np: UU Stage 1 - Changes

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Yeah I actually am not sure if I would go for Dragon Dance; I'd either go for CB or Rock Polish. CB to run through defensive teams and Rock Polish to do decently against offense. I feel like Dragon Dance is an awkward middle ground that doesn't really perform extraordinarily against offense because it's outsped by Scarfers and faster Pokemon like Mega Sceptile after a boost, while not quite having enough power to KO defensive Pokemon that it wants to. I actually tried Rock Polish Tyrantrum recently before the Rock Head stuff and it was surprisingly not terrible, and I think the extra power provided by Head Smash will help it even more. I'd recommend this set:

WIDE LEFT (Tyrantrum) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

EVs outspeed Scarf Mienshao after a boost. Coverage is really good and hits a lot of offensive Pokemon super effectively, and there aren't really too many other moves it should be running anyway. It's got respectable physical defense, enough to set up easily against some common Pokemon. Obviously best saved for late game after things have a bit of prior damage. Even with a Jolly nature, it's still powerful enough to clean up offense.
Crunch allows it to hurt Bronzong pretty badly.

The one big qualm I still have with Head Smash is that it's basically a stronger Stone Miss (1.5x stronger to be exact). tbh it Head Smash sounds like a Hustle durant-esque situation where accuracy on your bread-and-butter severely affects your reliability.
 
Yeah I actually am not sure if I would go for Dragon Dance; I'd either go for CB or Rock Polish. CB to run through defensive teams and Rock Polish to do decently against offense. I feel like Dragon Dance is an awkward middle ground that doesn't really perform extraordinarily against offense because it's outsped by Scarfers and faster Pokemon like Mega Sceptile after a boost, while not quite having enough power to KO defensive Pokemon that it wants to. I actually tried Rock Polish Tyrantrum recently before the Rock Head stuff and it was surprisingly not terrible, and I think the extra power provided by Head Smash will help it even more. I'd recommend this set:

WIDE LEFT (Tyrantrum) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

EVs outspeed Scarf Mienshao after a boost. Coverage is really good and hits a lot of offensive Pokemon super effectively, and there aren't really too many other moves it should be running anyway. It's got respectable physical defense, enough to set up easily against some common Pokemon. Obviously best saved for late game after things have a bit of prior damage. Even with a Jolly nature, it's still powerful enough to clean up offense.
Considering that the EdgeQuake combo is often good enough for sweeping, a double dance set of Hone Claws/Dragon Dance over Dragon Claw can also be an option for scenarioes where power is valued over the speed.
 
Considering that the EdgeQuake combo is often good enough for sweeping, a double dance set of Hone Claws/Dragon Dance over Dragon Claw can also be an option for scenarioes where power is valued over the speed.
Yeah, but what situation he shines best with prefered the pure Choice band set to hard since start, or choosing the double dance?
 
Double Dance doesn't sound terribly viable to me. He still suffers too much in the speed department, while a Pokemon like Haxorus doesn't nearly as much, and really needs to commit fully to a strategy to succeed. Rock Polish, Dragon Dance, Choice Band, maybe Hone Claws all are trying to do one thing really well, and they have a chance to succeed. Spreading a Pokemon's already thin talents out is a recipe for disaster.

Look at it this way: We've got some S-rank Pokemon that rarely, if ever, try to do more than one thing at a time. Jirachi doesn't try to act as a defensive pivot and revenge killer at the same time. Jirachi might act as a defensive pivot and then paralyze offensive threats to neuter them, but that's not the same thing.

And when was the last time you saw Double Dance Haxorus really tear shit up?
 

kokoloko

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okay, diancite has been deemed BL by a unanimous council vote and the next retest will be medichamite. these changes will be up on the ladder by the end of today.

we will also be doing a council-only test for shadow tag--reasoning being that its effects are, for the most part, only seen in high-level play, so putting it on the ladder wouldn't help anyone determine anything.

i haven't yet decided how we're going to go about testing drizzle and drought; but i plan to have a council meeting about it.

once the medichamite test ends and we reach a decision regarding the three abilities, UU will be moving on to a more traditional form of suspect testing. meaning we will be allowing anyone who qualifies on the ladder to vote on future suspect tests. of course, the list of "yet to be tested" BLs will be all done by then, but we could very well test some again and there will almost certainly be stuff dropping from OU that needs testing, and everyone will have the opportunity to qualify for them. the council will serve to determine what should be suspected and when, and will be allowed to vote without qualifying on the ladder

that is all.
 
okay, diancite has been deemed BL by a unanimous council vote and the next retest will be medichamite. these changes will be up on the ladder by the end of today.

we will also be doing a council-only test for shadow tag--reasoning being that its effects are, for the most part, only seen in high-level play, so putting it on the ladder wouldn't help anyone determine anything.

i haven't yet decided how we're going to go about testing drizzle and drought; but i plan to have a council meeting about it.

once the medichamite test ends and we reach a decision regarding the three abilities, UU will be moving on to a more traditional form of suspect testing. meaning we will be allowing anyone who qualifies on the ladder to vote on future suspect tests. of course, the list of "yet to be tested" BLs will be all done by then, but we could very well test some again and there will almost certainly be stuff dropping from OU that needs testing, and everyone will have the opportunity to qualify for them. the council will serve to determine what should be suspected and when, and will be allowed to vote without qualifying on the ladder

that is all.
Took long enough.

Anyway, Medichamite is definitely going to be centralizing for the UU metagame. Traditional fighting checks such as Crobat and such are at a severe disadvantage with the Dual Fighting/Psychic STAB. Definitely expecting Cresselia, Celebi, and other defensive-oriented Psychic types to increase in usage during Medichamite's reign.

EDIT: Expect double Fighting cores to become a thing now.
 
I think the only problem with mega medicham is its speed, because it's fairly slow compared to other mons. I think the test is dependant how well the tier in general can capitalize on that weakness. Spiritomb is a great counter to medi and will find itself on many teams in the following weeks
 
Kinda surprised Diancite was banned, I never had any trouble with it :S

I'm pretty sure Mega-cham will get the boot. Two of its best counters, Slowbro and Mew, were banned a while back, and I'm not sure that Mega-Cham will be too easy to deal with (for defensive teams). It has that nice base 100 speed to outspeed a decent portion of the unboosted meta, but we'll see!
 
Kinda surprised Diancite was banned, I never had any trouble with it :S

I'm pretty sure Mega-cham will get the boot. Two of its best counters, Slowbro and Mew, were banned a while back, and I'm not sure that Mega-Cham will be too easy to deal with (for defensive teams). It has that nice base 100 speed to outspeed a decent portion of the unboosted meta, but we'll see!
I am more surprised it received such unanimity in voting, not so much that it was banned. Then again nothing to cry over since she was moving up to OU by usage anyway, so not much of a loss really. Especially now that they are finally seeing the threat of Protect + 3 attacks.

Well Mega-cham is sorta a mixed bag since as noted by Volbeat Spiritomb and Granbull have gained popularity since. Moreover, we do have more choices of megas for him to compete with or capable to dealing with him, mega pidgeot especially is a great check. Then again I think substitute sets were rather popular with him before?
 
Mega Aero, Reuni and Spiritomb just got a lot more usage.

How long will the medichamite test last does the council think?

I think somebody hit the point directly, slowbro and mew were great checks when it was last in UU. With those two gone, we have to find mons that can switch in safely. But, another thing to note is that there is no Scolipede to BP speed and SD boosts like last time. So, its stuck at that base 100 speed. Mega beedrill and Aero are the safest checks. Protect Beedrill definitely.

Good riddance to Diancite. Magic Bounce and those attacking stats are just stupid
 
Ive been playing around with a core of Empoleon Swords Dance Baton Pass celebi and M-Medi. Empo is a great offensive rocker and has great syngergy with Celebi which not only checks Medi, but can boost and sweep it self or pass to Medi. If Medi gets boosts things die, straight up. Im using a dual priority set on it, fake out plus bp are strong together and useful by them selves in many situations. But yeah this things is irrevocably broken, lets hurry up with this test.
 

Hogg

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I've been using Ice Punch to combat Celebi, but I could definitely see times when Bullet Punch would have been handy.

I tossed together a quick team with MMedi, Doublade, Crobat, Raikou, Shaymin and Pert, and it has been doing pretty well. Just your basic offensive VoltTurn core with Medicham as a wallbreaker, and Doublade and Crobat to combat opposing fighting spam.

Doublade in general seems super useful right now. It checks any Medicham lacking Fire Punch (which does not OHKO), and switches in to things like Crobat and MAero with ease. It's also a nice answer to Scarfrachi, although again watch out for Fire Punch - it's only a 3HKO at best, but the burn chance is pretty annoying. Against stall it has a free switch-in and SD against things like Blissey, thanks to its immunity to Toxic and Toss and the fact that it hardly cares about paralysis.
 
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I'm only going to make one post on Megacham.

I currently am running a team that I made for Thisbemyalt that I'm enjoying myself with dual birds (mega aero and crobat). They both reliably revenge kill megacham even though I don't have a "switchin". Megacham doesnt struggle with any playstyle except for stall with multiple bulky psychics or a bulky psychic + spiritomb. If stall only runs Reuniclus or only runs Cress to check it those mons get worn down and take 35% or so from a HJK which is kinda absurd.
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 168-198 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery- yeah no.
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 123-145 (27.7 - 32.6%) -- 78.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery- with a medium roll (30%) that mon is taking 42% after rocks. Both of these mons have to stay at maximum health the whole game or Megacham just beats stall. Moving on to other playstyles:

Offense is basically fucked to dual priority megacham, fake out hurts like hell and fake out + bp is capable of killing many offensive mons on its own. Just to show a calc against a common offensive mon:
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 106-125 (36.1 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Megacham is capable of rendering an entire win condition useless on offense. If an offense team is using a setup mon, say NP infernape since the calc is already there, and that mon has to take a hit to sweep later on, megacham picks off those mons and so much else on offense. Also to say all the switchins to Megacham are super passive and dont fit on offense, all spiritomb does is Pursuit Trap/ Sucker Punch ghosts/psychics and willo (some) physical attackers, and cress and reuniclus dont fit on offense at all lol. If you're running hyper offense you need to constantly apply pressure to it or it comes in on something slower (and there is plenty slower, it sits at a beautiful speed tier of 100 which speed ties with a bunch of common shit, see cm rachi, sd celebi which is easily 2hkod by HJK and outspeeds stuff like Adamant Entei and LO Hydreigon) and gets a kill, no questions asked. The fact that it 2hkos LITERALLY every pokemon in the tier that doesn't resist HJK with said move is kinda insane. Moving on to balance:

Standard balance cores are ripped apart. The most common florges spread is easily 2hkod by HJK and zen does way too much, Crobat is brutally butchered by ZHB, and Swampert is easily 2HKO'd. Balance HAS to run spiritomb/doublade/cress/reuni (notice how all those mons are RU and balance doesn't want to run them!) or they will be murdered. Tentacruel is OHKO'd by zen. Gligar has a really good chance to be OHKO'd by ice punch after rocks and most of them are SpDef anyway which just dies. Hippo is 2hko'd LOL. I can't think of a common defensive Pokemon on Balance which doesnt just die to a STAB or coverage move and the offensive mons obviously can't switch in on balance and none appreciate Fake Out. You can even run Fake Out + BP to hit offensive mons on balance and offense in general a lot harder. This mon is just absolutely ridiculous. It wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't so damn fast and with such a good typing (same typing as Mega Gallade, which could get up SDs in this tier because of its typing which is god-tier with the abundance of Fighting-types and the fact that it only has 3 weaknesses, all of which are relatively uncommon) and nice bulk, sitting at 60/85/85 so you can't just kill it with priority (this is not greninja LOL).

So to sum this all up: Medicham-Mega is a really, really broken mon with many good traits including
  • ridiculous attack (almost hits 600 LOL) and dual stabs that hit every mon in the tier except for bulky psychics, Doublade and Spiritomb.
  • Has access to ice punch to hit and almost always OHKO gligar
  • has a great speed tier
  • has a ridiculously good typing and great bulk
  • has access to 2 good priority moves, three in all
  • let's just think for a second, this is a 130 BP STAB move coming off of 598 attack if it's jolly. WTF
  • and finally, this calc:
  • 252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 249-294 (59.2 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Its negative traits include:
  • Being revenge killed by flying and ghost types (ghost includes just Scarf Chandelure and anything that gets Shadow Ball, pretty much, and flying is literally just Crobat/ Aero/ Noivern)
  • Being setup fodder for CM Reuniclus and SubCM Cresselia
Is there any reason for this mon not to be banned?
 

Meru

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Why do your calcs use Adamant Mega Medicham ?_? You do realize that gets outsped by +spe nature Hydreigon, Haxorus, Kyurem, Darm, Shaymin, Celebi, Jirachi, Krookodile, Roserade, Porygon-Z, and even Lucario, all of which except Lucario commonly run +spe natures.

That's a lot of mons...
 
Why do your calcs use Adamant Mega Medicham ?_? You do realize that gets outsped by +spe nature Hydreigon, Haxorus, Kyurem, Darm, Shaymin, Celebi, Jirachi, Krookodile, Roserade, Porygon-Z, and even Lucario, all of which except Lucario commonly run +spe natures.

That's a lot of mons...
Oh lol I forgot to change the nature on the calc, my bad. I hopefully was referring to jolly in my post disregarding the calcs.
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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Idk if anyone's posted it but I've been toying around using phys. def Slowking (okay and some non phys. Def sets for differing purposes) as a Medicham check in the current meta:


Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind / Nasty Plot
- Slack Off

While it's the closest thing we're finna have to Slowbro ever again, Slowking at least has the perk of being the only defensive check to Medicham capable of repeatedly coming into it as many times as it wishes thanks to Regenerator on top of solid recovery in Slack Off. Since barely any of them run Thunder Punch (Slowbro ain't relevant in this meta and HJK hits everything Thunder Punch hits even harder), Slowking's got more viability this week than it's ever had for quite a while in UU. Long as you aren't careless, it can sponge hits from Medicham for the rest of your team, though you may want something else to take those other physical attackers on, so that Slowking's healthy enough to not wind up in Medicham's KO range.
 
I'm not enjoying the Medicham meta at all.

Only reliable switch ins are bulky Psychic-type Pokemon, all of them can be worn down with lures + Medicham's HJK (it does 35% minimum to 252 / 252 Bold Reuniclus) + Pursuit; Spiritomb and Doublade, both are extremely uncommon, don't fit in most teams and they are nothing special in the UU metagame; Gligar, if it isn't carrying Ice Punch and only if it doesn't get Knocked Off; and Granbull, which is frankly a terrible Pokemon and it can only switch into Medicham once if it isn't Rest Talk. Playing around Medicham is insanely hard if you don't have one of those Pokemon, you are basically forced to sacrifice something to be able to revenge kill it.

Its massive power combined with its base 100 Speed and movepool is a bit ridiculous. Dual priority + dual STAB trashes offensive teams almost effortlessly. HJK + Psychic STAB + Drain Punch wrecks "slow" teams. And lastly Sub + BP takes advantage of all its counters.

OP bullshit ruining the tier, it needs to go.
 

Kink

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I'm not enjoying the Medicham meta at all.

Only reliable switch ins are bulky Psychic-type Pokemon, all of them can be worn down with lures + Medicham's HJK (it does 35% minimum to 252 / 252 Bold Reuniclus) + Pursuit; Spiritomb and Doublade, both are extremely uncommon, don't fit in most teams and they are nothing special in the UU metagame; Gligar, if it isn't carrying Ice Punch and only if it doesn't get Knocked Off; and Granbull, which is frankly a terrible Pokemon and it can only switch into Medicham once if it isn't Rest Talk. Playing around Medicham is insanely hard if you don't have one of those Pokemon, you are basically forced to sacrifice something to be able to revenge kill it.

Its massive power combined with its base 100 Speed and movepool is a bit ridiculous. Dual priority + dual STAB trashes offensive teams almost effortlessly. HJK + Psychic STAB + Drain Punch wrecks "slow" teams. And lastly Sub + BP takes advantage of all its counters.

OP bullshit ruining the tier, it needs to go.
I ohkoed a Mega Swampert with Jolly HJK the other day and that made me really sad.

edit: 252 Atk vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert (95.8 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
 
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So, how's the council feeling about Medichamite?

But, I think the loss of priority WoW from Sableye (and immunity to it's two STABs) and Slowbro just let Medicham steamroll throughout the entire UU. I've been playing with Jellicent and Yanmega, so it's not as easy to spam HJK and can be checked by Speed Boost Yanmega.

But, its pretty easy to spam and it's almost impossible to straight up counter, since we have seen most of the meta is almost cleanly 2HKO by MegiCham with the exception to Spiritomb, Slowking, Gligar and Doublade; none of which have been particularly influential in the current meta (outside of Infiltrator Spiritomb checking Sub Mega Zam and Zygarde, both niches have gone).

As for checks, we do have some options:

Defensive Granbull:

-1 252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Granbull: 127-151 (33 - 39.3%) -- 10.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Medicham: 258-306 (98.8 - 117.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Scarf Chandy

252 SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Medicham: 324-384 (124.1 - 147.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Chandelure: 237-280 (90.8 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Mega Absol
252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Medicham: 248-294 (95 - 112.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Mega Aero
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 403-475 (133.8 - 157.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO\

Mega Pidgeot
252 SpA Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Medicham: 422-500 (161.6 - 191.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yanmega
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Medicham: 374-439 (143.2 - 168.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Crobat
8
0 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Medicham: 294-348 (112.6 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So, there are more checks than counters for MegaCham. But, most of the checks cannot switch in safely unless you predict really well (scarf Chandy is probably the best option since it is immune to Fire Punch and HJK and resists Ice Punch, but only has a 50% chance to survive the Zen Headbutt).

I think Mega Cham is too easy too abuse with few real checks. Mega Yoga Instructor too stronk for UU.

Edit: I completely forgot Reuniclus and Cresselia who are probably the closest most reliable counters to Mega Cham.
 
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