ORAS OU My first RMT! (OU semi-sandstorm)

[Bendiving]

Edit: changes in bold. These are all trials and I'm still tweaking and still looking for input :)

Hi, I’ve been using smogon sets as guidelines for years but never looked at the forum or played showdown until recently. I’ve been playing around with a sandstorm team after getting my arse handed to me on a plate by a sand rush Excadrill. I’ve been testing and made some moveset and pokemon changes (Togekiss for Sylveon, Gliscor for M-Venusaur) to try to patch up my weaknesses. I've only got to about 1300 on the ladder but I think that's mainly down to being out-predicted by better/more experienced players more than anything else, though I think I am getting better. So, any input would be appreciated!

Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpA
Brave Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
Together with Excadrill, Tyranitar forms the core of my team, these two were the pokemon which I built the team around. Fairly straightforward, the idea is to set up the sandstorm to boost Excadrill's speed and allow him to sweep, sand rock is to extend sandstorm duration and thus potential sweeping time. HP EVs in addition to decent bulk help longevity. Pursuit is to pursuit trap the likes of Gengar and Latias, however I haven't found this to be particularly useful in the games I have played so far. Rock slide and earthquake give great neutral coverage together and combined with Adamant nature mean that Tyranitar can still hit hard in addition to his primary role. Nature changed to Brave and Earthquake switched to Ice Beam to better handle Landorus T. Also considering Scarf to handle faster threatswith Hasty nature. Can't decide if it's worth losing smooth rock. Thoughts?

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
Excadrill is the second half of my core and my main sweeper. He is a beast in sand so pairs well with Tyranitar thanks to Sand Rush. As he shares a common ground weakness with Tyranitar, Air Balloon allows him to switch in to a predicted earthquake and attempt to sweep. Swords Dance allows him to set up on the predicted switch or 2/3HKO to make the sweep go much much more smoothly, and with Air Balloon, he has more chances to set this up. The other three moves are for coverage. I find Iron Head to be the most spammable thanks to its flinch chance, STAB, and lack of immunity.

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost
I know, I know, every player has used a Talonflame at some point and it is predictable and generally well prepared for. However, with Gale Wings that doesn't mean it's still not one of the best revenge killers in the game. He has a great defensive synergy with Excadrill and Tyranitar as he is immune to ground and resists fighting, which both are weak to. He also resists fire, another of Excadrill's weaknesses. All this gives him plenty of switch-in opportunities. Sharp beak and adamant nature further increase damage output. Swords dance and roost are to facilitate another sweep, and due to the large number of forced switches, has plenty of opportunities to set up or heal. Brave bird is in particular for fighting types which threaten the core, but is also a good spammable move in most situations. Flare blitz is for steel, bug, grass types which threaten Tyranitar (and Starmie). Fletchling is also the first pokemon I ever received on the GTS and it had gale wings and 6IVs, and was partly responsible for me getting into competitive battling in the first place, so I've always liked this guy despite the huge number of teams it appears on :)
Nature nd EV spread changed to make it outspeed certain threats and make HP odd for SR.

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Rapid Spin
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
Starmie was a staple on my teams back in the red and blue days, so it was great to get an excuse for some nostalgia here. No Talonflame is safe without a rapid spinner or defogger, so this is Starmie's main role, otherwise once rocks are up Talonflame's job is made much harder. However, it also has a great defensive and offensive synergy with the rest of the team - in particular a water resist, which was a huge weakness so far, plus a fighting resist, making it even easier to switch in from excadrill or tyranitar. Timid makes Starmie faster than most non-scarfed pokes, and life orb plus analytic make its moves hit unbelievably hard on the switch. Hydro pump is for sheer power while thunderbolt and ice beam are for near-perfect coverage. Unfortunately due to life orb and potentially sandstorm, it gets worn down quickly.
Ice beam changed for recover as it is now handled by Tyranitar, and reduces need for a cleric. Also considering putting rapid spin onto Excadrill instead of Swords Dance and changinsStarmie to Keldeo


Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpA
Bold Nature
- Softboiled
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast / Flamethrower / HP Ground
Tyranitar and Excadrill are both very vulnerable to burns, and Talonflame and Starmie to residual damage, so it was clear I needed a cleric. Originally I went with togekiss for bonus paraflinching lols, however (mega)sableye was turning out to be a huge problem, so I changed to Sylveon instead. This also freed up a moveslot for protect, making her much more viable as a cleric. Leftovers further increase longevity, EVs and nature patch up the physical side. With pixilate, hyper voice still hits hard even without the investment, and she can beat most sableye one-on-one as well as healing my team and dealing decent damage all round. I've won a few games with Sylveon as my last surviving poke so I feel she has earned her place on the team. I went with Sylveon over Clefable because she hits harder without calm mind boosts, and if she still wants to run heal bell a Clefable cleric basically has to choose between wish+protect or calm mind+softboiled, neither of which were ideal.
Swapped Sylveon for Clefable. Reduced need for Cleric by giving Starmie recover, and clefable can absorb statuses. Also works as a much-needed stallbreaker, and a set-up sweeper which is always useful.

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 242 SpA / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leech Seed
Finally, mega Venusaur. He was a late addition to my team, a bit of an afterthought really, and I tried several other pokes before I settled on him. In the end it was my Rotom-W weakness and open mega slot which made me try him, but he has more than proved his worth since then. His typing complements the rest of my team very well, I've found I can often switch from Tyranitar into Venusaur, mega evolve him, then switch to Excadrill for the sweep, as the typings seem complement favourable switch-ins. He also helps with my water weakness. EVs allow him to tank hits but also deal out damage. Speed EVs are to outspeed adamant Azumarill. Giga drain is for water types (particularly Rotom-W) and recovery. Sludge bomb is for annoying fairy types that Excadrill can't deal with, particularly unaware Clefable. I considered putting EVs into Special Defence in case Clefable has flamethrower, thoughts? Although he still beats unboosted Clefable 1-on-1. Hidden Power Fire is for steel and grass types who otherwise wall Venusaur, Ferrothorn seems to be the most common, which gets me a 2HKO on a very annoying pokemon to most of my team. Synthesis is for more recovery, although this is annoyingly hindered by sandstorm. However, sandstorm has usually finished by the time I need to use it.
Swapped synthesis for leech seed as synthesis is not good in sun. This is the biggest decision to make. Has a fantastic defensive synergy with Tar, Drill and Talon, but llack of offensive presence loses some momentum on what is otherwise a pretty offensive team. However modest nature and Evs help with this. My biggest weakness is rotom-W as it threatens 4 of my team, so this slot needs to be a rotom check at least. Also something to cover water weakness would be nice.. Am going to try Scizor and Gardevoir as per suggestions in the thread but other suggestions and comments would also be appreciated!
​

So that's my team, like I said I'm not new to pokemon but still fairly new to the don't-just-put-6-sweepers-on-your-team idea of competitive battling, so any tips and pointers would be much appreciated! This is actually my second competitive team but my first one sucked so I went back to the drawing board. Here's the importable list if anyone wants to have a test run. Cheers :)



Current testing team below:

import list

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Ice Beam
Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Rapid Spin
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Moonblast
- Stealth Rock
Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

 

[dramadrama]

realy cool team, the change i can suggest is clefable over sylveon. Why?
1. hawlucha switch in
2. can absorb status so you dont have to heal bell, getting your venusaur burned by rotom-w really hurts
3. your team would benifit more from set up sweeper that wish support
4. answer to garchomp and dragonite
5. deals much better with sableye
6. stops offencive (3 atks slack off) Mega Slowbro (you can deal with calm mind)
7. Counter to Mega Lopunny and Gallade
I suggest the set of:
- Calm Mind
- Softboiled
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast/HP ground
id have focus blast or even hp ground for heatran since it walls a big part of your team.

 

[dramadrama]

Your team is also a bit weak to charizard y. For that reason id change talonflame's set to a stallbreaker one. By that you also get an opportunity to burn opposing rotom-w on a switch so your excadrill can sweep faster. The second thing that loves swiching into talonflame is landorus-i. while its not a huge threat the earth plate set can do massive damage. Stallbreaker talonflame could also help out with gengar another annoying mon.

 

[Bendiving]

realy cool team, the change i can suggest is clefable over sylveon. Why?
1. hawlucha switch in
2. can absorb status so you dont have to heal bell, getting your venusaur burned by rotom-w really hurts
3. your team would benifit more from set up sweeper that wish support
4. answer to garchomp and dragonite
5. deals much better with sableye
6. stops offencive (3 atks slack off) Mega Slowbro (you can deal with calm mind)
7. Counter to Mega Lopunny and Gallade
I suggest the set of:
- Calm Mind
- Softboiled
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast/HP ground
id have focus blast or even hp ground for heatran since it walls a big part of your team.

Thanks for the advice! I guess an other advantage is immunity to sandstorm damage. I'll try focus blast as I already have ground coverage x2. The downside is I don't get to wish support starmie and talonflame but I think you're right, the additional checks and counters benefit my team a lot more than wish. I presume you would go Magic Guard, Bold, with investment in HP and Defence?

I know this doesn't really matter on here, but I would like to recreate the team in-game, how does one go about getting softboiled on Clefable... That's the only downside but I guess doesn't matter for showdown anyway. Will try out your suggestion when I get home :)

 

[trikx_insane]

Hey! Nice sand team! Some thoughts/suggestions:

First, use Mega Scizor > Mega Venusaur. Mega Venu is counter-productive when you have it on a sand team, especially when you try to use Synthesis in the sand. Other options are to also try out Mega Gardevoir or Mega Altaria that also appreciated Sand Offense to let them do work. A set like this should do:

Hide

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower / Roost
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance

Secondly, try Ice Beam > Earthquake on Tyranitar by changing the nature to Brave/Relaxed. Your team is very vulnerable to Landorus-T, which is a problem, since it's such a dominent threat and one of the most used pokemon in the metagame, so if you catch Landorus-T on the switch-in to Tyranitar, Ice Beam can do a lot of damage. You can also try the Choice Scarf Set, that way you deal with things like Mega-Charizard Y and other base 110's and below. The set should like:

Hide

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake / Crunch
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide
This is just a suggestion you should try out and see if it works.

Thirdly, is that you should change Sylveon's EV Spread to 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD. This way, you avoid 2HKO's from an Earth Power from Landorus-I. Although you should seriously [please] consider is Clefable > Sylveon. I know you said you like Sylveon better than Clefable on your team, but Clefable fits in better than Sylveon. Magic Guard means it can take status moves and also not take damage from the sandstorm. You don't need Calm Mind, like you said, on Clefable to do work, a moveset of Aromatherapy / Moonblast / Flamethrower (surprises ferrothorn/scizor switch ins) or Thunder Wave or (Stealth Rocks if you use Scarf Ttar) / Softboiled and an EV spread of 252 HP / 160 Def/ 96 SpD will work. Using Clefable will help deal with Rotom-Wash better.
Another problem is Ferrothorn, like you said, which your team is very vulnerable to. You take a lot of recoil damage if you try to use Talonflame against it, and you have to rely on Swords Dance for Excadrill to get pass it in which Ferrothorn can Leech Seed on the turn you SD up. A fix, would be changing Thunderbolt > Hidden Power Fire on Starmie, and you can dish out severe damage on the Ferrothorn switch. Lastly, change Talonflame's EV Spread to Jolly 88 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe. This way you outspeed the most relevant pokemon in the metagame (e.g. Raikou), and have an Odd number HP meaning you can come in on Stealth Rocks 2 times safely.

Hope I helped, good luck with your team ! :] (I also don't know why the guy above me mentions Hawlucha, when it's pretty irrelevant [uncommon] to the metagame [though it is a good and cool mon'] but you have Sand Rush Exca/Talonflame to revenge kill it, lol)

Edit: If you want to know where you can get Softboiled Clefable on cartridge [wifi], you should try here and ask there. The WiFi community on Smogon is a wonderful place to hang out and trade with others, just make sure you don't get in trouble or you'll have a bad reputation. It's also a great place to start a trade thread and trading with others.

 

[Riahi]

Use this set on Talonflame

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Venusaur isn't the best choice for this team, there are way better options.
You don't need ice beam on Starmie, use recover instead.

 

[Disciple_1]

Yo wierd team imo. Why do you have a Starmie as a spinner when excadrill in the sand is one of the best in the business. I would suggest changing Sd to rapid spin on excadrill and changing Starmie to keldeo. Your team does in fact actually benefit from wish support and set-up sweepers like Tail Glow manaphy will make this team cry so I would suggest unaware clefable rather than the magic guard one. It's a reliable cleric and is much more physicaly bulky than sylveon. Talonflames EV's can be changed to 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe with Jolly Nature. This will enable yout Talonflame to speed creep others and KO with Birdspam. Your team seems weak to lando-t and this can be handled by either giving ice beam to ttar or scarf keldeo can easily swat it aside.

Sets

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability : Unaware
EVs : 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell


Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability : Justified
EVs : 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power Flying/ Electric

This is the same set for the Choice Specs version of keldeo. Or you could try the sub-cm set


Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability : Justified
EVs : 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald / Surf
- Secret Sword

Also venu's synthesis won't work in sand so you could change it to Mega Scizor.

Hope I helped :)

 

[dramadrama]

^ guys you know that mega venusaur is on this for a reason. it counters stuff like azumarill or keldeo which would give trouble this team. venusaur works ok on sand team since tyraniatar stops flying types and pursuit traps lati@s

 

[trikx_insane]

^ guys you know that mega venusaur is on this for a reason. it counters stuff like azumarill or keldeo which would give trouble this team. venusaur works ok on sand team since tyraniatar stops flying types and pursuit traps lati@s

Still counterproductive..he's not going to keep M-Venusaur healthy since Synthesis isn't effective in the sand and is repeatedly going to get beat down. Once you make the obvious switch so many times, it's not that hard to predict it. That's why having M-Venu is counterproductive regardless it counters/checks some of the threats to his team

 

[Disciple_1]

^ guys you know that mega venusaur is on this for a reason. it counters stuff like azumarill or keldeo which would give trouble this team. venusaur works ok on sand team since tyraniatar stops flying types and pursuit traps lati@s

It makes sense to have a mega that abuses sandstorm rather than one that is hindered by it. Megagross, Mega Scizor and Mega Garchomp all benefit from the sand especially garchomp thanks to sand force as it's ability

 

[dramadrama]

ok if you want you can put leech seed in place of syntesis, if you want. its not gen 5 when whole team must benifit from the weather you use. Mega Venusaur + Tyranitar is a common core used by many great players. Also its better to have mega venusaur and take sandstorm damage rather that have mega garchomp and get 6-0d by azumarill, keldeo and others.

 

[Bendiving]

Your team is also a bit weak to charizard y. For that reason id change talonflame's set to a stallbreaker one. By that you also get an opportunity to burn opposing rotom-w on a switch so your excadrill can sweep faster. The second thing that loves swiching into talonflame is landorus-i. while its not a huge threat the earth plate set can do massive damage. Stallbreaker talonflame could also help out with gengar another annoying mon.

Thanks again. With togekiss gone I do feel like I am missing a status spreader so I'll take your advice again. I'll edit my first post, changes in bold.

 

[Bendiving]

Wow lot of replies here, thanks everyone, for some reason they hadn't loaded when I replied above. I'll have a proper think in a bit and try out some different sets and see what works the best. Things I will be trying:
sylveon to Clefable
Talonflame's set to jolly or stall breaker
Synthesis to leech seed on venusaur
Mega scizor instead of mega venusaur

I do really like venusaur on the team so keen to see if leech seed is effective. Don't want to go mega garchomp metagross to due weakness amplifying but scizor could work as I have some fire resists

Edit: oh and ice beam on tyranitar too. Is that better than ice punch?

 

[Riahi]

Wow lot of replies here, thanks everyone, for some reason they hadn't loaded when I replied above. I'll have a proper think in a bit and try out some different sets and see what works the best. Things I will be trying:
sylveon to Clefable
Talonflame's set to jolly or stall breaker
Synthesis to leech seed on venusaur
Mega scizor instead of mega venusaur

I do really like venusaur on the team so keen to see if leech seed is effective. Don't want to go mega garchomp metagross to due weakness amplifying but scizor could work as I have some fire resists

The offensive Talonflame set is better for this team.

 

[Bendiving]

Looks like I opened a can of worms haha. Interesting points from both sides, makes a good read. This is all theorymonning now as I can't get on showdown at the minute. But, what I'm thinking of trying first is this:

Have Tyranitar run ice beam and change nature from adamant to brave. Scarf is very tempting and I will try this as he then becomes a great revenge killer & potential sweeper. (Edit: if I go scarf obviously nature will be hasty). However smooth rock may be too useful to swap. I will try it though. & a fast stealth rock also has its merits. Is brave ice beam better than adamant ice punch?

This then allows starmie to run recover instead of ice beam. (I will try HP fire over thunderbolt but then this compounds my water weakness especially if venusaur goes)

As starmie now has recovery, I can drop sylveon in favour of magic guard calm mind Clefable. Moon blast, softboiled, and coverage move. This gives me a setup sweeper and stall breaker, very useful role. (I can also play with flamethrower/HP ground/focus blast depending on what best fits the team after re-jigging the other sets. If I go scarf tar I can try putting stealth rock on Clefable instead.)

As Clefable is now my stall breaker I can still run offensive talonflame, with roost for recovery. I will change to jolly & suggested IVs though. And Clefable can also absorb status negating the need for heal bell. (Talon should still KO charY after rocks and I have tar pursuit trap for gengar.)

That all fits a nice chain and seems like it would work, obviously I need to test to confirm and tweak. Excited about trying these changes!

The final and most difficult choice is the mega slot. I appreciate synthesis is a bad move, so I will try leech seed instead and if that works then great. There are 2 reasons venusaur works, one is his fantastic type synergy with tar and drill and talon and the other is the fact that without him I get utterly fucked by rotom-W, though I guess Clefable helps with this now. I will try scizor too but I really could do with a water resist. Venusaur does tick almost all the boxes but maybe that indicates a problem with the rest of my team. I just need to play some more. Any other viable megas that are good against rotom-w/water mons in general? Maybe something that works well against rain dance teams too? (Edit: doesn't NEED to be a mega)

You guys really have given me lots to think about and the response has been much faster and more in depth than expected, so thanks again :)

 

[Bendiving]

Just re-reading the thread and looking at other megas that have been mentioned. Is mega gardevoir with energy ball viable? Doesn't resist water but checks rotom-w with its high SpDef and doesn't mind too much about burn, energy ball to surprise and kill rotom?
Am I being too paranoid about rotom? It's just that he beats 4 of my team 1 on 1

 

[Riahi]

Just re-reading the thread and looking at other megas that have been mentioned. Is mega gardevoir with energy ball viable? Doesn't resist water but checks rotom-w with its high SpDef and doesn't mind too much about burn, energy ball to surprise and kill rotom?
Am I being too paranoid about rotom? It's just that he beats 4 of my team 1 on 1

Hyper voice deals the same damage as energy ball.

 

[Bendiving]

Hyper voice deals the same damage as energy ball.

Ok thanks.

I've just updated my original post with the proposed changes to try. I don't have the time now but if I get a chance to get on damage calculator and showdown tomorrow I'll do some trial runs and update! In the meantime feel free to keep arguing as it's giving me loads of ideas! Especially on the venusaur situation ;)

 

[trikx_insane]

Ok thanks.

I've just updated my original post with the proposed changes to try. I don't have the time now but if I get a chance to get on damage calculator and showdown tomorrow I'll do some trial runs and update! In the meantime feel free to keep arguing as it's giving me loads of ideas! Especially on the venusaur situation ;)

An ideal Mega-Gardevoir set would be:
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Substitute / Taunt / Will-O-Wisp

OR

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
24 Def EV's allow its to take 2 Life Orb Psyshock from Latios.​