Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[alexwolf]

alexwolf, could you possibly explain why Mega Slowbro was picked as one of the weakest of A+ Rank? I think it solidly deserves its current ranking and don't really understand the reason it would drop.

Mega Slowbro is one of the more weakest A+ rankers because the metagame is quite prepared for it, so you need to support it more than most A+ Pokemon in order to sweep, assuming we are talking about CM sets. TG + Energy Ball Manaphy, Unaware CM Clefable, NP Celebi, Encore Politoed, NP Thundurus, Specs Magnezone, Dark Pulse Greninja, Specs Raikou, SubDD Mega Gyarados, DD + Mega Altaria, and Toxic users are all ways to check or counter Mega Slowbro, depending on the boosting set it runs (Iron Defense + Slack Off or RestTalk). The defensive set has insane physical bulk and walls most physical attackers effortlessly, but the loss of Regenerator is huge and makes Mega Slowbro much more passive than regular Slowbro, despite the formers higher SpA. In general, defensive Mega Slowbro faces big competition from both regular Slowbro and other defensive MEvos (that are more unique in their defensive roles). All those factors combined to make it arguable one of the worst A+ rankers, but an A+ ranker nontheless. Whether or not it will stay there, will be heavily influenced by the discussion that takes place here.

I'd actually like quite a bit of reasoning on why these four are considered the weakest. Lando-I I can get purely for the opportunity cost of not being able to use Lando-T, but all of the others just seem ridiculously good to me. I guess Mega Evolution opportunity cost, but Pinsir's really the only Mega worth using on Birdspam (aside from maybe Pidgeot)

Mega Pinsir got three new big checks or counters, namely Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, and Mega Slowbro, and it's clear that it's not on the same level as Pokemon such as Mega Lopunny and Mega Charizard X, as it needs quite a bit support more than them. Landorus partially due to the opportunity cost and partially because it got some new checks and counters that make it harder for the RP set to sweep against offense, such as Mega Sceptile, or straight up counter it, such as Mega Latias. Gengar dislikes all those new faster MEvos and oftentimes struggles to switch in due to its frailty, and i already explained Mega Slowbro.

 

[Alfalfa]

People are under the assumption that bulky Dragon Dance Mega Altaria is a very good set, like TerrorDave . However, as I said before, Mega Altaria has a huge issue of having to choose between not being ran over by threats it is supposed to check vs. having enough speed to outspeed important threats at +1. You mention that it is not that difficult to get to +2, but offensive teams can easily pressure Mega Altaria from getting that many boosts. You say it all of its sets are threatening, but bulky Dragon Dance sets are really easy to stop, because they need to be at +2 or +3 just to have enough power and speed to actually beat opposing offensive teams. jbtc10 's points on offensive Dragon Dance are very much valid, while MAlt and Zard X have their differences, Mega Altaria still lacks the speed and power that Zard X has to offer. I think TerrorDave's argument on versatility is mostly just skipping over the flaws it actually has and how these flaws inhibit Mega Altaria's performance in battle.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

gengar is too adaptable of a pokemon to drop from a+

this mon has literally the second largest offensive movepool of an OU viable pokemon(hydreigon comes in first), and its got all the tools it needs. tentacruel stall spinning on standard LO 3 atks? just drop a move and stick in thunderbolt. lando-t a problem? stick in icy wind. there is no way gengar will ever be found without a tool for a certain situation, because its movepool is that vast.

 

[AM]

My thoughts on the current subject of discussion.

A+ > A This was extremely hyped at the start of ORAS and as time went on the illusion of its efficiency sort of unraveled and revealed that it's not as crazy as was expected. My issue with M-Bro is that its efficiency is based more on the support of teammates rather than itself, where self sufficiency in regards to how it functions against the majority of play-styles is a big concern to me when it comes to A+. Crobro has the same issues to an extent that Suicune has. It hates the use of Unaware CM Clefable, TG RD Energy Ball Manaphy, Life Orb and NP Thundurus and depending on its set is exploitable through various offensive and defensive cores, such as offensive M-Bro prone to offense and Double Dance being prone to Status users. M-Slowbro is buuuuulky and when given the opportunity it can put in a solid amount of work. However what seems amazing on paper is not necessarily a sign it will do well in practice and from my experience seeing and using it I feel it's not on par with the A+ ranked mons we have as of right now.

A+ > A I think this should drop to A because I feel it's just harder to pull off a sweep and its consistency is based on being at +2 to do some real damage. I don't find Pinsir more threatening or more viable than something like Charizard-Y for example, but that's more so my opinion based on what I've seen. Alexwolf made a real good case for the drop when the ranking team was discussing it so I'd much rather have him explain it if he's up for it.

Still debating So far I'm leaning more towards A+ considering the arguments that have been presented to me both on here and through various people I've been able to discuss this with. Versatility along with its various utility is the selling point for me so until I here a really good argument for a drop I'll have to wait and see.

A+ > A+ To me this was debatable initially but as I started using it more and testing out its efficiency in practice to get a more concrete feel for it I'm going to have to say that it's definitely an A+ ranked threat. CM Lando-I is absolutely ridiculous against stall and gives it some leverage against various special attackers to make up for its special bulk. Rock Polish sets for the most part needs one good opportunity during the match to get it going and this isn't exactly too difficult through the use of pivots such as Rotom-W or skillful double switches, so that alone helps its matchup against offense. Lando-I I feel has benefitted from a meta being prepared against physical threats because it leaves that opening for special wall-breakers such as Lando-I and Charizard-Y to take advantage of from an offensive perspective. The only realistic opportunity cost I find is that you can't use Lando-T, but for me this isn't very huge because I felt through practice Lando-I had more initial consistency in its role as a wall-breaker which I feel has been much more appreciated when I need this role without the use of a mega. I also love the fact I can cater my sets to help whatever issues I have such as Earth Power, HP Ice, Knock Off, Rock Polish for Lando-T + Latios cores or Earth Power, two coverage moves, CM to break various balanced and defensive cores. I guess if you go off the fact a higher speed tier doesn't help it then ok but it does have the tools to not only compensate for this but also threatens a vast majority of the tier with its presence alone. I really can't see it on the same rank as the likes of Garchomp and M-Venusaur tbh, granted they provide different aspects, but I feel Lando-I is more useful from my experience.

I know this isn't really up for discussion anyways but when I use M-Altaria it always puts in work. The Ferrothorn/Skarmory argument for mono DDance sets I think was flawed when one of M-Altarias best partner is Heatran which handles both of these. Even A+ stuff need some support and M-Altaria has enough consistency in practice when used well to be considered A+. Oh and M-Altaria picking and choosing sets isn't a huge issue lol. That makes it even more useful on top of its defensive utility it provides and versatility is a big selling point regardless.

I just got ninja'd hardcore by alexwolf for M-Bro and M-Pinsir lol.

 

[Alfalfa]

I know this isn't really up for discussion anyways but when I use M-Altaria it always puts in work. The Ferrothorn/Skarmory argument for mono DDance sets I think was flawed when one of M-Altarias best partner is Heatran which handles both of these. Even A+ stuff need some support and M-Altaria has enough consistency in practice when used well to be considered A+. Oh and M-Altaria picking and choosing sets isn't a huge issue lol. That makes it even more useful on top of its defensive utility it provides and versatility is a big selling point regardless.

I never said anything about Ferrothorn and Skarmory, I said that most teams are usually fully capable of pressuring Mega Altaria from getting anything past +1 or +2.

 

[JMach]

People are under the assumption that bulky Dragon Dance Mega Altaria is a very good set, like TerrorDave . However, as I said before, Mega Altaria has a huge issue of having to choose between not being ran over by threats it is supposed to check vs. having enough speed to outspeed important threats at +1. You mention that it is not that difficult to get to +2, but offensive teams can easily pressure Mega Altaria from getting that many boosts. You say it all of its sets are threatening, but bulky Dragon Dance sets are really easy to stop, because they need to be at +2 or +3 just to have enough power and speed to actually beat opposing offensive teams. jbtc10 's points on offensive Dragon Dance are very much valid, while MAlt and Zard X have their differences, Mega Altaria still lacks the speed and power that Zard X has to offer. I think TerrorDave's argument on versatility is mostly just skipping over the flaws it actually has and how these flaws inhibit Mega Altaria's performance in battle.

I have to somewhat disagree with this, simply because in order to stop MAlt getting to +2 you have to switch something in that can threaten to kill it. And if you're already at +1, surely you could just make the appropriate play (if you're a good enough player) and predict the switch, as no offensive threat is going to want to take a boosted hit. That's the thing about MAlt - all it takes is one boost and it doesn't particularly matter if you have something that can stop it. It's still hard as nails to switch into. Then it becomes a game of switch in or sack. And that's not a fun game to play. Combine all that with MAlt's bulk and longevity, and it's rinsed and repeated throughout the match.

 

[AM]

I never said anything about Ferrothorn and Skarmory, I said that most teams are usually fully capable of pressuring Mega Altaria from getting anything past +1 or +2.

Someone else mentioned this so I was addressing that point.

Also from when I used it in practice this is sort of false. It's pretty much a given that set up sweepers need their checks and counters out of the way but you're missing the point that M-Altaria doesn't just run Dragon Dance sets nor is it always just mono attacking sets. I've played matches where I would bluff mono attacking simply by switching out of its suppose checks and counters and then hit Ferrothorn and Skarmory for example purposes with Fire Blast late game, and then comes the sweep. The fact that it has both offensive and defensive utility to boot without a concrete idea of what set it may or may not be fully is what makes M-Altaria great. Sure you may know it's a DDance set or a Defensive set but you won't know the exact details until it's revealed which in some cases can be a hindrance to scout for or will be too late once you've realized it.

 

[Alfalfa]

I have to somewhat disagree with this, simply because in order to stop MAlt getting to +2 you have to switch something in that can threaten to kill it. And if you're already at +1, surely you could just make the appropriate play (if you're a good enough player) and predict the switch, as no offensive threat is going to want to take a boosted hit. That's the thing about MAlt - all it takes is one boost and it doesn't particularly matter if you have something that can stop it. It's still hard as nails to switch into. Then it becomes a game of switch in or sack. And that's not a fun game to play. Combine all that with MAlt's bulk and longevity, and it's rinsed and repeated throughout the match.

If you are talking about bulky Dragon Dance Mega Altaria sets, they are considerably underwhelming in almost every aspect; while they check a vast amount of Pokemon, they are really easy to stop. If you want me to concede, then I will, but you cannot continue to say that bulky Dragon Dance Mega Altaria is at all good, because from my experience, it is so easy to stop. Feel free to disagree with me on offensive sets, but the set I was referring to is much overhyped.

EDIT: I may have been acting too rashly in nominating it to drop, but the set I was consistently referring to is very underwhelming, and even from AM's idea of versatility, MAlt 's bulky Dragon Dance set is still is not that hard to stop. I will concede though.

 

[JMach]

If you are talking about bulky Dragon Dance Mega Altaria sets, they are considerably underwhelming in almost every aspect; while they check a vast amount of Pokemon, they are really easy to stop. If you want me to concede, then I will, but you cannot continue to say that bulky Dragon Dance Mega Altaria is at all good, because from my experience, it is so easy to stop. Feel free to disagree with me on offensive sets, but the set I was referring to is much overhyped.

EDIT: I may have been acting too rashly in nominating it to drop, but the set I was consistently referring to is very underwhelming, and even from AM's idea of versatility, MAlt 's bulky Dragon Dance set is still is not that hard to stop. I will concede though.

I don't have much experience with the bulky set - it could well be terrible - but offensive DD is pretty crushing. MAlt also offers great defensive synergy with a load of top threats.

To be fair to the defensive set though, it's not designed just to sweep.. It gets reliable recovery, hits harder than pretty much all other defensively oriented 'mons AND can play cleric with Heal Bell. It might not be as immediately threatening, but I'm sure it could pull its weight on a load of teams.

Saw your edit and I agree - I really don't think MAlt will be dropping for a while.

 

[Flamer]

Atm, I feel the only reason Megabro should drop is the over-preparation of the metagame to handling it. As huge of a threat it is, One of either NP Celebi, NP Thund-I or TG Eball manaphy is on every competent team that would be weak to Bro without it. All of the mons that counter it are also very viable themselves and easy to fit on the majority of teams. Its a similar case to Mega Pinsir during XY, where it constantly shifted due to how hew the metagame was prepared for it, perhaps after people prepare for Slowbro less it might move up but for now it should drop.

Gengar is one mon that should definately not drop. LO+Taunt is an amazing set and very few teams have a reliable way of beating it, it just comes in and forces you to play around predicting resisted moves. It has very few switchins, the best being Chansey, who get's taunted anyway and can be eventually beaten in this manner. The speed creep actually has had little effect on how it plays, it does its job wonderfully, and it remains a big threat that I always keep in mind when teambuilding. Keep it at A+

 

[Flamebot]

I'm going to be honest, the only one that I think is worth dropping is Mega Slowbro. Don't get me wrong, Mega Slowbro is a monster, but it's kinda situational for a Mega(I mean it has to pick and choose what it wants to beat imo more than another mega). Losing Regenerator also kinda sucks though you can choose when to Mega evolve it but still. Not only that but regular Slowbro doesn't waste your Mega and is still pretty bulky and has regenerator. Honestly it's just not as good anymore mainly because most teams are prepared for it in some wayand I think with how prepared teams are for Mega Slowbro that maybe regular Slowbro should drop too, but I haven't used regular much so I can't judge.

So yeah, I really don't think anything should drop besides Mega Slowbro and Mega Altaria for reasons that have already been said. Then again I basically said what everyone else has about Mega Slowbro but I wanted tmore than "agreeing with Mega Slowbro drop" and there isn't really much more to be said about it

 

[celes]

Gengar dropping is out of the discussion imo because of how versatile it is. Sub Wisp + Hex, LO 3 Attacks + Taunt/DBond/Sub, the ancient Sub Disable, Trick Scarf/Specs, or even the weird ass Lead Sash + Counter set. You really can't build and say you have something to reliably switch into Gengar because nothing really does unless you directly know the set. Mandibuzz w/ SpDef, Heatran, Tyranitar, and Ferrothorn are some of the best mons to check it, but Ferro loses to Sub Disable, Tyranitar loses to Wisp or a Focus Blast on the switch-in, Mandibuzz loses to D-Bond if it Foul Plays, and Heatran dies to a LO Shadow Ball followed up by Focus Blast. Gengar is just a really annoying and hard mon to play around, especially because of the Ghost buff. I think it's good at A+, especially since you usually can't even predict the set from team preview depending on your opponent's build, and it can either break offense or stall.

Landorus-I should stay A+ because of how good its Calm Mind set, and even it's Knock Off +3 Attacks set is right now.
It really just eats common Stall builds alive rn, not to mention Balance. Tentacruel, Chansey, Jirachi, Quagsire, Skarm, Mandibuzz, Slowbro, M-Altaria, M-Sableye, etc. all are just a light snack to Landorus. Unless you have Celebi (assuming no Sludge Wave or Knock Off) or Cress (assuming not CM + Sludge Wave, which won't matter if it has Ice Beam) on your stall, Landorus really can break through you with a bit of support. It's also pretty good against offense since the combination of Earth Power and Psychic destroys a lot of common mons without much prediction being needed. I think Landorus is as good as it was around mid-XY rn, because the most people do to prepare for it is slap a Lati on their team. It's speed tier is lacking but it's great a great mon atm.

I think M-Pinsir should drop to A. While Pinsir does shit on new megas like Lopunny, Sceptile, Beedrill, and Gallade, the ubiquotous Landorus-Therian amongst others can beat it very handily, although they nothing barring a healthy Zapdos or Rotom-W wants to switch in right away. The thing about Pinsir is that it wants to come in once it can SD, and before it mega evolves, and either sweep from there or break everything to the point that a cleaner can finish up the remnants of teams because of its crippling weakness to SR that prevents it from switching in and out as it pleases. But Scarf Tyranitar, Scarf Magnezone, Slowbro, Rotom-W and Landorus-Therian are so common that it's hard for Pinsir to break apart teams like it could during XY. Plus rain is fairly common, which means Kabutops/M-Swampert can eat up +2 Quick Attack reliably and proceed to waterlog its oblong face in. And Talonflame is more common now because of how good it is atm, and Pinsir can never beat it in a 1v1 circumstance. It's still a good mon, but i feel like people check it without even taking it into consideration when teambuilding.

I'm a bit mixed on M-Slowbro. It's better than some of the A+ mons but at the same time just as good as a lot of the A mons.

Its Scalds hit surprisingly hard because of it's SpA boost, and its bulk allows it to eat up any physical hit that isn't STAB, boosted or super effective with complete ease (i actually remember thinking i tossed a stall team pretty easily with my M-Gross until i realized that EQ doesn't even do the 20% i needed to knock out M-Slowbro, which cost me the entire game. and so i curled up in a ball and cried a bit). It beats practically all CM users, barring M-Sableye, M-Latias, and Unaware Clef, because of Shell Armor, and has a ridiculously easy time setting up. It even has utility early to mid-game before mega evolving because it still checks a lot of mons in the tier and has Regenerator to gets its health back up so it can CM later, although it not having T-Wave means it can't fully check some mons like Zard X. But there's not much reason to use it over M-Sableye on stall since M-Sableye beats a majority of hazard setters (Spikes + well played Offense = easy win vs stall if matchup is decent), as well as spin blocks for hazard stacking stall, and just supports stall arguably better than M-Venu did early to mid-XY. Plus M-Sableye's bulk also helps it to set up on a shit load of mons if it's CM, and it has the utility of burning anything it wants and priority recovery before it mega evolves and the turn of. Regular Slowbro kinda outclasses M-Slowbro as just a physical wall since it can switch out and get back 33%, whereas M-Slowbro has to directly go for Slack Off to get back HP to check things later on, meaning you have to recover and can't just double if you predict a switch to keep pressuring your opponent. It has its uses but i don't think stall has much of a reason to use it over M-Sableye, and regular Slowbro is kinda more useful on balance since it has T-Wave (assuming you're Calm Mind) and Regenerator. It's still a viable win condition nonetheless but i could see it going either way, though i'm kinda leaning towards dropping it.

 

[TheMohZone]

I think Mega Slowbro Legitimately shit its pants when Contrary Serperior got announced. Sure Serperior isn't that good, but its the best user of Contrary, it'll slot into offense as a kinda pseudo Stallbreaker and Mega Slowbro is the first thing its going to take down.

That said Serperiors a month away so i'll just talk about the current meta, and with stuff like Greninja Running offense and Mega Sableye providing competition for a spot as a stall mega, I feel it needs to drop. As stuff like Celebi getting more popular, Slowbros life is getting Harder and harder. Drop to A, maybe even lower as the opportunity cost of using it means you aren't running Sableye. i personally am fine with A, but dropping it lower is something to consider.

Gengar is far too malleable and the meta unprepared for anything it does to drop.

Landorous main problem is that running it means no Lando-T. otherwise its fine. that said Lando-T is a very easy to use mon for multiple styles so thats a big cost. Greninjas omnipresent Ice Beam does NOT help. Bit inexperienced with it though, Jurys out.

Pinsir is the mega of choice for birdspam, which the Meta is surprisingly unprepared for (Or at least Staraptor, maybe Hawlucha i want to try that out) And a great cleaner after a bird has punched holes in the foes team. while Pidgeot has a niche that it can claim, hitting on the special side, thats never what these teams were meant to do, and Pinsir is far more reliable and harder to stop than Pidgeot. I say keep it A+.

 

[Excalibuwrath]

Gengar should drop to A (personally, I think A-, but that's just me). It hits fairly hard, but it's STABs aren't the best, and it's speed just doesn't cut it anymore. It can't beat any of the new threats except Beedril, and it is still as big priority fodder as ever. The sub-disable set has huge trouble setting up, and the all-out attacker isn't fast enough nor strong enough to justify an A+.
Landorus-I would be A+ for sure if A) 101 speed was still as impressive as it once was and B) Greninja didn't exist. It works as a decent Sheer Force attacker, and it still beats a lot of slower stuff, but the main issue is that Lando-T is generally better and more useful on most teams. It works as a bulky pivot, a revenge killer or a wallbreaker, while Lando-I can only work well as a decent wallbreaker, and most of the A+ and S ranks are better at this. It should go down to A or A-.
Mega-Slowbro is a great staller, definitely great on a bunch of teams, easily sets up on a bunch of threats like Lopunny-M and Gallade-M without Leaf Blade. The problem is that he's too slow to fit on offense and in general, M-Sableye outclasses it on stall. That alone is enough to bump it down to A, but it could stay as A+ depending on how opportunity cost is weighed.
Pinsir-M needs about two things gone: Megagross and Talonflame. If they're gone, your opponent can literally say gg if Pinsir-M gets away an SD. It is so powerful, it might as well be Medicham-M with fewer checks. It can also play some fun mind games with Mega-evolving, like tanking an ice punch from Conkeldur before it evolves to get away an SD. A+ for sure, and I could see it going even to S.

 

[theV8man]

After Salamence's ban, my main man as a pick for my mega was Pinsir. As someone who's used this thing quite extensively, I can assure any doubters that Mega Pinsir is pure Destruction. Pure, unadulterated, R-rated, Destruction. I had to replace my computer screen cause it cracked a bit every time I used Return. Honestly, I'd say it's better than last gen. Stall hasn't really gained any super notable tools against it, anything that doesn't resist it gets screwed. Have you guys ever used the Sub-Flail set as Mega Sableye tries to burn you? Cause that shit makes stall teams look like a group of white pre-teen girls at a Tasti D-Lite cause that shit's SOFT. Seriously, what other Pokemon is OHKO'ing the likes of Mandibuzz, Slowbro, and Hippowdon after a turn of set-up without super-effective moves? But wait! What about all of those new fast and scary megas???
"Oh, you mean all those new megas that get OHKO's by Quick Attack after 2 switches into SR? LOOOOOOOL!" - Mega Pinsir
All of these fast and furious megas help increase Pinsir's viability, this is easy to see if you've used it. Seriously, Mega Pinsir teams are very effective nowadays, and can take on a lot of archetypes. I'd have to say that my favorite part of Pinsir is that it destroys all those flay Baton Pass teams that I tend to see higher up on the ladder. In my opinion, Pinsir is a top-tier threat that is one of the better things in A+ and thus should definitely stay in A+.

Also, is there any particular reason that Crawdaunt didn't get moved up to B+, alexwolf?

 

[p2]

View attachment 32030​

After Salamence's ban, my main man as a pick for my mega was Pinsir. As someone who's used this thing quite extensively, I can assure any doubters that Mega Pinsir is pure Destruction. Pure, unadulterated, R-rated, Destruction. I had to replace my computer screen cause it cracked a bit every time I used Return. Honestly, I'd say it's better than last gen. Stall hasn't really gained any super notable tools against it, anything that doesn't resist it gets screwed. Have you guys ever used the Sub-Flail set as Mega Sableye tries to burn you? Cause that shit makes stall teams look like a group of white pre-teen girls at a Tasti D-Lite cause that shit's SOFT. Seriously, what other Pokemon is OHKO'ing the likes of Mandibuzz, Slowbro, and Hippowdon after a turn of set-up without super-effective moves? But wait! What about all of those new fast and scary megas???
"Oh, you mean all those new megas that get OHKO's by Quick Attack after 2 switches into SR? LOOOOOOOL!" - Mega Pinsir
All of these fast and furious megas help increase Pinsir's viability, this is easy to see if you've used it. Seriously, Mega Pinsir teams are very effective nowadays, and can take on a lot of archetypes. I'd have to say that my favorite part of Pinsir is that it destroys all those flay Baton Pass teams that I tend to see higher up on the ladder. In my opinion, Pinsir is a top-tier threat that is one of the better things in A+ and thus should definitely stay in A+.

Also, is there any particular reason that Crawdaunt didn't get moved up to B+, alexwolf?

This, Mega Pinsir is still an amazing powerhouse, of course it might need a little bit more support with MegaMetagross, Mega Diancie and the like, but once they're gone it just ruins everything, just like it could in XY. I'd support Mega Pinsir staying in A+

Whatever happened to Mega Ampharos aswell? I still think it should be higher than Mega Camerupt

 

[Firebird101]

While MPinsir hits really hard the meta has become well-adjusted to physical attackers, Lando-T is everywhere and while it prays on the MLopunny, MSceptile and MGallade there is also MSlowbro, MMetagross and MDiancie who can come in to it's XY's flagship set. But since MPinsir has EQ this lets it pick it's checks and counters a as it can ditch CC in favor or EQ but I'm not sure it's good development for MPinsir when you have to consider it can't break teams like it as easily it used to so I am leaning to MPinsir drop to A. Still a force to be reckon with of course, just lost more than than gained in ORAS.

 

[Notorious544d]

My thoughts on the proposed drops:

M-Slowbro: Tbh, I'm not 100% sure on this. Surprisingly, I haven't seen it around that much and I'm assuming that it could be because the metagame has adapted to it. It's still a huge pain to deal with if you're unprepared but unlike many other megas, standard Slowbro is really good as it is, and so the opportunity cost for using a mega slot is larger. I'm fine with M-Slowbro dropping to A.

Gengar: A good player using Gengar is such a pain to face. It has such great immunities and if it gets a safe switch in, it can easily make life really difficult. However, I do feel that it's a 'high risk, high reward' Pokemon because it's really frail and it lacks reliable recovery. It has a great movepool and many teams are unprepared for it but I feel that Gengar is only a real threat when played under the right hands because getting a prediction wrong can seriously damage it. Purely for the higher risk associated with using Gengar (when compared to other A+ Pokemon), I support a drop to A.

Landorus-I: I think it's important to remember that Landorus-I is a fantastic wallbreaker that doesn't require a mega slot. Stab, life orb, sheer force Earth Power shreds holes through stall and the ability to boost either speed or SpA (Rock Polish or Calm Mind) is the icing on the cake. Although it does carry an opportunity cost with Landorus-T, Landorus-I is a very different Pokemon and should stay A+.

M-Pinsir: The thing about M-Pinsir is that if your opponent has no checks, it is pretty much GG. Of course, any good team will have a check since popular Pokemon can check it anyway such as Landorus-T, Talonflame, M-Metagross and M-Diancie. But a M-Pinsir team has 5 other Pokemon to dent these threats before M-Pinsir cleans up late game. At late game, It is surprisingly easy to set up an SD because 125 defence is quite bulky and standard Pinsir takes 25% from Stealth Rocks before mega evolving. At +2, Aerilate Return freaking OHKO's 252 HP/252+ Def Slowbro after Stealth Rocks. Also, Aerilate Quick Attack does 75%+ to faster Pokemon like Latios/Terrakion/Gengar etc. A +2 Quick Attack hits AS HARD as +1 Waterfall from M-Gyarados. The irony that the majority of ORAS megas are actually weak to flying (Sceptile, Beedrill, Lopuuny, Gallade) also works in its favour. Lastly, the decreased usage of birdspam checks like scarf-Tyranitar / scarf-magnezone makes M-Pinsir arguably more threatening since the metagame is less prepared for it. Although it needs support, the fact that only specific Pokemon can check M-Pinsir makes it, IMO an A+ threat. It is basically a M-Lucario that needs support, it hits way too hard for it to move down.

I also agree with the notion that M-Altaria should drop to A. To put it simply, it is a jack of all trades Pokemon that requires a mega slot. The DD set is outclassed by M-Charizard, the SpA set is too slow and the bulky sets require too high an opportunity cost. Why use a mega slot for a wall? (that is somewhat outclassed by superior walls like M-Slowbro and M-Sableye). Fairy/Dragon is a fantastic typing but its stats are too underwhelming for a Mega evolution IMO. I think its only in A+ for now since it's still new and shiny but its drop is just a matter of time.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

If you are talking about bulky Dragon Dance Mega Altaria sets, they are considerably underwhelming in almost every aspect; while they check a vast amount of Pokemon, they are really easy to stop. If you want me to concede, then I will, but you cannot continue to say that bulky Dragon Dance Mega Altaria is at all good, because from my experience, it is so easy to stop. Feel free to disagree with me on offensive sets, but the set I was referring to is much overhyped.

EDIT: I may have been acting too rashly in nominating it to drop, but the set I was consistently referring to is very underwhelming, and even from AM's idea of versatility, MAlt 's bulky Dragon Dance set is still is not that hard to stop. I will concede though.

My experience has been the opposite - if you need more than +2 to sweep with Mega Altaria, you're doing something wrong, and that's really not at all hard to do with even a half-assed 252 HP/ At build. You already outspeed virtually all of the metagame's speedy threats at +2 with no speed EVs, and with the sheer number of things that M-Alt walls or checks (the 'vast amount of Pokemon' you refer to), that simply isn't that difficult. If it's so easy to stop, please do tell, what exactly are you using to stop it when it starts boosting?

I also agree with the notion that M-Altaria should drop to A. To put it simply, it is a jack of all trades Pokemon that requires a mega slot. The DD set is outclassed by M-Charizard, the SpA set is too slow and the bulky sets require too high an opportunity cost. Why use a mega slot for a wall? Fairy/Dragon is a fantastic typing but its stats are too underwhelming for a Mega evolution IMO. I think its only in A+ for now since it's still new and shiny but it's drop is just a matter of time.

I could pick this apart, but the bolded section really ought to speak for itself. I guess we should all stop using M-Venusaur and M-Sableye.

 

[tigers jaw]

I also agree with the notion that M-Altaria should drop to A. To put it simply, it is a jack of all trades Pokemon that requires a mega slot. The DD set is outclassed by M-Charizard, the SpA set is too slow and the bulky sets require too high an opportunity cost. Why use a mega slot for a wall? Fairy/Dragon is a fantastic typing but its stats are too underwhelming for a Mega evolution IMO. I think its only in A+ for now since it's still new and shiny but it's drop is just a matter of time.

See my previous post to understand how wrong you are about the defensive sets. Why use Mega Sableye as a wall? Why use Mega Venusaur as a wall? Why use Wisp ZardX as a wall? The answer is: in most cases, there is nothing that does what these defensive megas do. There is no non-mega with one weakness, great bulk, Magic Bounce, Will-o-Wisp, and Calm Mind. There is no (relevant) Fire/Dragon-type with great physical bulk, amazing off-the-bat power that screws over all of its common switchins with WoW and cockblocks Mew. For Mega Venusaur, sure, there's Amoonguss, but it isn't the same - it isn't as bulky and it doesn't take neutral damage from Fire and Ice. Mega Altaria brings a whole lot to the table for defensive teams, as I previously stated. Hell, there are even more things that it checks/counters than I listed. It covers so much stuff with that typing and "underwhelming" bulk in one slot. This is not wasting a mega slot, seeing as nothing handles what it handles, provides cleric support, and can phaze with Roar(yes it gets this lol) all in one slot.

tl;dr if it does what you want it to do and isn't outclassed (like defensive Mega Altaria isn't), you cannot use the "muh opportunity cost" buzzword about it.

edit: in retrospect this post is a bit abrasive. Sorry.

 

[Hootie]

Gengar should not drop, LO 3 attacks + taunt still fucks over defensive and offensive teams alike. Speed tier is not as good, but still good nonetheless. Not much else to say here that others haven't said. A+

Slowbro has one gaping weakness whether you chose CM + Iron Defense or RestTalk, so with him it's kind of pick your poison. Either choose to be weak to stall or offense bascially. Doesn't help that if you are using a defensive Non-CM variant that lose out on Regenerator making him a slightly worse pivot as result. Drop to A.

Landorus is still a fucking threat and can easily rip apart stall teams without SpD Gliscor (which has been much less common) and it's rock Polish sets are still pretty good. Losing Lando-T sucks, but if you are building a HO team and need something to break down stall then Lando-I is your best bet. Let's also remember that Choice Scarf Lando-T which is the most common set for offensive teams is deadweight against stall teams. Keep in A+

The thing that hurts Pinsir's viability the most is Mega Metagross and Mega Diancie making it harder to sweep through offensive teams, but on the other hand it threatens Gallade and Lopunny so atm it's hard to say where to rank him. It's still a great sweeper, but the two aforementioned threats are prominent in the meta so I'm leaning towards dropping him to A.

 

[Immortal]

I'm not sure why this hasn't been brought up yet but personally I think Mega Gardevoir should drop to A. it really just doesn't impress me all that much. First off it is pretty slow. Not only is 100 base speed not very impressive but it doesn't even get it until the turn after if mega evolves. Next up, its physical defense is trash at base 65, which is not a good thing in a meta full of fast powerful physical pokemon and base 68 hp doesn't help either. This also makes it hard to get in safely. The shift hasn't been horrible to it but not great either. Mega Metagross can crush it with meteor mash or BP, Gunk Shot greninja is bad news, Mega and CB scizor (which seems to be getting more use lately) are both a nightmare for it. Sure it hits hard but I'm just not overly impressed and don't really see it as being more effective than Charizard Y who is already in A or Landorus I who might be getting pushed down there soon. I'm not saying it is a bad pokemon or that it isn't effective, I guess I just don't see it as being dominant enough to be ranked on par with some of the other things in A+ right now such as mega Sabeleye, Char X, Mega Gallade etc. the list goes on and on for me. Anyway A Rank seems like a better fit but that is just my take and since I hadn't seen anyone talk about it for a while a figured it was worth bringing up.

 

[TheTraininator]

I'm not sure why this hasn't been brought up yet but personally I think Mega Gardevoir should drop to A. it really just doesn't impress me all that much. First off it is pretty slow. Not only is 100 base speed not very impressive but it doesn't even get it until the turn after if mega evolves. Next up, its physical defense is trash at base 65, which is not a good thing in a meta full of fast powerful physical pokemon and base 68 hp doesn't help either. This also makes it hard to get in safely. The shift hasn't been horrible to it but not great either. Mega Metagross can crush it with meteor mash or BP, Gunk Shot greninja is bad news, Mega and CB scizor (which seems to be getting more use lately) are both a nightmare for it. Sure it hits hard but I'm just not overly impressed and don't really see it as being more effective than Charizard Y who is already in A or Landorus I who might be getting pushed down there soon. I'm not saying it is a bad pokemon or that it isn't effective, I guess I just don't see it as being dominant enough to be ranked on par with some of the other things in A+ right now such as mega Sabeleye, Char X, Mega Gallade etc. the list goes on and on for me. Anyway A Rank seems like a better fit but that is just my take and since I hadn't seen anyone talk about it for a while a figured it was worth bringing up.

This actually has been brought up at least a couple of times, but the general consensus is that it should stay A+. Here's a great post by alexwolf better explaining why it should stay:

Forgot to post this before so here it goes: Mega Gardevoir sgould stay in A+. Many people have suggested that Mega Gardevoir should drop to A due to the influx of all the new MEvos. However, Mega Gardevoir is still an excellent MEvo and still amazing at breaking down stall, while also being one of the best CM Mega Latias checks. Modest Hyper Voice has a 86.7% chance to 2HKO +2 max HP Mega Latias and goes through Sub, while Mega Gardevoir dgaf about Dragon Pulse or Stored Power. Offensive teams got faster, but Mega Gardevoir was outsped by half of your typical offensive team anyway, so i don't think she cares that much. If anything, she appreciates specially based scarfers such as Keldeo and Latios becoming more popular, because she can take advantage of them quite easily. In addition, Mega Gardevoir is a great Mega Sableye check, with Modest Hyper Voice having a 81% chance to OHKO +1 Mega Sableye, and is also a good Sub Mega Sceptile check, a very troubling Pokemon for many offensive teams. So, i think Mega Gardevoir should stay in A+ for now, assuming of course you found her to be A+ rank worthy in XY too.

 

[trc]

This took me a very long time to decide. Like, I legitimately wasn't sure. Landorus, Gengar, Mega Slowbro, and Mega Pinsir are all halfway there, and it was quite difficult to make a judgement call on it. There wasn't even 1 of them that I felt strongly towards. I've read through every post to try and formulate an opinion, and I think I'm there.

Mega Slowbro: A
Gengar: A+
Landorus: A+
Mega Pinsir: A

Landorus is one of the Pokemon I think should be in A+ rank because the standard four attacks and Calm Mind sets are such a threat to stall teams they were they were in early XY. Stall has experienced a massive shift, which we can easily see. Early XY stall was very weak to Landorus, then everyone started running SpD Gliscor and AV Tornadus-T and SpD Dragonite and Landorus was much easier to deal with so it sort of fell into obscurity, but post ORAS stall is so overprepared for all of the new Mega Pokemon that it's often lacking proper Landorus answers which means Landorus can act as the threat to stall that it used to be. However, this wouldn't justify A+ ranking if it didn't have use against other playstyles as well, which it does. Landorus is great against balance and isn't as bad against offense as some think with 4 attacks being very difficult to switch into, and Rock Polish being an underrated cleaner that does amazing at victimizing the strong but frail new Mega Pokemon, and its STAB is amazing against Mega Metagross and Mega Diancie, two of the most common new offensive Mega Pokemon that it beats after a Rock Polish.

I was torn on Gengar because it offers no defensive synergy outside of its immunities but it's very hard to wall and has a wealth of options, and it beats heaps of mons though one more point of speed would be so good ugh. Mega Slowbro has been summarised by alexwolf and Albacore pretty nicely, and Mega Pinsir was hard but ultimately it requires more support than the rest of the Pokemon in A+ rank

 

[Pent]

Don't be mad at me for this, but I think Azumarill should be simply an A.
Azumarill was mainly used to counter/check MegazardX, and since he is mainly outclassed by other megas, I feel Azumarill isn't as good as it used to be.
Greninja getting Gunk Shot was a swift kick in the paw for Azumarill, and it only can Aqua Jet Lando-T and Talonflame, which doesn't even kill a defensive Landorus-Therian.
Here are some calcs for it.


-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 122-146 (31.9 - 38.2%) -- 2.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even Waterfall can't OHKO.


-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 246-290 (64.3 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Since Celebi, Sceptile, Breloom, and Rotom-Wash can either kill it or cripple it, I feel it should be an A.

Feel free to discuss, but this is solely opinion.

I'm reposting this because it is now bottom A+ viability. ^-^