NOC Fallout New Vegas NOC [GAME OVER - Wastelanders Win]

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rssp1 From what someone said from before and my own thoughts, it would seem like there would be a standard set up of 11 village, 3 mafia and the courier. Again, it's just a guess. But I think it will follow the format.

Not trying to pick fights with you either Jalmont. But going off two players opinions and my own concerns, it raises some questions. Kind of want to hear Von's argument for why he wants to save you despite having a "bad review" of you and trying to keep you in the game. And some other people I know play a lot just to see what they think. But in this first round of no info and not having a traditional leadership contingent, I don't see what information I will get from anyone that I feel sure about being anti-village. But I am very open minded in being persuaded to change my mind.
 

vonFiedler

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rssp1Not trying to pick fights with you either Jalmont. But going off two players opinions and my own concerns, it raises some questions. Kind of want to hear Von's argument for why he wants to save you despite having a "bad review" of you and trying to keep you in the game. And some other people I know play a lot just to see what they think. But in this first round of no info and not having a traditional leadership contingent, I don't see what information I will get from anyone that I feel sure about being anti-village. But I am very open minded in being persuaded to change my mind.
Because no matter how much Jalmont thinks that almost every player here is bad, and no matter how much he thinks our arguments are somehow personal (I guess because they don't work out in his favor usually), I do not have half a personal feeling about Jalmont say the way I would about Celever. Jalmont is the only one here calling people assholes and douches. I'm just stating facts. He's been kicked out of games before for the behavior he's exhibiting right now. It's absolutely relevant to bring up because he continues to act this way and because multiple players wanted him lynched for it.

No matter how hostile you think a player like that is, if they aren't mafia, you don't lynch them. This should not be hard to explain. We lynch mafia, not other villagers.
 
With myself being good, and with 4 people having posted with regards to their suspicions about me, it INCREASES the probability that I am clean. If we assume the breakdown for the game is 3/11/1, then that leaves 3 mafia, 10 villagers, and the courier unaccounted for, and the more votes/suspicious comments we add, the more likely it is that a mafia member is targeting me. There WILL NEVER be a clean sweep, but the higher the number of voters against a user, the more likely it is they are clean on D1, as the ONLY guaranteed information available is the mafia members TO the other mafia members.
This was it from moi on post #79 that I wrote down in my notebook to get me those figures. I kind of agree that with 15 players and the courier, a 3 man mafia would be the most probable. Everything else would give kind of an imbalance. A two man mafia would be kind of rough and a four man vs 10 villagers in NOC would give them kind of easy odds.

Obviously this could not be the case. But it seems like the best bet.
 
Because no matter how much Jalmont thinks that almost every player here is bad, and no matter how much he thinks our arguments are somehow personal (I guess because they don't work out in his favor usually), I do not have half a personal feeling about Jalmont say the way I would about Celever. Jalmont is the only one here calling people assholes and douches. I'm just stating facts. He's been kicked out of games before for the behavior he's exhibiting right now. It's absolutely relevant to bring up because he continues to act this way and because multiple players wanted him lynched for it.

No matter how hostile you think a player like that is, if they aren't mafia, you don't lynch them. This should not be hard to explain. We lynch mafia, not other villagers.
Yeah, but no one knows what he is. It's not like he is cleaned and just runs the risk of doing his own thing. We have no idea what his roll is and what his motivations are. If he's with us, against us, or on his own. It's not like I'm saying go after a proven town. I'm saying right now with no info or solid leads, we are all pretty much on equal footing. If that footing doesn't change and no one has good suspicions on him, I feel it makes sense to take out the weakest/wild card-iest player. Better than just a random guess from 14 players...

Definitely don't want to be misunderstood for lynch Jalmont for no reason no matter what else happens. I'm just saying if the worst were to happen and we did mislynch, he would be the the one to do us the least amount of damage. Unless we're going after someone who doesn't do anything like Ullar, but that's pretty much the same debate we're going to have sans the suspicious previous behavior and bad track record. And if Ullar continues to not do anything he might be subbed and problem solved.
 
I'm trying to keep you from getting mislynched. And this is the reaction.
If that's the sort of help you're trying to give me please don't bother.

Because no matter how much Jalmont thinks that almost every player here is bad, and no matter how much he thinks our arguments are somehow personal (I guess because they don't work out in his favor usually), I do not have half a personal feeling about Jalmont say the way I would about Celever. Jalmont is the only one here calling people assholes and douches. I'm just stating facts. He's been kicked out of games before for the behavior he's exhibiting right now. It's absolutely relevant to bring up because he continues to act this way and because multiple players wanted him lynched for it.

No matter how hostile you think a player like that is, if they aren't mafia, you don't lynch them. This should not be hard to explain. We lynch mafia, not other villagers.
Thank you for putting words in my mouth. My list of "really good" players is really just daletterel so you don't need to be offended by it. It's a list reserved for people who are really fucking good at NOC which I think is pretty darn hard to be super good at. It doesn't mean everyone else is bad, since shockingly enough, mafia players are not grouped within "bad" and "good" as you may believe.

You aren't just "stating facts," you are stating them in a way that is frankly bullying me because you have a poor opinion of me. Grow the fuck up dude. It absolutely is personal when you need to bring up "hurr durr i kicked him out of my games because he's retarded har har har" when there's no need to. "Hey that guy has a propensity to do things that are random and that I think are bad." That's fine. I'm cool with that, and I probably wouldn't disagree with that. But it's not relevant whether or not you let me in your games. That's just singling me out because you want to let everyone know that I'm a special case because I'm so stupid or whatever. I'm calling you an asshole because you are acting like one when you don't need to be.

"He's been kicked out of games before for the behavior he's exhibiting right now." That is unequivocally 100% a falsehood. I have been kicked out of exactly 0 games. Come on man. You don't need to twist words to defend the fact that you are being a dick. I'm asking you to set it aside for the game and move on. you don't need to be passive aggressive and continue acting like that. being kicked out is a lot different

You are just lying about me and that's not ok. That's being an asshole when you don't need to be one.

Please. I'm literally just asking you not to be a jerk. You can still bring up all the cases of me being dumb. You can still tell me whatever x I did was dumb. You don't need to make it personal. I don't want to make things personal. I just would like to play this game.
 

vonFiedler

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I did not ever say you were retarded. Don't accuse me of twisting words and putting them into other peoples mouths when you are insulting me about a hundred times more than I have ever insulted you.

You make it personal

That was always you

If you're okay with me just bringing cases up, then we should have no issues.
 
irrelevant stuff for von
[21:31] <vonFiedler> jalmont, you were worse than anyone else on the village

[21:32] <vonFiedler> you're habitually destructive
[21:32] <vonFiedler> and a massive idiot

[21:33] <vonFiedler> cause this is a habit of yours
[21:33] <vonFiedler> as is this behavior right here

[21:40] <vonFiedler> you should probably put some thought into why players ignore 99% of what you do

[21:42] <vonFiedler> and then there's repeating "your lost" "your lost" "your lost" like some toddler

1[21:42] <jalmont> like just because i played mafia differently from you in that game
01[21:42] <jalmont> i'm retarded?
01[21:42] <jalmont> ok
[21:42] <vonFiedler> no, being a babt
[21:42] <vonFiedler> *baby

[21:49] <vonFiedler> if by people you mean you and celever
[21:49] <vonFiedler> then maybe I should get help before this gets out of hand


Yeah I guess you didn't say I was retarded, so at least I got that going for me which is nice! I am "insulting you" if only to communicate to you that I do not appreciate your passive aggressive behavior towards me since you don't seem to get that it's mean. I'm making it personal because you made it personal to me. Please stop. Thank you.
 
fuck i lost my relevant post

people i think are villagers
jalmont
butteredtoast
rssp1
Amianki

all these players i believe have shown critical thinking skills and have tried to make sense of what little information available using their own brains and nothing they have posted seems to have been forced.

people i think might be villagers
haunted diamond - good pressure on me but he's faltered lately? i'm guessing villager apathy more than mafia friends telling him to quiet
pokeguynxb - not enough posts for me to put him in the villager category but i'm feeling good on him
vonF - diatribe with moi was bad but moi subbing out makes the convo appear to be two villagers fighting over nothing in hindsight


IDK
ullar - i think he's apathetic villager but i don't like giving those sorts of players passes this early in the game
celever - very ??? i think the "active lurking" is an excuse but i'm just not sure at this point
Serious Bananas - where is he ???
Spiffy - i want spiffy to be village but i'm wary of him because he plays a very good mafia and i don't know at this point. he's very good at making passionate arguments against people that are hard to read either way. i want to see him discuss other people other than celever more.
LW - one post that was summary but i get the sense that;s more of a personal playstyle than a real "avoiding posting" sort of thing

people i think might be mafia
fatecrashers - keeps asking inquisitive questions, but i don't really get any real thoughts from him. there's just something about his play that bothers me, as it seems more passive than i would like
sunny - honestly inclined to believe he is apathetic villager but his play has been really weird and not really helpful to the village (i mean when you deliberately make a point of not contributing what can i say lol)

people i think are mafia
cancerous - his posts have read to me like someone not wanting to post but obviously having to post. i haven't gotten any real opinions from him. he's been here posting, but it's been minimal and in my eyes that's what i think the classic mafia does - they post often enough to be seen, but usually posts don't have too much reasoning behind them. that's my thought right now which hopefully i will be able to expand upon tomorrow when it's not so late.

ok g'night peace
 
I don't keep logs but maybe you shouldn't have cut out the part just before this where you were ranting about how bad all your fellow players are.
sorry i can't help it aaaaaa

Session Start: Fri Mar 06 21:30:04 2015
Session Ident: #sungame
03[21:30] * Now talking in #sungame
03[21:30] * Topic is 'Flavorful Mafia - Congratulations to Evil for Winning!'
03[21:30] * Set by sunny004 on Fri Mar 06 19:10:36
1[21:30] <jalmont> lol
[21:31] <vonFiedler> jalmont, you were worse than anyone else on the village
01[21:32] <jalmont> lol von please spare me
[21:32] <vonFiedler> no
01[21:32] <jalmont> well you are wrongt
[21:32] <vonFiedler> don't bother signing up for my game
01[21:32] <jalmont> you are delusional dude
[21:32] <vonFiedler> you're habitually destructive


1[22:01] <jalmont> i'm not an idiot but it's true
01[22:01] <jalmont> especially lately
01[22:01] <jalmont> i haven't put in as much time thinking about things as maybe i should
01[22:01] <jalmont> oh well :/



no rant on how anybody played - i admitted that it was a bad play and unnecessary? didn't say a word about anyone else :/

look i'm done talking about this - if you care that much von pm me and we can talk it out. otherwise let's just leave it alone and play. thanks and sorry for clogging the thread up with irrelevant shit
 

vonFiedler

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You were ranting, left, came back after I had read the chat. Nice try guy.

(I'm sorry if it seems like I'M clogging the thread up with him, but the meatiest thing I've said in this whole convo was a single paragraph in post #302. Just keeping him honest if he's gonna chop up logs and post them out of context)
 
Hi, it's morning my time and i'm at uni right now, that's why i was inactive for the last 12 hours (it's gonna be like this for the rest of the game, it's depressing to see you guys get the most active when i'm asleep...)
First of all, please please don't post huge walls of texts for something you can summarize in 2 lines. It doesn't make you look less scum, actually to me it looks more like "trying hard not to seem scum". I couldn't read everything but Among all this i found an interesting post...
Well, Celever/spiffy argument is turning into a battle of attrition. Much like the previous moi's grilling. I'd drop it,
The rest are flying right under my radar, or did i miss someone?
You missed me. Actually, almost everyone missed me and my point on why jalmont is suspicious. I made a logical post on the beginning of page 8 that only buttered toast bothered to read and reply to it. I don't know why the active players ignored my post (i can understand fate being jalmont's friend and spiffy being scummy), can someone convince me on why jalmont seems clean? What am I missing?
 

Fatecrashers

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me being jalmont's friend? uh what? i've clearly stated that the way jalmont has been playing this game bothers me and apparently the way i've played bothers him as well, if anything von has been jalmont's defender, though you may not get that from reading the last two pages (seriously logs from march what the heck)

butteredtoast's reply to you at post #179 sums my feeling pretty well, at the beginning when i saw jalmont advocate no lynch i was inclined to think that he was an overcautious villager with a power role, and that he wanted to get his n1 results before doing anything, his later revelation that it was just a lure and his refusal to talk any more about it is either an implicit admission that it was a stupid ploy for a villager to try, or a mafia trying to cover his tracks, and given what has transpired in the thread in the last two pages, i am leaning towards the former

that said, the chances of jalmont pulling a double bluff (he can't be mafia because the mafia would never do something this risky?) is very real, so i'm going to keep my vote on him for now
 
Current Standings:


*N/A stands for changing vote to "Un Vote" for a considerable amount of time.

Deadline Intimation! Day 1 ends at 8PM GMT+2 (CET Summer Time) in approximately 34 hours from now.
 
rssp's Cancerous vote is pretty good. Cancerous' later post also seems very focussed on just defending himself instead of really accomplishing anything, despite the fact that he's trying to draw attention to his contributions.

LightWolf's vote on Spiffy bugs me a lot but after reading over it again I'm still not sure why? Maybe this is just dumb gut or something but idk.

I keep going back and forth on Celever because I feel like his more recent stuff is genuine, but at the same time him townreading Spiffy and then voting him is completely bizarre. But at the same time it's such an obvious mistake that I'm not sure if mafia would make it? Mafia is hard.

Sunny gradually revealing his thoughts makes me feel more like he's a townie because of the way he's showing his thought process, and I feel like if he was mafia he would just make up a reason for why he thought that Celever was scummy instead of going "idk" because it leaves him more open to attacks.

I don't get why people think that ButteredToast scumslipped. It looked more like he was suggesting that the town is looking for the mafia and the mafia are trying to figure out who has what roles or something. I don't see anything about the mafia's ability to talk to each other in that post either so I really don't get it.

Gotta go, more later maybe.
 
I don't know why the active players ignored my post (i can understand fate being jalmont's friend and spiffy being scummy)
What? First of all, why would Fate being Jalmont's friend (are they even lol?) be excusable? And why do you specify that the active players are more at fault for "ignoring" your post about Jalmont? Either way, I've already explained why Jalmont isn't my top priority and I really don't feel like finding it.

This is also the first time you have ever mentioned me being scummy so I would appreciate if you would elaborate on that.

But yeah I will be rereading and posting my reads within the next few hours so everyone stay tuned!
 
haunted diamond said:
Am i the only one who finds jalmont's claim implausible? I mean it makes sense for someone to try to lure people with a false no lynch, but there are two things that are bothering me:
1) There are so many new people to NOC in this game, who might have seen no lynch as a legit strategy and would just have followed it. That wouldn't prove they are mafia making his lure pointless.
2) The more experienced players wouldn't just believe in a no lynch (let alone the fact that they would find it suspicious; maybe jalmont underestimated them), again making his lure totally pointless.

It just doesn't feel like a lure to me. Come on. what am i missing?
It wasn't to prove anyone as mafia. It was meant to garner reactions from different people. The fact that people react to it in different ways suggests it worked. I didn't ignore your post btw but I basically explained why it was wrong. There's literally (well at least I don't think so) no way to determine alignment from whether or not they support no lynch... but it is some sort of information along with how people respond to me.

I wanted to drop the topic because I thought we had more pressing leads (i.e. celever) but it's fine to dwell on it if others find it important.

I'm worried that Serious Bananas is getting by with the bare minimum in posts but I'm feeling pretty meh on that for now.

My main issue with Cancerous is that a lot of his posts are summary/repetitive and don't really offer anything new to the discussion. He has a lot of town reads but no real ideas as to who the mafia are. I think in his last post he said he wants to hear more from me , celever, and spiffy, but there's no real reason why?? I also think his one post where he tried to defend his contributions with his one sentence post asking others on thoughts on moi was really weak tbh. yeah that's basically why i'm voting him anyways.

von's #271 is actually a really nice summary on how I feel about fatecrashers as well
 
What? First of all, why would Fate being Jalmont's friend (are they even lol?) be excusable? And why do you specify that the active players are more at fault for "ignoring" your post about Jalmont? Either way, I've already explained why Jalmont isn't my top priority and I really don't feel like finding it.

This is also the first time you have ever mentioned me being scummy so I would appreciate if you would elaborate on that.

But yeah I will be rereading and posting my reads within the next few hours so everyone stay tuned!
Well I assumed because they might be old friends fate doesn't want to be rude to him and just gives him the benefit of doubt...
I have played IRL mafia a lot before, there's always this mafia guy who bosses people around and plays the role of "confident townie"; your playstyle looks kinda similar to me. You were ok but when you jumped at cancerous for simply giving the sub what he wanted everything about you just started to look scummy to me (the confident scum kind of thing, much easier to pull off in online mafia).
Though it is odd that people are actually following your lynch and that's why i asked about their reason to vote cancerous in my last post.
 
It wasn't to prove anyone as mafia. It was meant to garner reactions from different people. The fact that people react to it in different ways suggests it worked. I didn't ignore your post btw but I basically explained why it was wrong. There's literally (well at least I don't think so) no way to determine alignment from whether or not they support no lynch... but it is some sort of information along with how people respond to me.

I wanted to drop the topic because I thought we had more pressing leads (i.e. celever) but it's fine to dwell on it if others find it important.

I'm worried that Serious Bananas is getting by with the bare minimum in posts but I'm feeling pretty meh on that for now.

My main issue with Cancerous is that a lot of his posts are summary/repetitive and don't really offer anything new to the discussion. He has a lot of town reads but no real ideas as to who the mafia are. I think in his last post he said he wants to hear more from me , celever, and spiffy, but there's no real reason why?? I also think his one post where he tried to defend his contributions with his one sentence post asking others on thoughts on moi was really weak tbh. yeah that's basically why i'm voting him anyways.

von's #271 is actually a really nice summary on how I feel about fatecrashers as well
Well that's a weird way to start discussion?? I mean I would've been more understanding if you hadn't tried to justify it with another post. IDK what you say makes sense, but if i accept your point then anyone who has a scumslip can just claim it was all part of a "plan" to make discussion going...
 
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