Metagame RU Stall

[trc]

i feel like there needs to be a single thread to discuss this. regardless of the topic's breadth, there's plenty of room for good discussion. as most know, stall is a playstyle which involves the use of bulky pokemon to win a game in a means other than directly attacking, usually through amassed passive damage, while keeping the team healthy enough to consistently check all of the pokemon on the opposing team. stall usually aims to have multiple answers to various pokemon.

here are some points of discussion that can spark replies to this thread:

• is stall viable in ru? what threatens it incredibly and makes it hard to function? is mega sharpedo too difficult for defensive teams to deal with? how do you respond to it? are cores of mega sharpedo + dragalge or another heavy hitter too much? what about things like resttalk escavalier?
• how do you deal with other stall teams? through the employment of toxic spikes and strategic double switching to taunt users on a predicted defogger switch-in? using a trapper to trap a poison-type? using the 6th slot for an offensive stallbreaker like mega sharpedo itself? or perhaps the use of various taunt users such as fast gligar, jellicent, or drapion?
• which mega pokemon do you use? do you use mega audino, a lategame wincon? mega sharpedo, a slot to help against opposing stall teams? or perhaps you eschew a mega pokemon?
• what pokemon do you commonly see and use on stall teams, and what can you say about them (examples: alomomola, amoonguss, granbull, aromatisse, gligar, drapion, jellicent, bronzong, cresselia, doublade, togetic, escavalier, audino, seismitoad, moltres, etc)

i hope some good discussion can come out of this

 

[SketchUp]

In my opinion it is definitely viable. RU has some awesome stall pokemon like Cresselia, Amoonguss, Gligar and Bronzong.
One pokemon that looks kinda cool is Heatproof Bronzong. Because of Heatproof it only takes 20% from Dragalge's HP Fire, it survives 2 LO Fire Blast from Moltres 80% of the time and Focus Blast from MSceptile is not even a 3HKO. It has also utility as a Stealth Rock setter and it can get damage on things like Dragalge (earthquake) Cobalion (earthquake) or Abomasnow (Iron Head / Gyro Ball)
Only 1 out of 15 Bronzong's run Heatproof (usage stats) so often people will assume you're Levitate and switch their ground type out. Even if they discover you're Heatproof, it is still a nice answer to Moltres, Non-EQ Mega Sceptile and Dragalge.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Heatproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Toxic

I choose Iron Head over Gyro Ball as it is more reliable against slower pokemon and (most important) has more PP so you can't get pp stalled as easy as with Gyro Ball. I don't know if the EV spread is optimal, but you can try out some Atk EVs to get guaranteed KOs or some Def EVs to live some physical attacks. It has huge problems with physical attackers like Pangoro, Sharpedo and Doublade though so you need an answer for that.
Granbull can take any hit from MSharpedo and KO back with Play Rough, as even Ice Beams lack the power it needs to KO Granbull. Hitmontop and Aromatisse can also deal with it pretty easily while also helping the team with other stuff (heal bell, rapid spin, wish support)
EDIT: Just forgot Mega Sharpedo learns Poison Fang, I don't know how common it is, but Aromatisse is not very save if it runs poison fang, as it gets 2HKOd if it gets badly poisoned or when hazards are up. Granbull (especially resttalk) doesn't really care about Poison Fang though

Pangoro is a bitch to deal just use max def poison touch croagunk with as even Amoonguss can't beat it reliably. If Spiritomb still has its item, it can't take on a Banded Knock Off + Knock Off, but it can predict Pangoro and burn him with will-o-wisp. Scrappy Pangoro's just KOs it with Drain Punch so in that case Spiritomb is also not reliable. Stall just has no sure answers to Panda, but pokemon like Weezing and Hitmontop can play around it (both lack recovery what sucks tho)
Doublade is also annoying but is easier to deal with than Pangoro. Alomomola, Weezing and Spiritomb can burn it and make it either useless or let it spend a turn to swords dance which gives a free switch into a counter

I didn't try out everything yet. Pokemon like Jellicent, Gastrodon, Registeel, Seismitoad and Drapion are not used by me yet so not gonna give my opinion on those things.
The three pokemon I like the most to play with on defensive teams are Granbull, Bronzong and Spiritomb for the reasons above so you should definitely try those out.

 

[trc]

lets talk a bit more.

quagsire is a cool addition to stall, giving a reliable check to physical setup sweepers like slurpuff, giving more freedom to bronzongs to run spdef spreads safely and check the likes of dragalge, meloetta, mega sceptile etc better. most offenses wear down bronzong with combinations of these pokemon or the likes of uturn specs melo + pursuit doom/tomb etc making bronzong ridiculously inconsistent to play regardless of the amount of pokemon it checks; in all honesty you need 1-2 checks to specific pokemon outside of bronzong simply because of this, exacerbating redundancies without intelligent building.

237 speed cresselia is also a god.

 

[SketchUp]

Quagsire is indeed a cool addition to stall and I have tried to build a stall team but it either loses to some common wall/stallbreakers or it lacks recovery, so it can be worn down pretty easy so the wallbreakers can come through late game. I tried out many different teams and pokemon (basically every defensive pokemon available in RU) and at the moment I am enjoying Bronzong, Quagsire, Hitmontop, Aromatisse, Mantine and Escavalier as a team the most. They lack recovery but it is backed up with wish support (aromatisse) and Rest (hitmontop, mantine)
In the spoiler below are basically the biggest offensive threats and how I deal with them on some of my teams.

threatlist

S Rank:

- Bronzong wins but can be worn down. I have tried out Resttalk Doublade and it works fine too.

- Life Orb is annoying but can be beaten by AV Slowking. Lanturn and Heatproof Bronzong are not the most reliable answers, but they do a decent job

- Bronzong against saves the day. SpD Doublade also beats it. Whimsicott (which is nice against set-up sweepers and gives your team some recovery with Leech Seed) can beat non-HP Fire Mega Sceptile. AV Escavalier also beats Mega Sceptile lacking HP Fire

A+ Rank

- Quagsire + Hitmontop is the best you can probably do. Hitmontop can win against banded Pangoro if it stays healthy and Quagsire wins against Swords Dance. Weezing is also an option.

- It basically works the same as Moltres, although it hits less hard. Even pokemon weak to Heat Wave like Registeel can annoy it.

- Spiritomb and AV Escavalier are the only pokemon I can think of

A Rank

- Bronzong beats every set. Registeel wins against everything bar the SD set and Iron Head Doublade also wins if it is not SD EQ. Hitmontop and Weezing defeat the SD set.

- This thing is a threat but luckily it doesn't run Rock Slide that often in RU, so Mantine is often safe. AV Slowking is probably the safest against all the sets. You can try to lure a Earth Power / Ancient Power and do 65% with Escavalier, so you don't win if it is at full health.

- Quagsire (there is other stuff but just use Quagsire and you're fine)

- Quagsire. Burning it makes it much easier to deal with too.

- Banded Escavalier is a threat, but a healthy Hitmontop beats it. Jellicent can come in on everything bar Knock Off and burn it. Weezing also burns it and it can live 2 attacks from the banded set.

- Same as Cobalion

- Explosion is so annoying because it just kills you even if you are able to wall the set decently. I yet have to find a pokemon that defeats it reliably and isn't garbage like Piloswine or Avalugg.


A- Rank

- Same as Cobalion

- Weezing, Aromatisse, Granbull, Doublade, Spiritomb. Not a real threat in my opinion

- Pursuit is very annoying because stuff like Moltres or Mega Sceptile can beat you if your counters to them get trapped. Nasty Plot set is beaten by Mantine

- Same as Cobalion

TL;DR: Use Quagsire

 

[SketchUp]

Just an addition to my earlier post: I yet have to try out Mega Audino, Amoonguss, Cofagrigus and Jellicent, so I have no experience with them. If anyone knows what pokemon are beaten/countered by one of these pokemon, I'll add them to the list above to make it more complete.

 

[DiscoDucky]

I think Bronzong should theoretically be a good match-up against Mega-Glalie unless there's a significant number of Glalies running Crunch now.

 

[boltsandbombers]

I think Bronzong should theoretically be a good match-up against Mega-Glalie unless there's a significant number of Glalies running Crunch now.

Eh, not really - super fang is relatively common and a great move on mega glalie. After losing half its health from that, explosion has a decent chance to finish it off - still a solid check.

 

[tehy]

real talk

Mega Steelix on stall kicks ass

SR/Heavy/Quake/Toxic

or, since I doubled up on SpD Steels with raised zonger

Curse/Rest/Heavy Slam/Earthquake; a jank-ass wincon but there you go, can be good against some offensive teams and can outright sweep some offensive ones;beats many other bulky setup sweepers as well, including most CM psychics, all CM fairies, Curse Registeel.

Clus is also a boss on stall (ladder is horribly unprepared for it too, #freewinz). I'm trying out Psychic+Focus;psychic for better matchup with Quagsire and since Curselix covers a lot of the CM war BS that shock is for in the first place. (And Quaggy does a pretty good job at the rest.)

Quagsire:252/104+/148 is fly as nutsacks for NP Doomer.

My team is Clus/Lix/Licki/Sire/Zonger/SpDBat. All the mons there kick ass and take names regularly, i recommend any of them on stall.

 

[trc]

tehy how are you dealing with SD Mold Breaker Pangoro? After it Knocks Golbat's Eviolite off it seems to pretty much run through your team late game as you're basically forced to not let Golbat switch into anything else, especially with Stealth Rock up, and if your opponent sets Toxic Spikes to weaken Quagsire just a little bit Golbat is forced to come in on the potential SR being up and aim to remove them taking damage in the process and possibly even suiciding leaving Toxic Spikes free to go back up again and Pangoro to cleave through your team.

 

[tehy]

tehy how are you dealing with SD Mold Breaker Pangoro? After it Knocks Golbat's Eviolite off it seems to pretty much run through your team late game as you're basically forced to not let Golbat switch into anything else, especially with Stealth Rock up, and if your opponent sets Toxic Spikes to weaken Quagsire just a little bit Golbat is forced to come in on the potential SR being up and aim to remove them taking damage in the process and possibly even suiciding leaving Toxic Spikes free to go back up again and Pangoro to cleave through your team.

badly

i'm open to suggestions;the closest one (i might go back to) is also having Work/Refresh/Roost/Hurricane Mpidge (instead of Lix or Clus, i haven't decided which yet). Other than that, mangoro ruins my shit to a pretty large degree, but TBH the ways to deal with that fucker are damn limited

 

[DiscoDucky]

Eh, not really - super fang is relatively common and a great move on mega glalie. After losing half its health from that, explosion has a decent chance to finish it off - still a solid check.

if that's the case, then cofagrigus would be a decent check Tue to Mummy.

 

[boltsandbombers]

if that's the case, then cofagrigus would be a decent check Tue to Mummy.

Even that dies to explosion after rocks :o
Mega glalie is really hard to check on defensive teams on paper, I don't know about in practice tho.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Even that dies to explosion after rocks :o
Mega glalie is really hard to check on defensive teams on paper, I don't know about in practice tho.

Jesus Christ and I thought stall would be easy to build post sharpedo.

 

[Kingler]

I know this thread has been dead for a while, but I'd like to add onto the discussion. Stall is very hard to build in RU at the moment imo. You have threats like Work Up Mega Pidgeot (something like a Rhyperior or a phazer is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for this thing), Calm Mind Reuniclus (which can easily beat SubCM Moonblast Cress with Psyshock), Pangoro (SD and CB alike can demolish stall with just its STABs), Mega Glalie, and Choice Specs Dragalge. On top of that, not that many Megas are great on stall (it's not easy to fit in something aside from Mega Audino, which receives huge competition from other Fairies, and Mega Steelix, which makes Wish support mandatory). Cresselia helps somewhat by providing an amazing wall/glue/wincon for stall, but I don't think stall is worth running when you see at least one of these threats on every team, which makes it impossible to cover every threat.

I think stall will greatly benefit from the removal of the current suspects from the tier, which will make it a very viable playstyle, but I just don't feel stall is worth running atm.

 

[tehy]

My stall team rekts all those threats except Pangoro, which it sorta half checks so yea. Hell, gyro zonger alone is 60% of that. (Megalix lyfe too)

Also cm clus is baller on stall.

 

[pokemonisfun]

Togetic w/ Defog heal bell
Dual attack roselia with tspikes
Spdef twave sr Regirock
Alomomola
Curse Spiritomb
Spdef Cressy with toxic

Can you think of a way for my team to deal with sd panda, sd escavalier, sub cm moonblast cressy? Also can you think of other threats beside those 3 that give me a hard time and possible solutions?


Thx in advance

 

[trc]

taunt toxic brave bird 237 speed golbat :O

 

[trc]

actually run 238 hilarious to creep most cress

 

[pokemonisfun]

taunt toxic brave bird 237 speed golbat :O

Is that a threat or does that beat panda and esca and cressy?

 

[pokemonisfun]

Okay 239 speed it is :) thanks

 

[trc]

Is that a threat or does that beat panda and esca and cressy?

latter :]

 

[trc]

also the main gripe is that 4mss mandates another hazards remover but hey you've gotta do what you can with stall in ru :{|}

 

[pokemonisfun]

I appreciate this you guys are faster and smarter than rmt section.

I think you underestimate roselias utility because it also absorbs tspikes which cripples my team as you can see and it also is clawitzer response and magneton response. Both can be wallbreakers so it's nice to have something to switch into them.


I would be happy to start over again though because curse steelix seems something I overlooked. Do you have a set for that?

 

[pokemonisfun]

okay got it

curse steelix
mixed wall slowking (no cm)
spdef aromatisse (wish+aromatherapy)
golbat physical defense and defog
mixed wall drudiggon (sr)
phys def amoonguss

I covered the three holes I mentioned earlier with these 6! Can you think of any more holes?

 

[atomicllamas]

okay got it

curse steelix
mixed wall slowking (no cm)
spdef aromatisse (wish+aromatherapy)
golbat physical defense and defog
mixed wall drudiggon (sr)
phys def amoonguss

I covered the three holes I mentioned earlier with these 6! Can you think of any more holes?

CM focus blast reun (and shadow ball to a lesser extent) looks pretty annoying, as does Sub CM Meloetta (not as bad). Dropping Amoonguss for Drapion could fix this but puts more pressure on Aromatisse for cleric support and Golbat as a fighting type check. It does give you taunt / whirlwind / t - spikes / knock offs support though (everyone of its moves are so valuable to stall, lol). Idk what you are using Amoonguss for so I could be opening more weaknesses, but this seemed like an easy change?