np: XY UU Stage 3 - Calling [Diggersby: BL, Next: Scolipede]

[Machi]

After playing him, I knew that I could play with the new Megas. Diance is alright. I use it with sand (hippo) and use a -special defense nature since the sandstorm boost makes up for that...I think people forget that sometimes! It can set up on a lot of offensive teams, but it really does lack the power (+spa nature) to plow through fat teams. Though the use of diamond storm mitigates it and makes it an excellent mixed sweeper + defensive booster.

Try using Weakness Pass Celebi + Diancie on late game, let us just say it becomes very fun. That said without boosting it isn't exactly capable of plowing through bulkier teams but it does have enough fire power to 2HKO most of them with the appropriate move which is where its strength shines IMO as I find it to be just plain disruptive as teams scramble to pick the proper switch. It is definitely more prediction based against defensive teams. Though what I do like is that she remains useful even against such teams because of Magic Bounce, and having mixed offenses to keep walls on their toes. On offensive teams, aside from obvious scarvers and surprise steel coverage, she has no issues plowing through them.

I am a bit hesitant with MDiancie on a sand team since she doesn't add any real defensive synergy to the team, and can actually compound it. A team with a good FWG core is usually enough. In UU I'm finding Rotom-H and Coballion to be great partners. Aside that she works well with Hydregion+Jirachi, filling up the Steel/Dragon/Fairy core.

We can hope OU doesn't take her but does seem like OU will be gobbling up a bunch of megas come first cycle, if the unofficial ORAS OU stats are anything to go by.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

I am not running sand specifically for Diance, I am running sand because it breaks sashes, and allows for residual damage. Hippo is a great SR setter and phaser.

Hmm, I know BP Celebi is really good, but I really hate using a dedicated BP mon. It kind of loses its utility if your sweeper is gone :S

Diance gets CM, a CM set would be pretty great to destroy stall actually...this mon reminds me of lando!

 

[silenced]

I am not running sand specifically for Diance, I am running sand because it breaks sashes, and allows for residual damage. Hippo is a great SR setter and phaser.

Hmm, I know BP Celebi is really good, but I really hate using a dedicated BP mon. It kind of loses its utility if your sweeper is gone :S

Diance gets CM, a CM set would be pretty great to destroy stall actually...this mon reminds me of lando!

That right there is why I hope OU takes Diancie from us. Outside of amoongus with clear smog, I cannot for the life of me think of anything stall can do to stop M-Diancie from boosting...well maybe blissey, but that I guess depends on whether the Diancie set is mixed or not, and possibly T-spikes being set before mega evolving. Sticking magic bounce on a fairy is just cruel.

I mean, it could still be balanced, but M-Diancie would be a real pain to face just from the boosting threat alone, unless you attack it straight away, which may not always be possible (e.g think choice-locked hydreigon, krookodile locked into knock off, etc.)

Edit: Also M-Gallade I though was dangerous already, and that replay just goes to show how deadly a wall-breaker it is. I think its suspect worthy already, but if sableye goes to OU (its mega is gaining popularity despite megamence being as deadly as it is), it pretty much leaves cresselia as one of the few mons able to avoid being 2HKO'd before it can do a damn thing back to it, + a handful of shaky checks.

 

[Meru]

Not only is the CM set on Mega Diancie completely dangerous against Stall but I just had a fun battle with ANGER MANAGEMENT that went from me almost winning to me being completely swept by Rock Polish Diancie. I'm sure I don't need to bother to say how good speed boosters are in UU, where Scarfers are omnipresent on 99% of teams and boosters like Volcarona and Salamence remain firmly tucked away in BL. STAB Moonblast is also really good in this tier, as Fairy-typing punishes a lot of common Dark-, Fighting-, and Dragon-type offensive threats and is so good that even Whimsicott's 77 SpA makes it look like it hits hard. So when you have a speed booster with a much stronger 160 SpA potentially Modest/Rash Moonblast, you're pretty much going to shit on the entire tier.

You can't even counter it with 'mons like Crobat, Jirachi, and Nidoqueen, and Chandelure which are some of the tier's best go-to offensive Fairy resists, because Diancie has the perfect "EdgeQuake" coverage to take them all out with little prior damage. So that just leaves bulky 'mons that can only be neutrally hit such as Mega Blaster, who probably succumbs to Moonblast after something pathetic like one U-turn from literally anything (would supply calcs for all of this but the calculator is down... rip)

The only other thing that needs to be taken care of is one turn of set-up, which is actually pretty important, as Diancie in its base form is completely incapable of outspeeding any offensive threats. However, if that set-up turn ends up being such a huge issue, then pretty much nobody is going to be running Scarf Hydreigon anymore. Even something like Crobat is 100% set-up bait, since it can't Taunt the Rock Polish due to Magic Bounce. He used Scarf Memento Chandelure, which lures in a lot of things that Diancie can get that Rock Polish on (Hydreigon), while also beating a lot of the things that it can't get a boost on (Jirachi) and straight up Mementoing everything else.

Altogether, this is the first threat that has jumped out to me as hella overcentralizing and borderline broken. It also has other sets that I haven't even bothered to touch upon, so it can hardly be called one-dimensional. Magic Bounce has obviously huge utility against stall but even against offensive teams it can avoid things like the previously mentioned Taunt as well as Prankster Whimsicott's Stun Spore, which bones other more conventional speed boosters like Yanmega. I firmly believe that Diancite is definitely deserving of being the first ORAS Mega Stone to leave the tier, which is fine, since it should be going OU by usage anyway.

Would've also supplied the replay for evidence but that's down too... zzz shame since it was a pretty good battle.

 

[Skankovich]

Adaptability Dragalge get yessssss, finally that amazing design has a decent niche in UU. Specs Draco does 50% to max hp jirachi, lol, and even does 40%ish to Blissey. Alternatively, uninvested neutral attack life orb outrage/gunk shot 2hko's standard blissey after rocks, but I doubt you'd want to use life orb on this thing. Its typing is flat out fantastic defensively too, and it synchronises well with a lot of current UU mons, and defensive sets now hit hard and check a lot of stuff/phase/set up stpikes. Probably won't be amazing, but its very nice.

 

[glock in my toyota]

lmao UU ALL DAY I didnt know that was you but gg tho very close,,

As for my thoughts on the top megas very briefly:

Gallade: High threat. Gallade has severe 4MSS, because it obv needs CC/Zen/SD and as for the last spot you can run Knock Off, Leaf Blade, Shadow Sneak, or Ice Punch. Depending on which of these you run, something will be bulky enough to comfortably take a hit. I run leaf blade, cuz Swampert, but if you do run Leaf Blade, Gligar beats you. If you run Ice Punch for gligar, Swampert beats you. lmao bronzong beats these both, so why not Knock Off? Cuz then Swampert beats you. Depending on what Gallade's last slot holds, it can be a vicious sweeper, but otherwise it can be dealt with without too many issues. not to mention crobat, who checks this thing to eternity, unless Bulk Up at like +4 defense @_@. Not Banworthy

Lopunny: I imagine that Lopunny will get enough usage in OU to move up, but just in case it stays I'll go over it. Extreme Threat. Lopunny's speed tier is nothing short of ridiculous, and its ability is a godsend. Scrappy lets this thing hit through those damn ghosts that would normally beat it, namely Jellicent and Sableye. High Jump Kick is absurdly powerful even without a sky-high attack stat. Fake Out is an option, but imo is a waste of a slot. Power-Up-Punch is my personal favorite set, as it can find many opportunities to set it up. It's dual stabs are already unresisted, but to add fuel to the fire, it gets the elemental punches, adding some easy coverage depending on what you need for that team, so far fire punch being the most useful cuz forre can take HJK surprisingly well. Banworthy

Metagross: oml ban pls threat level code red bail out jump off leave now. This thing is just ridiculous. its sets are self explanatory, but my favorite is Meteor Mash/Zen/EQ/Grass Knot. Grass Knot with very little investment can do extreme damage to Swampert, as Grass knot gains a boost from tough claws. i think we all kinda know why metagross is so good, but bronzong still threatens it. I honestly see bronzong jumping up in viability tbh. Banworthy

Diancie: HUGE Threat. Another thing walled by bronzong however. Diancies new ability is borderline game breaking, as you cant get burned, stun spored, taunted, or any status lmao. Its dual Mixed stabs help it hit on both sides of the spectrum, and gaining Earth Power patched up it's huge flaw in steel types. It can boost it's special attack to absurd levels with Calm Mind, and it can even run Rock Polish to outpace the entire tier like a god @_@. Or you can be a true, true lord and run double dance. but if you do run dubdance, give me credit, i said it, i mean it. I woudlnt at all be surprised to see Diancite be banned, and i feel it should be. Banworthy

 

[UU ALL DAY]

Gallade at +2 can OHK Swampert I'm pretty sure, considering it destroyed suicine at 81% or something.

I disagree with Lopunny and Diancie. I feel it will get Zapdos syndome, in that it is great in UU, not broken, but will probably move up just because of usage.

Gallade is a huge threat. I really think SD, CC, Zen Headbutt, and Shadow Sneak/Ice Punch is all you need. Gallade has the bulk and typing to take enough hits to get +2. I think it has the most potential to be the best mega in UU if it stays.

 

[Patrick1088]

Anybody try out any other megas? Beedril, Sableye and Sharpedo still seem like top threats on paper. Eager to try them in PS!

 

[dodmen]

Altaria's pretty retarded as well, though I'm not too sure if it'll stay UU especially with the possible MegaMence quickban from OU. Anyway as expected, it sets up on a ridiculous amount of Pokemon, way easier than Zygarde from my experience. In addition, unlike Zygarde, it has pretty incredible power right off the bat even with no attack investment, given its ability, excellent offensive STAB, and base power of Return. Pokemon like Raikou who depend on Hidden Power for coverage just do like 35% and are just setup fodder. Lucario's Bullet Punch does a nice ~30% to a 252 HP / 0 Def variants of Altaria. Additionally, it's quite easy to double switch/just spam Return early game to wear down its checks most of whom have limited/no reliable recovery (Nidos, Forretress, Mega Aggron, Jirachi), or you can hit them with a surprise Earthquake/Fire Blast (although from what I've tried, Heal Bell or Sub is the best set). I haven't even tried a special set although a powerful Hyper Voice seems like a great way to get rid of Zygardes behind a sub.

Offensively, Fairy typing is godly and Diancie and Altaria are extremely scary thanks to their powerful Fairy moves. It's really good defensively too, but what puts these two fairies slightly over the top is that they both can beat everything that has been used traditionally as a Fairy check. For example, Fire types like Entei and Darmanitan were common ways to get around all the fairies we had before, but now these are (set up on and) beaten by Diancie and Altaria.

Also, I've been using Bronzong as a Stealth Rock setter (shoutout to @Metric/ANGER MANAGEMENT for the suggestion) and I can already tell that it's really good in this metagame. It's a fantastic full stop to a lot of the new threats in the tier, including Mega Altaria, Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross (...to an extent since this Pokemon is stupid as well), and Mega Sceptile. Additionally it's capable of standing its ground with existing threats such as Mega Aerodactyl, Nidos, Celebi, Shaymin, Crobat, Roserade, Honchkrow, and even Mega Alakazam if it's at a decent amount of HP. The best part about this mon is that it can't get trapped by Dugtrio, who I've seen popping up more and more lately, especially as a partner to the two Mega Fairies. I'm really happy with the amount of work the bell has put in for me in the ORAS games I've played so far. I wish I could upload replays to show how effective it's been.

Also I'm pretty sure Knock Off is the best 4th slot for Gallade because of its sheer utility and ability to hit Psychic types, which it can't do too well with its other STABs.

Infernape definitely took a hit in its effectiveness, given that it's beaten by basically every new mega and arguably outclassed as a special attacker by the likes of Diancie and maybe even Sceptile and Pidgeot (both of these are much better against offense than Infernape). I guess it's still a pretty good mixed attacker but it's still frail and slow compared to Diancie.

Finally, I haven't seen a Haxorus for a long time, and for good reason. It's simply not effective as a booster in this metagame because it's outclassed by a lot of stuff now.

 

[Machi]

Altaria's pretty retarded as well, though I'm not too sure if it'll stay UU especially with the possible MegaMence quickban from OU. Anyway as expected, it sets up on a ridiculous amount of Pokemon, way easier than Zygarde from my experience. In addition, unlike Zygarde, it has pretty incredible power right off the bat even with no attack investment, given its ability, excellent offensive STAB, and base power of Return. Pokemon like Raikou who depend on Hidden Power for coverage just do like 35% and are just setup fodder. Lucario's Bullet Punch does a nice ~30% to a 252 HP / 0 Def variants of Altaria. Additionally, it's quite easy to double switch/just spam Return early game to wear down its checks most of whom have limited/no reliable recovery (Nidos, Forretress, Mega Aggron, Jirachi), or you can hit them with a surprise Earthquake/Fire Blast (although from what I've tried, Heal Bell or Sub is the best set). I haven't even tried a special set although a powerful Hyper Voice seems like a great way to get rid of Zygardes behind a sub.

I agree a lot of about using Altaria to just smack things outright with return rather than trying to DD up for most part against offensive teams since they usually have a good answer in the wings to take a hit and retaliate so you're easily forced out at +1. However, I notice it is more effective to do as you say of just spaming return early game to wear down the checks, or predict correctly with the coverage move. As they really won't have much answers, and clerics won't want to switch in due to the threat of DD deterring them.

Otherwise on more defensive teams I find DD to be much easier to pull off.

 

[Schpoonman]

Trying mixed Megagross, and I don't know if I want to drop Bullet Punch for Earthquake. So far, I'm just content to let teammates handle Steel-types, because that priority is really powerful.

EDIT: Just lost to a Moxiekrow because I didn't have Bullet Punch. How do? I'm considering dropping Zen Headbutt.

EDIT 2: Actually, dropped Meteor Mash to not stack type-coverage.

 

[Machi]

Trying mixed Megagross, and I don't know if I want to drop Bullet Punch for Earthquake. So far, I'm just content to let teammates handle Steel-types, because that priority is really powerful.

EDIT: Just lost to a Moxiekrow because I didn't have Bullet Punch. How do? I'm considering dropping Zen Headbutt.

EDIT 2: Actually, dropped Meteor Mash to not stack type-coverage.

I'd definitely keep Bullet Punch, helps especially against MDiancie or MAero. Meteor mash... as strong as it is I find MMeta relying more on his other moves often, as steel is too easily walled.

 

[Schpoonman]

Yeah, I'm rocking Bullet Punch right now and it's really useful. Zen Headbutt already hits hilarious hard. I'm still not seeing how Mega Metagross is broken. Yes, he hits hard, but he suffers too heavily from 4MSS to not rely extremely heavily on team support. Sure, I guess if you SmashPassed to him he'd be a problem, but he sacrifices either power or coverage to the point that he just doesn't feel overpowered.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Yeah, I'm rocking Bullet Punch right now and it's really useful. Zen Headbutt already hits hilarious hard. I'm still not seeing how Mega Metagross is broken. Yes, he hits hard, but he suffers too heavily from 4MSS to not rely extremely heavily on team support. Sure, I guess if you SmashPassed to him he'd be a problem, but he sacrifices either power or coverage to the point that he just doesn't feel overpowered.

I mean, if you smash pass to just about any offensive mon its a problem so that argument is kinda eh

 

[Schpoonman]

That's what I'm trying to say, that Metagross just doesn't have the tools to dominate the tier.

 

[Machi]

That's what I'm trying to say, that Metagross just doesn't have the tools to dominate the tier.

Well good thing they mentioned it'd be around 3 weeks before any real suspect bans come into the picture since I do feel torn regarding whether to call anything too broken at this point as most of the megas are just very damned good. One thing that also has to be seen is that of choice locked mons become very easy set up fodder for some of the new megas. So suddenly you can't just rely on your choiced hydregion to fix everything when he becomes a huge liability against MAlt, MDiancie, MGallade, and MMetagross etc.

On another note I am loving Dragalge it is like what Goodra wanted to be only cooler looking, and a much more fun typing. I'm using assault vest and it tanks special hits damned well and retaliates freaking hard. Icy wind is also a fun move to screw over some switch ins. Aside that it has so many fun options such as scald, toxic spikes, or dragon tail. Best of all with Gunk shot you have a more reliable way of nailing fairies hard even after a Draco meteor.

 

[Sleepless]

Well, I think it`s already more relevant to this thread rather than the ORAS UU discussion and a new NP thread should be up soon but I want to point your attention into the updated level up moveset some pokemon received, some imo UU highlights are :

Dual Chop

Dual Chop (if it stays UU)

Knock Off

Leaf Blade, Hurricane

( http://serebii.net/omegarubyalphasapphire/movesetchange.shtml )

 

[Patrick1088]

Well, I think it`s already more relevant to this thread rather than the ORAS UU discussion and a new NP thread should be up soon but I want to point your attention into the updated level up moveset some pokemon received, some imo UU highlights are :

Dual Chop

Dual Chop (if it stays UU)

Knock Off

Leaf Blade, Hurricane

( http://serebii.net/omegarubyalphasapphire/movesetchange.shtml )

Hurricane seems pretty cool on Shiftry. Grass/Dark/Flying coverage hits most of UU at least neutrally.

 

[noknuckles]

What are the chances of Altaria in OU? At first I thought it was gonna be an awesome defensive mon in OU. I still think it's gonna be great with that defensive typing. However I began playing and saw some issues with it. As a wall I see it as being OK with big issues (it would like to absorb knock offs, but hates Bisharp and Weavile). Can the offensive mini-mence set carry it into OU? If not, would it basically be UU's salamence?

In UU, would the DD/Roost/Sub/Normal move set be as good as Salamence's set is in OU? It has mediocre speed, great bulk/typing (allowing it to set up a sub the same way Salamence does), great typing for a mono-attacker. The most dangerous Ice Sharders are locked away in OU/BL, so it's actually pretty good against prevalent priority in the tier (resisting sucker, mach punch, aqua jet)

It's hard to tell how broken it's gonna be. It basically does what Salamence did in OU, but there may be some somewhat reliable checks (Infiltrator Crobat that is also invaluable against the nearly-but-not-quite-broken Zygarde). I see it as kind of a mini-mence, where it has a dominant DD set, as well as the options to go special/mixed to screw over stuff that thinks it's safe.

I really want this to be balanced, wherever it ends up. It's potentially broken, so it'll be interesting to see what sort of answers the player-base comes up with

 

[UU ALL DAY]

For Mega-Lopunny, what do you guys consider to be the best set? And what spread is most optimal?

 

[boltsandbombers]

For Mega-Lopunny, what do you guys consider to be the best set? And what spread is most optimal?

Probably just 252 / 252 atk and spe, nothing super complicated.
I'd go with Fake Out / HJK / Return / Ice Punch or Healing Wish

 

[Calloflochie]

The end of an era :] Thank you to everyone who has participated in this discussion throughout XY UU but now it is time for;

Changes