-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Pidgeot
- Thread starter Arch
- Start date
- Status
That was the most useless post I think I've ever seen. We've been discussing this for pages and we know if would be better with Focus Blast. It has it's niches late game with out it anyways. It's got a great speed tier and powerful attacks. People sleep on this thing because it doesn't have Focus Blast, but that's no reason to let it run wild as a late game sweeper. Having 100% accurate EVERYTHING is one of the most redeeming feelings when playing Pokemon.
Last edited:
Well, for now it's C- in OU, which at least means it does something. :P
In UU is A- and rising.
In the strategy pokedex it is still described as unreleased/NU (depending on the place), (and UU has no individual threads for pokémon) when will it be decided the tier of these new pokemon?
silver97
GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
We have to wait for the new usage stats to have more accurate tierlists
How would a timid mostly hp invested and fully speed invested mega pidgeot work? It has ok bulk, and even without invested spa it does hit at around the same strenght as an adament 252 talonflame.
silver97
GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
It would probably suck because there is no need of bulk Since the only relevant utility move is defog and pidgeot is a quite unreliable user of it. On the other hand it really needs power because having the same strenght as an unboosted talon is kinda lame for a mon whose role is destroying opponents by spamming hurricane.
Well Hurricane is pretty much everything Pidgeot actually has in terms of offense (yes Heat Wave I know), but Pidgeot doesn't have the bulk to go tankish, at least not in OU.
Pidgeot@Pidgeotite
Timid
252HP/4SpA/252Sp
~Hurricane
~Feather Dance
~Roost
~Toxic
This is very gimmicky. And walled by every steel after they discover your moveset (well, if they're physical and without recovery you may struggle to win mano a mano).
You're very fast so you can pull out a Feather Dance before they can attack you. Then Roost recovers your health and cuts off all your flying weaknesses during that turn, healing a lot more than what they might expect. Then Toxic stall them, or Toxic their shift in.
In case of doubt just Hurricane things, it still 2HKOs stuff even without investment (and never forget the confusion!):
4 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 177-208 (49.5 - 58.2%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
I don't think this works, specially against strong stab attacks (hi OU), but if you really want to do something different then try it. For sure weaker physical attackers will get frustrated.
But why use this Pidgeot for? I can only think in Toxic-ing things that never imagined you carried it, but outside of that...
Sorry, my last post was from my phone. When I said mostly HP invested I didn't mean go the whole 252 EVs, just to a certain %.
The main reason I want to know is that Pidgeot despite its semi low bulk does live from a good number of attacks sometimes and even with fully vested timid 252 spa it isn't scoring a ton of OHKOs on things even (a lot of my shots with its hurricane produce 2HKOs w/o rocks/spikes support).
So I was thinking, is there perhaps a magic number where Pidgeot wouldn't lose much overall kill power with its hurricane and whatnot and at the same time live from certain attacks that would have 1HKO'd it or would have 1HKO'd it after rocks?
Also as far as the two sets on the front page go (in case they are listed by preferred order, IDK), IMO I think sub-birdspam is better than birdspam blitz, I have had Pidgeot keep its sub up for example on resisted moves/certain weak moves/stop sucker punch's and a semi weak u-turn, knock off, foul play, ect that fails to blow up Pidgeot's sub could lose a poke for it. Plus again its is great for the other common reasons.
The main reason I want to know is that Pidgeot despite its semi low bulk does live from a good number of attacks sometimes and even with fully vested timid 252 spa it isn't scoring a ton of OHKOs on things even (a lot of my shots with its hurricane produce 2HKOs w/o rocks/spikes support).
So I was thinking, is there perhaps a magic number where Pidgeot wouldn't lose much overall kill power with its hurricane and whatnot and at the same time live from certain attacks that would have 1HKO'd it or would have 1HKO'd it after rocks?
Also as far as the two sets on the front page go (in case they are listed by preferred order, IDK), IMO I think sub-birdspam is better than birdspam blitz, I have had Pidgeot keep its sub up for example on resisted moves/certain weak moves/stop sucker punch's and a semi weak u-turn, knock off, foul play, ect that fails to blow up Pidgeot's sub could lose a poke for it. Plus again its is great for the other common reasons.
There's not really a magic number. It has enough bulk to shrug off weak attacks from, say, wall oriented mons, but without full attack investment it can't really do that much back to them either. Max attack is pretty much always recommended because you want to constantly be dealing the most damage you can as playing Pidgeot as a hit and runner is optimal for it in OU.
You simply can't sacrifice speed, so you'd be splitting between bulk and attack when even a fully invested defense doesn't do that much for it. The best defensive purpose for Pidgeot are its immunities likes ghost and ground where Pidgeot doesn't need investment defensively anyways.
At the end of the day, you want to keep the bird's sp.attack EV's in the 200+. At which point, is a few dozen bulk points really going to be making a difference against mons that won't hit it hard to begin with? The switches Pidgeot forces with sub are going to be mons you want to hit really hard anyways, so bulk gets a little redundant.
You can experiment with featherdance, toxic, work up, etc. A bulky work up set could potentially do real work, but for the most part the main birdspam set is what works best in OU's environment without needing a crazy amount of support. If you want to experiment with bulky / unique sets I would try playing UU (as well as RU where Pidgeot is currently legal but probably won't be for long) where the metagames are much, much more forgiving for it.
You simply can't sacrifice speed, so you'd be splitting between bulk and attack when even a fully invested defense doesn't do that much for it. The best defensive purpose for Pidgeot are its immunities likes ghost and ground where Pidgeot doesn't need investment defensively anyways.
At the end of the day, you want to keep the bird's sp.attack EV's in the 200+. At which point, is a few dozen bulk points really going to be making a difference against mons that won't hit it hard to begin with? The switches Pidgeot forces with sub are going to be mons you want to hit really hard anyways, so bulk gets a little redundant.
You can experiment with featherdance, toxic, work up, etc. A bulky work up set could potentially do real work, but for the most part the main birdspam set is what works best in OU's environment without needing a crazy amount of support. If you want to experiment with bulky / unique sets I would try playing UU (as well as RU where Pidgeot is currently legal but probably won't be for long) where the metagames are much, much more forgiving for it.
Last edited:
So, I saw this on another thread with Pidgeot here and no one talked about it that I could see, but what about agility/tailwind? Porygon-Z and Mega-Pidgeot are packing the same base SpA, and while Z has nasty plot and agility when Pidgeot only has work up by itself with no items Pidgeot is packing a slightly stronger stab move to use at least.
Well only slightly stronger til Z can just use download and get a boost on the right switch in/carry an item to out power Pidgeot anyway with just adaptability and Z has other moves besides fire and wind but Pidgeot has a few extra points though:
1. Bulk is slightly better (granted not by much, and Z doesn't take 25% from rocks)
2. Birdspam that won't kill user > Triattack spam for a main move
3. Is faster than Z before it runs agility (238 before mega, 278 with a neutral nature after Mega. 116 EVs lets it outgun base 90s before agility as well for an example. Granted it already has enough of a base speed to just slap all of its points into bulk)
4. Tailwind could provide some team support
Granted, chances are again that this is just better in UU than OU.
Well only slightly stronger til Z can just use download and get a boost on the right switch in/carry an item to out power Pidgeot anyway with just adaptability and Z has other moves besides fire and wind but Pidgeot has a few extra points though:
1. Bulk is slightly better (granted not by much, and Z doesn't take 25% from rocks)
2. Birdspam that won't kill user > Triattack spam for a main move
3. Is faster than Z before it runs agility (238 before mega, 278 with a neutral nature after Mega. 116 EVs lets it outgun base 90s before agility as well for an example. Granted it already has enough of a base speed to just slap all of its points into bulk)
4. Tailwind could provide some team support
Granted, chances are again that this is just better in UU than OU.
I would like to see in OU what Mega Pidgeot can do outside of the classic special sweeper set but I fear he is too pressured to do just that: he has no time and no turns to lose (do you really have two free turns in OU for Work Up + Tailwind?), he has to spam Hurricanes or die.
Remember that without being Timid, before Tailwind, he is slower than the entire 110s-115s that plague OU. And Pidgeot can't afford to be slower. Maybe now with ninja gone he has some more breathing room, but I don't believe it.
The difference between Timid and Modest isn't that big, Mega Pidgeot 2hKOs most of OU: ~65% each Hurricane if Timid, ~75% if Modest, something like that - that's why Modest won't score many extra kills from what I've seen. So you got minimal extra kills for very dangerous outspeedings by several targets.
It's a piety because +1 Hurricanes really start to put pressure on its checks (physical Rotom is 2HKOed by Hurricane without being able to KO back with Volt Switch, physical Rhyperior can't switch in Hurricane, etc) and the right HP at +1 can be deadly.
I think in UU (if he stays there, I think he will be S/A+ UU) Mega Pidgeot may be more free to try something like that. Maybe even go bulky and spam Work Up as UU is slower and he is fast enough.
Remember that without being Timid, before Tailwind, he is slower than the entire 110s-115s that plague OU. And Pidgeot can't afford to be slower. Maybe now with ninja gone he has some more breathing room, but I don't believe it.
The difference between Timid and Modest isn't that big, Mega Pidgeot 2hKOs most of OU: ~65% each Hurricane if Timid, ~75% if Modest, something like that - that's why Modest won't score many extra kills from what I've seen. So you got minimal extra kills for very dangerous outspeedings by several targets.
It's a piety because +1 Hurricanes really start to put pressure on its checks (physical Rotom is 2HKOed by Hurricane without being able to KO back with Volt Switch, physical Rhyperior can't switch in Hurricane, etc) and the right HP at +1 can be deadly.
I think in UU (if he stays there, I think he will be S/A+ UU) Mega Pidgeot may be more free to try something like that. Maybe even go bulky and spam Work Up as UU is slower and he is fast enough.
Well the point of the double boost isn't to assume you'll get two free turns, it is to use what one you need at the time (like how Porygon-Z does). If you are going against frail speedsters, you tailwind/agility on your switch, if you have a bunch of slower walls left you work up.
Still nice point on timid vs modest in even something like this (wasn't sure if the extra power was worth it, so thanks), a timid nature gives a bit more room to work with when figuring out which one you would want more when applying a buff (Pidgeot is 302 speed at timid w/o any EVs, 5 points off from fully beating un-boosted base 90 pokemon), so I do think this might make it more useful to UU.
Anyway, I guess I'm done on theory crafting for now.
Still nice point on timid vs modest in even something like this (wasn't sure if the extra power was worth it, so thanks), a timid nature gives a bit more room to work with when figuring out which one you would want more when applying a buff (Pidgeot is 302 speed at timid w/o any EVs, 5 points off from fully beating un-boosted base 90 pokemon), so I do think this might make it more useful to UU.
Anyway, I guess I'm done on theory crafting for now.
- Status