Gorebyss [QC 3/3] [GP 0/3]

MANNAT

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[OVERVIEW]

Typing:


Abilities: Swift Swim / Hydration

Stats: 55 HP / 84 Atk / 105 Def / 114 SpA / 75 SpD / 52 Spe / 485 BST

First of all, Shell Smash Allows Gorebyss to rack up major offensive boosts that can result in a decimated opposing team. Baton Pass allows Gorebyss to Pass its Shell Smash Boosts to Powerful teammates that have more sweeping potential than it. Gorebyss has more coverage moves to use than just its STAB moves, unlike some other sweepers in RU. Mono Water is a great defensive typing that can offer resists to many common attacking types in RU, allowing Gorebyss to set up easily on some Pokemon. Sadly, it is actually very frail on the special side and has low HP, so it cannot take many special hits without dying quickly or getting its substitutes broken. Gorebyss has an extremely low speed tier that lets it be outsped by almost every relevant threat without boosts by Shell Smash or rain, even in RU. Gorebyss is really predictable in the moveset that it has as it will almost always be running shell smash and baton pass, and the opponent can exploit that information in their favor. Gorebyss is simple, predictable, and effective when used properly.

[SET]
name: Smash Pass
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Scald / Ice Beam
ability: Swift Swim
item: White Herb
evs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
To start things off, Shell Smash is a great boosting move that can turn almost any attacker in the tier into a terrifying sweeper with a baton pass. Baton Pass is a great move that allows Gorebyss to turn any teammate into a monstrous sweeper after a Shell Smash boost is passed to them. Substitute is an excellent move that allows Gorebyss to dodge status as well as letting teammates sponge attacks comfortably after the baton pass, and it acts as a nice buffer against priority. The last move can be basically whichever water STAB move that you prefer using and is really only used when Gorebyss can cleanly knock out the Pokemon that is in front of it without being KO'd immediately afterwards, but the preferred option is almost always scald because it can burn opponents and ease setup vs physical attackers. Lastly, Ice Beam is a nice option to use over sub that can let Gorebyss take out grass types after a shell smash if you want to go for a more offensive approach.

Set Details
========
The speed EVs allow Gorebyss to outspeed non-max speed Banette, Clawitzer, and Elektross so that you can quickly set up a substitute or pass off your boosts to a teammate against these mons before they can attack. The HP EVs allow Gorebyss to have substitutes with as much HP as it possibly can and are set to a nice residual damage number for last ditch switch ins with rocks up on the field. Another note is that the 0 Atk IVs are there so that foul play shenanagains don't break subs as easily and let Gorebyss set up a lot easier. Lastly, Timid nature helps for out speeding other Gorebyss and base 80 speed Choice Scarf users after a Shell smash boost.

Usage Tips
========
It is good to bring Gorebyss in against a slower support Pokemon, as Gorebyss can quickly set up a substitute and shell smash(es) before the opponent can move. Choice locked Fire, Water, and Ice Types are super easy for Gorebyss to come in on and use its setup moves against because it resists their STAB moves. Try to knock out the opponent if there are no obvious priority moves that can kill Gorebyss on the other team and if the opponent is a threat to your intended baton pass recipient. Alolomola is a pretty decent opponent to set up on as it has weak and resisted moves to use vs Gorebyss and Gorebyss can set up a substitute against it to dodge status. Don't try to set up on known taunt users as they can completely kill your team's momentum if they use taunt on Gorebyss, and many of them can take water moves comfortably. Another imporant note is that you should only set up sub if you know it won't immediately get broken by the opponent. Try to set up sub on predicted switches if you can. Don't try to set up on something like Tangrowth that obviously kills you.

Team Options
========
This set really needs powerful sweepers to pass off to that don't have great boosting options or cannot use their boosting moves effectively like Emboar, Delphox, and Exploud. Emboar and fire types in general specifically are really nice because they can absorb incoming Grass-type moves for Gorebyss. Ground-types and Grass-types like Dugtrio and Virizion respectively can absorb electric type moves that are coming the way of Gorebyss and proceed to sweep the opposing team. Exploud is probably one of the best possible partners that this set can have, if not the best partner because it can take a hit, then smash through the tier with scrappy boomburst and its coverage moves. This set is usually is featured on offensive teams as it passes offensive boosts to its teammates. This set really appreaciates Memento support from Dugtrio, and it really does help Gorebyss set up a lot easier, as well as preserving sweeps. Also, Xatu is a really nice teammate because magic bounce protects the team from moves like roar, haze, taunt etc.
Lastly, Anything that can provide reliable dual screens support is really nice for the same reasons as Dugtrio with Memento such as Mesprit, Uxie, and Bronzong.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
########
A fully offensive set can be used on Gorebyss, but it is almost completely outclassed by Omastar in its role because of Omastar has a better offensive dual typing and better offensive stats. Focus Sash can be used as a guaranteed chance to shell smash for Gorebyss, but it makes sub useless and the defensive drops from Shell Smash are passed off to teammates. Hidden Power Grass can be used to hit opposing water types over substitute, but Ice Beam and a water-type STAB move generally have better coverage overall if you want to have a more offensive set. Lastly, Gorebyss can try to pass defensive boosts like barrier and amnesia, but passing Shell Smash is almost always a way better option. Also, mental herb can be used to make it so that you can set up once without being taunted or encored, but you have to pass the defensive drops onto teammates..

Checks & Counters
########
**Phasers** These Pokemon can obviously use phasing moves to get rid of sub in the case of roar and whirlwind and boosts that Gorebyss has accumulated as well as basically making white herb a useless item after it is used, and the best way to deal with these is to wear them down until they die. Most of these mons lose to Gorebyss, but Gorebyss can't set up on them. The only real mons that can phase out or get rid of Gorebyss' boosts are dragon tail Druddigon, Clear Smog Amoongus, and Haze Mantine.

** Bulky Water Types** If you are using a more offensive set, then bulky waters can take hits from you fairly easily and you're better off baton passing to a teammate. Jellicent in particular can straight up wall Gorebyss and even taunt it to stop it from passing.

**Fast Scarf Users** Most quick scarfers can outspeed and KO Gorebyss easily with their more powerful moves, even at +2 speed. Rotom-C in particular can outspeed and kill Gorebyss in one hit with either of its STAB moves even if Gorebyss has a shell smash up.

**Slow, Powerful Tanks** These mons may not outspeed Gorebyss at +2, but their damage output scares Gorebyss from switching out to teammates in fear of them being KO'd. Bronzong specifically, can trick room to use your boosts against you, and he can gyro ball the incoming teammate, doing a lot of damage factoring in the speed boost.
 
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In overview, mention that Gorebyss is really predictable, as 99% of the time it'll be running a shell smash + baton pass set, and you can make plays to counter it. Definitely mention Exploud in team options, at +2 special attack that thing literally can KO the entire tier.
 
Remove "Abomasnow's Blizzard" too, as it doesn't even matter if it resists it, because Gorebyss is just hard walled by Abomasnow and Abomasnow can beat it regardless if it resists Blizzard.
 

MANNAT

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Remove "Abomasnow's Blizzard" too, as it doesn't even matter if it resists it, because Gorebyss is just hard walled by Abomasnow and Abomasnow can beat it regardless if it resists Blizzard.
Remove typhlosion from overview...put delphox I guess.
In overview, mention that Gorebyss is really predictable, as 99% of the time it'll be running a shell smash + baton pass set, and you can make plays to counter it. Definitely mention Exploud in team options, at +2 special attack that thing literally can KO the entire tier.
Added to the OP
 
Checks and counters really needs to be beefed up a bit more, mention stuff like haze, taunt, and encore.
team options need to be beefed up to, you only have emboar, virizion, and mega camerupt
is there a reason why gorebyss is timid? don't know off the top of my head what that outspeeds at +2 or +0, but you really have to explain the particular ev spreads and what they achieve (more examples)
mention under moves that sub acts as nice buffer against priority
in overview I'd probably take out "resists fire blast from delphox and flare blitz from emboar" because it's literally 2HKOed by both moves despite resisting them

252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gorebyss: 156-183 (49.6 - 58.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 155-183 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
 

MANNAT

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Checks and counters really needs to be beefed up a bit more, mention stuff like haze, taunt, and encore.
team options need to be beefed up to, you only have emboar, virizion, and mega camerupt
is there a reason why gorebyss is timid? don't know off the top of my head what that outspeeds at +2 or +0, but you really have to explain the particular ev spreads and what they achieve (more examples)
mention under moves that sub acts as nice buffer against priority
in overview I'd probably take out "resists fire blast from delphox and flare blitz from emboar" because it's literally 2HKOed by both moves despite resisting them

252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gorebyss: 156-183 (49.6 - 58.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 155-183 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
Ok, I'll put it in WIP for a while and fix up the analysis.

Edit: Done
 
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uh in C&C you really need to give more examples.
sentences such as "can prevent gorebyss from setting up and limits it to one or two moves, essentially disabling the set that Gorebyss is using." won't let the reader understand a thing if he/she is inexperienced, you need to give examples of pokemon that can actually taunt it, instead of telling us what taunt does.

also you still need to mention specifics as to what the ev spread outspeeds, so instead of saying "The speed EVs allow Gorebyss to outspeed slower Pokemon before the boost and faster ones after it so that you can quickly sub up or pass off your boosts to a teammate.", you should phrase it like "maximum speed evs allow gorebyss to outspeed pokemon x, y, and z, while also being able to outspeed pokemon w after a shell smash boost". adding one partner to team options isn't exactly called beefing it up, you're still missing out on really good partners such as exploud and delphox. usage tips is also kinda wrong, it can sometimes be nice to set up a sub on something to scout what moves it has, or if it switches. definitely change the phrasing there.

edit: under set details you said timid is for outspeeding opposing gorebyss lol
 
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aVocado

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This is good for the most part. In usage tips, put a point on to never set up if you suspect the opponent has a Whimsiott with Encore; it'll just fuck you over. Mention Alomomola as a pokemon you can set up on. In usage tips, stress out that Timid outspeeds choice scarf base 80 users with +speed; modest doesn't. I'd be in favour of removing modest entirely tbh and making it in set details only; this set is supposed to pass and not entirely sweep on its own even if it's capable of doing so. That being said I also don't like Surf, when is it ever better than Scald? does it nab any specific kills that scald doesn't? if so mention them, otherwise remove the slash and make it just Scald / Hydro Pump. There is a point in overview about it having good coverage but I find that misleading, all it has is water + ice coverage and then hidden power, and it wont have time for all 3 + smashpass/sub so yeah. I'm unsure of having a point dedicated to its abilities in the overview; they're so very situational because rain isn't common at all, so you could do with removing that as well.

Team options is a real mess though lol, the content of it is fine but it just looks.. really messy. First of all; remove the point about hazard removal and support, they don't seem necessary to me. Stress out Exploud as a partner, it got some bulk to come in and take 1 hit and then just dominate. Remove Mega Camerupt. Mention Dugtrio when mentioning Memento support. You could probably put some more smashpass receipents maybe but I guess it looks fine.

Finally, in C&C, replace the Encore point with Whimsicott. It's literally the only Encore user that Gorebyss really has to watch out for. I'm not sure about adding phasers or haze users either; most common phasers are rhyperior and steelix which would lose to it anyway (i guess mentioning the fact that you potentially cant set up on them for that reason is worth nothing though) and haze golbat is pretty irrelevant right now, so yeah..

**Taunt Users** Liepard, Exploud, Qwilfish, and Whimsicott are all taunt users that can prevent gorebyss from setting up and limits it to one or two moves, essentially disabling the set that Gorebyss is using, and they usually match up well vs Gorebyss anyways.
Remove Liepard and Exploud. The former is irrelevant while the latter never runs Taunt normally. Emphasize on Whimsicott again because priority Taunt.


QC approved 1/3

littlelucario
 

MANNAT

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This is good for the most part. In usage tips, put a point on to never set up if you suspect the opponent has a Whimsiott with Encore; it'll just fuck you over. Mention Alomomola as a pokemon you can set up on. In usage tips, stress out that Timid outspeeds choice scarf base 80 users with +speed; modest doesn't. I'd be in favour of removing modest entirely tbh and making it in set details only; this set is supposed to pass and not entirely sweep on its own even if it's capable of doing so. That being said I also don't like Surf, when is it ever better than Scald? does it nab any specific kills that scald doesn't? if so mention them, otherwise remove the slash and make it just Scald / Hydro Pump. There is a point in overview about it having good coverage but I find that misleading, all it has is water + ice coverage and then hidden power, and it wont have time for all 3 + smashpass/sub so yeah. I'm unsure of having a point dedicated to its abilities in the overview; they're so very situational because rain isn't common at all, so you could do with removing that as well.

Team options is a real mess though lol, the content of it is fine but it just looks.. really messy. First of all; remove the point about hazard removal and support, they don't seem necessary to me. Stress out Exploud as a partner, it got some bulk to come in and take 1 hit and then just dominate. Remove Mega Camerupt. Mention Dugtrio when mentioning Memento support. You could probably put some more smashpass receipents maybe but I guess it looks fine.

Finally, in C&C, replace the Encore point with Whimsicott. It's literally the only Encore user that Gorebyss really has to watch out for. I'm not sure about adding phasers or haze users either; most common phasers are rhyperior and steelix which would lose to it anyway (i guess mentioning the fact that you potentially cant set up on them for that reason is worth nothing though) and haze golbat is pretty irrelevant right now, so yeah..



Remove Liepard and Exploud. The former is irrelevant while the latter never runs Taunt normally. Emphasize on Whimsicott again because priority Taunt.


QC approved 1/3

littlelucario
Do you think that this is ready to update Arikado?
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
Checks & Counters
########
**Phasers** Such as ? The rest is self-explanatory, but i'd limit it very specifically to phazers that actually tank +2 gorebyss. Mantine is a good Haze mention. SpD drudd? clear smog amoonguss? w/e i'm not the writer

** Bulky Water Types** Idk if i like this, at all, because you just pass on their asses and probably Sub on them too. I guess Toad isn't pass-bait and can wall Gorebyss to an extent? Slowking should really be up there for the most part; i guess CM can be annoying because you can't just wantonly sub on it, it can boost back, whatever, this still seems like it's either phazing you or lolbait.

**Taunt Users**If you want to mention Taunt users, mention Cott (except you did that down there so take it out imo) and just mention Taunt users can come in on a Sub and reject Gorebyss; preventing it from setting up right on top of them is...who cares? If that's worth mentioning, so is anything else that beats gorebyss 1v1, which is a long and irrelevant list.

**Whimsicott** Whimsicott is the ultimate pain for Gorebyss, and its very presence stops Gorebyss from settung up. It can lock Gorebyss into one of its setup (or non-damaging moves) (non-damaging moves are setup and BP, the latter of which can't really be encored if something else is alive; do you mean Scald? just say damaging moves at that point) and give a sweeper on the other team a chance to blow through my team and get off priority taunts that can stop Gorebyss from baton passing, even at +2 speed.

Quagsire might be worth mentioning, as he might just wall your passee. Depends on if you have a special receiver or nah. This is more questionable though.

Scarf Rotom-C outspeeds at +2 and OHKOes. In fact, any faster scarfer is worth mentionining for the most part.

Probably something about just strong attackers that can tank Gorebyss and as such make BPing dangerous with their strong attacks.
 

aVocado

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Just a few things on your write-up, I know I'm not gp or anything but this should improve the quality a bit before GP start doing their job.

On the overview, you really don't need two paragraphs. I know you're dividing it so that the 1st paragraph has its pros and the 2nd has its cons, but you could easily merge them. Start by removing the "However, not everything is so good for Gorebyss." part and simply replacing it with "Sadly,".. which should make it look like this: "..allowing Gorebyss to set up easily on some Pokemon. Sadly, it is frail on the special side and has low HP.." and then you continue.

In moves, you start it off (hue) by saying "To start it off" which is fine I guess. But in set details, usage tips, and team options you all start them off by saying "First of all", so you should do something about that lol. You don't have to have an opening phrase, just going straight to the point isn't a bad option.

Other stuff look fine over a glance though, good stuff littlelucario but u should edit the thread title to reflect that u actually wrote it up n_n
 

MANNAT

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Just a few things on your write-up, I know I'm not gp or anything but this should improve the quality a bit before GP start doing their job.

On the overview, you really don't need two paragraphs. I know you're dividing it so that the 1st paragraph has its pros and the 2nd has its cons, but you could easily merge them. Start by removing the "However, not everything is so good for Gorebyss." part and simply replacing it with "Sadly,".. which should make it look like this: "..allowing Gorebyss to set up easily on some Pokemon. Sadly, it is frail on the special side and has low HP.." and then you continue.

In moves, you start it off (hue) by saying "To start it off" which is fine I guess. But in set details, usage tips, and team options you all start them off by saying "First of all", so you should do something about that lol. You don't have to have an opening phrase, just going straight to the point isn't a bad option.

Other stuff look fine over a glance though, good stuff littlelucario but u should edit the thread title to reflect that u actually wrote it up n_n
Thanks for the suggestions, I've updated everything to conform with what you asked, and it really does look a lot better now.
 

-kal-

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Not QC but I think Ice Beam should be slashed over sub. It can allow you to beat Taunt Noivern when players think that you do not carry an ice-type move coverage. It also has the added benefit of hitting Rotom-C and Flygon all in one moveslot(on the switch tho).
You can mention how Scald can burn foes that can ease setup for Gorebyss
Also, remove mentions of the recently departed pokemons.
In team options, do not say lake trios as only Mesprit and Uxie can be used.
In oo, put in Mental Herb as it allows you to boost safely once without getting taunted or encored.
In C&C, mention Jellicent in the bulky water-type as it straight up walls it but also mention that Jellicent cannot do much in stopping Gorebyss from passing. In C&C in general you should give some more examples as players would like to know what specific mons can stop Gorebyss
The format is also outdated
Please use this to refer on the new format
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-new-analysis-formatting-guide.3537802/
 
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