ORAS Doubles OU "The Frog and the Lillypad" (Peaked #84 on Ladder)

[Bigfoots Son]

"The Frog and the Lillypad"
An ORAS Doubles Weather Team

Some of you may remember a number of weeks back I posted a doubles sun team that utilised Cherrim, Typhlosion and Mega Aerodactyl. It was decided that this team was competitively unviable, and after all the changes the team required, I decided it would be easier to go back to the drawing board. I looked at using rain instead, got over my allergy to using Legendary Pokemon, and this team was born. Designed to provide Mega Swampert with the best opportunities to sweep, whilst still being effective outside of rain. However, as testing progressed, it became clear that the true merit of the team is with the pairing of Politoed and Ludicolo,who are experts at what they do. See below some edits as the team has changed, but without further ado, here is the team!

EDIT #1:​

Following the advice of several people, I made a number of changes to EV spreads, natures, movesets and - sadly - removed Breloom from the team. What remains is much stronger now, however.

EDIT #2:​

Following a few more tweaks and changes, suggested by you guys, my wonderful critics and advisers, the team has gone from strength to strength. In a test run of twenty games in Showdown Doubles OU, the team has an 80% win rate, with 16 wins and 4 losses (the latter of which is to do with poor prediction on my part really. Here is the final amendments for now! (And I intend to keep HP Ice Thundurus-T because it has been so useful, and because I plan to run this team on cartridge too, and my Thunderus-T there is HP Ice)

- THE TEAM -​

The Rain Summoner

Politoed (M) @ Damp Rock

Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Encore
- Protect​

Truly the MVP of the team, Politoed has so many important roles on the team, it's hard to not find a use for it in every battle! Of course, Politoed's primary purpose is to keep up Rain for as long as possible in order to allow its more physically-inclined teammates to sweep effectively, but it is able to thrive in this role with a physically bulky spread and great support moves in Encore and Icy Wind. The first punishes setup sweepers, whilst the second supports allies either with a reduction in the enemy's speed. Scald is just super useful for improving Politoed's ability to take physical hits if the Burn goes off, and the residual damage - combined with rain-boosted STAB is still nothing to laugh at when the life-ebbing effects of Burn are added to that mix. Following advice, I replaced Helping Hand - which hadn't proved super useful - with Protect to improve survivability and scouting.

The Physical Swift Swimmer

Swampert (Mega) (M) @ Swampertite

Ability: Torrent / Swift Swim
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch​

My mega of choice and a very potent physical sweeper, Swampert usually comes in late-game to clean up the playing field. With high base attack and decent coverage, there isn't much that Swampert can't come in on and hit hard with one of its STAB moves: Earthquake is always a powerful option to bring to the table, but STAB Waterfall in rain is nothing to sneer at, and the flinch chance is always welcome! The EV spread helps Swampert hit hard, take a hit in return and outspeed some common threats, and Protect allows for a free mega evolution.

The Special Swift Swimmer

Ludicolo (M) @ Assault Vest

Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam​

Replacing Breloom is Ludicolo, who has already proved invaluable. When paired with Politoed (with which it leads in most of my games), Ludicolo has got the ability to punch huge dents in opposing teams, and the Assault Vest it carries helps it tank hits in return much better. This is a fairly standard set for a rain team; Swift Swim and just enough EV's in speed to outspeed common threats, whilst packing a huge punch with Modest Max - SpA. Fake Out is obviously extremely useful, and under rain Ludicolo packs one of the more speedy Fake Outs in the game. The remaining moves provide coverage in the form of ICe Beam to take down flying types that aren't Talonflame, whilst Giga Drain provides recovery and Hydro Pump; power. As a side note, this is fast becoming my most dependable team member, making up 50% of the Frog and the Lillypad combo.

The Revenge Killer

Thundurus-T (M) @ Choice Specs

Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Volt Switch
​

Thundurus-T is powerful. Under rain, Thunder gets perfect accuracy and a high-base power move such as this, coming from a Specs STAB base 145 SpA max-SpA Pokemon spells doom for any pokemon that don't resist it or aren't flat-out immune. Focus Blast lets Thundurus-T wreck the Steel and Rock Types that resist its other moves, whilst Hidden Power Ice nails Dragons and straight-up OHKO's offensive Landorus-T every time. Volt Switch provides much-needed momentum, though even with a timid nature and maximum investment in speed, Thundurus-T is not as quick without the Scarf, but the damage output is too noticeable to ever pass up again! As noted above, HP Ice is preferred as I plan on using this team in the Cartridge game, as well. It has excellent utility, and beats a number of threats.

The Grass and Trick Room Check

Talonflame (M) @ Life Orb

Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Protect
- Brave Bird
- Overheat
- Taunt
​

Talonflame uses a Naughty nature and Overheat to surprise physically bulky steel types, especially Ferrothorn, with an OHKO (even under rain if 4X Super Effective) whilst taking no damage in return other than Life Orb recoil. Taunt has replaced Tailwind to help beat Trick Room teams and Calm Mind Creselia, who is a pain in this team's arse otherwise, whilst Brave Bird is powerful priority STAB and Protect allows for scouting and surviving predicted hits. Talonflame is a very useful member of the team, and has helped swing games left right and centre.

The Substitute Sweeper

Aegislash (M) @ Leftovers

Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA Def / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- King's Shield
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
​

Aegislash is still a hero; often the last man standing, behind its Substitute. On the advice of a few people, I changed the spread to Modest 252 HP/252 SpA, since a combination of Leftovers + Substitute + King's Shield makes Aegislash very durable. Substitute is the most potent move on this set, as even though Shadow Ball and Flash Cannon hit like a Tungsten shell, Substitute allows Aegislash to beat out opponents it should normally struggle with, like Landorus-T and opposing Aegislash, in relative safety. If you can predict a switch and get up that Substitute, it's "Goodnight, Vienna" for a lot of opponents!

- CONCLUSION -​

So the latest iteration of the team is proving its worth already, and once my abilities to predict improve a little more (not that they are terrible now, mind) I know it will just get better and better. Ludicolo and Politoed make an excellent lead pairing, and have swept teams on their own quite comfortably, whilst Talonflame helps keep Cresselia (and Trick Room) in check. Aegislash is unsurprisingly effective in its role, whilst Thunderus-T makes for a great Revenge Killer and Volt-Switcher. The weakest link would be Swampert, who often finds it difficult to get in and mega evolve without losing momentum via Protect, but it has won games in its own right too, so I'm unsure about replacing it. However, the team now ha a new name thanks to the surprise MVP's - the Frog and the Lillypad!

 

[MZ]

The whole point of rain is to have a swift swim powerhouse that hits hard and outspeeds everything else, which you can't do without speed on your mega swampert. I don't play enough doubles to rate, but I'd probably put enough for jolly scarf Landorus-T in rain as there isn't much faster than that. I'd also consider getting another rain sweeper like Ludicolo as you don't seem to abuse the rain much and make Aegislash more offensive, but like I said I can't really do a full rate.

 

[Yellow Paint]

Well, it looks like you took your mons off of the viability rankings or the frameworks thread, but your sets, spreads and team composition need a bit of work.

Politoed is fine, although you'd prefer icy wind or ice beam over protect.

Swampert's evs should be 116 HP, 252+Atk, 140 Spe.

Breloom really isn't the best choice for a rain team, due to an increased talonflame weakness and not beating more things the rest of rain beats. If you really want to use it, use protect>rock tomb. Here are some options for substitutions:

In rain, ludicolo competes much better for breloom's grass typing and slot because of fake out utility, better typing, and swift swim.
Ludicolo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam

Bisharp, another choice, provides stronger priority in sucker punch, more type coverage, and better damage overall.
Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Latios can be rain's dragon killer/dragon, and it checks amoonguss quite nicely. If you do decide to use it, replace tailwind for taunt on talonflame.
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Tailwind
- Protect

Rain honestly prefers specs thundy t more than scarf, as it has a bunch of other ways to beat diancie, keldeo, and lando t, which scarf beats. Having Thunder+Volt Switch helps win weather wars with sun.
Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast

Talonflame is fine, although overheat>flare blitz is an option if you want to hit ferro and aegi more reliably, with less recoil. If you do decide to use it, make it either naughty or lonely.

That aegislash is just plain bad: toxic and gyro ball do absolutely nothing, and you really shouldn't take suggestions on ev spreads from the teambuilder. Aegi is a good mon for rain, just not THAT set. You can really use either sub aegi, to be even more winconny under rain and beat ferro, or goggles to really beat amoonguss.

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 236 HP / 236 SpA / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Aegislash @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Sorry if I'm asking for a lot of changes in this rate, but most of these are objectively better, and it's all up to you, anyway.

 

[Bigfoots Son]

Well, it looks like you took your mons off of the viability rankings or the frameworks thread, but your sets, spreads and team composition need a bit of work.

Politoed is fine, although you'd prefer icy wind or ice beam over protect.

Swampert's evs should be 116 HP, 252+Atk, 140 Spe.

Breloom really isn't the best choice for a rain team, due to an increased talonflame weakness and not beating more things the rest of rain beats. If you really want to use it, use protect>rock tomb. Here are some options for substitutions:

In rain, ludicolo competes much better for breloom's grass typing and slot because of fake out utility, better typing, and swift swim.
Ludicolo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam

Bisharp, another choice, provides stronger priority in sucker punch, more type coverage, and better damage overall.
Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Latios can be rain's dragon killer/dragon, and it checks amoonguss quite nicely. If you do decide to use it, replace tailwind for taunt on talonflame.
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Tailwind
- Protect

Rain honestly prefers specs thundy t more than scarf, as it has a bunch of other ways to beat diancie, keldeo, and lando t, which scarf beats. Having Thunder+Volt Switch helps win weather wars with sun.
Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast

Talonflame is fine, although overheat>flare blitz is an option if you want to hit ferro and aegi more reliably, with less recoil. If you do decide to use it, make it either naughty or lonely.

That aegislash is just plain bad: toxic and gyro ball do absolutely nothing, and you really shouldn't take suggestions on ev spreads from the teambuilder. Aegi is a good mon for rain, just not THAT set. You can really use either sub aegi, to be even more winconny under rain and beat ferro, or goggles to really beat amoonguss.

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 236 HP / 236 SpA / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Aegislash @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Sorry if I'm asking for a lot of changes in this rate, but most of these are objectively better, and it's all up to you, anyway.

No problem at all, the more advise the better! I think the idea of using Ludicolo is very interesting, and I'll certainly give it a go! I'll have a look at the two Aegislash sets and see which fits my team better!

 

[shaian]

Thundurus: You typically want to have a pivoting option on your scarfer, so I'd recommend using Volt Switch over Psychic on Thundurus, not to mention non-boosted non-stab Psychic is painfully weak. The importance of that pivoting option, particularly on rain, is because Politoed itself just kills momentum, and having to hard switch it in each time you want to get up your weather sucks. With Volt Switch you can bring it in without hurting your momentum each time, and almost always with an advantageous matchup.

You could also get away with a Modest nature on it as well, as there aren't many Pokemon running more speed + a scarf in the metagame, bar the occasional Hasty Genesect (why they do that is beyond me). Also as the dude above me explained, you could also get away with Choice Specs Thundurus (which typically opts of Hidden Power Flying over Ice) on a rain team, though the 101 Spe is not what it used to be, and if you're worried by Keldeo and Diancie I'd just stick to Scarf.

Swampert: Swampert is not a particularly effective rain option in the current metagame, as it does not offer much in the way of useful coverage, or useful resistances. You could opt for Mega Diancie instead, which gives you more speed outside of Rain, deals with Charizard, the Muskedeers, opposing Thundurus (you just OHKO them before they can do anything), and so on much better.

Another option for a Mega is Mega Metagross, who provides much of the same services that Diancie does, whilst dealing better with perennial rain annoyance Amoonguss, though it is susceptible to Thundurus T-Waves and gets smoked by Charizard. Either option is a step up from Swampert though.

Breloom: Breloom is quite honestly not a very good pick in general in the current metagame, and you'll be better off using Ludicolo as a primary grass-type and main swift swimmer. Though if you do want to use it, it's not god awful, I'd recommend switching to an Adamant nature since 263 capped is not really that good so the extra power is probably more worth it. Also Protect over Rock Tomb because Breloom can not afford to take any hit it doesn't need to, especially since it relies on its Sash.

Now if you do want to try out Ludicolo, the standard Assault Vest set that Yellow Paint pointed out is a good start. The best part about Ludicolo is how well it pairs up with traditional rain Megas, being able to beat Rotom-W for Diancies, Swamperts, Metagrosses, as well as being able to outrun and OHKO Landorus-T, all while ignoring Amoonguss.

Aegislash: That's an ubers stall set dude, Doubles is a much more offensively incline metagame. That being said, I too have been intrigued by the idea of a specially defensive Aegislash (in a large part due to the large amount of online cart play I do), so here's a set I made for Smogon Doubles Aegislash based on the one I used in cart play.

chrom (Aegislash) (M) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 20 SpA / 240 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- King's Shield
- Shadow Sneak

Specially defensive WP Aegislash is way more of a VGC thing than it is a Smogon Doubles thing, but this set works great. The HP + SpD (you only need 240 HP + 240 SpD but the remaining 8 weren' doing shit) always takes a Modest Charizard Y Heatwave in the Sun, a Mega Camerupt Earth Power, and has a 20% chance to take 2 Modest Heatran Heatwaves (non-sun). The reason I opted for Shadow Sneak instead of Wide Guard (which incidentally would not help your team much) is because this set can lure out Heatrans, Zards, and Camels and always 2HKO's them with a combination of Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak at +2. The Special Attack investment always OHKO's 44 HP Landorus-T at +2. This thing works great!

Though if you do want to try out a more conventional Aegislash, use Substitute over Wide Guard, your teams not really too weak to spread moves bar Thundurus being weak to Diamond Storm / Rock Slide, but you can just pivot out (see: Volt Switch).

 

[Bigfoots Son]

Thundurus: You typically want to have a pivoting option on your scarfer, so I'd recommend using Volt Switch over Psychic on Thundurus, not to mention non-boosted non-stab Psychic is painfully weak. The importance of that pivoting option, particularly on rain, is because Politoed itself just kills momentum, and having to hard switch it in each time you want to get up your weather sucks. With Volt Switch you can bring it in without hurting your momentum each time, and almost always with an advantageous matchup.

You could also get away with a Modest nature on it as well, as there aren't many Pokemon running more speed + a scarf in the metagame, bar the occasional Hasty Genesect (why they do that is beyond me). Also as the dude above me explained, you could also get away with Choice Specs Thundurus (which typically opts of Hidden Power Flying over Ice) on a rain team, though the 101 Spe is not what it used to be, and if you're worried by Keldeo and Diancie I'd just stick to Scarf.

Swampert: Swampert is not a particularly effective rain option in the current metagame, as it does not offer much in the way of useful coverage, or useful resistances. You could opt for Mega Diancie instead, which gives you more speed outside of Rain, deals with Charizard, the Muskedeers, opposing Thundurus (you just OHKO them before they can do anything), and so on much better.

Another option for a Mega is Mega Metagross, who provides much of the same services that Diancie does, whilst dealing better with perennial rain annoyance Amoonguss, though it is susceptible to Thundurus T-Waves and gets smoked by Charizard. Either option is a step up from Swampert though.

Breloom: Breloom is quite honestly not a very good pick in general in the current metagame, and you'll be better off using Ludicolo as a primary grass-type and main swift swimmer. Though if you do want to use it, it's not god awful, I'd recommend switching to an Adamant nature since 263 capped is not really that good so the extra power is probably more worth it. Also Protect over Rock Tomb because Breloom can not afford to take any hit it doesn't need to, especially since it relies on its Sash.

Now if you do want to try out Ludicolo, the standard Assault Vest set that Yellow Paint pointed out is a good start. The best part about Ludicolo is how well it pairs up with traditional rain Megas, being able to beat Rotom-W for Diancies, Swamperts, Metagrosses, as well as being able to outrun and OHKO Landorus-T, all while ignoring Amoonguss.

Aegislash: That's an ubers stall set dude, Doubles is a much more offensively incline metagame. That being said, I too have been intrigued by the idea of a specially defensive Aegislash (in a large part due to the large amount of online cart play I do), so here's a set I made for Smogon Doubles Aegislash based on the one I used in cart play.

chrom (Aegislash) (M) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 20 SpA / 240 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- King's Shield
- Shadow Sneak

Specially defensive WP Aegislash is way more of a VGC thing than it is a Smogon Doubles thing, but this set works great. The HP + SpD (you only need 240 HP + 240 SpD but the remaining 8 weren' doing shit) always takes a Modest Charizard Y Heatwave in the Sun, a Mega Camerupt Earth Power, and has a 20% chance to take 2 Modest Heatran Heatwaves (non-sun). The reason I opted for Shadow Sneak instead of Wide Guard (which incidentally would not help your team much) is because this set can lure out Heatrans, Zards, and Camels and always 2HKO's them with a combination of Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak at +2. The Special Attack investment always OHKO's 44 HP Landorus-T at +2. This thing works great!

Though if you do want to try out a more conventional Aegislash, use Substitute over Wide Guard, your teams not really too weak to spread moves bar Thundurus being weak to Diamond Storm / Rock Slide, but you can just pivot out (see: Volt Switch).

Thanks for the very helpful reply! I won't switch out Swampert as its really the pokemon I built the team around, but I believe it's very clear that Breloom should give way to Ludicolo!

I love the build of your cart Aegi, so I may try running that instead of the current one I have - you won't be surprised to know it is the worst performer in the team!

I'll have a play around with EV's and movesets of the team and get back to you with the results!

 

[Bigfoots Son]

Sorry to bump, but I've updated the OP with my changes - does anyone mind re-rating? My results have improved dramatically since I made these changes!

 

[shaian]

Politoed: Pick one of Encore, Icy Wind, or Helping Hand to swap out for Protect. Politoed is one of the main cogs to keeping this team working, so you can't afford to lose it to a double target, or something that can be avoided by protecting.

Thundurus: You could easily run Hidden Power Flying over Ice, which imo, would give you more utility since it gets the same main coverage (bulky grasses) as Ice but hits them harder, and you have an Ice move on 2 other mons, so it might be more effective on this build.

Aegislash: You really should run a more offensive set. If you really want it to also just be a roadblock, the sub+lefties build works wonderfully, albeit that set is a bit dated:

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- King's Shield
- Substitute

Basically, this lets you just sub up against stuff that can't touch you, such as Kangaskhan or a Lando-T locked into a non-EQ move, and proceed to just keep putting dents in the opposing team. It also blocks sleep spam, status spam, etc, and can be a menace to play against if your aegislash checks are gone. Also if you haven't already tried it, you could try the set I posted earlier and see if it works for you. I just feel like you're not really using Aegislash to its full potential, though if it works for you, kudos.

 

[Electrolyte]

This team looks really fun, so rate-o:

It's a pretty standard Double Swift Rain team, so I'll just be helping you with your classic Rain checks, namely:

Trick Room / Speed control- a team as fast as this can't afford to be bogged down by Speed control; Thundurus-I in particular is a huge threat because a paralyzed Ludicolo means you lose almost half of the team's special offensive power. Trick Room, too can be a big threat, especially with Amoonguss, which threatens a large portion of this team. Thus I suggest Taunt over Tailwind on Talonflame; this team doesn't need more Speed, as 2/3 pass the base 100 benchmark and the other 1/3 don't benefit much from Tailwind anyway. Taunt lets you check Amoonguss without having to hit it, thwart Trick Room setup, and catch CM Cresselia before it sets up.

I also second all of Shaian's suggestions; HP Flying on Thundurus-T will help especially against Amoonguss, while a more offensive Aegislash set can be used to check other Trick Room sweepers and Ferrothorn, in particular. And, Protect should really be used instead of Helping Hand, whose utility isn't so great nowadays, especially since you don't have a spread attacker besides EQ Swampert.


Good luck!

 

[Bigfoots Son]

This team looks really fun, so rate-o:

It's a pretty standard Double Swift Rain team, so I'll just be helping you with your classic Rain checks, namely:

Trick Room / Speed control- a team as fast as this can't afford to be bogged down by Speed control; Thundurus-I in particular is a huge threat because a paralyzed Ludicolo means you lose almost half of the team's special offensive power. Trick Room, too can be a big threat, especially with Amoonguss, which threatens a large portion of this team. Thus I suggest Taunt over Tailwind on Talonflame; this team doesn't need more Speed, as 2/3 pass the base 100 benchmark and the other 1/3 don't benefit much from Tailwind anyway. Taunt lets you check Amoonguss without having to hit it, thwart Trick Room setup, and catch CM Cresselia before it sets up.

I also second all of Shaian's suggestions; HP Flying on Thundurus-T will help especially against Amoonguss, while a more offensive Aegislash set can be used to check other Trick Room sweepers and Ferrothorn, in particular. And, Protect should really be used instead of Helping Hand, whose utility isn't so great nowadays, especially since you don't have a spread attacker besides EQ Swampert.


Good luck!

Thanks Electrolyte! I've put forward some of the changes you requested, and have won the last 16 out of 20 games! I've kept HP Ice on Thundurus-T as I want to be able to use this team on cartridge too, and the Thundurus-T I have there is limited to HP Ice, but I made all the changes to Aegislash and Talonflame that were suggested! Let me know what you think, as I think I've pretty much optimised the team now?

 

[shaian]

well, since you're sticking with Swampert, I recommend you change it's EV's, as 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe Adamant doesn't accomplish anything noteworthy. In place, I recommend switching to 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe Adamant which reduces your bulk a bit, but in return you now outrun max Speed Adamant Scarf Landorus-T, which is the most important benchmark to hit for a weather dependent sweeper, which your Swampert is operating as. If you want to go faster (I don't personally recommend this route), you can go 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe Adamant, which outruns max Speed Jolly Scarf Landorus-T, though that is relatively rare, and generally not worth planning for.

Good luck on the team dude :)

 

[Bigfoots Son]

well, since you're sticking with Swampert, I recommend you change it's EV's, as 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe Adamant doesn't accomplish anything noteworthy. In place, I recommend switching to 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe Adamant which reduces your bulk a bit, but in return you now outrun max Speed Adamant Scarf Landorus-T, which is the most important benchmark to hit for a weather dependent sweeper, which your Swampert is operating as. If you want to go faster (I don't personally recommend this route), you can go 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe Adamant, which outruns max Speed Jolly Scarf Landorus-T, though that is relatively rare, and generally not worth planning for.

Good luck on the team dude :)

Cheers Shaian, I'll update my EV's and see how everything goes! :)

 

[finally]

your swampert is 252 atk instead of 252 spatk
otherwise good team and dont listen to kyle hes a H8R