Metagame NP: RU Stage 7: Of Moons, Birds, and Monsters (BOTH SUSPECTS BANNED, DISCUSSING NEW META)

[aVocado]

Right now I don't think there really is a standard. I know quite a few people who like max hp/max attack adamant, others who like max hp/max spdef, and I've faced both those spreads on the ladder quite often. It's commonly agreed on that the Curse set is max hp/max spdef though.

 

[Nails]

It needs some sdef for sure, and investing in its defenses outside of maybe a + nature is a waste because you're still not tanky enough to eat super effective attacks. I've been using something like max hp/[56/96/136]+ att/rest split between sdef and speed. Defensive spreads should be team dependant though, and I could see using impish lix on some teams.

 

[lighthouses]

As far as ladder goes i'd say the standard is the max atk set, at least it's the one i've been seeing the most.

 

[Gary]

The SpD set is very good on more balanced teams as well as on the Curse sets, but in my opinion on more bulky offensive teams investing more in Attack is the way to go, because Mega Steelix can often be a bitch to switch into. I usually run enough Speed to creep Rhyperior, sometimes running a bit more just to catch those Doublade but creeping much more is pretty much pointless and compromises your Attack. You should at least run a few Speed EVs because many Mega Camerupts often run enough Speed for Slowking, so not investing in any at all can fuck you 1v1 vs Mega Camel which is annoying. Then I usually just give it max HP then throw the rest in Attack. I just really enjoy its combination of great bulk and surprising power.

 

[complete legitimacy]

nails still makin spreads

 

[Sebberball]

Without Gatr lurking in RU and moltres' eternal flames being extinguished,I'm believe that torterra will be great in this meta, for the reason that both of its biggest checks are dead, so more of its power sets can be used without the fear of an ice punch or a fire blast from either Gatr/molthree he will be a prominent check to a lot of RU threats. (If I just said something stupid, just say :D)

 

[Froggyboy]

I don't see Torterra doing well in the current meta. Sure it's a bit better, but with the departure of Gatr and Molt, Pokemon like Durant and Emboar also got better, and screw over Torterra. Though I guess Steelix and the rise of Cobalion is useful for it, Pokemon that screw over Torterra are also happy in this meta.

 

[Ramplestilskin]

With the release of Snow Warning Amaura, and with it Snow Warning Aurorus, do you think Hail can become a thing in RU now (considering Abomasnow is already a huge threat, no longer bothered by Moltres) ?

 

[aVocado]

With the release of Snow Warning Amaura, and with it Snow Warning Aurorus, do you think Hail can become a thing in RU now (considering Abomasnow is already a huge threat, no longer bothered by Moltres) ?

As long as hail isn't permanent, it'll never be a thing, as sad as that sounds. It was always my favourite thing to play with since Abomasnow's introduction in dpp :[

I guess hail + rotom-fridge could have some merit but it'll probably never be that relevant, especially since aurorus, abomasnow, and to an extent rotom-fridge all have horrendous typing.

 

[Sebberball]

About my Bae Torterra, there are many pokemon that counter emboar and durant, like emboar, for emboar, durant, for durant. and other pokemon. and about hail, it could be a new weather meta, other than the counters of emboar for aurous, and for abomasnow, it is still countered by fire pig. and there are not alot of pokemon that benefit from hail, besides ice type pokemon there are few hail pokemon that are usable, besides pokemon with ice body and primary ice STABs, like glalie, so it could be useful but i think obamasnow will be the best for hail. unless glaceon gets used (i mean, is that going to happen?)

 

[Ramplestilskin]

2015-01 stats : hyperoffense.................. 6.03109%
2015-02 stats : hyperoffense..................12.40691%

How can be explained this rise in hyper offense ? Did the bans of Dragalge and MPidgeot helped HO overall, and how is usually built an HO in RU in your opinion ? And will the ban of Pangoro / Moltres benefit this playstyle ?

I personnaly think Cobalion is the usual lead for an HO because of its ability to set up rocks, taunt and volt switch while still keeping offensive pressure, and may be Meloetta is also a great Pokemon with its good bulk and ability to run a large array of sets like AV, Specs, Scarf or subCM LO. What would be hte pokemon fiiting the most in an HO in your opinion ?

 

[WreckingBolt]

2015-01 stats : hyperoffense.................. 6.03109%
2015-02 stats : hyperoffense..................12.40691%

How can be explained this rise in hyper offense ? Did the bans of Dragalge and MPidgeot helped HO overall, and how is usually built an HO in RU in your opinion ? And will the ban of Pangoro / Moltres benefit this playstyle ?

I personnaly think Cobalion is the usual lead for an HO because of its ability to set up rocks, taunt and volt switch while still keeping offensive pressure, and may be Meloetta is also a great Pokemon with its good bulk and ability to run a large array of sets like AV, Specs, Scarf or subCM LO. What would be hte pokemon fiiting the most in an HO in your opinion ?

A good amount of RU is sticking to Stall man. You will see plenty of hazard stacking as well, which makes it rather difficult to run a successful HO team.

 

[aVocado]

2015-01 stats : hyperoffense.................. 6.03109%
2015-02 stats : hyperoffense..................12.40691%

How can be explained this rise in hyper offense ? Did the bans of Dragalge and MPidgeot helped HO overall, and how is usually built an HO in RU in your opinion ? And will the ban of Pangoro / Moltres benefit this playstyle ?

I personnaly think Cobalion is the usual lead for an HO because of its ability to set up rocks, taunt and volt switch while still keeping offensive pressure, and may be Meloetta is also a great Pokemon with its good bulk and ability to run a large array of sets like AV, Specs, Scarf or subCM LO. What would be hte pokemon fiiting the most in an HO in your opinion ?

Probably a mixture of Crustle getting Custap berry, Gligar leaving, Scarf Moltres leaving, and Sceptile going to UU. All of this means HO is a lot less threatened, and hazard stacking HO is a lot better than before.

 

[Cowtao]

I'm thinking of using Archeops soon.

With how common Cobalion, Qwilfish, and other fast mons have become popular, I thought of something that could outspee and nail them with an OHKO. A small set I have been working on was...

Archeops @ Expert Belt (Pending Item)
Naive Nature
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
-U-turn / Head Smash
-Earth Power
-Focus Blast
-Random Air Stab

I am having a hard time finding a decent anti-lead set that doesn't become walled. The 110 Base Speed is really nice because this outspeeds Durant, Heliolisk, Virizion, and Cobalion. I am dying to figure out a good way to use this burd effectively and I'd appreciate some feedback.

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Archeops @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Endeavor
- Knock Off

Of every Archeops set I've tried, this has been my favorite thus far. It outspeeds some common hazard setters such as Cobalion and Qwilfish and Taunts them or sets up Stealth Rock. After being knocked down to Focus Sash, it can Endeavor something and make it almost useless for the rest of the match. Knock Off is Knock Off. It really hates Scald and Rock Blast. If you want an anti-lead Archeops, this is probably the way to go. Head Smash could probably be run on this set too to nuke something before going down.

I haven't used the Archeops set you posted, but it looks like a cool lure since it OHKOs Qwilfish and Cobalion while 2HKOing Rhyperior and Mega Steelix, among other things.

 

[Ares]

I'm thinking of using Archeops soon.

With how common Cobalion, Qwilfish, and other fast mons have become popular, I thought of something that could outspee and nail them with an OHKO. A small set I have been working on was...

Archeops @ Expert Belt (Pending Item)
Naive Nature
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
-U-turn / Head Smash
-Earth Power
-Focus Blast
-Random Air Stab

I am having a hard time finding a decent anti-lead set that doesn't become walled. The 110 Base Speed is really nice because this outspeeds Durant, Heliolisk, Virizion, and Cobalion. I am dying to figure out a good way to use this burd effectively and I'd appreciate some feedback.

You should probably run physical Archeops, or mixed mostly based in physical. If you do that your best bet is running no item so you get a base 110 acrobatics STAB / roost is also pretty much a requirement on most Archeops sets / stone edge / filler move or earth power

 

[atomicllamas]

I'm thinking of using Archeops soon.

With how common Cobalion, Qwilfish, and other fast mons have become popular, I thought of something that could outspee and nail them with an OHKO. A small set I have been working on was...

Archeops @ Expert Belt (Pending Item)
Naive Nature
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
-U-turn / Head Smash
-Earth Power
-Focus Blast
-Random Air Stab

I am having a hard time finding a decent anti-lead set that doesn't become walled. The 110 Base Speed is really nice because this outspeeds Durant, Heliolisk, Virizion, and Cobalion. I am dying to figure out a good way to use this burd effectively and I'd appreciate some feedback.

If you really want to use Archeops on HO as an anti-lead, its best bet is to run the set that HypnoEmpire posted, but I actually prefer to use a Rock-type STAB over Knock Off. You can use Head Smash when you are at 1 HP to prevent Defog, Rock Tomb is also kind of cool, as lowering the opponents speed in conjunction with endeavor can really work to fuck over your opponent, Rock Slide has a nice chance to flinch, punishes Golbat that try to come in and defog, and is just an accurate STAB. I've been running a bit of HO recently, and I've found that what you should actually do is have a couple different lead options that can cover a wide variety of leads effectively. Taunt / SR / Endeavor / Rock STAB Archeops does well against most leads, but it struggles with Rhyperior, as a wrong prediction (ie using SR as they use SR, or Taunting as they Rock Blast) loses the hazards war. One Pokemon that I've found really effective paired with lead Archeops and is generally very effective on HO is the following Meloetta set:

Meloetta @ Colbur Berry / Expert Belt / Mind Plate / Assault Vest / Life Orb / Doesn't matter
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Grass Knot
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam

This set is pretty cool right now (shout out to Spirit for giving me the idea to use GK on Meloetta), as it does so much for HO in RU right now. Firstly it is capable of cock blocking Rhyperior (252 SpA Meloetta Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 441-522 (101.8 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO), destroys Qwilfish as well (but so does Taunt Archeops so w/e). On top of this, it prevents every RU defogger from doing its job barring Skuntank (am I missing any relevant RU defoggers besides Skunk / Golbat / Shiftry ?_?), although Ebelt is necessary to guarantee the KO on Shiftry after SR (56.3% chance to OHKO after SR with no boosting item, keep in mind you need Colbur Berry to survive Sucker Punch). I think running Choice items barring a Choice Scarf users with U-turn are pretty awful on HO, as they just kill momentum, but I don't really like sacrificing Meloetta's natural bulk with life orb, as even on HO it can come in handy to have Meloetta switch into stuff. Another great thing about Meloetta is that I find it impossible to get good Ghost-resists on to offensive teams, and Meloetta is not only immune to Ghost, but it also donks Doublade with Shadow Ball.

As a side note, if you are going to run an all out attacking Archeops set, Heat Wave is 100% better than Earth Power, not only does it hit Cobalion for about the same amount, it destroys Durant (too valuable to pass up given Archeops's speed tier), and it also heavily damages Escavalier.

 

[Ares]

As a side note, if you are going to run an all out attacking Archeops set, Heat Wave is 100% better than Earth Power, not only does it hit Cobalion for about the same amount, it destroys Durant (too valuable to pass up given Archeops's speed tier), and it also heavily damages Escavalier.

I mentioned Earth Power specifically because Cowtao wanted to beat Qwilfish. Heat wave is much better as a filler move to hit more Steel-types, you can also run Taunt to stop Stall or U-turn for momentum or another physical coverage move such as Aqua Tail for Rhyperior. The last slot is pretty customizable on offensive Archeops.

On a side noted Acrobatics 2HKOs Escavalier while Earth Power 2HKOs Durant, so you can work around not OHKOing them.

 

[phantom]

Man, if only pearl won that stupid match my innovation would be complete... sigh

As for GK Melo, Grass moves Meloetta is pretty nice in general, but I only suggest using GK when Meloetta doesn't have any boosting items because unlike Energy Ball, it guarantees the KO on Rhyperior if Meloetta is using an AV for instance. Energy Ball is better when used with an Ebelt or something because it does more damage to SpD Alomomola (2HKO vs 3HKO) and OHKOs Clawitzer after SR.

252 SpA Expert Belt Meloetta Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 178-211 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- 86.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Expert Belt Meloetta Energy Ball vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 266-314 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Expert Belt Meloetta Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Clawitzer: 173-204 (61.1 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Expert Belt Meloetta Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Clawitzer: 257-302 (90.8 - 106.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

I think Focus Blast or HP Fire would do more work than Dazzling Gleam in the last slot though. Aside from Spiritomb, you don't miss out on any targets, and instead Meloetta can do a fuckload of damage to Mega Lix for instance as opposed to being checked pretty easily, which I think is important b/c Mega Steelix is the best mon in RU rn imo. KOing doomer on the switch w/no prior damage is pretty cool too.

In general, All-Out Attacker non-choiced Meloetta is really nice and can do a variety of things from being a catchall special attackers check (AV) or a great lure (Ebelt).

Also, RU is boring af rn cause nothing is broken. ;_;

 

[Molk]

Alright, time to post a new NP thread, locking!

The new thread should be up very soon