Iirc, the niche that meleoetta was ranked for was being a pretty hard stop to gengar, who was an extremely hard pokemon for balanced/semi-stall builds to deal with at the time (and still is now), as melo could take any hit and ohko back with its psychic stab, which is good enough of a niche for a placing in d-rank imo, so id say keep it in d.Still don't know what this thing does lol
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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359
- Thread starter alexwolf
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I don't see how you would put Lopunny to rank S, rank A+ is just perfect for it, M-Lopunny is terrible against stall, it needs support to be really effective.
Don't get me wrong, Mega-lopunny is amazing to play, but we can't simply put every good mega in S rank, by no meaning it is as metagame defining as a Landorus-T or even a Rotom-W which you can fit as a teammate to pretty much every mon and every style and you know what? It's actually ranked A, not even A+ besides being so easy to fit into a team.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
I think the definition should include the fact that you look up the S rank as a "metagame definer", or the mons that can be named to describe the metagame: Greninja is the all-around fast threat that deserves to be suspected, Latios is one of the best defogger in offense, Mega-metagross is a very well-rounded mega, Landorus-T is like the most played pokemon in OU right now, the scarf set being amazing etc. I don't really agree for Thundurus as an S rank because you don't need to have twave in every team like before, since a lot of new threats are slower like Mega Sableye, and that Thundurus is S because he was there and nobody bothered correcting it, A+ is fine for it.
Rotom-w deserves to be A+, or even S, like i said you can fit sit everywhere, the fact that it's easy to "check" (having a switch on volt switch is not what i'd call checking btw) doesn't really matter imo, Heatran was S in DPP as a parallel not for the fact that it could wreck teams easily but for the fact that it was a staple in the metagame and that you could fit it easily in a lot of teams. Rotom-w is amazing, it checks a lot of common threats, (Megagross, Landorus-T, Talonflame, Mega-Pinsir)
the standard Hpump / Volt switch / Pain split / WoW does a fantastic job at both keeping momentum for teams and checking really dangerous threats, (the ones i said before for example) wow/volt switch prevents any type of set-up, there is hardly any drawback to play rotom-w in most of the teams.
So Lopunny stays in A+, Rotom-w deserves to be A+ at least, Thundurus falls down to A+ and I agree that Mega-Sableye deserves an S rank imo.
Don't get me wrong, Mega-lopunny is amazing to play, but we can't simply put every good mega in S rank, by no meaning it is as metagame defining as a Landorus-T or even a Rotom-W which you can fit as a teammate to pretty much every mon and every style and you know what? It's actually ranked A, not even A+ besides being so easy to fit into a team.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
I think the definition should include the fact that you look up the S rank as a "metagame definer", or the mons that can be named to describe the metagame: Greninja is the all-around fast threat that deserves to be suspected, Latios is one of the best defogger in offense, Mega-metagross is a very well-rounded mega, Landorus-T is like the most played pokemon in OU right now, the scarf set being amazing etc. I don't really agree for Thundurus as an S rank because you don't need to have twave in every team like before, since a lot of new threats are slower like Mega Sableye, and that Thundurus is S because he was there and nobody bothered correcting it, A+ is fine for it.
Rotom-w deserves to be A+, or even S, like i said you can fit sit everywhere, the fact that it's easy to "check" (having a switch on volt switch is not what i'd call checking btw) doesn't really matter imo, Heatran was S in DPP as a parallel not for the fact that it could wreck teams easily but for the fact that it was a staple in the metagame and that you could fit it easily in a lot of teams. Rotom-w is amazing, it checks a lot of common threats, (Megagross, Landorus-T, Talonflame, Mega-Pinsir)
the standard Hpump / Volt switch / Pain split / WoW does a fantastic job at both keeping momentum for teams and checking really dangerous threats, (the ones i said before for example) wow/volt switch prevents any type of set-up, there is hardly any drawback to play rotom-w in most of the teams.
So Lopunny stays in A+, Rotom-w deserves to be A+ at least, Thundurus falls down to A+ and I agree that Mega-Sableye deserves an S rank imo.
I believe it also had to deal with Whimsicott having Prankster Memento in XY. Also looks like it has the potential to be a Hard Stop to MegaBro.
On another note
Espeon C -> C-/D (Maybe even Unranked)
I feel like I'm missing something here or its just unspoken that it'll be removed. Baton Pass chains are dead. As a Dual Screener, I rather have Klefki or Latias. As a Magic Bouncer, I rather have M-Sableye or M-Diancie. Calm Mind or even Stored Power user, I rather use Clefable. Its Mono Psychic type which just is not good. I'm definitely missing something here.
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I agree with most of this, but I diasgree with Lopunny being terrible against stall. The Sub+PuP/Sub+Pass set can be pretty devastating with good prediction of status moves, forcing of switches. She always has many opportunities to get in there. A +1 Lopunny can do some serious damage if HJK doesn't miss and you predict protects well. Even if forced out, Lopunny will often find more chances to get in and set up again. Physically defensive Hippowdon has a good chance to be 2HKO'd by +1 Lopunny with HJK after rocks, and the ability to hit everything for neutral damage at +1 can put quite a few holes in stall, as her power is closer to Mega-Medicham after a boost. Furthermore, she puts Sableye right in his place, who is the king of stall teams currently.
The Unaware pokemon at that point become the best stop, but usually you'd have someone to take care of those pokemon. So yes, against stall, the revenge killer isn't nearly as good, but the diversity that Lopunny has makes her extremely problematic for anticipating which set she is running. Personally, I think Sub+PuP is the best, but either way, I still believe she has sets that are more than capable of pulling a lot of weight against stall.
I do not think Alexwolf is going to nudge on Espeon, due to GeoPass teams still being relatively difficult to handle. Personally, I think at least dropping it to C- would be reasonable due to its potency on Baton Pass teams, but until something in the metagame changes that handles this playstyle, I do not think Alexwolf is even going to nudge on Espeon.
I should clarify something before you make these arguments on new Magic Bounce users outclassing Espeon on GeoPass teams: Espeon has STAB Stored Power, which none of the new Magic Bounce users have. Considering that 1 Cotton + 1 Geomancy = 200 Base Power Stored Power, you really cannot make an argument that new Magic Bounce users outclass Espeon on GeoPass teams.
EDIT: I had completely forgotten that Mega Sableye handles GeoPass well if it is running Calm Mind + Dark Pulse, as GeoPass can literally do nothing against set up screens and attempt to set up a Geomancy on it. Regardless, I will let this up for discussion.
I should clarify something before you make these arguments on new Magic Bounce users outclassing Espeon on GeoPass teams: Espeon has STAB Stored Power, which none of the new Magic Bounce users have. Considering that 1 Cotton + 1 Geomancy = 200 Base Power Stored Power, you really cannot make an argument that new Magic Bounce users outclass Espeon on GeoPass teams.
EDIT: I had completely forgotten that Mega Sableye handles GeoPass well if it is running Calm Mind + Dark Pulse, as GeoPass can literally do nothing against set up screens and attempt to set up a Geomancy on it. Regardless, I will let this up for discussion.
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Why is Jellycent even ranked? Because it is a counter to Keldeo?
Anyways Mega Audino and Mega Steelix need to be removed.
Mega Audino is outclassed by non-Mega Pokemon like Chansey, Blissey or Clefable (depending on the role it has to do) and considering that, do you really want to give up a Mega Slot for a dedicated supportive Mega which does not even have a good ability?
And as a Calm Mind Attacker, we have already at least 4 more viable Mega Calm Minder, each of them unique in their own way, and 1 of them is Fairy Typing (Mega Gardevoir) and while Clefable is not as bulky as Mega Audino, it has more staying power thanks to better typing, reliable recover (Wish is not reliable), better abilities and more damage output from the start.
And while the non-Mega Audino has regenerator, what can it do while not being mega evolted? Switch in, do nothing but take damage and switch out? I really don't see it abusing its normal ability nearly as good as things like Gyarados or Sableye do or at least not in OU.
Mega Steelix has no reason to be used over Mega Aggron. Electric Immunity and Secondary STAB seems nice, but at the end it is not worth a physical Mega Tank if you can have T-Wave, Filter, Better Defensive Typing and More Attack. And speaking of Electric Immunity, yes, you can stop volt switching but the main volt switchers in the tier have an answer to the likes of Mega Steelix: Rotom-W has Hydro Pumd or Will-O-Wisp, MegaMan has Overheat, Zapdos has Heat Wave, Thundurus has Focus Blast...I guess you can stop Raikou but thats pretty much it.
Mega Steelix needs to much support to fully function because of the lack of reliable recovery, useless ability, decent attack and very low speed.
Anyways Mega Audino and Mega Steelix need to be removed.
Mega Audino is outclassed by non-Mega Pokemon like Chansey, Blissey or Clefable (depending on the role it has to do) and considering that, do you really want to give up a Mega Slot for a dedicated supportive Mega which does not even have a good ability?
And as a Calm Mind Attacker, we have already at least 4 more viable Mega Calm Minder, each of them unique in their own way, and 1 of them is Fairy Typing (Mega Gardevoir) and while Clefable is not as bulky as Mega Audino, it has more staying power thanks to better typing, reliable recover (Wish is not reliable), better abilities and more damage output from the start.
And while the non-Mega Audino has regenerator, what can it do while not being mega evolted? Switch in, do nothing but take damage and switch out? I really don't see it abusing its normal ability nearly as good as things like Gyarados or Sableye do or at least not in OU.
Mega Steelix has no reason to be used over Mega Aggron. Electric Immunity and Secondary STAB seems nice, but at the end it is not worth a physical Mega Tank if you can have T-Wave, Filter, Better Defensive Typing and More Attack. And speaking of Electric Immunity, yes, you can stop volt switching but the main volt switchers in the tier have an answer to the likes of Mega Steelix: Rotom-W has Hydro Pumd or Will-O-Wisp, MegaMan has Overheat, Zapdos has Heat Wave, Thundurus has Focus Blast...I guess you can stop Raikou but thats pretty much it.
Mega Steelix needs to much support to fully function because of the lack of reliable recovery, useless ability, decent attack and very low speed.
Cofagrigus has one use and one use only, and that is trickroom. It can set it up reliably and can even sweep in it, imo enough of a niche for D
Meloetta is mainly used as a sub stall breaker. look up ifenrear replays
think both of these are worth at least d rank
Meloetta is mainly used as a sub stall breaker. look up ifenrear replays
think both of these are worth at least d rank
I recall the Meloetta set that pushed it to D Rank being an Assault Vest set, due to Meloetta being unusually strong for a passable Assault Vest user while still being reasonably bulky. Also, Meloetta has a rare ability to beat Life Orb Gengar, which most teams, aside from stall, cannot find a suitable Pokemon to handle.
Why not quote the actual people who made the comment instead of just posting that there? Last I checked it was D ranked and sitting just fine as a sub-par wish/calm mind user.
alexwolf was last seen: Wednesday at 12:29 PM
Ok so I don't think you're gonna get an answer by tagging him when he's probably been enjoying the luxury of the holidays and life not sitting at our computers like we are
. I'll go ahead and answer some things that have been brought to the best of my abilities.
Mega Audino: Ok unfixable I know you want this ranked for some so called niche that it has but quite frankly sitting on your ass not providing any real support except acting as a buffer for certain hits, which is what M-Audino does, doesn't exactly apply as a niche. Sure it has Regenerator but when you look at the fact that we have plenty of capable Regenerator users, walls, and defensive pivots there's not a huge reason to use your mega just for the sake of this. It's not even just the fact it's outclassed by Clefable, it sort of isn't in some aspects, but it's the fact that it's literally a team + a brick when you use M-Audino, M-Audino being the brick and its roles are more suited to non megas anyways.
Flygon: I asked alexwolf to unrank it cause tbh these niches are overrated and Haunter even locked a thread on it earlier the past weeks because it's such a mediocre mon in general. If people want to use it by all means go ahead but I can't really ever find myself in a situation where I'll tell a newer player to seriously consider using Flygon.
M-Lopunny: Offense hates fighting this thing, and I mean HATES taking this thing. Its speed tier is at the level of M-Manectric but with more power and utility to boot. That power alone is forcing a bunch of OHKOs after rocks against offense, OHKOs and 2HKOs on Balance, and sure it doesn't beat stall right off the bat but when it's able to handle the poster boy of Stall M-Sableye and utility moves such as SubPass that hinders Stall performance or threatens it with partners such as BD Azu, I don't see how you can highlight this as such an extreme negative. Those last two moveslots are key to its viability because it makes it that much more of a threat and the fact that you can play this card at key moments to turn the tide to your favor and get momentum is huge. This can be as simple as the subpass set, to using a heal bell when you've become status'd while your opponent thinks they're in the clear for a switch or a boosting move, or the Pup + Drain Punch set to maintain its longevity.
Rotom-W: Usage =/= viability 100% of the time and this is one of those cases where Rotom-W shouldn't rise to A+. As much as people think this is annoying it really is pretty basic to wear down and its key positive is the momentum it is able to grab. If for whatever reason it fails to grab this momentum, that's simply a wasted turn and tbh this can happen more often than not through double switches and natural immunities / resistances. Rotom-W is a shitty check to M-Gross for the fact it's 2HKO by Zen Headbutt and has to go for a burn and potentially sack itself to be even useful in this situation, also just loses to Sub M-Gross. Lando-T in most scenarios is just free momentum for Rotom-W through U-Turn, so it's a momentary stop to it and not an answer to it. Rotom-W gets worn down in the long run and granted it's one of the best Tflame checks but it isn't exactly that difficult for it to get worn down for Talonflame to finish it off late-game. Takes a ton from +2 Close Combat by M-Pinsir Idk how you call this a check to this on a consistent basis.It's fine in A.
Espeon: Don't drop this thing. Baton Pass is still annoying as ever and Espeon plays a keyrole in why it's cancer to play against.
Cofagrigus: One of the most trolly abilities against teams that are more than like to have half the team catered to physical offense, think M-Gross and M-Lopunny. Also has some useful traits such as Magic Coat to allow itself to be an anti-hazard against such Rock setters such as Lando-T and Ferrothorn. It's fine in D.
Ok so I don't think you're gonna get an answer by tagging him when he's probably been enjoying the luxury of the holidays and life not sitting at our computers like we are
. I'll go ahead and answer some things that have been brought to the best of my abilities.Mega Audino: Ok unfixable I know you want this ranked for some so called niche that it has but quite frankly sitting on your ass not providing any real support except acting as a buffer for certain hits, which is what M-Audino does, doesn't exactly apply as a niche. Sure it has Regenerator but when you look at the fact that we have plenty of capable Regenerator users, walls, and defensive pivots there's not a huge reason to use your mega just for the sake of this. It's not even just the fact it's outclassed by Clefable, it sort of isn't in some aspects, but it's the fact that it's literally a team + a brick when you use M-Audino, M-Audino being the brick and its roles are more suited to non megas anyways.
Flygon: I asked alexwolf to unrank it cause tbh these niches are overrated and Haunter even locked a thread on it earlier the past weeks because it's such a mediocre mon in general. If people want to use it by all means go ahead but I can't really ever find myself in a situation where I'll tell a newer player to seriously consider using Flygon.
M-Lopunny: Offense hates fighting this thing, and I mean HATES taking this thing. Its speed tier is at the level of M-Manectric but with more power and utility to boot. That power alone is forcing a bunch of OHKOs after rocks against offense, OHKOs and 2HKOs on Balance, and sure it doesn't beat stall right off the bat but when it's able to handle the poster boy of Stall M-Sableye and utility moves such as SubPass that hinders Stall performance or threatens it with partners such as BD Azu, I don't see how you can highlight this as such an extreme negative. Those last two moveslots are key to its viability because it makes it that much more of a threat and the fact that you can play this card at key moments to turn the tide to your favor and get momentum is huge. This can be as simple as the subpass set, to using a heal bell when you've become status'd while your opponent thinks they're in the clear for a switch or a boosting move, or the Pup + Drain Punch set to maintain its longevity.
How exactly does it not even fit this role? >_>
Rotom-W: Usage =/= viability 100% of the time and this is one of those cases where Rotom-W shouldn't rise to A+. As much as people think this is annoying it really is pretty basic to wear down and its key positive is the momentum it is able to grab. If for whatever reason it fails to grab this momentum, that's simply a wasted turn and tbh this can happen more often than not through double switches and natural immunities / resistances. Rotom-W is a shitty check to M-Gross for the fact it's 2HKO by Zen Headbutt and has to go for a burn and potentially sack itself to be even useful in this situation, also just loses to Sub M-Gross. Lando-T in most scenarios is just free momentum for Rotom-W through U-Turn, so it's a momentary stop to it and not an answer to it. Rotom-W gets worn down in the long run and granted it's one of the best Tflame checks but it isn't exactly that difficult for it to get worn down for Talonflame to finish it off late-game. Takes a ton from +2 Close Combat by M-Pinsir Idk how you call this a check to this on a consistent basis.It's fine in A.
Espeon: Don't drop this thing. Baton Pass is still annoying as ever and Espeon plays a keyrole in why it's cancer to play against.
Cofagrigus: One of the most trolly abilities against teams that are more than like to have half the team catered to physical offense, think M-Gross and M-Lopunny. Also has some useful traits such as Magic Coat to allow itself to be an anti-hazard against such Rock setters such as Lando-T and Ferrothorn. It's fine in D.
Mr. Hothead
formerly Salt2DaFeds
In all seriousness, since the Viability thread is serious business, I wanna talk about Talonflame. I really want to see it in S rank, but then again thats crazy as it has a decent amount of flaws that prevent that. But this guy is quite frankly one of the best revenge killers in OU if we chop out Greninja from the argument. Talonflame sadly suffers from a x4 Rocks weakness and not the best defenses, but then again he does have a pretty good Defensive and Offensive typing. Basically hitting every type except Rock Types hard, he is a huge defining force in the meta. I honestly think this guy should stay in A+ (and probably will be in A+ for awhile) What do you guys think?
No, we will just start over and apply changes to the list we will have by then.
And we could drop Espeon one subrank lower as Mega Sableye was a big nerf to Baton Pass strategies, forcing Espeon to run Dazzling Gleam and either forfeit protection against crits with Sub or healing with Morning Sun.
And sorry for inactivity guys, but i am enjoying my holidays ;D
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Ok i think its time this needs to be fixed z_z
AV tangrowth is fantastic and underrated as hell, it checks a metric ton of crap and has a wide movepool to help it lure a variety of things, as well as decent offensive presence in general.
Lets see what this baby checks off the bat: Landorus, Thundurus, Azumarill, Keldeo, Breloom, dragonite, garchomp, excadrill, tyranitar, Mega gyarados, raikou, rotom-w, lando-t, Terrakion, Diggersby, Mega Diancie, non ice beam Manaphy, Mega manectric, non bug-bite mega scizor, mega sharpedo, kabutops and mega swampert.
Yeah.
Just take that in.
Of course, you need some specific moves to cover everything i've listed, like hp ice for dragonite/garchomp, and you can't check sludge wave landorus or hp flying thundurus, Cb azu, SD LO loom, CB nite, LO iron head flinches from exca, CB fire punch ttar, Specs HP ice from raik, CB CC terrak, LO diggers, and ice fang pedo all annoy tangrowth, so needless to say there are a few sets that these pokemon can carry to blow past tangrowth, but as i said, it CHECKS, not COUNTERS all of these pokemon (that'd be insane)
And it does indeed counter a good chunk of these pokemon, like mega diancie, raikou (earthquake), swampert, rotom-w, mega sharpedo, mega gyarados, keldeo, kabutops, and non-ice beam mana are all pretty much hard countered by tangrowth.
Oh but of course, the fun doesn't end there. Tangrowth can use moves like knock off, hidden power ice, hidden power fire, rock slide, and earthquake (giga drain is mandatory) to lure and check a variety of crap. Rock slide lures in talon, eq lures heatran, hp fire lets u beat ferro and lures scizor, etc etc. Your power isn't fantastic but you deal enough damage that the mons are nearly useless anyways. not to mention you get to choose 3 of those 5, not one or something.
Also, if you decided to not like assault vest, you can just run sleep powder with leftovers, so while you dont' check as much shit as you do with AV, sleep powder gives tangrowth a whole other dimension you need to worry about. It could eq your tran, but if you wanted to scout that, it could put ur lati to sleep for example. Its obnoxious to play around, to say in the least.
And last but not least, you have regenerator, which heals you back up when you switch. Unfortunately, you're forced out quite often because you lack the power to OHKO your targets, but regenerator in itself is a boon for tangrowth as an AV user, as you can absorb u-turns and volt switches for days for your team and not worry about hazards too much.
needless to say, tangrowth checks and lures an incredible amount of stuff for balanced teams (where i'd use it), so it definitely deserves B, if not B+
(btw i used 248 hp/56+ def/204 sdef for my calcs, i don't remember what 56+ does but its something important lol)
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I think he's like the Rotom-W of A+. He's definitely good, overused, easy to put on most offensive teams, and can run plenty of sets (is SpDef WoW still a thing?) but is reaaaaally hindered by Stealth Rocks. It's crappy bulk will rarely allow it to Roost after Stealth Rock and it wears itself out pretty hard with its STABs. I think he's top tier A+ but not S material.
In all seriousness, since the Viability thread is serious business, I wanna talk about Talonflame. I really want to see it in S rank, but then again thats crazy as it has a decent amount of flaws that prevent that. But this guy is quite frankly one of the best revenge killers in OU if we chop out Greninja from the argument. Talonflame sadly suffers from a x4 Rocks weakness and not the best defenses, but then again he does have a pretty good Defensive and Offensive typing. Basically hitting every type except Rock Types hard, he is a huge defining force in the meta. I honestly think this guy should stay in A+ (and probably will be in A+ for awhile) What do you guys think?
Then again, Zard X got to S rank even when requiring Stealth Rock to be off the field (but he had better bulk for recovering).
Honestly I don't think we should add many mons to S-rank. In fact, we might want to look at dropping a couple mons from S-rank because it is only meant for elite Pokemon, and I don't want an inflated S-rank. Thundurus may not be as viable with Greninja gone, and I think it deserves to be A+ rank. I think the rest of the mons there are S-rank material. If mega lopunny goes to S-rank like so many people want, then there's gonna be a push to get mega gallade, mega sableye, mega altaria, landorus-i, talonflame, and other mons into S-rank that really don't belong there. Bottom line, I don't really want to see ten S-rank mons at the end of ORAS that I don't feel deserve to be there. A+ rank and S-rank are two different ranks for a reason.
I'd like to move Blastoise (Mega) down to C-. Blastoise faces a lot of competition with other Rapid Spinners and Defoggers, as every other viable Pokémon that runs these moves is ranked higher on the viability rankings. Mega Blastoise's job became even more difficult in the transition to Ω Ruby / A Sapphire, since now there are at least 9 new Mega Evolutions that are all A- rank or higher (Counting all Megas C+ or higher, I got 15). Mega Blastoise now faces an extremely high opportunity cost when used, as it means you can't use a far more viable and reliable Mega Evolution. On its own, for one of the bulkiest, if not the bulkiest, Rapid Spin Pokémon, Blastoise has no means of reliable recovery, meaning its time on the field is short lived when used incorrectly. All in all, while Blastoise has high bulk and a good niche, its opportunity cost has now gotten even higher, and competition is as high as ever, which is why I suggest moving it down to C-.
M Pidgeot should move up. Base 110 [165 with STAB] Hurricane that can't miss is really good.The problem I've found with it [and M Beedrill] is that you usually fave to waste a Protect to
also, while reading the thread, I noticed that someone said Zygarde got DDance and ESpeed. Do you know a better Pokemon that gets that?
More on this ^ Later.
I completely agree with the Mega Pidgeot argument here.Yeet yeet, here we go
C- ----------> C+ / B-
At first, Mega Pidgeot may not seem like much. It has a medicore typing while wasting your Mega Slot. However, that's about all of its flaws. Mega Pidgeot has a very spamable move in Hurricane. Hurricane is 110 base power with a chance of confusion, with quite literally no drawbacks. It also has Heat Wave, so things like Ferrothorn and Skarmory don't wall you. Being able to use this move and never have to worry about it missing is a great feeling. Mega Pidgeot also has a very sexy 135 Special Attack stat with a great speed tier of 121. This is only one point lower than Greninja. (And once Greninja is banned, that's one less threat.) Mega Pidgeot also has nice bulk for a sweeper, have 83 / 80 / 80 bulk. Mega Pidgeot does have its downsides, as Stone Edge and Blizzard (lol) will never miss, but that's one of its few flaws. Mega Pidgeot is one of the single best late game sweepers in the current meta, and it deserves to move up.
252 SpA Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 171-202 (56.6 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 331-390 (62.5 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
EDIT: I'm also doing this because it needs to happen
also, while reading the thread, I noticed that someone said Zygarde got DDance and ESpeed. Do you know a better Pokemon that gets that?
More on this ^ Later.
Probably cause it had been unable to move up due to the discussions of by ranking stuff as to now it can be considered to move up. Can be wrong but its probably just cause havent gotten to it.
It was me who talked about Zygarde.
Zygarde also has Coil and Glare. That's the advantage it has over Dragonite. (It's also a little bit faster, bulkier and it resists Stealth Rocks)
Time for Round 2.
Gorebyss: D -> Stay in D
Forgot this one earlier but it can probably stay, since pulling a SmashPass against more passive teams isn't that hard and it has new recipients like Mega Diancie.
Jellicent: D -> Unranked
The only reason I can think of to use this thing is to hard counter Keldeo, and there are several better mons that already do that like Celebi if it doesn't have Specs HP Flying (which it doesn't carry when HP Electric is better and Mega Venusaur isn't as common right now), Gyarados if you don't get burnt, and (Mega) Slowbro. Being weak to Knock Off on top of being setup fodder for Sub Mega Gyarados, Manaphy, and Mega Charizard X doesn't help.
Meloetta: D -> ???
I literally have no idea what her niche is, but someone mentioned being a Gengar counter if you run AV (which sounds good enough to keep since it's not like you need your support movepool anyway).
Metagross: D -> Unranked or Stay in D
AV set sounds decent on paper, but I've never seen it used successfully and you're giving up Mega Metagross to do so.
Salamence: D -> D
Scarf gets an unnecessarily bad rap and is a passable lategame cleaner with Moxie and Magnezone support. Not the best thing ever but definitely usable.
Mega Steelix: D -> Unranked
Mega Aggron exists.
Venomoth: D -> Stay in D
Like Gorebyss, it can actually be threatening against more passive teams and you have new QuiverPass recipients. Wonder Skin also lets you BS your way past Taunts and T-Waves from Thundurus.
Whimsicott: D -> Stay in D
It's used in that GeoPass team that we need to kill ASAP.
Other shit I agree with is dropping Espeon to D and moving Mega Lopunny to S.
Gorebyss: D -> Stay in D
Forgot this one earlier but it can probably stay, since pulling a SmashPass against more passive teams isn't that hard and it has new recipients like Mega Diancie.
Jellicent: D -> Unranked
The only reason I can think of to use this thing is to hard counter Keldeo, and there are several better mons that already do that like Celebi if it doesn't have Specs HP Flying (which it doesn't carry when HP Electric is better and Mega Venusaur isn't as common right now), Gyarados if you don't get burnt, and (Mega) Slowbro. Being weak to Knock Off on top of being setup fodder for Sub Mega Gyarados, Manaphy, and Mega Charizard X doesn't help.
Meloetta: D -> ???
I literally have no idea what her niche is, but someone mentioned being a Gengar counter if you run AV (which sounds good enough to keep since it's not like you need your support movepool anyway).
Metagross: D -> Unranked or Stay in D
AV set sounds decent on paper, but I've never seen it used successfully and you're giving up Mega Metagross to do so.
Salamence: D -> D
Scarf gets an unnecessarily bad rap and is a passable lategame cleaner with Moxie and Magnezone support. Not the best thing ever but definitely usable.
Mega Steelix: D -> Unranked
Mega Aggron exists.
Venomoth: D -> Stay in D
Like Gorebyss, it can actually be threatening against more passive teams and you have new QuiverPass recipients. Wonder Skin also lets you BS your way past Taunts and T-Waves from Thundurus.
Whimsicott: D -> Stay in D
It's used in that GeoPass team that we need to kill ASAP.
Other shit I agree with is dropping Espeon to D and moving Mega Lopunny to S.
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While what you said it's right, I don't think that Blastoise got completely worse in ORAS. Yes of course it has now even more competition as a mega, but that happened for all the mega we already had. However, I think that Blastoise has still its own niches and even if it isn't the best mega for sure, it's still quite viable. At first, it's the only one Rapid Spin user, bar Analytic Starmie that has the fire power to get past of Mega Sableye which isn't bad at all, it has also some good coverage moves that allows it to be somewhat dangerous for any balanced building. Dark Pulse hits Mew, regular Slowbro and Mega Slowbro hard, and Aura Sphere hits Ferrothorn to make some examples. I'm not saying that it's good and people should use it, but it has its own niches for sure and its dropping isn't obvious as many people could think. Also, if we should always consider the "it has competition with other megas it's bad" we should probably drop every mega bar 3-4 ones. Even Charizard-X is less consistent than Mega Lopunny, but it's still a top threat. Mega Slowbro is outclassed by Mega Sableye in Stall teams, but it's still a top threat, therefore I wouldn't apply this argument without considering if the mega itself got really worse in the time. Just to finish my post, I would also say that I wouldn't be mad if we drop Mega Blastoise, but in terms of viability I can't really see things like Regular Alakazam, Thundurus-T and Infernape being more viability than it, even if Mega Blastoise doesn't allow you to have one more mega in your team.
His niche isn't really trying to emulate Dragonite with a different typing and stats but rather his sub-coil set which fits in very well with defensive teams and provides a very solid win condition, it can be very hard to stop once it gets going.
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