Metagame NP: RU Stage 7: Of Moons, Birds, and Monsters (BOTH SUSPECTS BANNED, DISCUSSING NEW META)

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Wow, I really didn't see that one coming. I knew Gatr was probably going to get banned but I wasn't expecting a quickban, with 100% vote in favor of no less. Happy for it though, it was obviously too much for the tier to handle and all my battles revolved around setting my feraligatr up before my oppenent did.
 
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inb4 Tyrantrum is next.

I would like this to be suspected but, I wouldn't imagine this thing gone with how popular Cress, Cobalion, and Mega-Steelix are in this meta.
 
This isn't the thread to complain about the efficiency or lack of thereof in regards to past tiering decisions, especially when these tiering decisions no longer hold any weight. Voicing your concerns about tiering decisions that can be amended (such as the one just made) is fine, but complaining about something that is no longer in control of the council or tier leaders serves no purpose whatsoever.

Bottom line: don't derail the thread with this nonsense.
 
Froggyboy said:
Serperior was arguably more broken than Gatr, yet Serp was suspected and Gatr was quickbanned. That's what I'm getting at.
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That's just like, your opinion man. In my opinion Feraligatr was far more broken than serperior (in my opinion mega pidgeot was also more broken, but whatever). At least Serperior had viable counters (Golbat, Amoonguss, Registeel), unlike Gatr which has Poliwrath? Cause that's healthy for the meta game. It also has fewer offensive checks, as it has better defensive typing and a way to boost its speed, not to mention it has a strong STAB priority move for SD sets.
 
Froggyboy said:
Serperior was arguably more broken than Gatr, yet Serp was suspected and Gatr was quickbanned. That's what I'm getting at.
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The thing is, unboosted Serperior doesn't do anything, while Sheer force Gatr can OHKO some neutral pokes even without +1. Serperior actually needs setup to be the threat it is while Feraligatr is a wallbreaker that also has a boosting move to help
 
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Ok, I'm sorry. My first post was originally a joke, I wouldn't want to insult the council or anyone in them for the banning of a Pokemon. I'll stop this discussion now. And I'll do that by saying Scarf Pinsir has been working out interesting for me. Its role is to clean late game or to sweep unprepared teams, and while not anything to gasp at, it is still pretty strong, doesn't have Hustle which allows it to hit all of its moves(or at least viable ones), and get Moxie which mainly gives it its niche imo
 
And, also, Serperior was much easier to revenge than Gatr; the most reliable revenge killer for gatr is Scarf Rotom-C, who is good in it's own right, but Serp had Mega-Pidgeot, Scarftres, Fletch, etc. whereas very few things outspeed Gatr at +1, and very few things can take any of it's attacks and KO back.

EDIT: I posted this like right when Froggyboy addressed their post but I still this it's relevant.
 
I personally didn't feel like Gatr was OP mostly because of his lackluster speed and ok defenses. Either way though if the higher ups feel that this will balance the meta then so be it.
 
WreckingBolt said:
I personally didn't feel like Gatr was OP mostly because of his lackluster speed and ok defenses. Either way though if the higher ups feel that this will balance the meta then so be it.
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Its Speed was hardly ever an issue considering that it could easily boost up with Dragon Dance and the only relevant Choice Scarfer that could revenge kill it 100% of the time is Rotom-C. Its defenses were far from okay for an incredibly offensively inclined Pokemon like Gator; 85/100/83 is quite impressive from an offensive point of view. Its plain Water-typing allowed it to easily set up on a ton of shit, and its extra bulk made it hard to revenge kill with priority or non super effective hits. The DD set was hard as fuck for offense to handle, while SD sets man-handled bulkier builds that lacked Poliwrath (offensive teams also hated +2 Aqua Jets). On top of that, Sheer Force allowed it to hit very hard right off the bat, especially when equipped with a Life Orb, so it didn't even have to set up in order to be threatening. It also had a coverage move for basically any bulky Pokemon that would want to take it on bar Poliwrath. You also can't ignore the fact that it couldn't be played around by forcing it to take LO recoil, considering almost all of its moves were boosted by Sheer Force.

All in all, the RU council made a very good decision in banning Gator so early. It was incredibly difficult to stop once it set up, had like one reliable counter, and each of its sets were extremely pressuring to nearly every archetype out there. I know it's your opinion, but personally I don't see how anyone could ignore its sheer brokeness.
 
With Feraligatr out of the picture, I do believe Mega Steelix will dominate the RU metagame. It can do anything you need it to do, fits on a shitload of teams, has great power, sets up on almost anything with Curse, gets SR up on almost anything and makes sure its hazards can stay up. Iron snake can use Dragon Tail for phazing and racking up chip damage with SR, making it an excellent partner for just about any offensive Pokémon in the tier. With some of its major opposition banned, Mega Steelix is free to do whatever it desires and has an immense presence in the meta.
 
Kyuzeth said:
With Feraligatr out of the picture, I do believe Mega Steelix will dominate the RU metagame. It can do anything you need it to do, fits on a shitload of teams, has great power, sets up on almost anything with Curse, gets SR up on almost anything and makes sure its hazards can stay up. Iron snake can use Dragon Tail for phazing and racking up chip damage with SR, making it an excellent partner for just about any offensive Pokémon in the tier. With some of its major opposition banned, Mega Steelix is free to do whatever it desires and has an immense presence in the meta.
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I agree that Mega Steelix is a huge threat but it doesn't always warrant a "free turn." It can easily taken down by a strong special attacker such as Clawitzer.
 
WreckingBolt said:
I agree that Mega Steelix is a huge threat but it doesn't always warrant a "free turn." It can easily taken down by a strong special attacker such as Clawitzer.
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252+ SpA Life Orb Clawitzer Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 265-312 (74.8 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Mega Steelix Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Clawitzer: 145-172 (51.2 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Clawitzer can't reliably switch in, as it risks being 2HKOed. It can't OHKO in return and at +1, Mega Steelix has a chance to OHKO with Earthquake after SR damage. While Clawitzer can indeed do a lot, it's far from a safe switch-in into Mega Steelix. Its physical bulk is so massive that you can just go for all-out special bulk, giving this carbon serpent great defensive prowess on both sides. Of course, the Scald burn blows for Mega Steelix and can take it down, but only if it gets a really high damage roll.

In short, while Mega Steelix may not always create free turns, it can face just about anything the tier has to offer. Switching in on Mega Steelix means something is getting crippled; that's its real strength.
 
While I think it's too early to discuss things like suspects or things that need to be looked at, it's true that mega steelix is probably the most dominating force in the tier. Both the standard tank (eq/heavy slam/toxic or sr/dragon tail or roar) and the rest talk curse sets are equally viable imo, and he beats 1v1 pretty much everything that doesn't have a SE STAB. (Even powerful attackers like tyrantrum struggle to break him with boosted SE coverage, as +1 adamant eq doesnt 2hko lix from full if lix has a def boosting nature and some def evs.) He also can come in very easily, as he is immune to twave and toxic and only takes 3% from rocks, and has plenty of resists. Also, while lix can be beaten by strong special attacks like clawitzer, he does about 50% with eq or 30% with heavy slam on the switchin, or just roar it out and make it take more hazards damage. Even things like scarf rotom-c who resist both of his attacks, struggle to beat him 1v1 (leaf storm can't 2hko after the drop and fails to 3hko if lix has a lot of sp.def evs, and heavy slam 3hkos without att investment.)

Btw, what is the "standard" ev spread people are running on megalix, the pre-oras analysis recommends maxhp/max spdef, the recent uu recommends max hp and mixed defenses, but a lot of ones on the ladder run att evs or even speed to creep and beat opposing megalix
 
urbestfriend said:
Btw, what is the "standard" ev spread people are running on megalix, the pre-oras analysis recommends maxhp/max spdef, the recent uu recommends max hp and mixed defenses, but a lot of ones on the ladder run att evs or even speed to creep and beat opposing megalix
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Differs from tier to tier. Different meta, different threats. I believe the Curse set goes Max HP/Spdef and the Tank set goes Max HP/Max Attack. Of course, EVs can be tinkered with, but I believe those are the standards. Do not quote me on that if it is wrong, however.
 
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