Pokémon Pidgeot

[Darkrafa]

His movepool is better but beats considerably weaker than M. Pidgeot. And moves that give more damage than Hurricane not have good accuracy.
TT definitely has its differential in the regenerator ability.

 

[Karxrida]

CTRL + F Tornadus-Therian

One of Pidgeot's biggest cons is mounting competition from Torn-T, who hits the same speed tier, but hits harder, has access to Regenerator, and has better coverage. That should be mentioned as a con.

Tornadus-T may be stronger as long as it holds a Life Orb, but it relies heavily on Focus Blast and Hurricane for its damage output, and they both have 70% accuracy. Mega Pidgeot has the luxury of not missing with Hurricane so you're not screwed over by hax.

 

[Alfalfa]

Tornadus-T may be stronger as long as it holds a Life Orb, but it relies heavily on Focus Blast and Hurricane for its damage output, and they both have 70% accuracy. Mega Pidgeot has the luxury of not missing with Hurricane so you're not screwed over by hax.

TornT uses Superpower and not Focus Blast, and while Pidgeot has the luxury of not being dependent on rain, it is much easier to wall due to its lesser offensive output (remember that TornT can hold Life Orb), and is also easier to wall because Fire / Flying is ass coverage, especially considering that Mega Pidgeot is not that strong.

 

[Darkrafa]

TornT uses Superpower and not Focus Blast, and while Pidgeot has the luxury of not being dependent on rain, it is much easier to wall due to its lesser offensive output (remember that TornT can hold Life Orb), and is also easier to wall because Fire / Flying is ass coverage, especially considering that Mega Pidgeot is not that strong.

In fact depends, it is possible to use Focus Blast or Superpower, both are used.

Now see TT and M. Pidgeot are very similar. TT has a better movepool and an ability, in general, better, but without a reliable stab move. On the other hand, M. Pidgeot has a number of special attack considerably higher, and a reliable stab move. TT needs a life orb, or something like that, to cause significant damage, something M. Pidgeot does not need, and not can have it. Apart from these factors, the two are very similar.

Honestly, your quote from TT only made me have more certain that M. Pidgeot at the least in UU tier and now i see a possibility of BL tier, although this is improbable, but not impossible.

 

[Arch]

while Pidgeot has the luxury of not being dependent on rain

This is pretty much the defining point of why TornT is not widely used in OU, and why Pidgeot has a very valid reason to be used over it. While regenerator is a great ability, Pidgeot does have the benefit of Roost over Tornadus which is notable.

Even in sets that run Superpower, Torn still relies on low accuracy to get most of his damage output and he doesn't even hit that much harder than Pidgeot. Not only that, but TornT doesn't hit the same speed tier, as it has to sacrifice speed for additional attack or HP in all of his most popular sets. Pidgeot even has options in Defog.

As a raw special attacker, Pidgeot is more reliable, faster most of the time, and can recover health without having to switch out. Fire / Flying definitely isn't awful coverage either, as the checks and counters listed in the OP are pretty much it, and they are easily handled by popular mons like Azumarril and Excadrill in tandem with U-Turn. As all wallbreaker, obviously, this tells a different story, but Pidgeot isn't a wallbreaker.

 

[LoDart210]

Heres hoping this thing gets focus blast as a tm. Suddenly, empoleon, rhyperior, tyranitar and heatran are no longer problems.

 

[Darkrafa]

M. Pidgeot with Focus Blast would never be below the BL tier. That too would value his ability, and significantly improve their movepool.

But apparently he did not have. Already included in the demo moves of the TM/lvl up/ move tutor. And, for all i know, the TMs are the same of XY.

 

[Alfalfa]

This is pretty much the defining point of why TornT is not widely used in OU, and why Pidgeot has a very valid reason to be used over it. While regenerator is a great ability, Pidgeot does have the benefit of Roost over Tornadus which is notable.

Even in sets that run Superpower, Torn still relies on low accuracy to get most of his damage output and he doesn't even hit that much harder than Pidgeot. Not only that, but TornT doesn't hit the same speed tier, as it has to sacrifice speed for additional attack or HP in all of his most popular sets. Pidgeot even has options in Defog.

As a raw special attacker, Pidgeot is more reliable, faster most of the time, and can recover health without having to switch out. Fire / Flying definitely isn't awful coverage either, as the checks and counters listed in the OP are pretty much it, and they are easily handled by popular mons like Azumarril and Excadrill in tandem with U-Turn. As all wallbreaker, obviously, this tells a different story, but Pidgeot isn't a wallbreaker.

TornT does not have to sacrifice speed, it only sacrifices speed because there is nothing relevant beyond Raikou, Starmie, Choice Scarf Magnezone, and Choice Scarf Tyranitar that it can outspeed. It usually splits its EVs between Attack and Special Attack, and its standard set, while not hitting significantly harder, hits harder specially than Timid Mega Pidgeot. Pidgeot does have access to Defog, but it is weak to Stealth Rock, and unlike Defoggers like Mandibuzz or Zapdos who are also weak to Stealth Rock, does not have the options of recovery in Leftovers.

 

[Arch]

TornT does not have to sacrifice speed, it only sacrifices speed because there is nothing relevant beyond Raikou, Starmie, Choice Scarf Magnezone, and Choice Scarf Tyranitar that it can outspeed. It usually splits its EVs between Attack and Special Attack, and its standard set, while not hitting significantly harder, hits harder specially than Timid Mega Pidgeot. Pidgeot does have access to Defog, but it is weak to Stealth Rock, and unlike Defoggers like Mandibuzz or Zapdos who are also weak to Stealth Rock, does not have the options of recovery in Leftovers.

But the slightly harder hits are simply not reliable. A fully special Tornadus is comparable to Pidgeot, yes, but simply should not and cannot be called reliable, and is the reason why he does not run full speed and full sp.atk. He simply doesn't cut it as a straightforward full special attacker while Pidgeot does. He is a great wallbreaker, but it's not his special STAB's that are his saving grace, it's Superpower, Knock Off, U-Turn, and Rain, and those alone require him to play way differently from Pidgeot. And because Pidgeot does cut it, it can run max speed with timid while beating the speed tier Tornadus is in while freely doing what Tornadus cannot, spamming fast special attacks without needing weather. Which is why I won't be putting Tornadus as a notable con because without weather, he simply isn't a better special attacker.

 

[firehusky]

Dugtrio is a really great partner for pidgeot because it traps annoying electric types, and more importantly heatran. If you can predict a balloontran switching in, u-turn to pop it's balloon and then send in dugtrio for a free KO. Then pidgeot can run HP grass to hit rotom-w, which dugtrio can't trap.
EDIT: looks like that's been mentioned already, but I just found it in the ORAS good cores thread and I thought I might post it here :|

 

[blinkie]

Torn-T is a better pivot it actually has bulk, gains 33% of its HP each time it switches in and out, so yeah doesn't even really need Roost as much as mega Pidgeot does. Also you lose out on Defog, but you have Knock Off which provides utility, and also Superpower lets you not get hard walled by TTar, Heatran, jaja etc. Sure you have 70% accurate Hurricane but also Pidgeot has to deal with 100% accurate Stone Edges. mega Pidgeot takes up your mega slot, which could be used on something else, and while it does hit considerably harder, on many teams this wouldn't be that much of a factor compared to using up the mega slot.

Plus in rain and with LO, you suddenly get 100% accurate Hurricane and also increased damage output. I know this requires rain, but Pidgeot isn't making OU just with a 100% accurate Hurricane.

 

[firehusky]

TT and mega pidgeot are very different pokemon. TT as you said is more of a pivot, with AV it gets lots of special bulk, and is pretty fast. However, you shouldn't be trying to use mega pidgeot as a pivot. Mega pidgeot also doesn't really run roost a lot because teams that use it mainly run the core of mega pidgeot | dugtrio | healing wish latias to support it. Even though TT has a wide movepool, hurricane isn't the most spammable move outside of rain, and going around spamming superpower and knock off isn't the best thing to do. TT requires rain way too much to actually function, but seeing how rain is getting quite popular with mega swampert, I could imagine it might rise in usage a little bit. Even though mega pidgeot takes up your mega stone, it has lots of pros, such as being very fast, a strong 110 base power STAB move with no drawbacks, and decently good coverage with heat wave. Mega pidgeot is also a great cleaner, because it has high special attack and speed and can often just clean up entire teams if counters have been weakened enough.

 

[firehusky]

Honestly, I wish this bird will get some better moves in ORAS like focus blast. But sadly I think it's not getting it because moves have been revealed already, and iirc pidgeot isn't getting focus blast :(

 

[Kurona]

Honestly, I wish this bird will get some better moves in ORAS like focus blast. But sadly I think it's not getting it because moves have been revealed already, and iirc pidgeot isn't getting focus blast :(

ORAS is already out and hence it's been confirmed that it's moves are exactly as in the demo.

 

[Death Phenomeno]

Would Ominous Wind (from gen. 4 tutor, equivalent to HP Ghost) be an acceptable filler, or would it be a waste of a moveslot?

 

[trikx_insane]

Would Ominous Wind (from gen. 4 tutor, equivalent to HP Ghost) be an acceptable filler, or would it be a waste of a moveslot?

It's a redundant move, that's not even STAB, low base power, and you're relying on RNG to give you stat boosts. You're better off using U-Turn, Double-Edge, Heat Wave, Defog or Roost. What exactly would you be trying to hit with Ominous Wind?

 

[Karxrida]

It's a redundant move, that's not even STAB, low base power, and you're relying on RNG to give you stat boosts. You're better off using U-Turn, Double-Edge, Heat Wave, Defog or Roost. What exactly would you be trying to hit with Ominous Wind?

Double Edge coming off of uninvested Base 80 Attack isn't going to do much, and it doesn't hit anything regardless. If a Rotom-W shows up you're better off just using U-turn.

 

[ninjasktho]

The set I'm thinking of testing out is:

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Whirlwind
- Pursuit

It's by no means even close to being ideal. I might opt for U-Turn over Pursuit, but across the board a moveset for this mon is frustrating.

 

[Burt Racecar]

I think u-turn, roost or defog would be far better options over pursuit and whirlwind.

I'm not quite sure who you plan on pursuit trapping, but off a base 80 attack and a detrimental nature, it's not going to do that much even as a super-effective hit.

Calcs take into account double bp of pursuit on the switch:
0- Atk Pidgeot Pursuit vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 130-154 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO (we all know how frail Gengar is)
0- Atk Pidgeot Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 94-112 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- 76.4% chance to 3HKO

U-turn on the other hand has minimal chip damage but more importantly provides a free switch to whatever.

Whirlwind is an interesting idea, I see the merits but the fact that it always goes last is less than ideal for Pidgeot, it's quite frail and would rather not take an unnecessary hit. I personally would abuse its speed and u-turn out of a threat or fire off a hurricane against whatever's switching in, instead of phazing.


On another note, I've actually been pleasantly surprised with how well Mega-Pidgeot has been faring in OU. While it's not going to be a top ranked threat, it can certainly blow holes in teams with almost minimal effort.

 

[LoDart210]

That great thing about pidgeot is its reliability. As a late game cleaner, its really fantastic! We all saw what mono flying stab can do (mega salemence and talonflame).


The problem is how one track pidgeot is. It has one damn job and it does it right, but stick it in any other situation or give it any other move, and it sucks.

Conclusion: it is definitely usable and does its job well but build a team that doesnt rely on it because outside its comfort zone, it sucks.

 

[ninjasktho]

I think u-turn, roost or defog would be far better options over pursuit and whirlwind.

I'm not quite sure who you plan on pursuit trapping, but off a base 80 attack and a detrimental nature, it's not going to do that much even as a super-effective hit.

Calcs take into account double bp of pursuit on the switch:
0- Atk Pidgeot Pursuit vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 130-154 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO (we all know how frail Gengar is)
0- Atk Pidgeot Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 94-112 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- 76.4% chance to 3HKO

U-turn on the other hand has minimal chip damage but more importantly provides a free switch to whatever.

Whirlwind is an interesting idea, I see the merits but the fact that it always goes last is less than ideal for Pidgeot, it's quite frail and would rather not take an unnecessary hit. I personally would abuse its speed and u-turn out of a threat or fire off a hurricane against whatever's switching in, instead of phazing.


On another note, I've actually been pleasantly surprised with how well Mega-Pidgeot has been faring in OU. While it's not going to be a top ranked threat, it can certainly blow holes in teams with almost minimal effort.

Those are not pretty numbers. I just wish Pidgeot could run another offensive move, predicting sets is going to be too easy. That said, LoDart is right, outside its zone, it's dead in the water.

 

[GateRH]

Well, Pigeot, in my opnion, didn't became a great pokemon with the mega evolution, and can be defeated very easily only with a single Greninja Ice beam.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Pidgeot: 439-517 (142.5 - 167.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I used normal pidgeot because his spdef is similar the mega, but this show that M-Pidgeot can be defeated by one of the most used pokemons, and the mega evolution is a very important point in a team, so use a pidgeot as mega in the team to be defeated easily is waste of room in your team. Of course, M-Pidgeot has an unquestionable sp attack and speed, but I was waiting more about him, maybe 150 in speed would help, make it similar to M-Beedril, with incredible attack and speed hard to be surpassed. Maybe Pidgeot would be more useful if the rumor of being Flying/Fairy was true, this would make him a very useful pokemon, but... nope.

About moveset, the no guard it's a very good option for use Hurricane, and I consider the use of Defog or Tailwind, no Roosts, the Hidden Power is a point to think, maybe HP Fire or Ground.

Another serious problem in Pidgeot is the very bad learnset, with few special attacks, the only nice things he have is Hurricane and HP, Only, so, my suggestion is that

Pidgeot @Pidgeotite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 52 HP/204 SpA/252 Spe
Timid nature
- Hurricane
- Hidden Power Fire
- Protect
- Tailwind

Yeah, nice pokemon, but could be better

 

[Camara]

Most pokémon that are weak to one of Greninja's attacks are usually dead, Mega Pidgeot it nothing new there. And while it's far from being anything bulky 83/80/80 is okish, I've seen it survive things like Garchomp's SE.

As a Mega, Pidgeot's role is that of a hit and run sweeper, it should never stay in things that are faster and can OHKO like Greninja. In that case he should just switch out. With a +100 stat increase from a mediocre stat setup it would never become amazing - if you want something like that pick a pseudo-legendary and give them a mega, even the defenses will be good.

Indeed (Mega) Pidgeot's movepool is horrible. It has barely what it needs to at least be useful (Hurricane, Heat Wave, Roost, Defog, U-Turn), but outside this only Feather Dance and Mirror Move (if you want to be gimmicky) can do anything. So it's extremely predictable.
Trollfreak naturally did nothing to change this - I guess Pidgeot is loved but not as much as all the other Megas that got new moves to abuse in Mega.

Let's hope in the next Gens it will get powerful but inaccurate moves to abuse and be less predictable.

 

[firehusky]

Hidden Power Fire is totally outclassed by heat wave lol
Pidgeot has a small movepool, but it's all it needs to do its job. Defog and Tailwind and Roost are all wastes, because pidgeot isn't supposed to be used as a support pokemon, it's a cleaner and sweeper. Using it as a hazards remover isn't a great idea since it's weak to rocks, and u-turn is probably better to gain momentum.

 

[heritage]

Well, Pigeot, in my opnion, didn't became a great pokemon with the mega evolution, and can be defeated very easily only with a single Greninja Ice beam.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Pidgeot: 439-517 (142.5 - 167.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I used normal pidgeot because his spdef is similar the mega, but this show that M-Pidgeot can be defeated by one of the most used pokemons, and the mega evolution is a very important point in a team, so use a pidgeot as mega in the team to be defeated easily is waste of room in your team. Of course, M-Pidgeot has an unquestionable sp attack and speed, but I was waiting more about him, maybe 150 in speed would help, make it similar to M-Beedril, with incredible attack and speed hard to be surpassed. Maybe Pidgeot would be more useful if the rumor of being Flying/Fairy was true, this would make him a very useful pokemon, but... nope.

About moveset, the no guard it's a very good option for use Hurricane, and I consider the use of Defog or Tailwind, no Roosts, the Hidden Power is a point to think, maybe HP Fire or Ground.

Another serious problem in Pidgeot is the very bad learnset, with few special attacks, the only nice things he have is Hurricane and HP, Only, so, my suggestion is that

Pidgeot @Pidgeotite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 52 HP/204 SpA/252 Spe
Timid nature
- Hurricane
- Hidden Power Fire
- Protect
- Tailwind

Yeah, nice pokemon, but could be better

You know it gets Heat Wave, right?
Not to mention that 100% Hurricane coming off that sexy 135 base Special Attack stat is nothing to scoff at. Who would switch in their Pidgeot to a Greninja anyways?

EDIT: Curse you firehusky and your ninja skills