350 Cup

Ranger Mike said:
Belly Drum smeargle is a fantastic lure to nearly all of its counters although it still requires pursuit support unless you run knock off (you're smacked by gastly anyway so I prefer sacred fire) no natu, arceus, or pretty much all non ghost/rock types really like switching into smeargle. Trust me on calcs cause they are really hard to do 9.9. Anyways down to the meat of the post I wanted to bring up two mons that I find are really good. First, semi outclassed by smeargle is delibird, the santa bird is tired of getting laughed at and now is a really viable mon. I have been using it as an anti lead with fake out being able to break sashs and destiny bond to get a free kill, the things it has over smeargle are a sleep immunity and actual offensive prescence(non bd that is) but in a lot of ways it is outclassed however it will shine after a potential smeargle ban. Ok now onto the other mon which is another commonly shat upon mon: shedinja. Shedinja is a great pivot for any team being able to force a multitude of switches via wonder guard. Yeah it forces you to run hazard removal and most likely a cleric but with the amount of momentum you get from shedinja it is still really good. You can also run will o wisp to cripple physical attackers that want to come in. It can also kill off weakened things with shadow sneak off its base 180 attack which is really impressive although most of the time you will be clicking baton pass. All in all I feel that shedinja and delibird (although kinda outclassed for the time being) and shedinja are two very underrated pokemon in the 350 cup metagame and highly recommend you at least try them out!
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well delibird for sure is good but shed doesn't need cleric since it still has only 1 HP(and unless they use toxic when u Bpass you'll die before you can switch out).
 
aleuser said:
How is this process going to work?

(Pardon my double post, Forgot to refresh my page when posting the first one)
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Basically, people are going to discuss it for a while, and I am going to get the community consensus on whether they should be banned or not.
 
Ban.

For Smeargle, I mean. I have no opinion on Shroomish, having not seen it and not read any discussion on what it can do.

That's my vote.
 
Smeargle: Ban
this pokemon is easily SS+ rank here and forces you to use off-viable counters such as taunt sableye(usually gud but not here) and vital spirit mankey with vacuum wave. Also it has a similar situation as it did in AVmons

Shroomish: On the Wall
if I remember correctly this pokemon was only A or A+ rank and is hard-checked by gastly. however it possesses bulk that is real, poison heal, giga drain, and spore gives me disdain(obv I only mentioned GD for rhyming).
 
Smeargle: Ban.

I've already made a giant post detailing why this is broken so I won't comment further


Shroomish: Do Not Ban.

I don't even know why this is being suspected - it's completely walled by most grass types if you're going to use it as some sort of tank, and as a wall Foongus is almost always better thanks to Regenerator, a superior typing, and access to clear smog (missing leech seed really isn't a big deal at all).
 
Ban Smeargle

Do Not Ban Shroomish

Reasoning? Simple. Geomancy Pass or anything else pass on Smeargle will work due to the bulk given by the under 350 boost. An Abra has a slight chance of OHKOing it with Psychic Life Orb and full EVs. And since it outspeeds other strong pokemon, it can get a spore/dark void on a pokemon and easily set up for another pokemon. The ability to learn all moves gives Smeargle a HUGE niche and an overall advantage in the Metagame.

As for Shroomish, it isn't a huge threat. I've used spore and poison heal and it doesn't seem to be as hyped as I think it is. I truely thing its only high A rank and NOT s. Not worth banning
 
San Meargle

see: Adrian Marin 's post

Free Shroomish

yesiknowyoudontfreethingsthataren'tbannedstfu

I honestly don't see how this is broken. I know Spore is strong, but is it really worth banning? It can't really do much vs other Grass-types, even with Sludge Bomb or Focus Punch (#based). Also Foongus has similar traits to Shroomish - I know they're different mons that do different things, but I don't see either of them as broken, especially when Staravia and BABY AMURICA (fuck the haters :]]]]]]]) are decently common, and shit like Natu is running around.
 
All votes from previous suspect poll(ironically they were all in favor of letting it roam whereas now almost the opposite is true)
xJownage said:
smeargle: this thing is a mediocre gimmick imo, its not all that defining and is easy to beat flat out. smashpass can be stopped with offesive presence but smashpass is not an issue relevant to smeargle (if smashpass is broken ban that). smeargle has no offensive presence and pitiful bulk, there is no reason to deem it broken because all it does is provide quick support or bp boosts which can be banned independenty of smeargle to begin with.
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It's a really good gimmick.
It's on almost every team and the reason you had an easy time beating it is the players.
smash pass only needs 2 turns and most mons can't take it out in 2.
It has offensive presence sometimes(highly stressed) and good enough bulk.
macrarazy said:
Smeargle: Sure, it's very fast and can get away with Rocks, Spikes or a Spore to nullify offensive mons quickly, but it isn't necessarily "overpowered" which is why anything is suspected. Neither is it "broken" or disturbs with the state of the meta. In fact, I've only faced 1 Smeargle ever, and it was really easy to handle and not much of a dent-maker. No ban, not broken.
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there have been multiple arguments for why it's broken.
Your argument relies on a bad ladder.
Kingslayer2779 said:
Smeargle: fast taunt, spore, and set up, and hazards but doesn't really do much besides that. Not really centralizing and easy to beat. No ban
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very centralizing and requires off-viable mons to beat when facing a good player
Flying Types Rule! said:
Smeargle: It's speedy, for sure, but it's not a big enough deal for me to ban.
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explain
 
Smeargle: no opinion.

Shroomish: definitely not ban-worthy. Spore is good, sure, but it's countered by every grass pokemon and if you manage to get a sub on he won't ever hit you. After that you can just setup or immediately start sweepin'. No ban
 
So ive tested geopass smargle a bit, playing 5 matches, this is the set i used:

Smeargle @ Power Herb
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 176 HP / 80 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spore
- Baton Pass
- Geomancy
- Dark Void

and this is the receiver natu:
Natu @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stored Power
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Calm Mind

ive used a both dark void and spore because i wanted to definitely put the enemy to sleep.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/350cup-182790417
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/350cup-182792538
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/350cup-182794352
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/350cup-182798518
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/350cup-182801047

In the first 2 matches i simply won with geopass to natu. i then lost the 3rd match due to circle throw off this bear thing. then i won the 4rd match again with an geopass to natu and in the 5th match i passed to staryu cause his hounder could have had flash fire and would have been immune to my natu, however staryu then killed his team.

About the suspects:
smeargle: undecided. its good, but circle throw, dragon tail and stuff can still beat it.

shroomish: no ban, i dont get why its even discussed to be banned, i never played it but i also never had big problems with it.
 
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IMO Smeargle's hazard setting capabilities, while unparalleled, are in no way broken. It has appreciable bulk, great speed, and access to every move, but its typing and offensive presence leave much to be desired in terms of actually sticking around to set hazards more than, say, twice. Sure, once can be enough, but if that's the case, any other hazard setter would have done the exact same job then.

For all other gimmicks that aren't BP, I have no opinion of them, as I haven't faced them.

As for it's BP sets...

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/350cup-182578200 (this was the final of the daily tour yesterday)

yea, they just need to go. I'm suggesting a complex ban on Smeargle + Baton Pass. If it's still seen as overwhelming w/o BP, we'll look at it again.

Shroomish is not broken. In fact, I think I'm the onyl person that has complained about it before TBK brought it up, and clearly people don't think it's broken in any way. Do not ban Shroomish.
 
Suspect huh? Finally.

Ban Smeargle. Its just borked in almost every way possible. Not only does it now outspeed most the meta it also has the bulk to survive at least one hit from most pokemon. Its unpredictable and just too good at whatever it chooses to be (except sweeping). Its the ultimate support/bper/hazard setter. Its pretty much risk free and requires no team support.

Don't Ban Shroomish. Yes it does have PH and arceus bulk. But it also has little to no offensive presence and doesn't have the speed to spore things that can taunt it or OHKO it. Also since it relies on residual damage from leech seed/toxic, it is often set up bait for Clefairy. Shroomish is very good. But its not even S rank material. Just too many flaws.
 
TheBurgerKing99 said:
Okay, Smeargle is banned and Shroomish is not. Have fun on the ladder, while contact TI to ask him to update. :)
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Ahh nice, I was hoping Shroomish would not get banned because it is, without a doubt, hard to deal with, but there are many things that can deal with it such as bird spam, taunters and most other grass types. :]
 
Praise lord helix:

Mantyke @ Choicespecs
Ability: Swift swim
EVs: all in speed/spatt
spe-boosting nature
- surf
- air slash
- ice beam
- filler

This set is just monstruous, I tell ya. it outspeeds every non-scarfed mon in rain. All you need is a rainsetter. With STAB, boost with specs and boost in rain, surf becomes a gigantic 405 power-move which get fired off by a decent spA. And even without spDef investment mantyke's spDef reaches almost around 500 which gives it a huge amount special bulk. His typing may make him vunerable to electric attacks but with that extra flying type he doesn't care about sticky webs. And the most beautiful thing about this set: Your opponent won't even see it coming. :p
 
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I wish I had the time to make a post on smeargle. A blanket ban on baton pass + geomancy or shell smash would do the trick. Smeargle deserves to be a good rock setter and a mon to baton pass things out of, its just that geomancy and shell smash were "too good" for it to handle.
 
Has anyone given thought to a belly drum set on poliwag yet? Seems like with it's wicked high speed and halfway decent attack, it could do some serious sweeping. It's bulk leaves a bit to be desired, but it's still high enough to take a hit from something weak while setting up and then viola dangerous sweeper.
 
mac1275 said:
Has anyone given thought to a belly drum set on poliwag yet? Seems like with it's wicked high speed and halfway decent attack, it could do some serious sweeping. It's bulk leaves a bit to be desired, but it's still high enough to take a hit from something weak while setting up and then viola dangerous sweeper.
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Pretty sure unfixable used this at one point. It's pretty difficult for it to actually get off a Belly Drum and survive, particularly against offensive teams, but maybe it would do well against different archetypes.
 
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