So something that dominates the mid-game, then gets dumped would be a ... B? I'll second that Geodude dominates the mid-game (and you can give it Dig for Norman to troll Slaking), but I dumped mine before all the water routes. It was without a doubt my MVP through Flannery. It just resisted so much random stuff trainers could throw at it.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
ORAS In-game Tier List - Read Post #324
- Thread starter Celever
- Start date
- Status
Question regarding Treeko: is it worth it to delay evolution until level 21 to get giga drain? Or is it more efficient to evolve it at level 16 and wait for grass pledge/leaf blade? (I wont be getting the game for a while, so my role will be just asking about certain mons like I did in XY)
Edit: I also like the idea of a pending dexnav changelist. The dexnav is an important feature in the game, and I think it should be accounted for, even if completely separately from the real in-game tier list.
I don't think anyone's covered Makuhita yet. Its initial placement is A-tier. Is that for the in-game trade or Granite Cave? Or is there no real difference how you get it? I'd just like a few words on Makuhita even if everyone else thinks A tier is obvious. I'm not exactly disagreeing, I'm just curious
Edit: I also like the idea of a pending dexnav changelist. The dexnav is an important feature in the game, and I think it should be accounted for, even if completely separately from the real in-game tier list.
I don't think anyone's covered Makuhita yet. Its initial placement is A-tier. Is that for the in-game trade or Granite Cave? Or is there no real difference how you get it? I'd just like a few words on Makuhita even if everyone else thinks A tier is obvious. I'm not exactly disagreeing, I'm just curious
Last edited:
Defenitley wait for giga drain. Without it treeko needs to wait a heck of a long time to get leaf blade. Because of its stats, treeko requires moves with general good base power. Even though Leaf blade got a big buff as it's now 90 base power, grovile's somewhat low 65 attack is nothing to write home about. One of the reasons treeko was bad early on in RS was
because it did not have acess to good stab moves. Treeko desperately needs giga drian in order to be effiecent during lv 10~29
Um, Grovyle learns Leaf Blade at level 23 in ORAS. Not really a heck of a long time. Really, it's the player's choice as to whether they wait for Giga Drain or evolve right away and use Leaf Blade.
Im also wondering about the comparitive inefficiency of getting grass pledge. For the time it takes to get Grovile to max happiness to get Grass Pledge, how big would the payoff be? Would you turn enough 2KOs into OHKOs between then and leaf blade to make up the difference with a move twice as strong as mega drain? The massage place is right there, and you'll have had treeko in your party long enough to have a significant headstart. By the time you get Giga Drain, you're not too far from Mauville anyway, right?
If you've already gotten Giga Drain, the difference in power between it and Grass Pledge is negligible, thus it really isn't worth teaching Grass Pledge.
no, I'm talking about planning ahead. Like, whats the point of waiting for Giga Drain when you can evolve at level 16, enjoy the stat boost, and know that you'll get grass pledge around when you would have gotten Giga Drain anyway?
Do remember that leaving Treecko unevolved till Level 21 for Giga Drain means it gets boosted experience for those last five levels and henceforth will reach Level 21 faster. Even then Treecko will more than likely still be Treecko for Brawly which means it will not be as useful for Brawly (assuming two mon no exp share at that point) but then again, that is what team mates are for right?
And Grass Pledge is never worth it. The increase in 5 BAP over Giga Drain is outclassed by the sustainability of the latter, especially when they both have the same PP value. Grinding to Level 21 for Giga Drain is far more efficient relative to running around for max happiness.
And Grass Pledge is never worth it. The increase in 5 BAP over Giga Drain is outclassed by the sustainability of the latter, especially when they both have the same PP value. Grinding to Level 21 for Giga Drain is far more efficient relative to running around for max happiness.
I'm less concerned about Brawly than I am about the routes and trainers between Brawly and Mauville. Given a team of 3 with no EXP share and a traded mon among them (I'm going for the event beldum but the in-game makuhita trade works too) when would you expect Treecko to get to level 21 just by fighting trainers and wild Pokemon as you go? Before Mauville? After?
dwarfstar
mindless philosopher
You can get to LV21 before Mauville without excessive wild-grinding, sure. I did exactly that - waited till LV21 and then evolved after the battle with May - and it is most definitely worth it. It helps if you try to catch one of every new kind of Pokemon you encounter, but even if you don't, it shouldn't be too much of a hassle, and the combination of power and sustainability is beautiful.
What dwarfstar said pretty much though it is possible to get it before route 110 if you are running less than three to that point w/o mindless grinding.
Also on what I said earlier? Turns out the boosted exp is not as relevant as I thought it would be as the differential is only roughly +654 exp from level 16 to level 21 (this will vary), not enough for one full level though that earlier leveling would be relevant enough in some situations hahaha.
Also on what I said earlier? Turns out the boosted exp is not as relevant as I thought it would be as the differential is only roughly +654 exp from level 16 to level 21 (this will vary), not enough for one full level though that earlier leveling would be relevant enough in some situations hahaha.
It's definitely much less cut-and-dry in favor of waiting for Giga Drain than I first assumed it was. The brunt of the time you'll be holding off on evolution for Giga Drain will be from Brawly to Wattson, and the lack of power and defenses against Brawly is noticeable to the point that it's likely a teammate will overtake Treecko as the highest-leveled party member for the Dewford Gym and subsequent couple of routes; the small amount of boosted EXP Treecko would get during those 5 levels would be more than offset by the increased number of trainers Grovyle could successfully take on. Against Wattson, Grovyle's boosted defenses are more essential to it coming out on top than whichever not very effective move among Giga Drain, Grass Pledge, or Leaf Blade it uses to slowly KO stuff.
The sustainability from Giga Drain can actually be counterproductive at times since one of the main efficiency benefits your starter's supposed to offer is Blaze/Torrent/Overgrow abuse. My level 46 Mega Sceptile failed to KO Wallace's level 44 Sealeo with Giga Drain and got taken out by its Aurora Beam That was probably due to a bad IV and/or damage roll, but come on - super effective STAB from base 145 Special Attack should be serious overkill. Taken together, it would be enough to make me seriously consider going for the evolution and Grass Pledge (even if it meant waiting to learn it until you automatically go back to Mauville after picking up the Meteroite).
I'd say numel stays in A-tier, perhaps even B-tier. It's movepool is excellent and it has some good power backing it lava plume being brilliant and earth power and rock slide (gained upon evolution) Cover a good amount of stuff. It's stats are pretty good all round, attack stats in the 100's. It's bulk is rather average, not bad in it's own right. Its bad speed tier makes this a larger problem than it should be, but keep it away from water and you'll do ok. It's abilities are ok, rock head takes the edge off weaker water attacks and ground type moves, but magma armour is pretty useless.
It's problems lie in well, the general nature of the game just dicks it over. Because of the rather low levels in the game, the evolution is pushed back to post fifth gym if you're trying to avoid over levelling, so it's not exactly an early evolution. If you're playing alpha sapphire, then you'll know what's next. Holy shit so much water. With the late game's abundance of water routes in conjunction with team aqua, I often left my camerupt sitting there in my team, picking off the occasional Zubats and Grimers. Numel also doesn't fare too well against the gyms. It can do a decent job against Flannery's weaker Slugma and Numel and burn Norman to death as a Camerupt if you take the time to level it.
The remaining three gyms aren't exactly good matchups. Water gym is water gym, simple. Winona has pelipper and her bulky altaria to screw with numel while tate and liza absolutely screw with numel's stabs. Conversely, it handles the elite 4 surprisingly well, generally being able to take on Sidney and Phoebe and And melting anything not named walrein. It's also great against steven, dealing with his abundant steel and rock types with burns and super effecting moves. Drake however leaves no room for camerupt to shine.
Numel ultimately has too many mixed match ups to be considered S-tier late game. It slaughters most trainers you encounter and usually stands a chance against anyone not with water types. But the long stretch of water routes and trainers late game, average bulk mixed with terrible speed mixed and exploitable typing can be detrimental to it. But i'm probably being to harsh, it still has some tremendous firepower (hehe) and looking at my hall of fame, was worth a spot on my team. So A seems to be the best tier for it.
It's problems lie in well, the general nature of the game just dicks it over. Because of the rather low levels in the game, the evolution is pushed back to post fifth gym if you're trying to avoid over levelling, so it's not exactly an early evolution. If you're playing alpha sapphire, then you'll know what's next. Holy shit so much water. With the late game's abundance of water routes in conjunction with team aqua, I often left my camerupt sitting there in my team, picking off the occasional Zubats and Grimers. Numel also doesn't fare too well against the gyms. It can do a decent job against Flannery's weaker Slugma and Numel and burn Norman to death as a Camerupt if you take the time to level it.
The remaining three gyms aren't exactly good matchups. Water gym is water gym, simple. Winona has pelipper and her bulky altaria to screw with numel while tate and liza absolutely screw with numel's stabs. Conversely, it handles the elite 4 surprisingly well, generally being able to take on Sidney and Phoebe and And melting anything not named walrein. It's also great against steven, dealing with his abundant steel and rock types with burns and super effecting moves. Drake however leaves no room for camerupt to shine.
Numel ultimately has too many mixed match ups to be considered S-tier late game. It slaughters most trainers you encounter and usually stands a chance against anyone not with water types. But the long stretch of water routes and trainers late game, average bulk mixed with terrible speed mixed and exploitable typing can be detrimental to it. But i'm probably being to harsh, it still has some tremendous firepower (hehe) and looking at my hall of fame, was worth a spot on my team. So A seems to be the best tier for it.
Honestly, I found Nuzleaf/Shiftry to be useful in Omega Ruby. Seedot is utter shit, this is a no-brainer, but Nuzleaf actually has Grass STABs by level up now (No joke, it never learned a single Grass move until ORAS). Razor Leaf as soon as you evolve, and the rape that is Leaf Blade at a very reasonable 28; one level before Grovyle. I got lucky and got a Naughty Seedot with Beat Up right off the bat, but disregarding that in honor of the OP, it does take a bit to get a Dark STAB (Feint Attack at 24) but honestly, it was a level 14 Nuzleaf with Razor Leaf before I fought Roxanne. It obviously wasn't much use against Brawly/Flannery/Winona, but outside those gyms it was always useful. And holy shit did it rip the game in half as soon as you hit Mt. Pyre. Ghost and Psychic trainers and wild mons everywhere, followed by a Psychic gym (with perfect typing to rape Liza and Tate), fucktons of Water types and Water routes, followed by Wallace's gym. Phoebe and Glacia also got destroyed. The rest of my team never did catch up LOL.
If you've got OR, its a great Grass type really. Super early availability, great level up movepool, and an uncommon typing that's utterly great, especially late game. The 4x Bug weakness is a bitch, but its not hard to include a resistance to the absolute worst offfensive type in the game. You get a Leaf Stone before Winona, and not to mention, Super Training prize, so you can evolve Nuzleaf whenevs. Shiftry isn't too pathetically squishy (90/60/60), base 80 Speed is fine for ingame, and 100 Atk/90 Sp. Atk lets it use any attack it feels like using - its level up movepool and higher attack stat lean it more towards Physical though, so it makes an interesting alternative to Roselia and Lotad.
That said, Seedot is a bother, and its OR exclusive, so it gets dicked by Team Magma left and right and isn't available on both games without trading. B rank seems fair enough, considering all that plus a metric fuckton of weaknesses. I might edge it up a bit higher, but I'm a bit biased in the sense that I always did like Shiftry so its irrelevant. :P
If you've got OR, its a great Grass type really. Super early availability, great level up movepool, and an uncommon typing that's utterly great, especially late game. The 4x Bug weakness is a bitch, but its not hard to include a resistance to the absolute worst offfensive type in the game. You get a Leaf Stone before Winona, and not to mention, Super Training prize, so you can evolve Nuzleaf whenevs. Shiftry isn't too pathetically squishy (90/60/60), base 80 Speed is fine for ingame, and 100 Atk/90 Sp. Atk lets it use any attack it feels like using - its level up movepool and higher attack stat lean it more towards Physical though, so it makes an interesting alternative to Roselia and Lotad.
That said, Seedot is a bother, and its OR exclusive, so it gets dicked by Team Magma left and right and isn't available on both games without trading. B rank seems fair enough, considering all that plus a metric fuckton of weaknesses. I might edge it up a bit higher, but I'm a bit biased in the sense that I always did like Shiftry so its irrelevant. :P
Okay can someone please explain to me why Lileep is in B-Tier?
It is slow, it comes at a low level relative to the team, it is reliant on a 5 PP move and Giga Drain to deal damage (and Brine I suppose but it is fairly redundant coverage) and its best attacking stat is Base 61 Special Attack until it evolves. Even then it is stuck with an average 81/81 offences and not much else. Its matchup record is average at best (Winona and Wallace are your best match-ups but they are sketchy at best) though it is a little better in Alpha Sapphire with Team Aqua.
Sure it can take hits but taking hits and not dealing much in return is not grounds for being ranked highly. Exhibit A: Umbreon. Umbreon is a solid Pokémon but is always ranked bottom or nearabouts because while it has solid bulk, it hits like a wet paper towel and has bad coverage. Exhibit B: Shieldon. Excellent bulk and above average coverage but it struggles to deal damage at all and has a horrible typing. Gets thrown into the bottom ranks of tier lists as a result. Exhibit C: You get the point.
Lileep should drop down to C-Tier or D-Tier imo. In tier lists like these, offence is the king of the crop. If you cannot hit hard enough, then you are not going to be efficient enough to deserve a spot in the higher tiers.
It is slow, it comes at a low level relative to the team, it is reliant on a 5 PP move and Giga Drain to deal damage (and Brine I suppose but it is fairly redundant coverage) and its best attacking stat is Base 61 Special Attack until it evolves. Even then it is stuck with an average 81/81 offences and not much else. Its matchup record is average at best (Winona and Wallace are your best match-ups but they are sketchy at best) though it is a little better in Alpha Sapphire with Team Aqua.
Sure it can take hits but taking hits and not dealing much in return is not grounds for being ranked highly. Exhibit A: Umbreon. Umbreon is a solid Pokémon but is always ranked bottom or nearabouts because while it has solid bulk, it hits like a wet paper towel and has bad coverage. Exhibit B: Shieldon. Excellent bulk and above average coverage but it struggles to deal damage at all and has a horrible typing. Gets thrown into the bottom ranks of tier lists as a result. Exhibit C: You get the point.
Lileep should drop down to C-Tier or D-Tier imo. In tier lists like these, offence is the king of the crop. If you cannot hit hard enough, then you are not going to be efficient enough to deserve a spot in the higher tiers.
Ok, time to take this list on...
Is the Water Stone still very late? If so, I think that Lombre might end up lagging a little too much mid-game, so A-Tier might end up being the better place for it, which was pretty much the consensus anyway. However it is still very powerful, and will be in the higher ranks of A-Tier for sure.
Zubat could realistically be A-Tier.
Availability: Early -- Granite Cave. This is after the 1st badge, but Roxanne would have wrecked Zubat if it was in Rusturf Tunnel so it's just as well.
Typing: Poison/Flying. Obviously Flying-Type is good to see on an in-game tier list thanks to HM: Fly, though the Poison-Type isn't anything special in Hoenn. Neither is Flying-Type, really.
Stats: Pretty decent. Zubat is very fast, which is something Golbat and Crobat definitely build upon. Golbat's attack is great and Crobat's is awesome, while they both also have usable special attack stats. Their bulk leaves some to be desired, though.
Movepool: Pretty good. It has a good TM movepool with moves like Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball, while its level-up movepool gives it useful STABs all the time. Most notably, it gets Wing Attack at level 13, in time for Brawly.
Major Battles: It destroys Brawly, quad-resisting his Fighting-Type attacks and sweeping him with Wing Attack. Not so good against Wattson, and from there it's more "usable but nothing special" in the major battles, excluding Tate & Liza, which destroys the poor bat. However, depending on where the move tutors are, it might have Giga Drain for Wallace. Steven also resists most of Zubat's attacks. However, Crobat's speed and strength means that even neutral attacks do a huge chunk, keeping it consistently useful throughout your adventure.
Other: Golbat --> Crobat is a friendliness evolution, meaning that your experience with Zubat may change depending on how well you treat it. I'm sort of undecided between B- and A-Tier right now, but I'm leaning B.
Oddish (Vileplume) all depends on where the Leaf Stone is. Anyone have any info on this?
The Hoenn legends just come too late to be considered S-Tier imo (by that I mean Groudon and Kyogre).
I agree with keeping Lati@s in S-Rank. They can be a little underwhelming at times, but that's just because you have such huge expectations from the twins because they are legendaries. They would look way too out of place in A-Tier.
I personally agree with Swablu in B-Tier, but IDK, I don't have any experience with it in any game besides Colo + XD and it obviously has things like megas now to boost it ever higher.
Tropius to B looks good.
Geodude (No Trade) in A still works for me. Don't forget that Graveler can use Eviolite, which boosts its bulk substantially and means that the difference between it and it's final form isn't so noticeable in-game. It also has decent attack power either way.
I think we can all agree to Magikarp in S lol.
I think Tentacool in B, but more discussion is definitely needed.
Also I'm going to go ahead and move Ralts (Gardevoir) down. I'm still a bit undecided on the matter, but as a community I think we've put it in A lol.
The conclusion we reached with Shroomish was A-Tier, so I'm going to put it there. It can obviously be changed at any point, though.
And finally, IAR just posted about Lileep, which I can't see anyone really having a counter-argument for, so I'll move it down too.
Changes Since Last Time:
Shroomish Untested --> A
Magikarp A --> S
Ralts (Gardevoir) S --> A
Tropius A --> B
Lileep B --> C (though it could actually be D lol)
More Discussion Needed:
Tentacool B --> A
Zubat B --> A
Lotad S --> A
Oddish (Vileplume) C --> B
Swablu C --> B
Carvanha S --> A (It should be 100% S imo)
Feebas C --> D
Zigzagoon A --> B
Electrike A --> S (I was a little premature on this tbh)
Rhyhorn C --> B (This comes right when all of the water starts, which really hurts it. I think C, but it's at least worth some consideration)
Horsea (Trade) B --> C
I think that's all of them. There was a bit of discussion about Numel, but people were arguing about S, A and B, where both times the consensus was A. I'm not saying he can't change in the future, there just wasn't a proper nomination at any point.
Also, though I don't like doing this, Treecko will not change tiers. A-Rank is where it belongs, and unless something substantial happens like a patch giving Treecko Leaf Storm at level 6, Treecko WILL be A-Tier. It has completely dominated discussion in this thread thus far, so I think we should move on.
I'm searching for Water Stone and Blue Shard locations as we speak, and it looks like you're evolving your Lombre after the National Dex earliest, unless you spend a lot of time doing Super Training. Lotad apologists, namely Colonel M, can you address this? Because if this is the case, it's barely a tier B worthy Pokemon to be quite frank.
It will not destroy Brawley... Machop has Seismic Toss, and Makuhita has Knock Off. Considering they have superior stats to poor Zubat, Bulk Up and recovery from items, I think Zubat could easily lose here unless severely overlevelled. I'd rather train my starter beforehand to win here. And just how effective do you expect Giga Drain to be against Wallace? C/B, absolutely nothing to do with A really.
You get one before the Flying-type gym.
The fact that you get the Lati for free with their mega stones is reason enough to have them in the highest tier. The stats are stupidly high and the coverage moves are more than good.
A weak special defence stat boosted by Eviolite is still a weak special defence stat.
So what ever happened to punishing mons for having unusable first tier stages? Abra's isn't nearly as long as 'karp's and Slakoth can at least hit things decently and even sleep with Yawn (though it's still at the mercy of Exp Share / switch-outs). If it's okay for Magikarp to be in S, shouldn't Slaking be in A at the very least? Its OHKO potential is very high without having to spend time using setup moves.
It's certainly better than any one of Magnemite, Lotad, Carvanha and Ralts currently present in S-tier, so I don't see why you're so categorical about this. There's a lengthy discussion about this because there should be one.
Also, I'll hopefully catch up with responding to counterarguments I've received with regard to Golem, Sharpedo and Lotad, namely from Colonel M but also others as well. Had a really busy week.
Though I will confess the Water stone does come a little later than I thought. I dont see the issue presented to keeping it A - B might be worth investigating in.
The Slaking tidbit is very misleading. Slaking KOes one Pokemon but it must switch or do nothing every other turn. Maybe okay for Slakoth to climb a little, but youll have to be pretty convincing about A since trainers will start to carry a lot of Pokemon (barring some of the dumbfucks in Victory Road). Sweeping 5 of Drake's mons with Slaking is still slower than Gyarados (Kingdra is like the rare exception).
I also want to point out that Gyarados is much more convenient to pick up than Slakoth. Slakoth comes roughly the same time your team is maybe 3-6 levels above Slakoth. Magikarp can come around that time or it can wait until after Wattson where it will be about 10 levels below and your team should be able to handle switches (especially with mons like Geodude). S Rank for Magikarp is shaky to justify - this I can agree with. But it does sit in a funky limbo between A and S.
I think we have agreed with Sharpedo being the superior mon to obtain at that point and I have pointed out it does alright with some in-game battles while saving time outside of battles (sorry, saving time outside of battles is still a worthy contribution to the team - especially when many trainers may seek TMs like Ice Beam and such). IAR was the original person to present this to me.
I havent seen any counterarguments to Golem since I posted. Idc about Graveler being B. Im just saying stop trying to throw it in C where it doesnt even come close to belonging to.
Ive also addressed Lotad multiple times - to the point where I might as well pick him up in my next playthrough again I guess with Treecko and Geodude since their controversy is so high. I might as well hold them both back for Mega Drain and Giga Drain too - though as I said multiple times Lotad is much more comparable to a Water-type than Grass-type. Sucks because I really wanted to use Shroomish than Treecko - I sort of have a vendetta against non-Bulbasaur Grass-type starters (especially Chikorita. Good lord Gamefreak you fucked up that one).
The better proposition I will state is I will restart the game and test 4 mons side-by-side. I may add Zangoose as well because its potential for S Rank is climbing much higher than normal (pun intended?) Its_A_Random hold on to my Ralts a little longer please.
Now I will have a second chance for another good Kyogre
The Slaking tidbit is very misleading. Slaking KOes one Pokemon but it must switch or do nothing every other turn. Maybe okay for Slakoth to climb a little, but youll have to be pretty convincing about A since trainers will start to carry a lot of Pokemon (barring some of the dumbfucks in Victory Road). Sweeping 5 of Drake's mons with Slaking is still slower than Gyarados (Kingdra is like the rare exception).
I also want to point out that Gyarados is much more convenient to pick up than Slakoth. Slakoth comes roughly the same time your team is maybe 3-6 levels above Slakoth. Magikarp can come around that time or it can wait until after Wattson where it will be about 10 levels below and your team should be able to handle switches (especially with mons like Geodude). S Rank for Magikarp is shaky to justify - this I can agree with. But it does sit in a funky limbo between A and S.
I think we have agreed with Sharpedo being the superior mon to obtain at that point and I have pointed out it does alright with some in-game battles while saving time outside of battles (sorry, saving time outside of battles is still a worthy contribution to the team - especially when many trainers may seek TMs like Ice Beam and such). IAR was the original person to present this to me.
I havent seen any counterarguments to Golem since I posted. Idc about Graveler being B. Im just saying stop trying to throw it in C where it doesnt even come close to belonging to.
Ive also addressed Lotad multiple times - to the point where I might as well pick him up in my next playthrough again I guess with Treecko and Geodude since their controversy is so high. I might as well hold them both back for Mega Drain and Giga Drain too - though as I said multiple times Lotad is much more comparable to a Water-type than Grass-type. Sucks because I really wanted to use Shroomish than Treecko - I sort of have a vendetta against non-Bulbasaur Grass-type starters (especially Chikorita. Good lord Gamefreak you fucked up that one).
The better proposition I will state is I will restart the game and test 4 mons side-by-side. I may add Zangoose as well because its potential for S Rank is climbing much higher than normal (pun intended?) Its_A_Random hold on to my Ralts a little longer please.
Last edited:
Throwing in my own couple cents.
Aron for B-Tier
Availability: Granite Cave B1F, caught at level 12ish. This gen is different in that B1F requires Mach Bike and thus quite a bit of backtracking. It'll probably catch up with the rest of your team level-wise around Fallarbor-Meteor Falls (Slow EXP groups sucks), but it's not like it's missing out on much during this time period (lol Wattson). Its Mega Stone is given when you smash the rocks in Rusturf Tunnel, so you basically have its Mega as soon as you get it FE. It's a bit out of the way but the Breeders in Route 117 are really good for training a lv. 14ish Aron so you'd really want to go over there anyways.
Typing: Rock/Steel isn't the holy grail of typings, but it isn't bad. It lets it troll Normal-types and Flying-types really hard, and you can usually avoid its 4x weaknesses. Mega Aggron's pure Steel with Filter is defensively god-tier, although offensively you're missing out on STAB Rock Slide.
Stats: Defense. Its Attack is also good. But mostly you want to use its Defense stat to tank physical hits and kill in return. It requires a bit more healing than, say, Gardevoir, since it's taking a lot of hits, but it has good matchups against a wider range of mons because it can tank so many attacks.
Movepool: This is where Aron starts improving from RSE. Rock Tomb at level 13 is a godsend (and it's Aron's first time getting an LU Rock STAB!), followed by Iron Head at 22 and Rock Slide at 25. You also get Take Down for neutral coverage in general if you have Rock Head, and Double-Edge comes towards endgame. Heavy Slam is a bit too late but Iron Head is good enough (and more reliable too). TMs give you Dig, Bulldoze, and Earthquake.
Major Battles:
Wattson: I think there's one trainer's Electrike that's physical attacking that you could maybe face? But yeah stay away from here.
Flannery: It gets some nice EXP from the Ninja Boys, and Rock Tomb/Slide takes care of Slugma (which is actually slower than Aron). Torkoal's a bit too bulky, but if you have Sturdy then you can take one Overheat and maybe beat it I guess? Stay away from Numel though.
Norman: Wipes the floor with this gym. Nothing here can touch you. Slakings can 3HKO you with Feint Attack but taking into account Truant it's basically free EXP.
Winona: Gym trainers are easily taken down (except for that one Pelipper). Against Winona stay away from Pelipper and Altaria. It should be a Lairon right about now.
Tate and Liza: You have a nice type advantage and the only thing the leaders can do to you is Solrock's Solar Beam. If you're evolved into Aggron at this point Mega Aggron literally resists every single one of their moves. The trainers are also pretty easy, just watch out for Starmie and Medicham (both of which you can take down by Mega Evolving if you're an Aggron)
Wallace: Mega Aggron doesn't do that badly, though you'll probably have better choices at this point.
Team Aqua: Golbats and Mightyenas actually do more to you with Swagger than any of their attacks. Also, Carvanha doesn't actually get any Water-type moves other than Aqua Jet, and you can tank Aqua Jet. The only thing you're actually afraid of are the admins' Sharpedos (until you get Mega Aggron).
Team Magma: Numel causes you trouble, but everything else is easy peasy, just like with Team Aqua.
Sidney: Sidney is not doing any relevant damage to Mega Aggron and his mons are mostly pretty frail.
Phoebe: The only thing they can really do is burn you. The Special attacking mons might be able to do a little. Maybe. Dusclops, Banette, and Sableye aren't exactly suited to dealing damage.
Glacia: Avoid Walrein, you can't really beat it Mega or not. The other mons you destroy Mega or not, so you can Mega something else to deal with Walrein.
Drake: Mega Aggron trolls him hard. It shrugs off EQs like they're Tackles and while Flamethrower stings, it doesn't actually hurt thanks to Filter. Kingdra might be a problem. Maybe.
Steven: Mega Aggron rips apart his team, with the exception of maybe Claydol. Most notably, there's literally no way to lose to Mega Metagross if you use Mega Aggron. Unless you're being intentionally dumb.
Other: Its Speed sucks, so it might not be able to run from wild encounters. That can be really annoying. Also Ground-types and Fighting-types troll it hard until you get Mega Aggron.
Aron for B-Tier
Availability: Granite Cave B1F, caught at level 12ish. This gen is different in that B1F requires Mach Bike and thus quite a bit of backtracking. It'll probably catch up with the rest of your team level-wise around Fallarbor-Meteor Falls (Slow EXP groups sucks), but it's not like it's missing out on much during this time period (lol Wattson). Its Mega Stone is given when you smash the rocks in Rusturf Tunnel, so you basically have its Mega as soon as you get it FE. It's a bit out of the way but the Breeders in Route 117 are really good for training a lv. 14ish Aron so you'd really want to go over there anyways.
Typing: Rock/Steel isn't the holy grail of typings, but it isn't bad. It lets it troll Normal-types and Flying-types really hard, and you can usually avoid its 4x weaknesses. Mega Aggron's pure Steel with Filter is defensively god-tier, although offensively you're missing out on STAB Rock Slide.
Stats: Defense. Its Attack is also good. But mostly you want to use its Defense stat to tank physical hits and kill in return. It requires a bit more healing than, say, Gardevoir, since it's taking a lot of hits, but it has good matchups against a wider range of mons because it can tank so many attacks.
Movepool: This is where Aron starts improving from RSE. Rock Tomb at level 13 is a godsend (and it's Aron's first time getting an LU Rock STAB!), followed by Iron Head at 22 and Rock Slide at 25. You also get Take Down for neutral coverage in general if you have Rock Head, and Double-Edge comes towards endgame. Heavy Slam is a bit too late but Iron Head is good enough (and more reliable too). TMs give you Dig, Bulldoze, and Earthquake.
Major Battles:
Wattson: I think there's one trainer's Electrike that's physical attacking that you could maybe face? But yeah stay away from here.
Flannery: It gets some nice EXP from the Ninja Boys, and Rock Tomb/Slide takes care of Slugma (which is actually slower than Aron). Torkoal's a bit too bulky, but if you have Sturdy then you can take one Overheat and maybe beat it I guess? Stay away from Numel though.
Norman: Wipes the floor with this gym. Nothing here can touch you. Slakings can 3HKO you with Feint Attack but taking into account Truant it's basically free EXP.
Winona: Gym trainers are easily taken down (except for that one Pelipper). Against Winona stay away from Pelipper and Altaria. It should be a Lairon right about now.
Tate and Liza: You have a nice type advantage and the only thing the leaders can do to you is Solrock's Solar Beam. If you're evolved into Aggron at this point Mega Aggron literally resists every single one of their moves. The trainers are also pretty easy, just watch out for Starmie and Medicham (both of which you can take down by Mega Evolving if you're an Aggron)
Wallace: Mega Aggron doesn't do that badly, though you'll probably have better choices at this point.
Team Aqua: Golbats and Mightyenas actually do more to you with Swagger than any of their attacks. Also, Carvanha doesn't actually get any Water-type moves other than Aqua Jet, and you can tank Aqua Jet. The only thing you're actually afraid of are the admins' Sharpedos (until you get Mega Aggron).
Team Magma: Numel causes you trouble, but everything else is easy peasy, just like with Team Aqua.
Sidney: Sidney is not doing any relevant damage to Mega Aggron and his mons are mostly pretty frail.
Phoebe: The only thing they can really do is burn you. The Special attacking mons might be able to do a little. Maybe. Dusclops, Banette, and Sableye aren't exactly suited to dealing damage.
Glacia: Avoid Walrein, you can't really beat it Mega or not. The other mons you destroy Mega or not, so you can Mega something else to deal with Walrein.
Drake: Mega Aggron trolls him hard. It shrugs off EQs like they're Tackles and while Flamethrower stings, it doesn't actually hurt thanks to Filter. Kingdra might be a problem. Maybe.
Steven: Mega Aggron rips apart his team, with the exception of maybe Claydol. Most notably, there's literally no way to lose to Mega Metagross if you use Mega Aggron. Unless you're being intentionally dumb.
Other: Its Speed sucks, so it might not be able to run from wild encounters. That can be really annoying. Also Ground-types and Fighting-types troll it hard until you get Mega Aggron.
Last edited:
You get a Leaf Stone right before Fortree, which is approximately when you'll want to evolve Gloom anyways since it learns Giga Drain at 34.
Still making my way through the main story, uni work getting in the way. Although I can't offer massive detail, i wanted to point out somethngs and ask your opinions on:
Absol to A:
Absol to A:
- Absolite obtainable in the safari zone relatively early, straight after capture (acro bike)
- Mega absol 150 att 115 speed is awesome
- Access to more STAB moves compared to RSE, night slash/sucker punch
- Benefits from physical/special split
- Dark great neutral coverage, steel doesn't resist anymore
- Easier to evolve compared to RSE, blue berries = blue blocks, you should have enough berries from just playing the game to evolve
- Easier to capture, 100% rate under route 119 bridge during the day, no 6 tile rubbish.
Last edited:
Once you get it evolved into Milotic, what exactly does it contribute? Its speed is mid-tier but its offenses are mediocre and its movepool is absolutely awful. By level-up you get a bunch of Water-type moves and you don't get any coverage until Blizzard at Lilycove and Ice Beam in Sea Mauville (after Mossdeep Gym) (well okay you get Dragon Tail and Bulldoze but lol). That's a long time to be getting hard walled by three types (and you can't kill Water-types at all). Also taking the time to pick the berries takes away from an efficient run (though you are given a bunch of Pokeblocks before your first contest).
Also it's worth mentioning that Mega Absol has a very usable Base 115 Special Attack with a nice Special movepool (Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Dark Pulse, and maybe even Hidden Power if you get lucky with your IVs).
100 special attack isn't terrible, and STAB surf can pack a punch, especially to team Magma. But I do agree, milotics movepool is lack luster and it rather relies on TM's/HM's.
I forgot about mega absol's very usable special attack, this definitely can give absol some decent coverage.
- Status