Project Counter That Threat! Mk II

[Hauntmoose]

Regirock @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide
- Drain Punch
- Explosion

0 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regirock: 93-111 (25.5 - 30.4%) -- 1.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Xatu Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regirock: 33-39 (9 - 10.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252+ Atk Regirock Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 204-240 (61 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Xatu cant touch Regi, and Regi gets an easy 2ohko. It can also beat it in 4-5 turns if it keeps Roosting.

 

[xzern]

nominations are now closed and the voting period will now begin. to vote, please simple state the name of the pokemon of the nomination which you are voting for.

the nominations

Zweilous @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Head Smash

Xatu can't touch the mighty Zwei and is OHKO'd by 3 of its moves (barring Heat Wave burns but oh well).

Musharna as a Counter

Musharna @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Psyshock
- Heal Bell / Signal Beam / Whatever

(This may or may not be kissing up for iTeddeh's vote, but whatever)

Musharna can switch in on any of Xatu's attacks, or if it goes for Calm Mind it can just boost alongside it. Due to the fact that Mushrana has significantly higher HP and Defense than Xatu, it will always with a Calm Mind war between the two.

Here are some calcs (after both have boosted all the way):

+6 0 SpA Xatu Psyshock vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 131-155 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+6 0 SpA Musharna Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 164-193 (49.1 - 57.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So apparently this thread has become "Vote for the NFE!".

......Why stop now?

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: whatever
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Dragon Tail / Megahorn

Plenty of experience with Pokemon that rely on Psychic + Fire coverage has made it clear that variants of those Pokemon using Psyshock as their STAB makes bulky Rock-types very troublesome foes for them to face. If this were a Xatu using Psychic I would reconsider, but any Rhydon comfortably takes on Psyshock Xatu (unboosted Psyshock does a piss poor 11-13%, whereas boosted Psyshock does only 17-20%), provided Giga Drain isn't used; I went with standard tank Rhydon to simplify things. Rock Blast does not make contact and does at least 60% in 3 hits, putting Xatu at risk at any moment it does not go for Roost against Rhydon.

The last move is for insurance against low Rock Blast rolls, in case Xatu decides to take advantage of them with extra Calm Minds, but usually it isn't necessary since 4 hits can do upwards of 80% to Xatu while 5 hits kills it dead, so at no point would Xatu feel absolutely safe boosting against Rhydon.

You can always go SubSD Rhydon and outright render that Xatu a liability (at the cost of longevity), up to you rly

Cryogonal @ Safety Goggles / NeverMeltIce
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Frost Breath
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Freeze Dry / Whatever

Xatu can't OHKO with Psyshock, Frost Breath is a 75% chance to OHKO. Are you feeling lucky? (if not then use NeverMeltIce/Modest for 100% chance)


RIP Hondour

I was told this thread doesn't accept just about anything anymore, so here's something else.

Aurorus @ Choice Specs
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nature Power
- Filler (Freeze Dry)
- Filler (Ancientpower)
- Filler (Earth Power, they don't really matter)

Absolute worst case Xatu runs Giga Drain (for whatever reason (I know it's not a slash)) and Aurorus switch in on rocks as Xatu boost to +1. Xatu cm again on the tri attack, hits the 43% chance to avoid an ohko then giga drain at +2. Aurorus still wins unless crit.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Nature Power vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 312-368 (93.4 - 110.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

+2 0 SpA Xatu Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aurorus: 222-262 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Psyshock does a few % less than giga, so still need crit.
+2 0 SpA Xatu Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aurorus: 214-253 (55.2 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mont Edit: see you can find decent non LC mons that aren't complete ass outside of countering the threat of the week.

edit: changed tbolt for ancientpower because tcw complained

Catgroove (Liepard) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Encore
- Thunder Wave
- U-turn

252 Atk Black Glasses Liepard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 266-314 (79.6 - 94%)

rip xatu

Murkrow @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 132 SpD
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Dark Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

The EVs are designed such that Heat Wave has basically no chance to break the Substitute if we have the same number of Calm Mind boosts.

0 SpA Xatu Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 132 SpD Eviolite Murkrow: 68-80 (21 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

On the other hand,

0 SpA Murkrow Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Xatu: 204-240 (61 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It cannot even hope to crit its way past Murkrow because Substitute.

Burd vs Burd, Burd wins.

Also, Murkrow has the bonus of not being mauled by Grass-type coverage like Rhydon and those other peasants.

@ Leftovers | Levitate
184 HP / 48 Def / 100 SpA / 176 Spe | Timid
Psyshock / Substitute / Thunderbolt / Calm Mind

This is my Xatu answer on my stall team, which otherwise gets absolutely fucking crushed by it. There's not too much to say about it. If you're lucky, the opponent will assume you're running Giga Drain and set up alongside you. Otherwise, you can set up on it for free until the opponent switches out.

This is also a really weird Pokemon for Counter That Threat. It's not a big issue for offensive teams, where there are tons of answers to it, and hyper/bulky offense is the most common playstyle in NU. It's generally only a problem for stall and balanced. This makes some of the checks and counters in here super misleading because while Pivot Liepard and CB Zweilous do shit all over Xatu, you generally wouldn't use them on teams that struggle with this set.

Regirock @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide
- Drain Punch
- Explosion

0 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regirock: 93-111 (25.5 - 30.4%) -- 1.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Xatu Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regirock: 33-39 (9 - 10.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252+ Atk Regirock Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 204-240 (61 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Xatu cant touch Regi, and Regi gets an easy 2ohko. It can also beat it in 4-5 turns if it keeps Roosting.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

I vote for Murkrow (although it could use more FeatherDance imo)

 

[Zenza]

Hollywood's suggestion of Uxie because if xatu runs Shadow ball (I've seen it) mushee doesn't win but at least Uxie will out speed most likely and wreck with t bolt

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Uxie
because it's the better option on stall teams

Murkrow is cool tho

 

[Swagalge]

Murkrow is an underused mon and I have never tried a more attacking set before, but that looks cool

 

[Shuckleking87]

Zweilous is underrated mon that wrecks so many things

 

[The Quasar]

QQ's Aurorus

 

[Karane]

Amarillo's murkrow looks good.

 

[Punchshroom]

Zweilous. Even specially defensive variants work.

 

[Roar of Noob]

Murkrow's red eyes will haunt me I don't vote for it.

 

[rural]

Amarillo's Murkrow is p cool. I've never seen an offensive one before.

 

[roxanne]

Murkrow looks super interesting.

 

[ponponyo]

Murkrow looks super

 

[Kiyo]

uxie, because its not niche at best and feather dance murkrow > sub imo

 

[xzern]

murkrow wins with 6 votes.

Week 6
Counter This Threat!

Typhlosion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power Grass / Extrasensory​

 

[Disjunction]

ok if we're talking about the bad Typh set with Fblast, I'm going to not pick the obvious Hariyama choice and go with the second most obvious choice

Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Dragon Tail
- Scald
- Sludge Bomb

Resists every hit on the set, sets up Tspikes, threatens Typh and switch-ins with Scald/phazing/etc
EDIT: ok so someone editted in extrasensory which drag still takes jack from
252 SpA Typhlosion Extrasensory vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Dragalge: 98-116 (29.5 - 34.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
EDIT EDIT: ok we're changing it to specs now? I guess I'll stick with Drag as a hard check now but can we settle this kind of stuff before we post?
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Extrasensory vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Dragalge: 146-172 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Edit: Changed my counter because Camerupt is 2HKOed by Specs Eruption after a little bit of prior damage.

Clearly not the most obvious choice, but I think Grumpig is a pretty underrated mon.
The problem with most of Typhlosions common checks and counters is that if they are flash fire they are probably 2HKOed by Focus Blast, Seismitoad and Rhydon are bopped by HP Grass, Camerupt only needs some prior damage to be 2HKOed, and Dragalage and Hariyama are 2HKOed by Extrasensory with some prior damage.
I present to you, the 100% counter to all Typhlosion sets:

Grumpig @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Thunder Wave / Toxic
- Heal Bell
- Psychic / Psychock
- Whirlwind / Signal Beam / Taunt / Whatever

Grumpig has a great Special Defense stat backed by an amazing ability in Thick Fat effectively giving it a resistance to Fire-type moves.

Calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Grumpig: 109-130 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- 38.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Blaze Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Grumpig: 121-144 (33.2 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

yumE. And in return, Grumpig can cripple it with a status move of choice, phase it out with whirlwind, or hit it with a STAB move.

 

[Blast]

Is there any particular reason this isn't Specs lol

It's like 6000x harder to wall and better of a set in general

 

[boltsandbombers]

Is there any particular reason this isn't Specs lol

It's like 6000x harder to wall and better of a set in general

But Camerupt still walls it :D
Yeah, I totally agree with you - scarf typhlosion is good, don't get me wrong, but specs is so much scarier.

 

[xzern]

changed the set to specs.

 

[Ares]

But Camerupt still walls it :D
Yeah, I totally agree with you - scarf typhlosion is good, don't get me wrong, but specs is so much scarier.

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 140-165 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

pretty shaky check with rocks up tho :/ any prior damage means you are done for

 

[boltsandbombers]

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 140-165 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

pretty shaky check with rocks up tho :/ any prior damage means you are done for

Fair enough, yeah I guess. The benefit is that it isn't weak to its coverage moves, which most of its other common checks and counters are.

 

[ponponyo]

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Defog
- Protect

Mantine can tank all of Typhlosion attacks, because of its Sp. Def bulk, and stall with Toxic & Protect

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 67-80 (20 - 23.9%)

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 66-78 (19.7 - 23.3%)

0 SpA Mantine Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Typhlosion: 164-194 (55.2 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 92-108 (27.5 - 32.3%) Before Scald

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (67 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 42-49 (12.5 - 14.6%) After Scald

Mantine appreciates hazards support too, to weak Eruption damage.

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (114 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 70-83 (20.9 - 24.8%) (With SR)

 

[Punchshroom]

Is Focus Blast even standard on Specs Typh? I'd imagine it is only slash-worthy at best.

Flareon @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Flare Blitz
- Toxic / Will-O-Wisp / Heal Bell

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Flareon: 117-138 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Flash Fire Flareon Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Typhlosion: 149-176 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Flareon Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Typhlosion: 99-117 (33.3 - 39.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Walls Typhlosion while boasting recovery in WishTect and decent enough power to bring it down in a hurry if need be. Would've suggested Altaria but that probably won't be relevant in a few month's time.