Mega altaria is kinda like a cross between mega charizard x and clefable. It provides a counter to charizard y without resorting to chansey, but unlike charizard x counters it loses to steel types such as scizor and ferrothorn, as well as clefable. However, altaria is able to beat most dragons and fighting types. This makes heatran a good partner, beating scizor, ferrothorn and clefable for altaria, while altaria beats the fighting types and checks some ground types for heatran.
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Other Stall
- Thread starter ShootingStarmie
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TBH I've been having a bit of trouble with teams that run full-on flying spam such as Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and then 4 Pokemon designed solely to keep rocks off the field and weaken your flying resists so one or the other can sweep. Is there a good defensive strategy against this aside from dedicating two full slots to physical flying resist?
Hopefully you at least have 2 of: skarmory, tyranitar, hippowdon, slowbro, doublade, rhyperior, zapdos, aggron, steelix, ferrothorn - shed shell where appropriate
Second, even though you're playing stall, you have to play ballsy and guess-work some times. e.g. switching skarm into hopefully banded talonflame brave bird, staying in against mence and refusing to allow it to set up (even though your pokemon will die), and just plain being unpredictable.
Sample team: salamence, magnezone, talonflame, latias, landorus-t, rotom-w
Clearly the game plan is wearing down latias before it's too late (so you can keep up the rocks) - then you have to get a double switch into it and either kill it with a priority move, or prankster taunt, etc. But if you're too predictable, latias will happily get in on your chestnaught and get a free roost/defog while you switch to your fairy or whatever. You'll absolutely have to wear it down into kill range and pull off a double switch or predict it coming in and kill it with a neutral move. Just like any other play style.
Try to have ONE threat of your own that is capable of boosting up - bulk up, calm mind, curse, dragon dance, whatever - to make sure the opponent has their own threats to worry about.
In general I would highly recommend 5 stall + 1 bulky booster
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Win conditions like M-Sableye, CM Clefable and SD M-Scizor are good options to have in stall, but they often won't help you against birdspam. Important is to get your rocks up, and keep them up.
Doublade is a good member against birdspam outside Talonflame. Zapdos and Rotom-W work well too. Hippowdon with Stone Edge forms a great check to Pinsir + Magnezone.
Ofcourse the other members outside Birdspam and Pinsir+Magnezone are made to handle these threats, but when you can keep your hazards up, you can wear them down
Doublade is a good member against birdspam outside Talonflame. Zapdos and Rotom-W work well too. Hippowdon with Stone Edge forms a great check to Pinsir + Magnezone.
Ofcourse the other members outside Birdspam and Pinsir+Magnezone are made to handle these threats, but when you can keep your hazards up, you can wear them down
Most of the good bird spam I've seen runs LO Excadrill alongside something like EQ Tyranitar (just making this up) to break through stuff like Rotom-W and Zapdos, and then a Latios to spam Psyshock/Draco Meteor and force switches into things that Excadrill wrecks.
Maybe Mega-Slowbro will help when ORAS comes out but right now it seems like the metagame is not very conducive to stall…to win you basically have to (a) straight up be a better player than your opponent and (b) get a little lucky.
Maybe Mega-Slowbro will help when ORAS comes out but right now it seems like the metagame is not very conducive to stall…to win you basically have to (a) straight up be a better player than your opponent and (b) get a little lucky.
I've used MegaBro to decent success with a team that I lazily threw together, so I can definitely attest to its capabilities. I'll say this--while I used it on a BO team, one of the single most important things in using it is knowing when to Mega Evolve. Regenerator is THAT good that it carries a significant opportunity cost when you mega evolve. That alone makes me want to consider MegaBro as essentially two different Pokemon. Both are physical walls, but they each play very differently. Base Form Slowbro is really good at maintaining momentum because of the passive healing you get from Regenerator; MegaBro is an even better wall with offensive prowess, but you have to be more mindful about your HP level because if you're running CroBro (which I think is the best for stall because it requires less support and isn't worn down as easily), you need to make sure you can survive until the next Rest. So basically, you have Slowbro at Base Form and Suicune-on-Steroids as MegaBro.
That said, MegaBro provides stall and semistall an offensive outlet because 130 SpA with the ability to boost is absolutely no slouch. Combine that with a severe lack of Water-immune pokes in OU and you've got a very potent threat.
EDIT:
That said, MegaBro provides stall and semistall an offensive outlet because 130 SpA with the ability to boost is absolutely no slouch. Combine that with a severe lack of Water-immune pokes in OU and you've got a very potent threat.
EDIT:
As much as I hate saying this, that's kind of been stall since the Aegi ban.
Uhm... To be honest, I've been coasting whenever I play stall right now. I'm sure I can't be the only one... Then again, I'm only playing in ORAS tours in the OU room. I still believe stall to be matchup-reliant, but right now I seem to be getting hugely favorable matchup with a minorly tweaked team that I showed on the previous page.
I'd argue that stall is as easy as it's been to play since the beginning of XY.
As for slowbro, he can stay base for as long as the opponent has two U-turn mons. If they have less, it's probably better to mega evolve because Bro as a base form is better at pivoting whereas the mega is almost an insurmountable wall.
I'd argue that stall is as easy as it's been to play since the beginning of XY.
As for slowbro, he can stay base for as long as the opponent has two U-turn mons. If they have less, it's probably better to mega evolve because Bro as a base form is better at pivoting whereas the mega is almost an insurmountable wall.
The fact that base-slowbro is still really good (and takes less knock off damage) is what motivated me to try making a team with 2 megas in it, because it seemed interesting and fun (despite obvious drawbacks) but that's a post for another thread and at this point I definitely can't say if it's worth it or not.
Here's a replay: Max attack salamences rock my socks! If they only have around 100 atk EVs then sylveon has a good chance of surviving, and will certainly be fine if you switch in on roost or sub, and so I switched mine in expecting a bulky variant (based on substitutes and roosts earlier) but instead lost my cleric immediately. Thankfully though, rotom and porygon eventually pull through (despite the crazy boosts)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-183739521
edit: apparantly this team isn't half bad, got to 1607 with it so i guess it's competent enough
mega slowbro, sylveon, tentacruel, rotom-h, celebi, porygon2
Here's a replay: Max attack salamences rock my socks! If they only have around 100 atk EVs then sylveon has a good chance of surviving, and will certainly be fine if you switch in on roost or sub, and so I switched mine in expecting a bulky variant (based on substitutes and roosts earlier) but instead lost my cleric immediately. Thankfully though, rotom and porygon eventually pull through (despite the crazy boosts)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-183739521
edit: apparantly this team isn't half bad, got to 1607 with it so i guess it's competent enough
mega slowbro, sylveon, tentacruel, rotom-h, celebi, porygon2
double edit: I've since gotten higher on the ladder with the above stall team. Stall is not bad at all people!
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So I've adjusted the team I was talking about earlier. Essentially, I made three major changes (which is half the team but w/e...). Went to standard Chansey over Sylveon. To cover the emergence of Sableye issues, I actually did literal nothing. Tentacruel is the only one to deal with it. However, I knew that Sable+Clef cores were going to kill me, so I replaced doublade with heatran. As chansey, Gliscor and heatran basically take everything on the special side I'd ever bother with, I'm literally just using Tentacruel for Sableye if it exists and then letting it take whatever else I find if Sable isn't there. Slowbro already takes Medicham-Mega, so I figured I could cover clefable with something that also took Gard often enough. And if not heatran, Chansey is there. Lastly, I needed a hera cover, so I just went and replaced Rhyperior with Gliscor, running three attacks. It's spdef, covering landorus for me now.
I haven't lost yet through 15 games... The team is nuts good. I think MLati can probably still get me if it's the last poke, and TG manaphy is an absolute bitch in rain (I muscled past one by using Chansey, stalling rain, getting it to have to rest on the last turn of rain, and seeding it with chesnaught... Such an overbearing process). In essence, if I stall 16 scalds, I'm fine. 50% in rain, bar burns.
I'm sure there's some team out there that can rail this team. Probably involves Gothitelle. But let's be honest. But yeah, I can basically use two physical walls and gliscor to solve the entire physical meta... Bar mence/Pinsir? Mixed mons... Haven't seen much of them, but I keep figuring GK Meta has this team's number. I think it loses Ice punch to run that, so gliscor can kinda fill in. However, the surprise factor might be enough. Knock Off Thundurus seems like a threat if it runs HP ice. Ches can even take a hit for under 50% (HP Ice), but can't 2hko. If HP Flying, defer to Gliscor again.
One of the cool things about this team is that because I have four specially devoted mons, you have a ton of wiggle room on how to take multiple threats on that side. If you have all of Greninja, Sableye and Clefable, I have specialized counters to each one... Nice because Tentacruel slides to devote vs Sable allowing Chansey to cover greninja. Heatran takes Clefable, and you're golden. Thundurus, Landorus, Clefable? Probably one of the more deadly combos but you go Chansey/Heatran, Gliscor, Heatran/Tenta respectively. This is only possible because of the insane bulk and killing potential of Bro and Chesnaught respectively. One of the threats I do worry about is DD roost zard because I would initially send out slowbro when the correct option is heatran. I can waste a lot of time before realizing it has roost. However, I can't really move off of Ice beam yet due to Mence (I'd like to go Toxic or Twave).
Advice?
I haven't lost yet through 15 games... The team is nuts good. I think MLati can probably still get me if it's the last poke, and TG manaphy is an absolute bitch in rain (I muscled past one by using Chansey, stalling rain, getting it to have to rest on the last turn of rain, and seeding it with chesnaught... Such an overbearing process). In essence, if I stall 16 scalds, I'm fine. 50% in rain, bar burns.
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Slack Off
- Scald
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Wood Hammer
- Drain Punch
- Leech Seed
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 176 SpD / 88 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics
- Roost
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Calm Nature
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Acid Spray
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Roar
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Slack Off
- Scald
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Wood Hammer
- Drain Punch
- Leech Seed
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 176 SpD / 88 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics
- Roost
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Calm Nature
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Acid Spray
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Roar
I'm sure there's some team out there that can rail this team. Probably involves Gothitelle. But let's be honest. But yeah, I can basically use two physical walls and gliscor to solve the entire physical meta... Bar mence/Pinsir? Mixed mons... Haven't seen much of them, but I keep figuring GK Meta has this team's number. I think it loses Ice punch to run that, so gliscor can kinda fill in. However, the surprise factor might be enough. Knock Off Thundurus seems like a threat if it runs HP ice. Ches can even take a hit for under 50% (HP Ice), but can't 2hko. If HP Flying, defer to Gliscor again.
One of the cool things about this team is that because I have four specially devoted mons, you have a ton of wiggle room on how to take multiple threats on that side. If you have all of Greninja, Sableye and Clefable, I have specialized counters to each one... Nice because Tentacruel slides to devote vs Sable allowing Chansey to cover greninja. Heatran takes Clefable, and you're golden. Thundurus, Landorus, Clefable? Probably one of the more deadly combos but you go Chansey/Heatran, Gliscor, Heatran/Tenta respectively. This is only possible because of the insane bulk and killing potential of Bro and Chesnaught respectively. One of the threats I do worry about is DD roost zard because I would initially send out slowbro when the correct option is heatran. I can waste a lot of time before realizing it has roost. However, I can't really move off of Ice beam yet due to Mence (I'd like to go Toxic or Twave).
Advice?
I assume you're talking GeoPass. Honestly, if chesnaught can force Smeargle out after only one GeoMancy (which, I don't think they go two anyways), Chansey should be able to fend it off. If I really have to bother with that strategy at all, I'll bother with it by cussing my opponent out before I actually make amends to this team.
I mean, I'm not sacrificing the security of the team otherwise to go add eject button skarm just to beat that team. And you get to call them all sorts of nasty things for legitimate reasons so you're winning in a special sort of way :)
I mean, I'm not sacrificing the security of the team otherwise to go add eject button skarm just to beat that team. And you get to call them all sorts of nasty things for legitimate reasons so you're winning in a special sort of way :)
15 in a row is a great run, keep it up.
Off the top of my head I do see a few threats that will make for some pretty tough or maybe just simply annoying games:
Beedrill (with drill run..) voltturn team often paired with rotom and lando - main issue everything in the core threatens heatran as a stealth rocker from ever laying it, so maybe you just take the hit from rotom at some point to get it up but you can only do that once, if they have defog it's really tough
knock off superpower thundurus is definitely a problem but you laid out a good way to handle it
pinsir is indeed stronger than salamence by a crucial amount
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def SlowbroMega: 295-348 (74.8 - 88.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
that's requires a really goddamn healthy slowbro -- furthermore ice beam doesn't always 1hko back after 25% premega rocks
They're definitely out there on the ladder
Endeavor sash lead mamoswine breaking holes in the first turns god dammit
Spikes + spinblocker sabeleye (5/6 team is grounded)
It really really sucks to go up against this - granted acid sprays and scald tentacruel actually does beat sabeleye, and you have a heatran, but we all know how tenta tends to get burned and worn down taking on opposing scalds, willowisps, and such. and heatran with only 1 stab move has certain issues. In my opinion without a fairy STAB there's an issue here. Unless I'm overanalyzing and you've handled it with slowbro/tenta/heatran fine.
lefties/rockyhelmet ferro very very stubbornly keeps rocks/spikes up and is likely slowly wearing down your switch ins for something awfully dangerous (and meanwhile your own chestnaughts spikes are likely to be less effective against an offense team's 3 or 4 fly/levitate pokemons)
burned +1 facade salamence
and finally there's good ol' late game belly drum azumarill after his teammates have worn chestnaught down and you can't get a lava/scald burn off either
I'm sure some of these things are obvious and you've thought of many of them but it felt good to just write down the most bothersome things I'd ran into in the last week or so of laddering. The stall team I run is awfully similar in principal and even has 2 same pokemon, these are things that have messed with me the most. I started trying to get more paralysis on my team, finding it to help out an AWFUL lot. I use toxic less and less because it is too slow, 2 types are immune to it, and it has no added effects like burn/para. So, yes of course there's discharge porygon2 but practically everything learns thunder wave. There's also interesting options like jirachi and altaria as well, not to mention the various other discharge users like rotoms and zapdos.
Not that I recommend immediately forcing paralyze into your team, just an overall observation on a status effect that I think has had improved use considering how stall has definitely gained plenty of firepower, but far too often lacks the ability to get the attack off. If you put 12 evs in speed then slowbro will outspeed paralyzed positive natured base 130s for example, and with weapons like him, along with sylveon, heatran, scizor, rhyperior, and tyranitar having both exceptional bulk as well as an attacking stat, trying to get some speed control into stall (without going so far as actual trick room team...not my thing...) has been having nice results for me. 45-21
Furthermore there is the parahax chances, which is honestlly awfully close to the chance for scald/lavaplume hax chance - they are all three known to completley turn games around.
I'm sorry that I don't really have advice for your stall team, it seems to be equal to your previous one in that it has reached a sort of "pinnacle" and all you can do is jot down the things that are going to have a match up advantage and hope that their useage is being a bit suppressed by the offense players. (e.g. pinsir and gothitelle)
Off the top of my head I do see a few threats that will make for some pretty tough or maybe just simply annoying games:
Beedrill (with drill run..) voltturn team often paired with rotom and lando - main issue everything in the core threatens heatran as a stealth rocker from ever laying it, so maybe you just take the hit from rotom at some point to get it up but you can only do that once, if they have defog it's really tough
knock off superpower thundurus is definitely a problem but you laid out a good way to handle it
pinsir is indeed stronger than salamence by a crucial amount
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def SlowbroMega: 295-348 (74.8 - 88.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
that's requires a really goddamn healthy slowbro -- furthermore ice beam doesn't always 1hko back after 25% premega rocks
They're definitely out there on the ladder
Endeavor sash lead mamoswine breaking holes in the first turns god dammit
Spikes + spinblocker sabeleye (5/6 team is grounded)
It really really sucks to go up against this - granted acid sprays and scald tentacruel actually does beat sabeleye, and you have a heatran, but we all know how tenta tends to get burned and worn down taking on opposing scalds, willowisps, and such. and heatran with only 1 stab move has certain issues. In my opinion without a fairy STAB there's an issue here. Unless I'm overanalyzing and you've handled it with slowbro/tenta/heatran fine.
lefties/rockyhelmet ferro very very stubbornly keeps rocks/spikes up and is likely slowly wearing down your switch ins for something awfully dangerous (and meanwhile your own chestnaughts spikes are likely to be less effective against an offense team's 3 or 4 fly/levitate pokemons)
burned +1 facade salamence
and finally there's good ol' late game belly drum azumarill after his teammates have worn chestnaught down and you can't get a lava/scald burn off either
I'm sure some of these things are obvious and you've thought of many of them but it felt good to just write down the most bothersome things I'd ran into in the last week or so of laddering. The stall team I run is awfully similar in principal and even has 2 same pokemon, these are things that have messed with me the most. I started trying to get more paralysis on my team, finding it to help out an AWFUL lot. I use toxic less and less because it is too slow, 2 types are immune to it, and it has no added effects like burn/para. So, yes of course there's discharge porygon2 but practically everything learns thunder wave. There's also interesting options like jirachi and altaria as well, not to mention the various other discharge users like rotoms and zapdos.
Not that I recommend immediately forcing paralyze into your team, just an overall observation on a status effect that I think has had improved use considering how stall has definitely gained plenty of firepower, but far too often lacks the ability to get the attack off. If you put 12 evs in speed then slowbro will outspeed paralyzed positive natured base 130s for example, and with weapons like him, along with sylveon, heatran, scizor, rhyperior, and tyranitar having both exceptional bulk as well as an attacking stat, trying to get some speed control into stall (without going so far as actual trick room team...not my thing...) has been having nice results for me. 45-21
Furthermore there is the parahax chances, which is honestlly awfully close to the chance for scald/lavaplume hax chance - they are all three known to completley turn games around.
I'm sorry that I don't really have advice for your stall team, it seems to be equal to your previous one in that it has reached a sort of "pinnacle" and all you can do is jot down the things that are going to have a match up advantage and hope that their useage is being a bit suppressed by the offense players. (e.g. pinsir and gothitelle)
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Well, first off: You need to recheck Gliscor's typing. He has resists to both Beedrill stabs and hits SE with Acrobatics. He's my primary stop the Beedrill. Sash lead mamo isn't too bad because you don't mega evolve slowbro immediately (you still get that regen boost at the very min in case you don't get burn). Or you could always try ice beam first, which isn't a bad habit on Mamo leads.
Sableye is not my favorite to deal with. However, my spinner beats Sableye, so he can always get that spin off provided he's fast enough to spin later.
As for Chesnaught's spikes, they aren't always needed. I throw one or two layers down to screw with Greninja or something, and it generally makes my opponent send in the defogger to get rid of them. That being Latias, I get my rocks set. If it's RT starmie, well tenta does nicely to either A.) Clear hazards or B.) Get some knock off/burn tries. I certainly don't rely on Chesnaught's spikes. Ferrothorn is kinda a liability vs me: Gliscor, Chesnaught and Heatran all do different sort of work while Ferro decides to come in and even tenta isn't bothered enough by the typing to not go spinning (leech seed hurts ferro in that case).
I don't really have a second stop to Azumarill, however Tentacruel should be fast enough to outspeed. Acid Spray + Slowbro's Scald wouldn't be awful (although slowbro might do more straight up with psyshock, leading to me just spamming scald). However, it's really too situational and with too few solutions for me to truly bother with it.
Yeah, that is one thing I like less about this team: Gothitelle. I can still kill it (I always seem to manage) but I no longer have doublade to fuck with Goth so easily. ghosts are so nice to avoid that BS and now I can't even manage that.
Sableye is not my favorite to deal with. However, my spinner beats Sableye, so he can always get that spin off provided he's fast enough to spin later.
As for Chesnaught's spikes, they aren't always needed. I throw one or two layers down to screw with Greninja or something, and it generally makes my opponent send in the defogger to get rid of them. That being Latias, I get my rocks set. If it's RT starmie, well tenta does nicely to either A.) Clear hazards or B.) Get some knock off/burn tries. I certainly don't rely on Chesnaught's spikes. Ferrothorn is kinda a liability vs me: Gliscor, Chesnaught and Heatran all do different sort of work while Ferro decides to come in and even tenta isn't bothered enough by the typing to not go spinning (leech seed hurts ferro in that case).
I don't really have a second stop to Azumarill, however Tentacruel should be fast enough to outspeed. Acid Spray + Slowbro's Scald wouldn't be awful (although slowbro might do more straight up with psyshock, leading to me just spamming scald). However, it's really too situational and with too few solutions for me to truly bother with it.
Yeah, that is one thing I like less about this team: Gothitelle. I can still kill it (I always seem to manage) but I no longer have doublade to fuck with Goth so easily. ghosts are so nice to avoid that BS and now I can't even manage that.
Alright, so I now have completed a Mega Altaria team (was a colab with Orda, I kinda let him do most of the leg work) and a Mega Bro team. Tried for the trifecta with Mega Sable, but I think my style just conflicts with Sableye and the core needed. Sable is a hazard stall team for sure... Really, it's the first mega that really brings back the gen5 hazard stalls. However, it lacks a lot of crucial bulk. I'm just going to let others build/use it... I really don't like it.
However, I'm still open for discussion. So what's the best stall mega we've got this gen and cores to go along with it? After today's session, I could easily make a case for Mega Altaria, but I still think Mega Bro is the best mega stall has simply due to how good it is physically. It simply is more anti-offense on the physical side than any mon available. While Altaria offers you a way to beat stall, Bro has easier cores, more self-sufficient bulk and eases what the rest of the team must focus on by his sheer flytrapping of the physical meta. I've had success with Bro+1 defensive mon, focusing the rest into Special side walling. Makes team building REALLY easy.
Personally, bro has the best two-man core (as the rest require three) in Chansey+Bro just destroying so much. The rest of the four mons basically patch up the few things that get by the newest addition of SkarmBliss (That being mainly Landorus, Gardevoir-M, Heracross-M, bisharp, and ttar at first glance). I know jpw234 and Mob Barley both have Altaria stall teams that run excellent cores (Jpw says MAlt's core is MAlt/Gourgeist/Bulky water), so I'd like to hear other opinions. I know we also have some sable builders out there (Jukain did you finish that team?).
How do our three new megas stack up vs the old megas we had access to? In the course of XY, I had the pleasure of using Blast(x2), Venu(x3), ZardX(x2) and Y, Aggron(x2), Aerodactyl, Sczior (x2, one being Monte Cristo's Maad Metagame) and Gyarados. So far, I think that the only old mega I'd still consider using is ZardX... I just think the current megas are so dominant that the old ones can't compare with their roles in stall.
Lastly, we do have a few other megas that have... some... potential. Mega Metagross and Mega Audino do look good on paper. Steelix is largely forgotten, but I'm sure someone could work a sand stall variant that does something decent (would take on zone traps as a launch point... Also shouldn't have too much issue with pinsir, considering similar bulk aggron didn't). The last one is Mega Latias, who no one seems to want to throw a true stall together for... Definitely has potential in Semi-stall as a sweeper, but there is an enormous amount of bulk. I just think that Latias' issue of kinda having a subpar typing bites.
So tl;dr:
Which of the big tree stall megas are the best (MAlt, MSable, MBro)?
Which megas from XY can still compete on stall?
Do we have other megas in ORAS with untapped potential?
I guess we could bonus in some core talk, but we should always be open to that.
However, I'm still open for discussion. So what's the best stall mega we've got this gen and cores to go along with it? After today's session, I could easily make a case for Mega Altaria, but I still think Mega Bro is the best mega stall has simply due to how good it is physically. It simply is more anti-offense on the physical side than any mon available. While Altaria offers you a way to beat stall, Bro has easier cores, more self-sufficient bulk and eases what the rest of the team must focus on by his sheer flytrapping of the physical meta. I've had success with Bro+1 defensive mon, focusing the rest into Special side walling. Makes team building REALLY easy.
Personally, bro has the best two-man core (as the rest require three) in Chansey+Bro just destroying so much. The rest of the four mons basically patch up the few things that get by the newest addition of SkarmBliss (That being mainly Landorus, Gardevoir-M, Heracross-M, bisharp, and ttar at first glance). I know jpw234 and Mob Barley both have Altaria stall teams that run excellent cores (Jpw says MAlt's core is MAlt/Gourgeist/Bulky water), so I'd like to hear other opinions. I know we also have some sable builders out there (Jukain did you finish that team?).
How do our three new megas stack up vs the old megas we had access to? In the course of XY, I had the pleasure of using Blast(x2), Venu(x3), ZardX(x2) and Y, Aggron(x2), Aerodactyl, Sczior (x2, one being Monte Cristo's Maad Metagame) and Gyarados. So far, I think that the only old mega I'd still consider using is ZardX... I just think the current megas are so dominant that the old ones can't compare with their roles in stall.
Lastly, we do have a few other megas that have... some... potential. Mega Metagross and Mega Audino do look good on paper. Steelix is largely forgotten, but I'm sure someone could work a sand stall variant that does something decent (would take on zone traps as a launch point... Also shouldn't have too much issue with pinsir, considering similar bulk aggron didn't). The last one is Mega Latias, who no one seems to want to throw a true stall together for... Definitely has potential in Semi-stall as a sweeper, but there is an enormous amount of bulk. I just think that Latias' issue of kinda having a subpar typing bites.
So tl;dr:
Which of the big tree stall megas are the best (MAlt, MSable, MBro)?
Which megas from XY can still compete on stall?
Do we have other megas in ORAS with untapped potential?
I guess we could bonus in some core talk, but we should always be open to that.
Can you give me an indication on the M-Altaria set you use?
Not only her stats seemed underwhelming, she almost always does poorly.
She may resist dark but the most common stab dark typing bar ttar have a super effective stab on her (bisharp and weavile).
Other than that her typing is incredible resisting water, electric, fire, grass, dark, fighting and immune to dragon.
I don't know if she's better as a mixed wall or as physical/special dedicated wall.
Not only her stats seemed underwhelming, she almost always does poorly.
She may resist dark but the most common stab dark typing bar ttar have a super effective stab on her (bisharp and weavile).
Other than that her typing is incredible resisting water, electric, fire, grass, dark, fighting and immune to dragon.
I don't know if she's better as a mixed wall or as physical/special dedicated wall.
We're running a special Malt with hyper voice, heal bell, roost, flamethrower. Takes care of those steels (and ice) on the switchins. However, we made the decision to run a spdef spread (might fine tune it later). The resists you talk about are all more prevelant specially besides fighting and dark, which still shows up in sceptile/sableye and some other stuff.
In my mind, one of her main selling points is resisting the 2 strongest dragon dancers' STABs namely CharX and Megados.
Char X
+1 152+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 183-216 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 157-186 (43.7 - 51.8%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO
Meaning her only option is to try to roost stall but he can also do it.
Megados
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 244-288 (69.1 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 187-221 (52.9 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 112-132 (31.7 - 37.3%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 218-258 (65.8 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Depends on set, sub set most likely loses if he has already used sub or can hope for the flinch chance.
Other sets can win if not damaged.
I guess she still does OK against them as a last ditch effort to stop them (granted you dealt some prior damage).
Don't forget that most M-Gyara now run just Waterfall + Crunch, Altaria resists both moves so it doesn't have to worry much about Gyarados running that coverage.
I didn't forget, the new set is DD/waterfall/crunch/substitute or coverage move or taunt. I didn't post the calc for crunch because it's the exact same damage.
Since its STAB moves are low powered (80) it still has incentive to run coverage if only for super effective damage. 120 power moves accounting for stab and no damage increasing ability is kinda weak in this meta. Just look at the Char X and Megados calcs, fully invested flare blitz hits almost twice as hard as waterfall/crunch on neutral targets.
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 217-256 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 381-448 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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I've been using mega Sableye stall and peaked number 2 on the ladder and its bulk isn't that bad. Trouble is matches often come down to a lot of luck, will that wisp hit? Will I get crit on? Is he going to SR or attack? Also the ability to basically have a free switch into Ferro, chestnaught, chansey, gliscor, MegaMedicham and Gallade and mew is amazing. Not having to worry about taunt or spike stacking, which was one of stalls bigger problems is so good. Also you win most stall vs stall matches. A good sabeleye can beat most acid spray tentacruels.
Also people overestimate fire types switch in abilities to sable, often they get nailed with SR, then either hit by a knock off, shadow ball, or dark pulse and lose most of there health. Fairies really only safe switch in.
MegaBros bulk is quite good tho, but leaves you vulnerable to spikes or taunt. also noncrobro sets hate status.
Altaria has very key resists to certain pokes, but those pokes are kind of uncommon atm so I recommend bro or eye.
MegaVenu just not cutting imo, Celebi has basically replaced it as a bulky grass.
ZardX stall basically dead
Don't believe mega audino is worth it either.
So yeah those 3 megas way to go
Also people overestimate fire types switch in abilities to sable, often they get nailed with SR, then either hit by a knock off, shadow ball, or dark pulse and lose most of there health. Fairies really only safe switch in.
MegaBros bulk is quite good tho, but leaves you vulnerable to spikes or taunt. also noncrobro sets hate status.
Altaria has very key resists to certain pokes, but those pokes are kind of uncommon atm so I recommend bro or eye.
MegaVenu just not cutting imo, Celebi has basically replaced it as a bulky grass.
ZardX stall basically dead
Don't believe mega audino is worth it either.
So yeah those 3 megas way to go
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Lil YoshiXD What M-Sableye set did you use? I have been using the standard CM set and it worked awesome but also saw good games with a Calm M-Sableye. I agree with M-Sableye (and M-Slowbro, but seen less often) is the face of stall at the moment and stall really got a huge boost with M-Sableye.
Also, what stall pokemon are good at countering M-Lopunny and M-Diancie? As it seems both gives stall a lot of trouble
Also, what stall pokemon are good at countering M-Lopunny and M-Diancie? As it seems both gives stall a lot of trouble
I've been using standard set with dark pulse
Basically any bulky mon that resist hjk beat lopunny pretty well: Celebi, cresselia, zapdos, etc....
I've just been using chansey for diancie
Mega-sabeleye's bulk truly does fall short on some important things. For example he can't switch in to life orb excadrill to block a spin. I have to agree that slowbro is the best stall addition. Unlike something like skarmory or hippowdon, he's a physical wall that can ohko the likes of talonflame, landorus-t, gliscor, and so on. But I also think that megascizor deserves serious reconsideration on any stall team. Especially since magnezone isn't ubiqutious anymore. No, not the defog set. There are much better choices for spin/defog. A bulky swords dance set with bullet punch/[attack]/sd/roost. There are an awful lot of neutral hits that he can eat up and the combination of bulk, priority, self sustain, and a utility coverage move makes him a real classic pokemon that some teams aren't all that prepared for besides a lone rotom-w or a lone heatran. It seems pretty obvious to pair it up with a heatran yourself, to discourage willowisps and fire moves.
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