Agree with everything you said except Clefable. Though it's lost the distinction of being the amazing Ninja counter it used to be, it still is really good and the fact that it 100% beat M-Sableye is a huge positive, as well as providing a win con in itself. The fact still remains that it easily sweeps teams that dont have tran on them (Who has to worry with the rise in usage of Duggy) and considering the decline of mons like Venusaur as well, I'd say the general trend of the meta is positive to Clef. Another thing is the 2 amazing abilities it has, one lets it annihilate stall utterly and the other lets it win CM wars with ease. I feel just because it no longer counters 1 mon that it should move down.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359
- Thread starter alexwolf
- Start date
- Status
'There are a lot of things that stop manectric ice cold' is an almost complete contradiction of the post I quoted, which is the reason why I quoted it.
And we could be getting thundurus and Mega Metagross up there too...
On that note, I support thundurus to S rank. Prankster T-wave is better than ever atm with all these dangerous sweepers and general fast mons running around. TheTaBuu put it well on page 7
I wouldn't say Thundurus is better than it was back in the Deoxys era but it has definitely started to reclaim it's notorious fame as monstrous offensive mon and a parahax troll and since the metagame has become extremely fast-paced with Mega Mence being the king it can be incredibly trolly with it's prankster t-wave and with that his offensive sets are also becoming more prevalent as Thundurus can thrive on it's unpredictability once again. While not a high S-class mon at the moment though as it does suffer against stall if it doesn't have nasty plot or taunt (which aren't popular moves on it atm) deserve to be an S-class mon, at least until the metagame calms down once again and we'll see how he'll last in the long run. But I wouldn't mind if he'd stay in A+ as I feel Greninja and especially Mega Mence are the true kings of the ORAS tier and deserve to be a tier above the rest.
Lando-T is great as ever but is not hard to play around once you discover it's set which is also not hard to scout for as you are almost always either scarf with eq, stone miss, knock off and u-turn or defensive with stealth rock instead of stone miss.
Lando-T is great as ever but is not hard to play around once you discover it's set which is also not hard to scout for as you are almost always either scarf with eq, stone miss, knock off and u-turn or defensive with stealth rock instead of stone miss.
I mean, I'm cool with it, but I have never understood why lando-t is not S rank. It's like a secret rule among the mods that lando must never be S rank. We had landorus-i as S rank for so long and people even argued about it being dropped to A+, despite almost everyone agreeing that T is the superior version. That's literally the main argument when people talk about landorus-i, its opportunity cost, because landorus-t is so good.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
Lets take this line by line.
"Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame."
Landorus-t is amazing in the OU metagame… literally undeniable.
"These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively"
It is able to perform a variety of roles effectively, like the infamous scarf set, the magnificent physically defensive set, an offensive earth plate set, or even the less common (but very good) double dance set. Each of these having there merits even if some are much easier to play with than others. Still, the key word here is variety.
"or can just do one extremely well"
Uh, hello? Isn't landorus-t considered the absolute best scarfer in the metagame and for good reason?
Although I believe the scarf set to be its best set you could also argue the physically defensive set as it serves as a great check to so many of the metagames biggest physical threats while also being one of the best SR users.
"Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted"
Check. As long as you have something that can tank water and ice attacks from keldeo and ninja (which every good team should have) landorus-t is extremely low risk high reward. Requires barely any support to do the jobs you have assigned it to.
"Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits."
Uh yep, that's landorus-t all over. The ease of which you can slap this pokemon on your team and have virtually no drawbacks is incredible and surely rivals the ease at which keldeo or latios fit on teams. Go ahead and tell me that you have played games were landorus-t hasn't pulled its weight, I dare you.
Come on, if we're going strictly on the S rank criteria landorus-t fits it all to a T. (Get it? a T? landorus-TEE?)
I would go into more detail on all of these points but my laptop is falling apart and the keyboard is totally fucked making it very hard to consistently type, + I feel a lot of great and informative things have been said about landorus-t already in this thread by various other users.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
Lets take this line by line.
"Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame."
Landorus-t is amazing in the OU metagame… literally undeniable.
"These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively"
It is able to perform a variety of roles effectively, like the infamous scarf set, the magnificent physically defensive set, an offensive earth plate set, or even the less common (but very good) double dance set. Each of these having there merits even if some are much easier to play with than others. Still, the key word here is variety.
"or can just do one extremely well"
Uh, hello? Isn't landorus-t considered the absolute best scarfer in the metagame and for good reason?
Although I believe the scarf set to be its best set you could also argue the physically defensive set as it serves as a great check to so many of the metagames biggest physical threats while also being one of the best SR users.
"Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted"
Check. As long as you have something that can tank water and ice attacks from keldeo and ninja (which every good team should have) landorus-t is extremely low risk high reward. Requires barely any support to do the jobs you have assigned it to.
"Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits."
Uh yep, that's landorus-t all over. The ease of which you can slap this pokemon on your team and have virtually no drawbacks is incredible and surely rivals the ease at which keldeo or latios fit on teams. Go ahead and tell me that you have played games were landorus-t hasn't pulled its weight, I dare you.
Come on, if we're going strictly on the S rank criteria landorus-t fits it all to a T. (Get it? a T? landorus-TEE?)
I would go into more detail on all of these points but my laptop is falling apart and the keyboard is totally fucked making it very hard to consistently type, + I feel a lot of great and informative things have been said about landorus-t already in this thread by various other users.
Last edited:
blinkie
¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯ dank meme crew
I would say mega Venusaur needs to go down from A+ to A or even A-. Honestly the opportunity cost of using a mega slot on something like Venusaur isn't worth it anymore. Stall mega Venusaur is just dead now, and its more offensive sets simply don't hit hard enough anymore with everything getting attack and defense buffs. It gets rekt by mega Mence, mega Metagross, mega Gallade, mega Latias, etc. The meta is becoming way too hard-hitting for it, and also the mons it used to be a good answer to (Azumarill, Keldeo) are not as good anymore. Bulky psychics quickly became popular after Aegi ban and even more after Mawile ban, as evidenced by rising usage of Mew, Slowbro, Rachi, Celebi, and Starmie etc.
I don't really understand why its ranked higher than Slowbro mega...?
I don't really understand why its ranked higher than Slowbro mega...?
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
The list has enough entries already to consider it easily countered, why the person you were replying to was saying that it's hard to counter was what caused me to be confused I guess. My point was that Altaria, like all of the others listed have little to no effect on Manectric's actual ability. Altaria, like Chansey just gets volt switched on as it comes in if anything, which means Manectric is doing its job, so it's pointless to list it as a counter.
Technically the only things that can counter a Mon with Volt Switch have to have an Electric immunity, since otherwise they potentially forfeit momentum even if they take shit damage from it. Off the top of my head the only actual counters that are OU-viable are Lanturn, Gastrodon, Quagsire, and Mega Swampert, though Mega Manectric is still easy to check with fast Scarfers or anything that can take a neutral hit from it.
Edit to make this on topic: Mega Venusaur needs to drop. A defensive Mon that's weak to Mega Mence is a horrible liability, to the point that it should probably drop to somewhere in B or maybe C.
Edit to make this on topic: Mega Venusaur needs to drop. A defensive Mon that's weak to Mega Mence is a horrible liability, to the point that it should probably drop to somewhere in B or maybe C.
A majority of defensive mons are weak to Mega Salamence. That's why people are running garbage like Porygon to stop it. At least Venusaur doesn't allow it to sub, unlike Mew.
Porygon2 actually loses to 252/252 Mega Salamence with Refresh. I don't think we should be dropping things solely because of Mega Salamence since it will be gone soon anyway.
Mega Venusaur is massive setup bait for Mega Salamence because it can't threat to kill it while it gets murdered in return. You can argue crippling it with Sleep Powder, but then you have to risk it using Substitute on you and getting a free DD anyway.
When Aegislash was around things like Jirachi and Starmie were not allowed on the list because they got shat on by it. This list is also supposed to be a reflection of the meta as it is right now, and if a bunch of Mons suck because of Mega Salamence they should be demoted (if not kicked off entirely) until it leaves.
Last edited:
Wouldn't then just nearly all Megas drop to D, because there is little to no reason not to use Mega Salamence?
I actually think this should happen to any mega that does not wall (lol) or directly threaten Mega Salamence in some capacity. It's just that good and centralizing.
I'm being dead serious by the way.
I've been running a great set I stole from Pokeaim (not sure if it is his), eath plate 252+ ATK EQ/Stone Edge/Knock off/SR with enough speed to outspeed defensive (stallbreaker) mew and have a chance at breaking it (EQ and knock off KO with rocks).
This thing is incredible as it punches huge holes in the defensive backbone of balanced teams expecting defensive/scarf and still has Knock off+ SR + Intimidate utility.
Despite what people may say Lando-T is not predictable and can run a lot of viable non gimmicky sets.
Karxrida This is a different scenario to Aegi. Aegislash was only just banned (Literally one point difference) and the community was split on it's brokeness. In the case of Mega Sal, this thing is so undeniably broken and stupidly strong that theres almost no conceivable reason for us to completely turn the viability thread to shambles only to change it again after it's inevitable ban and it should honestly be quickbanned right now, there is actually no reason to keep it, unlike every other OU ban, even quickbans, where there was at least some counters to them.
If salamence runs some HP and special defense it can actually live a porygon2 ice beam (not sure how much investment it needs).
Salamence actually wins if its already mega'd in this case because porygon2 can no longer trace intimidate.
The salamence user can then healing wish it back to full health and start the carnage all over again...
Salamence actually wins if its already mega'd in this case because porygon2 can no longer trace intimidate.
The salamence user can then healing wish it back to full health and start the carnage all over again...
I'd rather err on the side of caution, mostly because we don't really know what the OU council as a whole thinks (or at least I don't and it's entirely possible I missed something) and we're supposed to have this list be as up-to-date as possible.
Though if I were to be completley honest, I do find the thought of purging the list just because of Mega Salamence existing to be kind of amusing. But just a little.
Thanks for explaining properly what opportunity cost means. If you have a phd you should never work as a mcdonalds attendant. Unless you love it. There is no logic reason. Just like there is no reason not to use mmence.
We re so banhappy, its surprising to me that we are not willing to quickban meñce just because game isnt released. We could always unban it if we get new info or answers to it with the offcal release
Nobody is forcing you to participate. It's true that a lot of things will change after the Mega Salamence ban, but what's the problem with whoever wants to have some rankings talk before that?
That's really not good logic imo. Fact is this thread is such a significant and enormous resource that just fucking around with it for a week with a 'mon that's literally going to get banned is kind of... absolutely non-nonsensical, especially since all it's going to do is completely tear up the viability rankings leaving even more work after it's gone.
At the very least, there should be another thread like this, but assuming (lol) that Salamencite is banned.
It's not that serious tbh. I personally find it enjoyable to discuss Pokemon viability and rankings, so I really don't mind messing around with it to see what the rankings are like for a Salamence-dominated metagame. I don't consider contributing to this thread "work" at all, because I play Pokemon to have fun and I have fun discussing it at a somewhat high level too. alexwolf wouldn't be letting us make nominations and so on if he thought it was too much trouble to change stuff around.
To make this relevant to the thread, I totally agree that Lando-t should rise to S. It works great and it's uncommon to see a team without this Pokemon for its excellent utility and resistance to the stone-quake combo.
Ok here's the problem...Salamencite isn't banned yet. I understand the point you are trying to make, but even though we are pretty sure it is going to get banned we still don't know when it will. it could get quick band, or we could have it suspect it and it could be a while before it goes anywhere. so until that time we might as well get an idea of what the viability rankings look like with the current meta, whether it's going to be around for a while or not.
I honestly believe this thread should be open for discussion only for a few days each month, after the usage stats are out. There is no reason to repeatedly shift the rankings - the current M-Salamence case is a glaring testament of how inefficient this is.
Unless you haven't noticed, the only thing that has changed in the ORAS thread compared to the XY one is the ranking of the new MEvos. Other than that, we have been talking about the Pokemon in S and A+ ranks to get some first impressions of what everyone thinks and have something to talk about until ORAS come out and that's it.
Enough with that stuff anyway, let me worry about the logistics of this thread and let's get back on topic.
- Status