are banned because they are illegal alongside say Primal Groudon?

Has anyone else heard about this and can confirm / disprove?
Serebii has the answer: http://www.serebii.net/omegarubyalphasapphire/compatibility.shtml
 

Haruno

Skadi :)
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
The scary part is, we don't know if Rayquazite exists! The flavor text when Rayquaza Mega Evolves is much different than the others (as in no items, including the Keystone item, are mentioned). Right now, I am dreading the potential base 248.5 Atk that a Life Orb holding Mega Rayquaza possesses.
To add onto this, to quote the 7 hour live stream. "Why mega rayquaza is a mega evolution and not a primal reversion will be explained in the story. In addition mega rayquaza uses different methods of mega evolving as opposed to other mega evolutions."

So mega rayquaza is 100% confirmed to not being need to hold a mega stone + pressing mega evolving. As for what its actual method to mega evolve is, your guess is as good as mine

Edit on another note why are people running eq on mega Ray again? It hits virtually nothing since heatran is shit and the power difference between Dragon's ascent and a SE earthquake is negligible
 
Last edited:

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Edit on another note why are people running eq on mega Ray again? It hits virtually nothing since heatran is shit and the power difference between Dragon's ascent and a SE earthquake is negligible
Basically all mons that resist Ascent are weak to EQ, so there is a huge power difference (90 vs. 200).
 

Haruno

Skadi :)
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Basically all mons that resist Ascent are weak to EQ, so there is a huge power difference (90 vs. 200).
Between stabs + vcreate, rock types become a non issue. And like I said, heatran is garb so there's really nothing earthquake hits that Ray doesn't hit already.
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Between stabs + vcreate, rock types become a non issue. And like I said, heatran is garb so there's really nothing earthquake hits that Ray doesn't hit already.
The only STAB Mega Ray needs is Ascent, maybe Meteor if you want to beat physical tanks like Mega Slowbro / Mega Mence. There is no reason to run a physical dragon move on Mega Ray because now it has Ascent, similar to how there is no reason to run a physical dragon move on Mega Mence.
 

Fireburn

BARN ALL
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Edit on another note why are people running eq on mega Ray again? It hits virtually nothing since heatran is shit and the power difference between Dragon's ascent and a SE earthquake is negligible
Flying + Ground hits everything at least neutrally except Skarmory/Bronzong (nothing else that resists this combo is viable in Ubers) for at least neutral damage, which gives you more freedom to run a utility move like ESpeed/Draco (Ray) or Roost/Refresh (Mence).
 
I'm tempted to try out the new Megas on Showdown but another part of me is telling me to just wait until OR/AS is released. Has anyone tried SD Mega Ray? or Sub DD?

The scary part is, we don't know if Rayquazite exists! The flavor text when Rayquaza Mega Evolves is much different than the others (as in no items, including the Keystone item, are mentioned). Right now, I am dreading the potential base 248.5 Atk that a Life Orb holding Mega Rayquaza possesses.
Wouldn't mind at all to be honest lol.
 
Between stabs + vcreate, rock types become a non issue. And like I said, heatran is garb so there's really nothing earthquake hits that Ray doesn't hit already.
dialga, tyranitar, heatram, rockceus... yeah

point is, acsent + Eq gives good enough coverage so that mega ray can run some other utility move such as Extreme Speed.

also have anyone does the calc, who hit harder mega ray or mega mence? too lazy
 

Haruno

Skadi :)
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Flying + Ground hits everything at least neutrally except Skarmory/Bronzong (nothing else that resists this combo is viable in Ubers) for at least neutral damage, which gives you more freedom to run a utility move like ESpeed/Draco (Ray) or Roost/Refresh (Mence).
yo draco/ascent/vcreate is god essentially. Ray should still be more of a wallbreaker rather than a sweeper anyhow. Last move can be filler I suppose for espeed or a boosting move if you really need a sweeper so eh. Between draco/vcreate/ascent virtually nothing relevant resists it bar like heatran but tran is shit like I've stated so heh.
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
yo draco/ascent/vcreate is god essentially. Ray should still be more of a wallbreaker rather than a sweeper anyhow. Last move can be filler I suppose for espeed or a boosting move if you really need a sweeper so eh. Between draco/vcreate/ascent virtually nothing relevant resists it bar like heatran but tran is shit like I've stated so heh.
I see no point in V-Create anymore, it's the same BP as Ascent and has more drawbacks including that it can miss. It also hits nothing, Ferro is OHKOed by Ascent at +2 while even Skarm and Zong are 2HKOed.
 
What do you need Extremespeed for in DD? I think Mega Ray is outclassed by Mega Mence by far, I'd rather use SD LO Rayquaza and DD Mega Mence.
 

Fireburn

BARN ALL
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
What do you need Extremespeed for in DD? I think Mega Ray is outclassed by Mega Mence by far, I'd rather use SD LO Rayquaza and DD Mega Mence.
Extremespeed (revenging utility and out ESpeeding stuff), much higher Special Attack, Delta Stream (Mega Rayquaza can tank an Ice Beam from Lugia or a Judgment from support Arceus-Rock while Mega Salamence can't), and Swords Dance are all nice perks. I wouldn't say it's outright outclassed. Having much higher base Speed than regular Rayquaza is nice too.
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
I think DD Mega Ray is not outclassed by mega mence. One of the things that's going to be annoying is Double Edge recoil putting it into kill ranges against priority (Yv eltal/EKiller mainly). While Dragon Ascent's defense drops do the same, Rayquaza has more freedom to switch out and not be at <50% HP (even though Mence does get Roost). Also using Return > DE makes it weaker than Mega Ray.

Delta Stream is also pretty useful as Rayquaza won't fall to weak Ice Beams and Stone Edges from the likes of Lugia (who will probably run it now to cover these dragons), Groudon (DClaw/Tail aside), and some defensive Arceus formes. Can also remove Desolate Land which is neat if you want to pivot/sack into Kyogre or something. Mence has Intimidate for pivots but it loses that upon mega and base mence is pretty useless.

If we're getting to other sets then Ray is just more flexible with access to SD and mixed, while Mence is stuck in DD variants which are really not that different from each other

However, it's obviously ideal to run Mega Mence and regular Ray if you want to run them both.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top