Its Taunt Synthesis set is really good at stallbreaking. Its problems come down to dealing with certain fire mons common on stall like Tflame and Heatran and the selective pressure to maintain Leaf Storm PP in case you need to switch the snake out. Generally the same ol problems with serp really.
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Pokémon Serperior
- Thread starter Youmu the Gardener
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Talonflame is hardly used on stal it is use on Hyper Offense and balance
Heatran can be handle with Hp ground
and it can use giga drain as a recovery option over synthesis to conserve pp
Realtalk tho? I'm a cartridge player, so fancy hidden powers are nigh unobtainable. Leaf storm, dragon pulse, giga drain and...I'm thinking glare. Serps' movepool really sucks. What do y'all think?
Maybe Knock Off to screw over potential switchins.
Your question was whether it was a good stallbreaker, not which options you thought were best. The set i said just happens to be a pretty efficient stallbreaker but other sets and moves obviously work. For a more direct answer, yes, Serperior is a good stallbreaker that's kind of stopped by common stallmons depending on HP coverage.
And if you think Talonflame can't fit on stall teams than so be your opinion.
That's what breeding is for, with luck of course. But Serperior can in fact handle Heatran rather easily, with the right moves. Apologies for the Signal Beam part, was looking at the wrong tab at the time.
But Serperior of course is going to need support. He isn't very bulky, nor very offensive. Contrary just gives him that extra oomph he needs, much like Malamar, to work to great ends with the right chances. He gets it quite a bit easier than Malamar, but with (honestly) a worse typing defensively with the current meta game.
How is Serperior's typing worse than Malamar's?
Dark/Psychic is ass defensively, it has no resists and only one immunity to Psychic attacks, it is much harder to switch in Malamar. Grass on the other hand, has a lot of weaknesses BUT has key resistances to Water, Electric, and Ground, meaning Serperior can switch in on common coverage moves. 75/95/95 bulk is also unusually high for an offensive Pokemon like Serperior.
Malamar is horrible and is in no way comparable to Serperior asidr from having the same ability.
Dark/Psychic is ass defensively, it has no resists and only one immunity to Psychic attacks, it is much harder to switch in Malamar. Grass on the other hand, has a lot of weaknesses BUT has key resistances to Water, Electric, and Ground, meaning Serperior can switch in on common coverage moves. 75/95/95 bulk is also unusually high for an offensive Pokemon like Serperior.
Malamar is horrible and is in no way comparable to Serperior asidr from having the same ability.
Actually, it's not that difficult - remember that the Power items guarantee the inheritance of certain IVs. All you need for HP Fire is a Pokemon in the same egg group with 30 SpA, one with 30 Speed, a Power Anklet and a Power Lens.
It helps if you still have your BW carts and know how to rng abuse potential parents.
lmao wtf i use talonflame on my stall team, its definitely legit as an answer to opposing stall teams
it literally shuts down like a lot of defensive pokemon like heatran, gliscor and hippowdon with taunt while it slowly chips them down using status and brave bird, while at the same time providing a check to nonsense like lop and keldeo and trolling a shitload of physical attackers with a fast will-o-wisp.
its definitely worth as a serperior answer so long as the player watches out for hp rock: it's also pretty necessary if you're using quag as your unaware because serp just rolls all over quag
Grass typing is weak to Bug, Fire, Ice, Flying. ALL of these are prevalent in the current meta-game, both in Smogon tiers and the Pokemon Company Online. Malamar is weak to Fairy and Bug. Less to worry about considering Talonflame is everywhere in both, Scizor is always lurking on the next team to come, and Ice coverage is not hard to throw onto a water type.
Fairy is not nearly as common despite being a new typing, and bug is shared. Switching in Malamar is an asinine strategy for a 'mon whom requires support as-is, not one who gives it. I also wouldn't consider resistance to Water *key*. A lot of types are decently common on teams already that resist it, and adding another is just fluffing your team to be anti-rain. Resistance to ground is nice, and is why considering a grass type at all on a team is always worthwhile, but it shouldn't be a selling point on something that is as gimmicky as "If I use this move once, I may be able to cover the typing they are switching in with one of my other possible 2 attacks since I'm obsessed with glare for support". Malamar is, given, gimmicky as well. But that's why he doesn't have a thread, and for another time perhaps.
Having more resistances is far more valuable than having less weaknesses, defensively at least. Look at Celebi, Chesnaught, Metagross, and Tyranitar. They all have tons of weaknesses to common offensive types but make up with it due to their many chances to switch in. Seriously what doesn't hit Tyranitar super-effectively?
Okay yeah Serperior gets shafted by more move types but it can switch in on EQ, Scald, Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, and Volt Switch. Plenty of chances to come in although not as many as some others have. Yet what is Malamar switching in on? Even Skarmory Brave Bird has a chance of 2HKOing that piece of garbage unless it is especially bulky. You don't need to hit Malamar with Moonblast to kill it. The metagame is so powerful that neutral STAB moves are often enough to one-shot a lot of things unless they have a handy resistance.
Malamar should never be switched-in if being properly used. That's like saying "I'm going to switch-in my Gengar on this neutral hit and try to sweep."
But, I do see what you mean by resistances and such. However, crediting Serperior as having a stellar typing defensively because you can switch-in on 3-5 moves you can name outright does not make him actually good. It makes him usable, and that's about it. Good defensive typings have something that make it even easier to switch-in for other members of their team. EQ is nice to switch into, but Volt Switch and Scald aren't normally something you'd be looking specifically for. More likely moves that hit harder, and have a better chance at doing massive damage despite being possibly resisted; such as Hydro Pump, or Draco Meteor.
Also to note, depending on the set you choose for Serperior, there's a pretty good chance of the set I personally run for a Malamar in UU to have more bulk than it. It's not like I'm saying it's a killer bulky set, but it is still better than Serperior's base defenses +HP. A lot of people discredit pokemon without actually giving them their own personal time using said pokemon.
But, I do see what you mean by resistances and such. However, crediting Serperior as having a stellar typing defensively because you can switch-in on 3-5 moves you can name outright does not make him actually good. It makes him usable, and that's about it. Good defensive typings have something that make it even easier to switch-in for other members of their team. EQ is nice to switch into, but Volt Switch and Scald aren't normally something you'd be looking specifically for. More likely moves that hit harder, and have a better chance at doing massive damage despite being possibly resisted; such as Hydro Pump, or Draco Meteor.
Also to note, depending on the set you choose for Serperior, there's a pretty good chance of the set I personally run for a Malamar in UU to have more bulk than it. It's not like I'm saying it's a killer bulky set, but it is still better than Serperior's base defenses +HP. A lot of people discredit pokemon without actually giving them their own personal time using said pokemon.
If we're talking OU here (which we should be considering this is the OU sub forum), the proper use of Malamar is to not use it as it's garbage and as for you point, Gengar actually has a solid typing/ability that allows it to come in on a lot of stuff without taking any/much damage, of course this is always a risk but yeah.
No one says Serperior has a stellar defensive typing, however it does resist some common moves and could come in on those moves, it also has the potential to have recovery in the form of Leech Seed, Giga Drain or Synthesis and a great speed stat as well as decent defensive stats.
That being said it's still fairly hard to just switch Serperior in and start doing work, so ideally you'd want to pair it with some (slow) voltturners.
Who cares if your Malamar set has more bulk, Serperior isn't used for it's bulk, nor is Malamar viable in OU, and it's also pretty slow so it will likely have to take 2 hits when switched in.
Except Gengar actually does have a couple immunities and resistances where it can switch in. As you yourself just said Malamar has few switch in chances, thus you play much of your games effectively 5-6. Malamar has no important resistances and is in no way a team player. Raw stats aren't all that important when your pokemon has an innate ability to take half damage from certain moves. Resistances are very, very important even for sweepers.
Why are we comparing serperior to an NU pokemon in an OU thread? Just because something has the same ability doesn't mean you can compare them in the slightest... malamar is a whole nother ball game for a whole nother metagame with a whole nother movepool, typing, and BST. This debate is as stupid as comparing forretress to scizor.
Now spinda is a perfectly good comparison..
Sits back and watches how many people took that seriously and detrail the thread.
EDIT:
lol whoops.
Now spinda is a perfectly good comparison..
Sits back and watches how many people took that seriously and detrail the thread.
EDIT:
Forretress*
lol whoops.
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I feel your pain, friend.
I could make a joke here, but I'm honestly not sure which mon you're actually using in your example of the two in that portmaneau.
I think the argument was more about what is better, fewer weaknesses or more resistances.
Chev was actually trying to suggest Malamar as not being total crap but I don't think there's much of an argument there lol.
Y'know why it's the right thread? 'Cause gatr and serp both waited way too damn long for their HAs. Plus, my icon is a snivy, so it's fine.
I use a leftovers serperior, and it has worked pretty well. I EV trained its hp and spAtk. If the foe gives you just one free turn while it sets up and you have serperior out, they better hope they have forretress or scizor somewhere in their party because after two leaf storms serperior starts OHKOing a lot of things. Its bulk isn't great but I did manage to 1v1 a focus sash weavile and survive with 13 health and a weavile dead... so it's good enough to take a couple of hits.
Yay my first post.
Yay my first post.
Taking one hit is nowhere near good enough to sacrifice a Life Orb for power, and Speed which is by far one of Serperior's best traits. It absolutely requires speed investment to not get outsped by most every offensive 'mon in the tier and get off a sweep.
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