Resource ORAS NU Viability Rankings

[The Goomy]

Double post cause can. Update time.

Regirock C+ ==> B

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[Brawlfest]

Cause Brawlfest and hollywood voted no, so ask them for their opinions on the matter. Tbh I think it can probably see a rise to S in the future if the Normal-type spam continues on the trend its on.

I voted no mainly because of the lack of variability Kangaskhan has and how easily it can be worn down. It's literally IMO the best offensive utility mon in BW / XY / ORAS NU hands down, but imo I don't think it is S. Especially with the comminality of stuff like Xatu, MegaDino, and Garb, kangaskhan can get old.

 

[Adaire]

Ok so I'm not one to really comment on the viability rankings but I think Kadabra should go from C+ --> B. My reason for this is how good it can be at stopping set up sweepers and doing a lot of damage to teams, with focus sash and being immune to entry hazards, this thing is very reliable at being able to either take a hit and do massive damage or just outspeeding with it's nice base speed of 105. Yes thing thing has horrible defences and can't take a hit for anything but this can work on Hyper Offense teams very well. It also has good special attack at 120, here are some calcs which show it's usefulness

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252 SpA Kadabra Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malamar: 272-320 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Kadabra Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Vivillon: 214-253 (71 - 84%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Kadabra Hidden Power Fire vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 142-168 (50 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Yes I know it misses out on OHKO's but with the playstyle of HO you can easily revenge kill the mons with another pokemon which makes this mon in my opinion very worthy of B rank or even B-

 

[Evan.]

now that the updates are done im gonna make more noms n_n

A- => B+/B
Did we forget to put this back after all the broken megas left? Weezing is taken advantage of by 3 of the 4 S-Rank mons and is not worthy of the A- Rank in my opinion. I believe that it's outclassed as a defensive poison type by Garbodor as Garbodor doesn't have nearly as much 4MSS, has the ability to absorb T-Spikes, the ability to lay normal Spikes, as well as a great ability in Aftermath that lets it check physical attackers more effectively. Weezing still as titanic physical bulk and acts as a very good fighting type counter on defensive teams, but is nowhere near the A- Ranking it currently has.

B- => C+
Primeape is pretty bad imo. When you're using Primeape that means that you're probably not using one of the other, better fighting types in NU which provide much more team utility. If I want a Fighting-Type wallbreaker or revenge killer, Sawk is usually the better option due to it's higher damage output and access to knock off. It's only niche is U-turn which doesn't warrant its B- Ranking.

C- => B-/C+
This mon is way better than people are giving credit for and is probably one of the underrated sweepers right now. Access to STAB Gunk Shot, a great boosting move in Coil, Priority, and coverage moves to allow it to get past alot of it's presumed checks. It also sits in a decent offensive speed tier, alongside 2 great abilities that let it set up easier against either offensive or defensive teams. Really deserves a rise imo.

C- => C
Leavanny deserves to be in the same rank as kricketune imo. Now that it has Knock Off + Sticky Web to use, Kricketune and itself are fairly even with the only differences being that Kricketune has access to taunt and endeavor and Leavanny is faster and has a way to block Taunt with Magic Coat. There is really no reason to use one over the other and they deserve the same rank.

A => A+
Scyther really is one of the best mons in the meta right now. It can run a variety of sets including Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Bulky SD, SD Pass and Offensive SD. It's a great check to all the CM Psychics that are running the tier right now as well as a check to most Fighting types as well. It sits in a great speed tier and is one of the hardest hitting mons in the tier. The 4x Stealth Rock Weakness is really the only thing holding it back from S and is one of the scariest mons to play against if it has the right support.

 

[Realistic Waters]

Mantine B --> B+
Despite Mega Steelix and Feralgatr leaving I feel like this hasn't hurt Mantines viability to where it dropped down. It's one of NU best defoggers due to it's great bulk, good typing both offensively and defensively and Water Absorb which partially make up for it's no recovery outside of rest. Fairs well against a lot of the top tier threats particularly Mega Camerupt and Typhlosion. Plenty of options in it's movepool that go well with scald and defog on a defensive set which include toxic, haze, air slash, signal beam, Tailwind, substitute and protect. Even does offense pretty well with rain dance and swift swim. Not to mention that Mantine is easy to build with as it synchronizes well with a lot of mons.

 

[Lolazo]

Ninetales A- --->B/B-

This is a awesome Pokemon and i like it so much, but in the actual metagame exist only little Reason to use this over Typhlosion or Magmortar, also Tales only have STAB + 2 coverage moves (b/c needs NP otherwise is totally outclassed) and with Typhlosion with FF realased is a much better Fire Absorber, also cause FF Typhlosion other Typhlosion or Magmortars would Run EQ and can't bypass popular pokemons like Camerupt and Mantine besides Hidden Power (and is rare because usually needs Energy Ball and Psyshock)

 

[Froggyboy]

Typhlosion would much rather want to run Blaze, so I wouldn't consider it being a better Fire absorber than Ninetales. And Ninetales can definitely bypass Mantine, Scald is only a 2HKO and Ninetales can OHKO with +2 Psyshock after rocks, and Mega Camerupt needs a bit of prior damage to be killed by +2 Energy Ball after rocks and a spike. I don't really know why Ninetales is so high, but your reasoning is flawed.

 

[MANNAT]

tbh, prinplup should be moved up to A- because it can take hits from basically every top-meta threat bar Camerupt.

 

[HJAD]

Scraggy from D+ ===> C+

With every team being forced to run signal beam over dazzling gleam/fairy coverage nowadays the Scraggy Generation 5 resurgence has begun. Its ability to switch into pretty much any psychic type now is a unmistakable quality (assuming they run signal>gleam for mala) as well as the ability to function as a great win-condition for your team to work around since what does counter it, isnt exactly ravaging the meta right now. Apart from M-Audino, ive seen the likes of fairy types (only really 2 others, granbull and togetic) dwindle in numbers. Not only this, but scraggy IS NOT prone to being worn down. My personal favourite set, the SpDef BU set with dual stab and rest, makes great use of its ability shed skin (undeniably its best ability, moxie and intimidate are decent but not shed skin), allowing it to recover semi reliably mid sweep vs a wall that isnt going down in a hurry or if it got statused. It can also run a dragon dance set if you are worried about hyper offensive tea,s. Not much being used in the current meta beats it, sure it does need a turn or two to be really threatening, but theres no mistaking, scraggy is thriving in a current meta. Besides, dont tell me this mon is the same rank as Dusclops. Come on.

Mr. Mime from C ===> B/B+
This thing is crazy powerful, fast and overall a solid settup sweeper / wall breaker to use in the current meta. I have been dabbling recently with a life orb Nasty Plot set, and i must say, its easier to settup that i originally thought. With the meta shifting to use more offensive fire checks than hariyama (just typhlosion tbh) there is no longer a sense that Mr. Mime is constantly in check by hariyama. It doesnt really get walled by any mon in particular. Since Hidden Power [anything] at +2 with a life orb is a decent ohko. This can be used to great effect by using certain hidden powers to lure certain mons for your settup sweepers to abuse. For example i could use hidden power electric to lure mantine, hidden power water for mega camel and hidden power fighting for steels and audino. Technician really does help its coverage out. A lot. Also, its standard non-hidden power coverage is pretty strong itself. Its dual stab, stuff like focus blast and thunderbolt really does add to the scare factor. You could also run a specs set with trick if you really wanted. It also provides a nice and solid 4x resist to fighting (albeit its defence is p shite) and can check them easily. This mon i feel, is just as criminally underrated as scraggster420 and needs more love.

 

[Ares]

Scraggy from D+ ===> C+

With every team being forced to run signal beam over dazzling gleam/fairy coverage nowadays the Scraggy Generation 5 resurgence has begun. Its ability to switch into pretty much any psychic type now is a unmistakable quality (assuming they run signal>gleam for mala) as well as the ability to function as a great win-condition for your team to work around since what does counter it, isnt exactly ravaging the meta right now. Apart from M-Audino, ive seen the likes of fairy types (only really 2 others, granbull and togetic) dwindle in numbers. Not only this, but scraggy IS NOT prone to being worn down. My personal favourite set, the SpDef BU set with dual stab and rest, makes great use of its ability shed skin (undeniably its best ability, moxie and intimidate are decent but not shed skin), allowing it to recover semi reliably mid sweep vs a wall that isnt going down in a hurry or if it got statused. It can also run a dragon dance set if you are worried about hyper offensive tea,s. Not much being used in the current meta beats it, sure it does need a turn or two to be really threatening, but theres no mistaking, scraggy is thriving in a current meta. Besides, dont tell me this mon is the same rank as Dusclops. Come on.

Can you post some replays using it pls, I like scraggy just as much as the next Raseri but I want some proof of it working before moving it up. As a user earlier wanted to remove it entirely, but raseri topped the ladder with just scrafty to convince me to keep it ranked.

 

[Punchshroom]

For example i could use hidden power electric to lure mantine

Its dual stab, stuff like focus blast and thunderbolt really does add to the scare factor

If you acknowledge the existence of TBolt then why even bring up Tech HP Electric >.>

tbh, prinplup should be moved up to A- because it can take hits from basically every top-meta threat bar Camerupt.

Taking hits is one thing, but the main thing that always held Prinplup back is its complete lack of recovery. This means Prinplup can be pressured when it comes to both using Defog and setting up Stealth Rock successfully, and also means it must pick its battles carefully.

 

[Raseri]

Few nominations to make

Armaldo from D- -> C

Armaldo isnt 100% outclassed by Kabutops anymore, so it has a niche on rain teams as a Rapid Spinner. On top of that, stab X-Scissor means it can be a decent malamar check and CM psychic check. It isnt a great Pokemon, but I think its enough to warrant C or C- ranking, D- is far to low

Butterfree from D -> Unranked
its niche in tinted lens is so small I literally would never consider it for a serious team, otherwise it is 100% outclassed by Vivillon.

I think a lot of the lower ranks should be removed, so that only Pokemon with a niche on a serious team stay on the rankings, right now its a lot of garbage that 1 person hyped and then it remains on the rankings permanently. It should be cleaned up :)

 

[Mistrals]

I think a lot of the lower ranks should be removed, so that only Pokemon with a niche on a serious team stay on the rankings, right now its a lot of garbage that 1 person hyped and then it remains on the rankings permanently. It should be cleaned up :)

I have to agree with this 100%, a lot of the mons I see in the D ranks are horrible mons that I would certainly advise players not to use, and many of them have no effective niche. Heck, I'm pretty sure I've tried to get Throh and Lumineon off the list because of how useless they are.

Mons I'd suggest to remove entirely are:
Glaceon, which is all but completely outclassed by even mediocre mons. Even with that special attack stat it's lack of coverage would make me just use mons like Lapras or Regice which I wouldn't even use 99% of the time because Aurorus exists.
Bastiodon, which doesn't really do anything except for metal burst(which is easy as heck to take advantage of), toxic, set rocks, and roar things(and for those last 3 there's a bunch of mons that can do it's job better). It's lack of any offensive pressure makes it pretty easy to take advantage of or get around, and it doesn't really have anything amazing defensively to get around this. Is anyone going to use this on a serious team over the mediocre Probopass or a bunch of better phazers?
Lumineon, because it's only niche over better defoggers in Mantine, Prinplup, Swanna, and Pelipper is U-turn, and otherwise it's a lot worse, plus all of those mons I mentioned have a lot more things going for them over this mediocre mon. Again, I don't believe anyone would ever actually use this mon over many better options that have more effective tricks.
Throh, because it's literally completely outclassed in everything it does and there is no reason to ever use this mon ever. It's incredibly weak with it's STAB because it's best option is the mediocre circle throw, which makes it feeling glaringly weak compared to every decent fighting type in the tier baring Gurdurr which has eviolite, drain punch, and mach punch in it's favour, and Poliwrath, which has water typing and scald and stuff. An av set is completely outclassed by Hariyama, a guts set is completely outclassed by hariyama and gurdurr, a mold breaker set is outclassed by sawk, a cb set is outclassed by sawk and hariyama, a bulk up set is outclassed by gurdurr, a rest talk set is outclassed by poliwrath, and a phazing set is outclassed by poliwrath. There is absolutely no reason to use a Throh and I really don't understand why it's still listed.
Mightyena has absolutely nothing going for it outside of having moxie. It's stats are terrible and it lacks enough raw power to ever become threatening and is just easy stopped by all sorts of physically bulky pokemon in the tier. Offensively a Liepard, Sneasel, Pawniard, or Cacturne sounds much more enticing because they actually can do things. 70 base speed makes it easily revenged, sucker punch or not, 90 attack is mediocre in combination with it's weak moves(lol it's best stab is crunch), it lacks even knock off or pursuit, and 70/70/60 bulk is pretty underwhelming too. I can't see anyone actually seriously using this mon, let alone effectively.
Does Frillish even do anything worthwhile aside from like countering(I'm assuming grass knot doesn't do that much) Samurott if it doesn't have knock off, which I mean Mantine and Lanturn exist, among other mons
Also is there really any reason to ever use Simisear over Ninetales (or other fire types) unless you really want to outspeed Dodrio and Miltank with your nasty plot mon?
Since I've never used them seriously, does anyone know if Murkrow, Misdreavus, Wigglytuff, Pignite, Volbeat or Yanma have any worthwhile use or were they just put on here because some person was hyping them and nobody cared enough to disagree, because they all seem pretty terrible on paper.

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Claydol to B+ and Cryogonal to B
This is more off of observation then anything, though I think Claydol does deserve to be B+ from what I've used of it. Claydol is the best spinner in the tier right now, and deserves to be ranked as such here imo. It's a nice middle ground between our other two main spinners, has useful resists/immunities to edgequake and fighting despite it's awful weaknesses, hits decently hard, has a decent speed stat, beats a lot of common hazard mons with various coverage moves, and has solid bulk. It's not too difficult to fit on teams either. However, Cryogonal has been very lacklustre as of late, and has been seeing less and less usage as of late. It hasn't been very effective in the current metagames, especially with things like M-camel and Ferroseed being very common, and of course it sucks to be sr weak. I don't really have much to say, but I've just noticed that it's really not that effective right now and it's popularity has nosedived as a result.

 

[CanadianWifier]

stuff

quick skim and I'm agreeing with all but Lumineon. Not a great Pokemon, but it has a niche with U-turn + Water immunity which I believe allows it to be a D rank mon as opposed to an E rank mon.

 

[Evan.]

quick skim and I'm agreeing with all but Lumineon. Not a great Pokemon, but it has a niche with U-turn + Water immunity which I believe allows it to be a D rank mon as opposed to an E rank mon.

ik how much you love lumineon tcw, but Pelipper does everything that it does better with U-turn, alongside reliable recovery and an extra flying typing to help it beat fighting types.

 

[Jim E. Russler]

Since I've never used them seriously, does anyone know if Murkrow, Misdreavus, Wigglytuff, Pignite, Volbeat or Yanma have any worthwhile use or were they just put on here because some person was hyping them and nobody cared enough to disagree, because they all seem pretty terrible on paper.

Pignite has a niche as a switch in to firespam because of Thick Fat, Eviolite and its natural resistance.

 

[Aasgier]

Volbeat is used on weather teams often to set Prankster Sunny Day/Rain Dance, same for Murkrow. They also have Prankster T-Wave, Prankster Encore and access to U-Turn.

Misdreavus is just a good bit bulkier than Mismagius with Eviolite, but however, the things it countered in Gen V now have a boosted Knock Off making Missy a lot shakier, but still has its niches when you need the bulk more than Mismagius' extra speed and power.

 

[Teddeh]

Bouffalant to B+ / A- pls
sap sipper is literally godly, amazing bulk + stab, coverage options, psychic check, normal types don't have that many switch ins, it beats mawile, kk, struggles against rhydon but at +2 EQ hurts. Definitely deserves a bump up

 

[Deej Dy]

I definitely agree to drop Frillish, now that it's niche of stopping Gatr without crunch is gone, it is practically useless.

I agree dropping Pignite, as so many other mons do its job as a fire resist better and it is completely underwhelming once it actually comes time to attack , and also Typh has extrasensory which does 41-49% even with max investment and eviolite.

I disagree dropping Simisear, it is faster than Ninetales and has 15 more Base Spc. Attack off the bat (98 compared to Ninetales 81) to go along with the Blaze ability.

I disagree dropping Throh because its bulk is beastly and it has a solid role as a bulk up sweeper/phaser with Circle-Throw. I think this thing actually has more potential than its current rank.

I'm heavily biased towards Butterfree so I'll stay off that topic, Yanma also seems like a likely option to leave.

 

[Mistrals]

I disagree dropping Throh because its bulk is beastly and it has a solid role as a bulk up sweeper/phaser with Circle-Throw. I think this thing actually has more potential than its current rank.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Throh: 358-423 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 328-387 (85.4 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Throh: 156-184 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- 77.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Poliwrath: 151-178 (39.3 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's a got a 4-5% difference on taking hits with the same investment, which in exchange Poliwrath has resistances to ice and fire and a water immunity.
A rest talk bulk up set(which the only reason this isn't outclassed by Poliwrath is guts) is also walled completely by an entire typing, which is pretty bad, especially with Rotom now seeing a ton of usage and there's still mons like Mismagius, Haunter, Drifblim, Gourgeist, and Golurk around, all of which are perfectly viable in this tier.

 

[Deej Dy]

252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Throh: 358-423 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 328-387 (85.4 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Throh: 156-184 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- 77.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Poliwrath: 151-178 (39.3 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's a got a 4-5% difference on taking hits with the same investment, which in exchange Poliwrath has resistances to ice and fire and a water immunity.
A rest talk bulk up set(which the only reason this isn't outclassed by Poliwrath is guts) is also walled completely by an entire typing, which is pretty bad, especially with Rotom now seeing a ton of usage and there's still mons like Mismagius, Haunter, Drifblim, Gourgeist, and Golurk around, all of which are perfectly viable in this tier.

What are you talking about... It has knock off for ghosts, and what calcs are you trying to prove? It usually takes with spc def hits not Choice Banded Fighting Hits? I know you're trying to sell your point, but use relevant calcs... You don't see me calcing Frillish taking a grass hit from Ludicolo do you?

It's niche over wrath is Guts with sleep talk and knock off. I'd personally like to see it rise. It about to be banned in PU over Wrath (which is a different metagame, but just thought you should know its power)

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Vileplume should be higher than B+, it's just really that good. There's nothing else that can wall the same pokemon with the same offensive presence. For example it walls Sawk, Gurdurr, Mega Audino, Hariyama, Lilligant, Liepard, Rhydon, Seismitoad... list goes on. Free switchins on a lot of common stuff pretty much. Meanwhile it has 110 base SpAtk with STAB Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain, which is a godly defensive typing at that. Those moves also have great side effects with no drawbacks. Sleep Powder is also usually free as nothing really wants to absorb it barring Ferroseed and Magmortar. There's enough ways to hit it hard (Typhlosion, Scyther, Jynx etc) but none of those mons can come in on a Sludge Bomb so they usually have to revenge kill. You can put Vileplume on any team and it will do well, that's pretty much the definition of A rank so it should move up imo.

 

[Mistrals]

What are you talking about... It has knock off, and what calcs are you trying to prove? It usually takes with spc def hits not Choice Banded Fighting Hits? I know you're trying to sell your point, but use relevant calcs... You don't see me calcing Frillish taking a grass hit from Ludicolo do you?

???
I picked a calc on the physical side to show comparable bulk in that department and a special bulk to show comparable bulk on that side..

I disagree dropping Throh because its bulk is beastly and it has a solid role as a bulk up sweeper/phaser

If it's running bulk up phaser, it has no room for said knock off and a pure bulk up sweeper set is outclassed by Gurdurr. If it's running knock off/circle throw then not only is knock off doing very little to most common psychics is doesn't really have mucch in it's favour over other phazers like Poliwrath and Zweilous.

Volbeat is used on weather teams often to set Prankster Sunny Day/Rain Dance, same for Murkrow. They also have Prankster T-Wave, Prankster Encore and access to U-Turn.

And both of those, especially Murkrow, have no reason to be used over Liepard.

 

[Deej Dy]

Sorry, I assumed you knew I was referring to multiple sets other than the simple Bulk up phaser set, it was just one example. One of Throhs best sets has Rest, Sleep Talk, Knock off, Circle Throw/Storm Throw that is quite good besides just a bulk up sweeper set as it has 1.5 the attack when it is asleep and it extremely difficult to KO it.

The niche it has over Gurdurr is superior Special Defence and it can hold an item other than Eviolite such as lefties, Chesto, or a Toxic Orb. I'm not saying it's better than Gurdurr I'm saying that it fulfills some roles that Gurdurr cannot.

Also its knock-off isn't weak...it has only 5 less base attack than Gurdurr.

I realize I may have gotten a little defensive with my first post (sorry), but I truly think Throh has a solid niche.

 

[Fling]

Vileplume should be higher than B+, it's just really that good. There's nothing else that can wall the same pokemon with the same offensive presence. For example it walls Sawk, Gurdurr, Mega Audino, Hariyama, Lilligant, Liepard, Rhydon, Seismitoad... list goes on. Free switchins on a lot of common stuff pretty much. Meanwhile it has 110 base SpAtk with STAB Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain, which is a godly defensive typing at that. Those moves also have great side effects with no drawbacks. Sleep Powder is also usually free as nothing really wants to absorb it barring Ferroseed and Magmortar. There's enough ways to hit it hard (Typhlosion, Scyther, Jynx etc) but none of those mons can come in on a Sludge Bomb so they usually have to revenge kill. You can put Vileplume on any team and it will do well, that's pretty much the definition of A rank so it should move up imo.

You are kinda exaggerating how good plume is. Saying it walls mega audino is not true seen as it is known to carry fblast and if you're not offensive im p sure it sets up on you. Walling seismitoad is no great feat and sawk definitely 2hkoes with a boosting item. Also psychic types are v popular which is bad news for plume. Dont really know how to feel on its ranking but its certainly not the god you're making it out to be.