Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
What do you guys think about EQ on mega sceptile? I can't stand focus miss, and with a hasty nature (sceptiles defence is already trash) and a measly 16 EVs in attack you guarantee the OHKO on scarf magnezone. It also hits heatran much harder and doesn't miss.
What do you guys think about EQ on mega sceptile? I can't stand focus miss, and with a hasty nature (sceptiles defence is already trash) and a measly 16 EVs in attack you guarantee the OHKO on scarf magnezone. It also hits heatran much harder and doesn't miss.
Never run Hasty, since it makes you take more from Sucker Punch and Extreme Speed.
252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Sceptile: 237-279 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Sceptile: 208-245 (74 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Sceptile: 156-185 (55.5 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Dragon Pulse
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
ability: Overgrow -> Lightning Rod
item: Sceptilite
evs: 136 Atk / 162 SpA / 212 Spe
nature: Rash
or evs and nature:
136 Atk / 188 SpA / 184 Spe, Naive
136 Atk guarantees OHKOing Heatran after SR with EQ, on the first spread 212 Speed on the first spread always ouspeeds Greninja without a positive speed nature being necessary and Rash nature with 162 SpA evs hits harder than 252 SpA evs with a neutral SpA nature. The second spread has just enough speed evs with the positive speed nature included to always outspeed Mega Lopunny and Mega Manectric and the rest is thrown into SpA. I prefer the first spread for more special attacking power and outspeeding and KOing gren is always awesome, but if you're team is weak to Mega Lopunny and/or Mega Manectric then I'd recommend the latter spread.
Hyper Voice will be available as a move tutor in the remakes, no? Since you can only get the Mega Stone there, there is no reason to run Echoed Voice. Btw, I believed there was a better EV spread somewhere in the thread. It can counter both Mega Zards.
Well, it'll work about half as good as the CM set. It's so ridiculously easy to set up with mBro. You have no fear of crits and if you ever get statused you simply rest up. If you just want to get to +6 you'll still probably have an easier time with the CroBroken set.
Well, it'll work about half as good as the CM set. It's so ridiculously easy to set up with mBro. You have no fear of crits and if you ever get statused you simply rest up. If you just want to get to +6 you'll still probably have an easier time with the CroBroken set.
It just leaves you open to the one thing the opponent has to stop megabro and you've just belly drummed and are now switching out. If you dont switch your mega is gone.
Feel free to use it. It's just one of those gimmicks that is too gimmicky to work.
It just leaves you open to the one thing the opponent has to stop megabro and you've just belly drummed and are now switching out. If you dont switch your mega is gone.
Feel free to use it. It's just one of those gimmicks that is too gimmicky to work.
i kinda agree with that though i guess you need an appropriate teammate who could get rid of slowbro's checks then you're free to drum on whatever else
So I've been playing a few battles with mPidgeot and it's straight up in the middle. It does what it does (Hurricane spam) very well, but otherwise it's not very flexible nor is it overly powerful as a mega should be.
Overall, while I do like it, and it does its job well, I wouldn't recommend using it as your mega unless you really want to.
Pros:
- No Guard makes for fantastic hurricane/heat wave spam
- can take care of itself via roost and provide some team support through tailwind and defog
- decently bulky. Won't get one-shotted by anything other then SE moves or nuke moves
- easy to build around
Cons:
- Not overly powerful
- once players are more familiar with it, it will be far less dangerous
- just slower than many fast threats who beat it
- lack of coverage
- ability makes thunder and stone edge, the latter more common, hit without fail
In summation, pidgeot has gone from a very sub par pokemon to a pretty good mon, but not a mega mon.
So I've been playing a few battles with mPidgeot and it's straight up in the middle. It does what it does (Hurricane spam) very well, but otherwise it's not very flexible nor is it overly powerful as a mega should be.
Overall, while I do like it, and it does its job well, I wouldn't recommend using it as your mega unless you really want to.
Pros:
- No Guard makes for fantastic hurricane/heat wave spam
- can take care of itself via roost and provide some team support through tailwind and defog
- decently bulky. Won't get one-shotted by anything other then SE moves or nuke moves
- easy to build around
Cons:
- Not overly powerful
- once players are more familiar with it, it will be far less dangerous
- just slower than many fast threats who beat it
- lack of coverage
- ability makes thunder and stone edge, the latter more common, hit without fail
In summation, pidgeot has gone from a very sub par pokemon to a pretty good mon, but not a mega mon.
The tiny movepool pidgeot has is the real issue. It has to run HP ground, which requires either an imperfect special attack iv or imperfect ivs in every other stat, or it won't be able to touch heatran. With it however, it can deal with heatran fairly nicely:
252 SpA Pidgeot Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 192-228 (49.8 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. It should be mentioned this is using timid nature. I don't know if modest is a better option or not.
You're very right in that it only has one thing it can do well(hurricane spam), so it's the opposite of a jack of all trades.
I have yet to come across a Pidgeot-Mega that I've found actually threatening. It is painfully predictable, and it's not powerful enough to break the flyspam checks that pretty much every team already runs, like Tyranitar, Rotom-W or Raikou. While it's a neat concept, and something that I really wanted to be successful, it just doesn't seem to have what it needs to do well in OU.
On a separate note, anyone else noticed a sharp increase in CB Scizor usage on the ORAS ladder? I use one myself, and it's pretty great. Having strong priority on hand is kind of a must with many of these new Megas, and CB U-turn deals a whopping 50% damage to 252/252+ MegaBro.
Also, is it just me or is MBro not really that good, or rather, not as amazing as everyone said it would be? I mean yeah, it takes hit incredibly well, and crit immunity makes it easy to set up, but for whatever reason, no matter what team I'm using I can always get past it, and it's not like I overprepare for it or anything. MBro's problems mainly stem from how susceptible it is to getting worn down. If it runs Slack Off it's screwed over by Toxic and, to a lesser extent, Burn which turns a lot 3HKOs into 2HKOs, if it runs Sleep Talk that means I just need to 3HKO it to beat it. I don't think I've actually lost a MBro on the ladder yet, but that may be just me.
The problem I'm seeing with alot of Mbros is that they are running the CM set. TBH I think that is a waste of slowbro's true potential. People are sleeping its 130 base SpAtk. This is the set I've been running with great success!!!
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpDef / 252 SpAtk
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Fire Blast/Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off
This set works wonders. Being able to fire off powerful scalds is scary. Backed by great coverage moves. Ice beam is for lati@, flyers, and MOST importantly Salamence(who isnt banned yet). Fire Blast is specifically for taking out bulky grass who love to switch in, namely Ferrothorn. Grass knot is for bulky waters, namely Rotom-W who is equally everywhere. So it is up to team preference between the two. I believe Ice beam should take priority over the two because of Salamence. Having to rely on scald burns to stop salamence is not a reliable strategy
I have yet to come across a Pidgeot-Mega that I've found actually threatening. It is painfully predictable, and it's not powerful enough to break the flyspam checks that pretty much every team already runs, like Tyranitar, Rotom-W or Raikou. While it's a neat concept, and something that I really wanted to be successful, it just doesn't seem to have what it needs to do well in OU.
On a separate note, anyone else noticed a sharp increase in CB Scizor usage on the ORAS ladder? I use one myself, and it's pretty great. Having strong priority on hand is kind of a must with many of these new Megas, and CB U-turn deals a whopping 50% damage to 252/252+ MegaBro.
Yep. Focus Blast and boomburst are two moves it misses very much. There's still hope for focus blast as a new TM move but far less for boomburst, though I don't know how swellow can get it but not pidgeot.
In any case, once a mon, mega or not, gets me theorymonning I abandon it cuz it hurts too much to know it could be so much better (I say this tongue in cheek XD)
Now I wanna go try out mGallade and mSwampert.
Swampert especially because I burned it with specially defensive Jellicent yet it still did about 40% with earthquake which was pretty impressive!
Hey Josh Morales, you keep touting that spread, but I actually think it's really suboptimal. You should really be running at least enough Speed EVs (plus a Naive nature) in order to outspeed Mega Lopunny. This is pretty crucial and not sure why you would want to forfeit Speed for some arbitrary amount of higher power. I also wouldn't bother running so much Attack to nab a guaranteed OHKO on Heatran, I mean 76 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 320-380 (83.1 - 98.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock this is fine and dropping Special Attack is a silly forfeit.
Another set I think is cool on Mega Sceptile is Sub + 3 Attacks with Giga Drain and Focus Blast. Many offensive teams focus on revenge killing to beat it, so Subbing up can be really destructive. Also helps vs Bisharp which can be a pain. Obvious downside is being forced to run Focus Blast but the premise of the set is pretty cool, Giga plus a few HP EVs gives it a little longevity too.
One thing I've found is that it really benefits from Healing Wish support from the likes of Latias and Jirachi are mainly what I'm talking about. That allows you to play it so much more aggressively and on the whole makes it way more effective.
I have yet to come across a Pidgeot-Mega that I've found actually threatening. It is painfully predictable, and it's not powerful enough to break the flyspam checks that pretty much every team already runs, like Tyranitar, Rotom-W or Raikou. While it's a neat concept, and something that I really wanted to be successful, it just doesn't seem to have what it needs to do well in OU.
On a separate note, anyone else noticed a sharp increase in CB Scizor usage on the ORAS ladder? I use one myself, and it's pretty great. Having strong priority on hand is kind of a must with many of these new Megas, and CB U-turn deals a whopping 50% damage to 252/252+ MegaBro.
I noticed the increased use of CB Scizor earlier, although it was checked quite well with my Scarf Magnezone and Rotom-W. Has anyone thought of using Mega Beedrill as a late-game cleaner with Pin Missile? I understand it's rather inconsistent compared to X-Scissor, but the power after 4-5 hits is a cool idea; plus the ability to break through subs and still damage is cool. Team support is necessary as far as hazard control and removal of priority users, of course.
Hey Josh Morales, you keep touting that spread, but I actually think it's really suboptimal. You should really be running at least enough Speed EVs (plus a Naive nature) in order to outspeed Mega Lopunny. This is pretty crucial and not sure why you would want to forfeit Speed for some arbitrary amount of higher power. I also wouldn't bother running so much Attack to nab a guaranteed OHKO on Heatran, I mean 76 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 320-380 (83.1 - 98.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock this is fine and dropping Special Attack is a silly forfeit.
Another set I think is cool on Mega Sceptile is Sub + 3 Attacks with Giga Drain and Focus Blast. Many offensive teams focus on revenge killing to beat it, so Subbing up can be really destructive. Also helps vs Bisharp which can be a pain. Obvious downside is being forced to run Focus Blast but the premise of the set is pretty cool, Giga plus a few HP EVs gives it a little longevity too.
One thing I've found is that it really benefits from Healing Wish support from the likes of Latias and Jirachi are mainly what I'm talking about. That allows you to play it so much more aggressively and on the whole makes it way more effective.
i've been running the 136 atk / 192 satk / 180 spd spread, and while the attack being that high just for heatran seems kinda wasted, the reason i don't bother pumping more into satk is that (to my knowledge at this point) the extra power nabs literally no extra KOs than the 192 one. i'm sure there's stuff i've missed but it's more than enough to ohko latios and manectric after sr on top of heatran so i don't really see the point tbh
Scizor just got a whole lot better. Bullet Punch hits many of the speedy megas at least neutrally and is notably the only SE priority move for Mega Altaria. It's also a Steel type that isn't weak to Drill Run when it comes to Mega Beedrill. And yeah, super effective U-Turn for Mega Slowbro too and those Gothithelle trappers, plus Defog. It's a lot of utility currently for one slot and still has that gorgeous typing. Totally makes sense why it's getting popular again.
I agree with Jukain, I've been focusing exclusively on Sceptile and Substitute is a great move allowing you to invest fully in speed and SpA if you'd like. It really does give you buffer room to hit with Focus Blast and it sort of works like Protect because Sceptile is already so fast even before megavolving that it can often get a sub off no problem. It does pair well with his hit and run style, as Giga Drain is a solid option if you go the Sub route. I totally did not consider Healing Wish support though, that sounds like a great thing to have.
Scizor just got a whole lot better. Bullet Punch hits many of the speedy megas at least neutrally and is notably the only SE priority move for Mega Altaria. It's also a Steel type that isn't weak to Drill Run when it comes to Mega Beedrill. And yeah, super effective U-Turn for Mega Slowbro too and those Gothithelle trappers, plus Defog. It's a lot of utility currently for one slot and still has that gorgeous typing. Totally makes sense why it's getting popular again.
I agree with Jukain, I've been focusing exclusively on Sceptile and Substitute is a great move allowing you to invest fully in speed and SpA if you'd like. It really does give you buffer room to hit with Focus Blast and it sort of works like Protect because Sceptile is already so fast even before megavolving that it can often get a sub off no problem. It does pair well with his hit and run style, as Giga Drain is a solid option if you go the Sub route. I totally did not consider Healing Wish support though, that sounds like a great thing to have.
Surprise! So I've been playing around with the ladder, the new Megas, and some of the new tutor moves as well to get an idea as to what life may be like come Nov. 21. Here's some of my early thoughts:
Mega Salamence: I have yet to build a team around it yet, but this thing is hella scary. Aerilate finally gives it a way to get past Fairy-types while also hitting Ferrothorn pretty hard. It still has the same great Attack and Speed it has always had, only with a bit more pop than before. Combine that with its great movepool (all it really needs is DD, Return, Outrage, Fire Blast / Hydro Pump) and Mega Salamence is probably the single most threatening Mega I have faced so far. Oh, and it does have Hyper Voice, though I've yet to see any special sets so far.
Use Outrage with Return and Dragon Claw with Double-Edge. Fire Blast nails Skarm and Mega Metagross. H-Pump drowns Landorus-T and Gliscor.
Mega Sceptile: As alluded to by others, the Sub + 3 Attacks set is really cool. Being able to defend against revenge killers and utilize that great Speed and Special Attack combine to make Mega Sceptile a serious threat. I have seen a couple that opt to use Leaf Storm over Sub as a one-off wallbreaking move. Sceptile has SD and enough of a physical movepool to make it work, but such a set struggles to find time to setup and fend off revenge killers. That, and the special set is so good rn. With max Speed, Mega Sceptile outspeeds +1 base 80s... yeah, that's how fast it is lol.
Sub lets Sceptile sweep more easily. Leaf Storm can break down certain walls faster if need be.
Mega Swampert: You do not want to face this on a rain team. Although it can support itself with Rain Dance, Mega Swampert works really well with Damp Rock Politoed. It has a solid physical movepool and a great Attack stat, which is something few other Swift Swimmers have. It's nothing like regular Swampert, which tends to be passive and uses residual damage to wear you down. Instead, Mega Swampert jumps for joy in the rain and then assaults you in your face. Not sure how common it will be once things settle down, but it will be THE Mega to use on a rain team for sure.
Damp over Torrent since you should be Mega Evolved long before Torrent would be useful. Full coverage lets it destroy virtually every physical wall in the tier, and the added Speed in rain lets it wipe the floor with offense. Low Kick over Superpower since its hitting Fighting weak targets harder on average (or your STABs will)
Mega Lopunny: This is a really cool Mega. It has much better bulk than Beedrill (not saying a lot) while having the room to run Fake Out to ensure its Mega Evolution. What's really the kicker is that it can run a support move in the last slot since its STABs alone do a number on most Pokemon. Toxic ruins fatmons like Slowbro and Landorous-T. Healing Wish can give a teammate a 2nd chance to sweep. Encore can lock opponents into unwanted moves. Overall, it's a great offensive Mega that can provide some support as well.
1st 3 moves are obvious. Use the support move that benefits your team the most in the last slot.
Greninja: For once, not a Mega Evolution. Greninja got a huge boost with Gunk Shot as a tutor move. No longer can the likes of Sylveon, Azumarill, Mega Gardevoir, and other such Fairy-types wall or check it. Base 95 Attack is more than enough to use the move with Protean giving it STAB. While this only serves to complicate Greninja's 4MSS, Gunk Shot is easily the best option in the last slot atm. If you liked it in XY, you'll like it more now. If you didn't like it in XY, you'll hate it more now.
Scizor: It didn't really gain anything in the way of new moves, but it gained a bunch of new targets. It fares pretty well against the majority of the new Megas, especially Mega Sceptile since it can't run HP Fire and Scizor can leave it exposed or KO it with U-turn depending on if Sceptile has a Sub up or not. Scizor still has the same solid movepool it's always had, but now has some more targets to go after and not many new ones to fear.
i've been running the 136 atk / 192 satk / 180 spd spread, and while the attack being that high just for heatran seems kinda wasted, the reason i don't bother pumping more into satk is that (to my knowledge at this point) the extra power nabs literally no extra KOs than the 192 one. i'm sure there's stuff i've missed but it's more than enough to ohko latios and manectric after sr on top of heatran so i don't really see the point tbh
You need 244 EVs to OHKO latias after rocks, which is pretty relevant. 192 EVs gives you an 81% to OHKO her. It's pretty safe to say that she might have switched in once already or that she's taken LO recoil, but just to be safe those EVs can ensure that she doesn't survive and KO you in return.
But yeah mega sceptile is pretty cool. I saw a ton of people saying it was underwhelming but after using it I don't find this to be the case at all. Right now I'm running 4 attacks (giga drain, EQ, dragon pulse, and leaf storm) and it's working out pretty well. It deals with a whole host of annoying shit in OU like rotom-w, keldeo, tyranitar if you run focus miss, greninja, the lati twins, and more.
I think i'll try out the sub set considering it's been getting a lot of buzz recently.
I don't see why everyone is so into mega swampert, personally I think it is complete trash. The biggest problem it has is that swift swim doesn't come into play until the turn after it mega evolves. This is a bit of a deal breaker for me since it is really slow before the boost and rain is on a timer anyway. Also it may have better stats but I have a hard time justifying using it over kabutops who has both priority in aqua jet as well as utility in rapid spin. To me it just isn't worth using a mega slot on a pokemon that is arguably outclassed. Maybe part of it is just that my teams seem to handle it well but I have been thoroughly unimpressed so far.
I do see why everyone is into mega Salamence because it is just nasty although luckily it is weak to rocks and still 4x weak to ice. This thing will likely end up getting banned but there isn't much else to say.
Finally I think mega lopunny might even be the best new mega out there, scrappy fake out hits everything in the game and makes it so lopunny gets to its new speed tier before the opponent has a chance to hit back. This thing is fast as hell and hits really hard (base 136 attack and base 135 speed) but it has better bulk than you would think. Sure 65 hp is nothing to write home about but base 94 def and 96 special defense really aren't bad. 371 or 408 attack if you run adamant is really good when you outspeed almost everything, especially if you switch in and get to take a good chunk of hp out with fake out and then finish your opponent off. Anyway try it out if you havent yet, I think this thing should probably get quick banned when the game comes out
Finally I think mega lopunny might even be the best new mega out there, scrappy fake out hits everything in the game and makes it so lopunny gets to its new speed tier before the opponent has a chance to hit back. This thing is fast as hell and hits really hard (base 136 attack and base 135 speed) but it has better bulk than you would think. Sure 65 hp is nothing to write home about but base 94 def and 96 special defense really aren't bad especially since it only has one weakness. 371 or 408 attack if you run adamant is really good when you outspeed almost everything, especially if you switch in and get to take a good chunk of hp out with fake out and then finish your opponent off. Anyway try it out if you havent yet, I think this thing should probably get quick banned when the game comes out
4 weakness actually because of the new fighting type, but I agree. All it needs is Return and HJK to deal damage leaving the other half of it's moveset up to you. I found ice punch to be great for coverage but I've been running PuP on lopunny and after one boost either on a forced switch or to revenge something, M-Lop becomes really hard to wall unless your opponent has a dedicated physical wall or a prankster will-o-wisper. Talonflame still scares it out so anything that takes on birdspam is a welcome team mate. Steel and ghost types also are great partners as the former walls flying and fairy type and ghost can come in on a fighting move.
