Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[Azuzumiku-chan]

Better defensive stats, slack off, immunity to electric, unaware, haze to eliminate all stat changes, and actually usable offensive power.

Alomolola has the niche of passing gigantic wishes and to not actually worry about its own health because of regenerator . It doesn't have to keep trying to heal itself like sylveon and clefable . I really don't know why you are saying it is outclassed by quagsire :/

 

[thegrovylekid]

You've clearly never used the troll fish, quagsire is used to check physical set up sweepers, Alomamola is used on stall for big wish passing, while not being as reliant on its own wishes thanks to regenerator. Yes it is passive, but stop comparing it to quagsire.

Actually, I used it for a while and it sucked.

 

[Firebird101]

Saying Alomomola is passive is a bit of a understatement. It's only means of attacking are piss-weak scalds, knock off and toxic. Even Chansey with her seismic toss can deal more direct damage xD

So it is quite clear that only stall should use this mon and while it has great durability it's such a set-up bait that it practically gives free switches to any sweeper with substitute so it is pretty hard to use it against offense teams. While I don't have the most experience with it I think it should drop to C+.

 

[JMach]

Well, it's also completely outclassed by Quagsire, who has an excellent ability, as well as an immunity to electric and a wider movepool. Also, scald with base 40 SPA? I'd be better off attacking with just about anything else. Also, alomomola is slower than a MAGIKARP. How is it supposed to get off massive wishes when it gets outspeed and possibly kiled with it's terrible defensive stats?

They have completely different roles. Quag is designed to stop setup sweepers in their tracks with Unaware. It has access to instant recovery, rather than wish, and I'd also argue a better defensive typing, which allows him to stay in vs the more of the threats he's trying to stop, as he's only weak to Grass.

Alom serves as a cleric, wall and wishpasser. Unlike Quag, it's often complete setup bait if you leave it in. It's much more focused around team play, whereas Quag is best at single-handedly roadblocking sweeps.

If you're comparing the two at all, I kind of question your use of Alomomola and why you think it should drop.

 

[blinkie]

Hi, Mola is p much only mon besides Regenerator Chansey and audino that can pass huge Wishes and not have to heal itself cuz of regenerator.
Also mola is so fat it just lives stuff and then fishes for the burn with scald
btw everyone running haze quag is just a dEnIsSsS hater plus he beat a haze quag once so get rekt
and what is better defense stats
4 Atk Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Quagsire: 78-92 (23.5 - 27.7%)
4 Atk Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alomomola: 81-96 (17.1 - 20.3%)
dood have you used mola before...?
<3 mola best setup bait for cm rest goth

 

[strengthofheart]

(B-) --> B
It needs more love than B- to evolve.

I Think sylveon have gotten far better with the ORAS metagame, mostly because hyper offence have gotten worse, it is able to shine through on the playstyle, that is now also arguably the best, balance. Sylveoff have two viable sets, specs and cleric (although cm is also a thing, but very comparable to specs in some ways) it have great mixed bulk, high hp and actually really nice offensive stats too. It is in many ways comparable to clefable, or at least cleric clefable. Sylveon lacks a bit of physical bulk, but fable needs almost maximal investment for this to apply, and on the other hand sylveon have base 130 Spd compared to fables 90 I think this is pretty much made out for. Sylveon also laks rocks, but considering you would already try to fit wish pass and heal bell, sylveon would not have space for rocks anyhow. Sylveon also hits ~35% harder than clef.

It also have the amazing specs set, which does a really good job breaking the checks of its cleric set, such as skarmory and heatran who would get in hoping to get up rocks, just to see themselves getting 2hko'ed by hyper voice and HO ground respectively. It's specs set serves really well on balance like its cleric sister, but is also really amazing on volt turn, where is can act as a strong special wallbreaker, or even give momentum with baton pass.

To put it into perspective, a choice specs sylveon hit harder, with hypervoice than even the special wall breaker mega gardevoir. It's power even comes close to that of mega zard Y.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y: 238-282 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y in Sun: 268-316 (64.4 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

A lot of new mega evolutions in ORAS also lets sylveon spam hypervoice with even more freedom, as it now checks a lot more of the top tier threats! Sylveon have also, unfortunately, gotten some new counters such as mega meta, but checks to these threats can be fit onto most balanced teams, which is already sylveons favorite playstyle.

Well said. One thing that you didn't mention, which happens to be my favorite thing about Sylveon, is its access to Baton Pass. My team loves safe switch-ins and Wish recovery and Sylveon pulls this off better than any other 'mon in the metagame. A set with BP, Calm Mind, Wish, and Hyper Voice can be used mid-game to heal teammates and itself or late game to clean (or assist a teammate to clean).

I also want to vouch for Mega Medicham. Gallade may have access to Swords Dance, but Pure Power allows 'Cham to attack right off the bat without using a turn to set up and freeing up a move slot that would otherwise be occupied by SD, aiding its coverage. Gallade is also a sitting duck against Unaware Clefable, something that Medicham isn't quite as wary of. Medicham should be bumped to at least B- or even B Rank.

 

[Alfalfa]

thegrovylekid Alomomola does have the issue of being extremely passive and being unable to beat Pokemon that it is supposed to check; it cannot even 2HKO Talonflame with Scald without investing in Special Attack. However, it is very difficult to wear down, and provides Wish support, which can be useful for teams that can cover Alomomola's passive nature. While I do agree that Alomomola has some critical flaws, I will not deny its value in being used in select teams. Moving it down a rank or two is possible, but we should be looking it from a perspective on if its traits are even worth redeeming its proposed viability in OU.

 

[Kurona]

I also want to vouch for Mega Medicham. Gallade may have access to Swords Dance, but Pure Power allows 'Cham to attack right off the bat without using a turn to set up and freeing up a move slot that would otherwise be occupied by SD, aiding its coverage. Gallade is also a sitting duck against Unaware Clefable, something that Medicham isn't quite as wary of. Medicham should be bumped to at least B- or even B Rank.

The problem with that is that those are two extremely small niches; and one of those niches is just the ability to beat one possible set of one possible Pokémon. I'd say that fits the C rankings and I'd even argue for it to go drop from C+ to C.

 

[firehusky]

Klefki
B- ==> B

Klefki is a great support mon, with tons of great support moves such as spikes, thunder wave, toxic, dual screens, and rain dance. Prankster allows Klefki to work as a great dual screens setter, and an emergency button to lots of dragon dancers, like zard x, mega gyarados, and mega altaria with prankster t-wave. It's below average bulk is compensated for the fact that it's defensive typing is simply fantastic, giving it 2 immunities, one of which is dragon, allowing it to stop dragon spam teams. Klefki has also recently been seen on rain teams, because spikes helps swift swimmers wear down stall pokemon such as ferrothorn and chansey, while dual screens eases set up for mons like SD kabutops or shell smash omastar. Priority rain dance is also great, making klefki a decent rain setter, in case politoed is fainted or weakened. However, Klefki does not have it's cons. Being a steel type, it is easily trapped by magnezone, which easily disposes of it with thunderbolt, while klefki cannot do anything back except set up screens to slow it's eventual death, or set up spikes. Klefki also lacks reliable recovery, meaning it is easily worn down due to it's bad bulk. Even then, I think that Klefki's pros outshine it's downsides, meaning that it should move up a rank to B.

tl;dr, Klefki has good support moves, is a great dual screener, decent spike stacker, emergency check to dragon dancers, has a really good defensive typing, but is trapped by magnezone and is easily worn down.

 

[blinkie]

I also want to vouch for Mega Medicham. Gallade may have access to Swords Dance, but Pure Power allows 'Cham to attack right off the bat without using a turn to set up and freeing up a move slot that would otherwise be occupied by SD, aiding its coverage. Gallade is also a sitting duck against Unaware Clefable, something that Medicham isn't quite as wary of. Medicham should be bumped to at least B- or even B Rank.

Welp thats like saying Medicham is viable cuz it works well on web
RIP my mega medicham web team
"Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon."
[cough]mega gallade[/cough]

 

[Master B8s]

Actually, I used it for a while and it sucked.

You probably weren't playing stall cause it puts in work with any decent player. If you aren't using it on stall you're using it wrong.

 

[zbr]

You probably weren't playing stall cause it puts in work with any decent player. If you aren't using it on stall you're using it wrong.

To be fair I've used it on balance as well and it works really really well for me (Esp back in XY). It is just dependent on how you play it but one thing is for sure, I don't see a reason why it should drop seeing as it has a very strong niche (being regen + wish + scald) as well as being a convenient switch in on non HP Grass/Grass Knot Greninja.

Edit: I ran a custom spread of 180 HP / 252 Def + / 72 SpDef just for some safer Gren switch ins

 

[xSilentDeviL]

Actually, I used it for a while and it sucked.

It seems a little odd that you "forgot this pokemon even existed until you saw it on this thread"...but then go on to say you "used it for a while" ....


-Honestly, 80 def is mediocre (def not pitiful)... UNTIL you add in the 165 HP, then it's pretty fucking good..

-You seem to have something against the two turn Wish/prefer immediate recovery instead. Even if Mola could learn lets say Recover, it would still rather have Wish to help its teammates. For someone who strives for easy recovery options, i'm surprised u don't mention its ability anywhere in your post in Regenerator, allowing Mola to heal itself by 33% JUST BY SWITCHING OUT.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

Actually, I used it for a while and it sucked.

You 'used it for a while' without having any inkling about what it was used for?

EDIT: Ninja'd.

 

[WideTomato]

Well, it's also completely outclassed by Quagsire, who has an excellent ability, as well as an immunity to electric and a wider movepool. Also, scald with base 40 SPA? I'd be better off attacking with just about anything else. Also, alomomola is slower than a MAGIKARP. How is it supposed to get off massive wishes when it gets outspeed and possibly kiled with it's terrible defensive stats?

Blaziken is also slower than magikarp.

 

[Prinz]

Actually, I think that Quagsire is better than Alomomola because of Unaware which allows it to beat lot of setup sweeepers like Garchomp, Scizor, Terrakion etc. However, I wouldn't drop Alomomola too, as it still is a good choice in Stall teams for the reasons explained above.

 

[theV8man]

Can someone explain to me why Goodra is in C+? Does it provide some kind of specific niche? It has good special bulk and coverage but besides that I don't really see how it is better than any of the other C+ rank Pokemon, who each provide one or more useful or specific roles . Goodra can't really do anything besides sit there and be a mediocre tank. I've never seen it used beyond the low ladder and when I do face it, it kind of just gets worn down and then dies to a physical move. The only good use I could see for this thing is for checking some rain based Pokemon, but even then it's not that useful cause it gets heavily damaged against physical moves/strong ice/dragon moves. Against stall this thing is completely useless lol. And against offense, well, just about everything on that playstyle can KO it.

 

[thegrovylekid]

It seems a little odd that you "forgot this pokemon even existed until you saw it on this thread"...but then go on to say you "used it for a while" ....


-Honestly, 80 def is mediocre (def not pitiful)... UNTIL you add in the 165 HP, then it's pretty fucking good..

-You seem to have something against the two turn Wish/prefer immediate recovery instead. Even if Mola could learn lets say Recover, it would still rather have Wish to help its teammates. For someone who strives for easy recovery options, i'm surprised u don't mention its ability anywhere in your post in Regenerator, allowing Mola to heal itself by 33% JUST BY SWITCHING OUT.

So it can heal itself. My point is, with spikes/stealth rock/Toxic spikes your'e losing 6-25% just to switch back in to heal someone. While it may have it's niches, there's Pokémon like Greninja and Magnezone running around OU and one-shotting every Alomomola around. Yes, you're healing your allies, but what happens when Alomomola runs out of teammates?

Also, I put it on a team 7-9 months ago, stopped using that team, and then saw it on the viability threads and looked through my teams to see if I had used it.

 

[JMach]

So it can heal itself. My point is, with spikes/stealth rock/Toxic spikes your'e losing 6-25% just to switch back in to heal someone. While it may have it's niches, there's Pokémon like Greninja and Magnezone running around OU and one-shotting every Alomomola around. Yes, you're healing your allies, but what happens when Alomomola runs out of teammates?

Also, I put it on a team 7-9 months ago, stopped using that team, and then saw it on the viability threads and looked through my teams to see if I had used it.

I'm really sorry to get arsey, but someone literally explained the use of Regenerator on Alom to you like 10 posts ago... If you're going to start a discussion on whether a Pokemon should drop or not, pay attention to peoples' replies, as it's possible they have more experience using it than you do, or understand better how it should fit and function on a team.

Alom is a sick wishpasser because of ridiculous bulk, good utility movepool (as good as it needs), synergistic defensive typing (bulky waters have always been amazing) and its ability Regenerator WHICH OFFSETS THE DAMAGE IT TAKES ON SWITCHES.

I don't see why it should drop at all.

 

[Master B8s]

So it can heal itself. My point is, with spikes/stealth rock/Toxic spikes your'e losing 6-25% just to switch back in to heal someone. While it may have it's niches, there's Pokémon like Greninja and Magnezone running around OU and one-shotting every Alomomola around. Yes, you're healing your allies, but what happens when Alomomola runs out of teammates?

Also, I put it on a team 7-9 months ago, stopped using that team, and then saw it on the viability threads and looked through my teams to see if I had used it.

Why the hell would I ever bring Mola in on magnezone. If you're ever put in a situation where all your other pokemon are dead and it's just Mola vs magnezone, you were just outplayed and lose from there. And by the way, Specially defensive Mola is one of the few greninja "counters" out there cause grass knot is pretty uncommon. But I won't get into that cause it's already been said in the suspect thread.

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Dugtrio for C/C+

With the ORAS OU metagame, more&more threats such as Mega Gross, Latias or even Pidgeot enjoy having Dugtrio on their team in order to deal with some annoyances for them such as Heatran and various threats that could stop them, allowing them not to run a gimmicky move. Dugtrio in itself didn't get better, just that its use is now more justified due to how some mons can enjoy his presence on a team. I seriously don't get why this thing is D.

 

[AM]

Dugtrio for C/C+

With the ORAS OU metagame, more&more threats such as Mega Gross, Latias or even Pidgeot enjoy having Dugtrio on their team in order to deal with some annoyances for them such as Heatran and various threats that could stop them, allowing them not to run a gimmicky move. Dugtrio in itself didn't get better, just that its use is now more justified due to how some mons can enjoy his presence on a team. I seriously don't get why this thing is D.

Tbh I think the hype has pretty much died down in terms of Dugtrios placement. I mean sure you can trap stuff and revenge kill some threats but at this point it's pretty niche now that it's not on like half the M-Salamence teams with it being banned. Other than those very specific assets which would solidify its placement in D I don't see why I would use this over Wobbuffett or Gothitelle when their abilities are just much more powerful along with added utility besides setting up Rocks, using Reversal, and having Memento. As you said to it hasn't exactly gotten better and using Latias or Pidgeot isn't how you beat Heatran and Metagross runs Hammer Arm anyways which takes care of that threat to it and others so it's not gimmicky.

 

[astroboy]

Also, I put it on a team 7-9 months ago, stopped using that team, and then saw it on the viability threads and looked through my teams to see if I had used it.

just because you used a mon 7-9 months ago, it doesnt mean it has the same viability as it does now. alomomola is now one of the few mons thats able to handle greninja in ORAS, and its gained a slight niche in that. amolo's not that bad of a mon, and is hella good on stall thanks to knock off, regen, and huge wishes. and yeah, its passive as hell, but so are most stall mons, like skarm and chansey. Keep Alo in B-

 

[blinkie]

Drop Seismitoad to C-

After mega Mudkipz came out no one really runs double toeds teams because the small niche Seismitoad actually had with being immune to Thund n mega Man kinda went away now everyone be running Kingdra now for special swiftswimmer. Plus why would you use this with mega Swampert what is synergy, Rotom-W(and mantine) says hi.
Seriously tho Mantine should be D if Jellicent is too

"Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon."

Seismitoad is deadweight outside of rain also requires rain and still faces competition with stuff like Kingdra and Swampert even random stuff like Sceptile(not a bad rain mega) seriously tho this might even deserve D rank. Have to admit tho that it can hit Chesnaught which is helpful for rain mon. Plus stall kinda got revived now 85 spA is trash and a lot of stall mons can just come in and live hits.


Edit: Can someone tell me why Hax R Us Haxorus is C-? How is it not outclassed by any other random OU dragon?

 

[JebusChrist]

Drop Seismitoad to to C-

After mega Mudkipz came out no one really runs double toeds teams because the small niche Seismitoad actually had with being immune to Thund n mega Man kinda went away now everyone be running Kingdra now for special swiftswimmer. Plus why would you use this with mega Swampert what is synergy, Rotom-W(and mantine) says hi.
Seriously tho Mantine should be D if Jellicent is too

"Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon."

Seismitoad is deadweight outside of rain also requires rain and still faces competition with stuff like Kingdra and Swampert even random stuff like Sceptile(not a bad rain mega) seriously tho this might even deserve D rank. Have to admit tho that it can hit Chesnaught which is helpful for rain mon. Plus stall kinda got revived now 85 spA is trash and a lot of stall mons can just come in and live hits.


Edit: Can someone tell me why Hax R Us Haxorus is C-? How is it not outclassed by any other random OU dragon?

Haxorus has Mold Breaker, which lets it Taunt through Magic Bounce and/or set up through Unaware. Obviously not the greatest niche, but C- is pretty low on the list.