RU Ditto

[blinkie]

Overview
########

Ditto can automatically transform into the opposing Pokemon upon switching in, copying their moves, nature, EVs, and any stat boosts. However, Ditto does not copy their HP, meaning that it has to live with a horrible base 48 HP. Ditto also can't transform into Pokemon behind Substitutes. However, the main draw of using Ditto is that it can transform into an opposing sweeper and take their boosts to turn the situation against the opponent, a strategy that appreciates Choice Scarf, which can make sure that Ditto outspeeds its foe. Ditto still loses to most Calm Mind or Bulk Up sweepers, as they can beat Ditto one on one with their higher HP stat. Ditto is almost completely useless against stall teams besides sometimes using utility moves such as Defog or Heal Bell. Another problem Ditto faces is that the moves it copies only have 5 PP, meaning it can be PP stalled, especially as it almost always holds a Choice Scarf.

Imposter
########
name: Imposter
move 1: Transform
move 2:
move 3:
move 4:
ability: Imposter
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
nature: Relaxed

Moves
========

Transform is literally the only move Ditto learns, but it is also useless because Imposter does everything it does except automatically, making it just filler.

Set Details
========

248 HP EVs give Ditto an entry hazard damage number, and investing in HP is important, as HP is the only stat Ditto keeps when it transforms. 252 Defense EVs and a Relaxed nature make sure that Ditto will underspeed other Dittos in a stall war and take less damage from their Struggle. Choice Scarf allows Ditto to outspeed non-Choice Scarf opponents after transforming into them. Ditto's IVs can be tweaked for certain Hidden Powers, such as 30 Attack IVs, 30 Defense IVs and 1 Speed IV for Hidden Power Ice to hit Druddigon and Golbat. Other possibilities include 30 Defense IVs, 30 Special Defense IVs, and 1 Speed IV for Hidden Power Rock to hit Moltres and Fletchinder, as well as 30 Defense IVs, 30 Special Attack IVs, and 1 Speed IV for Hidden Power Grass to hit Gastrodon, Quagsire and Rhyperior.

Usage Tips
========

Never send in Ditto against a Pokemon behind a Substitute unless you are using it as fodder because it cannot do anything back. Be cautious of switching Ditto into Pokemon that can potentially hit hard, either because of a super-effective move in the case of transforming into Druddigon or having high offenses versus low defenses in Dugtrio's case. Use Ditto to revenge kill dangerous set up sweepers, although Ditto's presence can act as a deterrent from attempts at setting up. Ditto should not be used to revenge kill bulky sweepers such as Calm Mind Spiritomb or Reuniclus because defensive boosts mean that Ditto will lose, as it only has base 48 HP. Ditto can have some utility against more defensive teams by coming in and setting or removing entry hazards or by acting as a cleric. Remember that Ditto can be used to scout opposing movesets on more versatile Pokemon, although Ditto should not be switching in purely to scout for moves.

Team Options
========

Ditto is best used as a glue and it can work on many teams, but is best used with offensive teammates that also have problems with set up sweepers. Ditto appreciates entry hazard removal to increase its longevity, as it is susceptible to all entry hazards, and it also appreciates the setting of entry hazards to help it if it ever attempts to counter sweep. Partners that can annoy Substitute sweepers such as Golbat or Exploud, are good partners as Ditto cannot get past Substitute alone. Partners such as Pangoro and Exploud work well with Ditto because they can wallbreak against stall, an archetype Ditto is not very useful against.


Other Options
########

Focus Sash gives Ditto the option of counter sweeping while also being able to switch moves, but it requires entry hazard removal as a result and can stll potentially lose to priority users. Other Hidden Power types can also be used, such as Hidden Power Fire for Escavalier and Abomasnow, Hidden Power Ground, for Magneton and Jolteon, and Hidden Power Flying for Virizion.

Checks & Counters
########

**Defensive Pokemon**: Pokemon such as Slowking, Amoonguss, and Aromatisse won't mind their own attacks much and can easily stall Ditto out of its 5 PP with their recovery moves.

**Bulky Setup Sweepers**: Bulky setup sweepers such as Calm Mind Meloetta, Virizion, and Curse Registeel can tank Ditto's attacks thanks to their boosted defenses, and then hit Ditto back hard by virtue of its base 48 HP and inability to change moves while holding Choice Scarf.

**Substitute**: Ditto cannot transform into Pokemon behind a Substitute, so as long as the opposing Pokemon is behind a Substitute, Ditto is rendered useless.

 

[tehy]

I think i may be a veteran of these analyses

K so, there's probably some hidden power it's preferable to have, iv spread for it (for now, hp rock could be fun for moltres, maybe hp ground for jolty, i'm surs there are way better ones so keep searching.) Then, find the best IV spread, keeping in mind high def iv and low speed iv.

8 SpD is meaningless, put it in attack (which is also pretty useless, but
...ditto v ditto stallwar!!lol)

OO:maybe lefties, maybe red card. Lefties is ok v.stall, red card beats bulky boosters. But, you need speed ties to revenge so they kinda suck.

 

[aVocado]

The Pokemon who use Hidden Power most (off the top of my head) are Sceptile, Jolteon, LO Moltres, Dragalge, and... magneton? And in order they use Fire, Ice, Grass, Fire, and Ice. Sceptile and Dragalge are the most relevant and Ice hits them both super effectively, although you'd use their STAB against them anyway. You could still use HP Ice against them and then not be forced to switch out if they like, bring Gligar or something which would be stupid but eh

In the end it really doesn't matter much, it's such a minimal thing. If I had to choose though I'd choose Ice because it seems like overall better than any other type.

 

[tehy]

The Pokemon who use Hidden Power most (off the top of my head) are Sceptile, Jolteon, LO Moltres, Dragalge, and... magneton? And in order they use Fire, Ice, Grass, Fire, and Ice. Sceptile and Dragalge are the most relevant and Ice hits them both super effectively, although you'd use their STAB against them anyway. You could still use HP Ice against them and then not be forced to switch out if they like, bring Gligar or something which would be stupid but eh

In the end it really doesn't matter much, it's such a minimal thing. If I had to choose though I'd choose Ice because it seems like overall better than any other type.

I haven't been able to play for about a month, which is kind of crippling in such a new meta, that said your list seems about accurate. With the addition of mega pidge, sometimes

So, as you said you'd just trash the dragons with dragon stab, making them mostly irrelevant in that regard. And as i say right now, just hurricane pidge. That leaves us with

Jolteon-Jolt's pretty fast, so it's revenge-worthy, and it usually doesn't carry anything to hit itself, beyond neutral shadow ball or such. Even better, ditto can switch in directly on electric stab, even volt switch, and heal, so it's a switch-in. Hp ground 2hitkoes

Magneton- not as fast and it can still volt on you, but this is a bitch to switch in on, it often carries hp+doubly weak to ground, hp ground ohkoes

Moltres:not that fast either, still tough to switch in on. I guess ditto can somewhat switch in on it with Fire Blast. (The scarf set is obviously fast but you tie with it.) 43% OHKO, 100% after an LO round

Yea, it's not that major of a thing, but hp ground-despite being unfavorable to be locked into-gives you a way better matchup versus 2 threatening Pokemon you can actually switch into, while hp rock helps you better beat a major metagame threat you can kind of switch into.

Alternately, like you say, you can use HP ice (or grass, like i say) to smash those elec's switch-ins, but i'd prefer to just switch in and force them out. Grass is also nice as a moltres. No matter what though, this definitely does matter

 

[blinkie]

Focus Sash could also go in OO too I guess
Although I kind of get that Lefties is useful against bulkier teams, IMO I wouldn't run Ditto because losing speed ties against sweepers just completely defeats the point of it.
I would go HP Ice just in general, but also yeah Rock hits only Moltres but thats pretty big.
Unfortunately HP Ice requires 1 speed IV so you lose to other Dittos not running it in stallwar LOL.

Honestly kinda depends on your team as well if you have lots of trouble with Moltres then you would need HP Rock but if you have a Jolteon weakness then Ground.

IDK what I should write about in my analysis tho?
Just say what each Hidden power does and then like "use different Hidden powers according to team needs?"

 

[aVocado]

You never posted to say this was QC ready :o

in Overview mention that it's kind of dead weight against stall teams for the most part.

In set details, mention some IV spreads and suggest to run as little speed as possible for ditto mirror matches. Suggest the following Hidden Powers: Ice, Rock, and uhh.. grass? specify the advantages of each (ice for gligar, rock for moltres/fletch/houndoom, grass for rhyperior, quagsire, gastrodon)

In teammates mention something to use against stall cuz it's mostly helpless against it (something like a couple wallbreakers (dragalge, pangoro, etc) is fine)

I can see Focus Sash's niche but I can't see Leftovers.. it sounds useless because its so situational (moreso than choice scarf/sash), so I'd like that removed please. mention a bunch of other hidden powers that could be used (mostly just HP fire)

good job overall (i'm just nitpicking tbh), just make sure to explain these things thoroughly in the write-up cuz I know it confuses a lot of people.

QC approved 1/3

edit: also i know this is common sense but stress the importance of always investing in max hp (reason being it doesn't copy HP stat and uses its own)

 

[atomicllamas]

QC approved 2/3

 

[g]

Remove the bullet things part that is still there
3/3

 

[aVocado]

I'd like a sentence in overview to say something along the lines of "Ditto discourages Pokemon from setting up, as it can easily copy their boosts and use them to sweep." no need for a literal copy/paste, just the idea.

consider putting substitute in c&c just cuz Ditto can't copy a Pokemon behind a sub but eh, it's not exactly a counter, but it's kinda worth noting I guess.

 

[blinkie]

I'd like a sentence in overview to say something along the lines of "Ditto discourages Pokemon from setting up, as it can easily copy their boosts and use them to sweep." no need for a literal copy/paste, just the idea.

consider putting substitute in c&c just cuz Ditto can't copy a Pokemon behind a sub but eh, it's not exactly a counter, but it's kinda worth noting I guess.

Implemented

 

[antemortem]

you forgot to remove the bullets in your write-up

 

[atomicllamas]

blinkie remove the bullets in team options so they can gp this

 

[blinkie]

oops forgot about that. Thanks for pointing it out, implemented.

 

[antemortem]

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Overview
########

Ditto is a unique Pokemon in the RU metagame. Ditto can automatically transform into the opposing Pokemon when it upon switches switching in, copying their moves, any stat boosts, nature, and EVs,(AC) and any stat boosts. (sounds better this way imo) However, Ditto does not copy their HP, meaning that it has to live with a horrible base 48 HP. Ditto also can't transform into Pokemon behind Substitutes, so it can absolutely nothing. However, the main draw of using Ditto is that it can transform into an opposing sweeper and take their boosts,(RC) to turning the situation against them, a strategy that appreciates if you hold a Choice Scarf, which can make sure that Ditto will have faster outspeeds its foe. Ditto still loses to most Calm Mind or Bulk Up sweepers,(AC) as they can beat Ditto one on one with their higher HP stat. Ditto is almost useless against stall teams besides sometimes using utility moves such as Defog or Heal Bell. Another problem Ditto faces is that the moves it copies only have 5 PP, meaning it can be PP stalled, especially as it almost always holds a Choice Scarf. Ditto can act as a deterrent against setup sweepers, as it can switch in and steal their boosts to sweep. (You said this already)

Imposter
########
name: Imposter
move 1: Transform
move 2:
move 3:
move 4:
ability: Imposter
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
nature: Relaxed

Moves
========

Transform is literally the only move Ditto learns, but it is also useless because Imposter does everything it does except automatically, making it just filler.

Set Details
========

248 HP EVs gives Ditto an entry hazard damage number, and investing in HP is important,(AC) as HP is the only stat Ditto keeps when it transforms. 252 Defense EVs and a Relaxed nature make sure that Ditto will underspeed other Dittos in a stall(add space)war, and take less damage from their Struggle. Choice Scarf is nearly mandatory as it allows Ditto to outspeed non-(hyphen)Choice Scarf opponents after transforming into them. Ditto's can also tweak its IVs can be tweaked for certain Hidden Powers against to cover threats, such as 0 Attack IVs, 30 Defense IVs and 1 Speed IV for Hidden Power Ice to hit Gligar. Other possibilities include 30 Defense IVs, 30 Special Defense IVs, and 1 Speed IV,(AC) which can get you Hidden Power Rock which hits that hits Moltres and Fletchinder. 30 Defense IVs, 30 Special Attack IVs, and 1 Speed IV gets you Hidden Power Grass to hit Gastrodon, Quagsire and Rhyperior.

Usage Tips
========

Never send in Ditto against a Pokemon behind a Substitute, unless you are using it as fodder foddering it for passive damage, because it cannot do anything back. Be cautious of switching in Ditto against into Pokemon that can potentially hit themselves hard, either because of a super-effective move such as in the case of transforming into Druddigon or having high offenses versus low defenses such as in Dugtrio's case. Use Ditto to revenge kill dangerous set up sweepers, although just having a Ditto's presence can act as a deterrent from attempts at setting up. Ditto should not be used to revenge kill bulky sweepers such as Calm Mind Spiritomb or Reuniclus, because defense boosts mean that Ditto cannot break through, but Ditto will lose,(AC) as it only has 48 base 48 HP. Ditto can have some utility against more defensive teams by coming in and setting or removing entry hazards, or by acting as a cleric. Remember that Ditto can be used to scout opposing movesets on more versatile Pokemon, although Ditto should not be switching in purely to scout for moves.

Team Options
========

Ditto is best used as a glue, and it can work with on many teams, but it is best used with offensive teammates who that also have problems with set up sweepers. Ditto appreciates entry hazard removal to increase its longevity, as it is susceptible to all entry hazards, and it also appreciates the setting of entry hazards to help it if it ever attempts to counter sweep. Partners that can annoy Substitute sweepers such as Golbat or Exploud are good partners,(AC) as Ditto cannot get past Substitute alone. Partners such as Pangoro and Draglage work well with Ditto because they can wallbreak against stall, an archetype Ditto is not very useful against.

Other Options
########

A Focus Sash is another item option as it gives Ditto the option of counter sweeping while also being able to switch moves, but it requires entry hazard removal as a result, and still can potentially lose to priority users. Other Hidden Power types can also be used, such as Hidden Power Fire, which hits Escavalier and Abomasnow, Hidden Power Ground, which nails Magneton and Jolteon, and Hidden Power Flying for Virizion.

Checks & Counters
########

**Defensive Pokemon**: Pokemon like such as Gligar, Amoonguss,(AC) and Aromatisse won't mind their own attacks much and can easily stall Ditto out of its 5 PP with their recovery moves.

**Bulky Setup Sweepers**: Bulky setup sweepers such as Calm Mind Meloetta, Virizion, and Curse Registeel can tank Ditto's attacks with their boosted defenses, and then hit Ditto back hard thanks to by virtue of its base 48 HP and inability to change moves with a while holding Choice Scarf.

**Substitute**: Ditto cannot transform into Pokemon behind a Substitute, so as long as the opposing Pokemon is behind a Substitute, Ditto is rendered useless.

GP 1/2

 

[blinkie]

Implemented

 

[ryan]

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Overview
########

Ditto is a unique Pokemon in the RU metagame. (kind of implied by the following paragraph) Ditto can automatically transform into the opposing Pokemon upon switching in, copying their moves, nature, EVs, and any stat boosts. However, Ditto does not copy their HP, meaning that it has to live with a horrible base 48 HP. Ditto also can't transform into Pokemon behind Substitutes. However, the main draw of using Ditto is that it can transform into an opposing sweeper and take their boosts to turn the situation against them the opponent, a strategy that appreciates Choice Scarf, which can make sure that Ditto outspeeds its foe. Ditto still loses to most Calm Mind or Bulk Up sweepers, as they can beat Ditto one on one with their higher HP stat. Ditto is almost completely useless against stall teams besides sometimes using utility moves such as Defog or Heal Bell. Another problem Ditto faces is that the moves it copies only have 5 PP, meaning it can be PP stalled, especially as it almost always holds a Choice Scarf.

Imposter
########
name: Imposter
move 1: Transform
move 2:
move 3:
move 4:
ability: Imposter
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
nature: Relaxed

Moves
========

Transform is literally the only move Ditto learns, but it is also useless because Imposter does everything it does except automatically, making it just filler.

Set Details
========

248 HP EVs give Ditto an entry hazard damage number, and investing in HP is important, as HP is the only stat Ditto keeps when it transforms. 252 Defense EVs and a Relaxed nature make sure that Ditto will underspeed other Dittos in a stall war,(RC) and take less damage from their Struggle. Choice Scarf allows Ditto to outspeed non-Choice Scarf opponents after transforming into them. Ditto's IVs can be tweaked for certain Hidden Powers against threats, such as 0 Attack IVs, 30 Defense IVs and 1 Speed IV for Hidden Power Ice to hit Gligar (might want to change this since Gligar is UU now). Other possibilities include 30 Defense IVs, 30 Special Defense IVs, and 1 Speed IV,(RC) which can get you for Hidden Power Rock that hits to hit Moltres and Fletchinder,(change period to comma) as well as 30 Defense IVs, 30 Special Attack IVs, and 1 Speed IV gets you for Hidden Power Grass to hit Gastrodon, Quagsire and Rhyperior.

Usage Tips
========

Never send in Ditto against a Pokemon behind a Substitute,(RC) unless you are using it as fodder,(RC) because it cannot do anything back. Be cautious of switching Ditto into Pokemon that can potentially hit hard, either because of a super-effective move in the case of transforming into Druddigon or having high offenses versus low defenses in Dugtrio's case. Use Ditto to revenge kill dangerous set up sweepers, although Ditto's presence can act as a deterrent from attempts at setting up. Ditto should not be used to revenge kill bulky sweepers such as Calm Mind Spiritomb or Reuniclus,(RC) because defense defensive boosts mean that Ditto will lose, as it only has base 48 HP. Ditto can have some utility against more defensive teams by coming in and setting or removing entry hazards,(RC) or by acting as a cleric. Remember that Ditto can be used to scout opposing movesets on more versatile Pokemon, although Ditto should not be switching in purely to scout for moves.

Team Options
========

Ditto is best used as a glue, and it can work on many teams,(RC) but it is best used with offensive teammates that also have problems with set up sweepers. Ditto appreciates entry hazard removal to increase its longevity, as it is susceptible to all entry hazards, and it also appreciates the setting of entry hazards to help it if it ever attempts to counter sweep. Partners that can annoy Substitute sweepers such as Golbat or Exploud, are good partners, as Ditto cannot get past Substitute alone. Partners such as Pangoro and Draglage work well with Ditto because they can wallbreak against stall, an archetype Ditto is not very useful against.


Other Options
########

Focus Sash gives Ditto the option of counter sweeping while also being able to switch moves, but it requires entry hazard removal as a result,(RC) and still can still potentially lose to priority users. Other Hidden Power types can also be used, such as Hidden Power Fire,(RC) which hits for Escavalier and Abomasnow, Hidden Power Ground,(RC) which nails for Magneton and Jolteon, and Hidden Power Flying for Virizion.

Checks & Counters
########

**Defensive Pokemon**: Pokemon such as Gligar, Amoonguss, and Aromatisse won't mind their own attacks much and can easily stall Ditto out of its 5 PP with their recovery moves.

**Bulky Setup Sweepers**: Bulky setup sweepers such as Calm Mind Meloetta, Virizion, and Curse Registeel can tank Ditto's attacks thanks to their boosted defenses, and then hit Ditto back hard by virtue of its base 48 HP and inability to change moves while holding Choice Scarf.

**Substitute**: Ditto cannot transform into Pokemon behind a Substitute, so as long as the opposing Pokemon is behind a Substitute, Ditto is rendered useless.

2/2

 

[Molk]

Hey blinkie would you mind going through this analysis and removing/replacing all mentions of Pokemon that are no longer in the tier? (Gligar, Sceptile, the suspects), it'll make uploading this significantly easier. Thanks in advance dude :]

 

[blinkie]

ok Molk think I removed all of them

 

[tehy]

Is HP Ice still worth using with them gone? Electrics just zap golbat and fires just blaze him, drudd is kinda legit i guess. Really, you have to predict a switch-out on mons you can't even necessarily force out, if you do that i'd rather a deathblow like hp grass on water/grounds, or just a matchup improver like hp rock.

+2 252 SpA Houndoom Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Houndoom: 280-330 (96.2 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Moltres Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 292-348 (90.9 - 108.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

 

[Molk]

aight, uploading!