-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Project The PU Theorymon Project [Week eighteen: Meganium]
- Thread starter MZ
- Start date
- Status
Eevee General
Eevee General
Last edited:
Eevee general FTW
Eevee General
Frogadier @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Low Kick
- Knock Off / Sucker Punch
Remember all those bulky Water-types that Frogadier had trouble with? Well, Frogadier no longer has to worry.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Articuno: 195-229 (50.9 - 59.7%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Politoed: 205-244 (53.5 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Poliwrath: 307-367 (79.9 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Knock Off is also useful for more damage on Psychic and Ghost-types + taking away item. Sucker Punch is for priority and predicting attacks.
also first :p
Last edited:
Frogadier @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Hydro Pump
- Grass Knot
The addition of Spikes on Frogadier's movepool is a small and quick change which can make it much more viable in the long run. Frogadier can become another great Hazard Setter in the tier with solid Speed and Attacking presence. Spikes will also allow it to avoid Electric Type moves when predicted correctly and can help it take on threats such as Raichu, Zebstrika and others. Spikes and Toxic Spikes paired with Protean allow Frogadier to take on Grass and Electric Types so much easier.
Frogadier @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Low Kick
This is basically the same thing as the set rubsomebacononit posted, but it has Volt Switch > Thunderbolt. If Frogadier got Volt Switch, it wouldn't have to worry about the bulkier water types of the tier and it would allow it to gain more momentum. The one problem with using Volt Switch over U-Turn is the inability to gain momentum on Ground-types, but no Ground-type wants to switch into a possible Hydro Pump or Ice Beam.
Last edited:
Dundies and rubsomebacononit I'm not really sure how it would learn Electric Type Moves. While it would make it generally better I wouldn't see it implemented onto it due to the lack on sense it makes.
does it have to make sense? megazard z said it was ok
rubsomebacononit I just feel like it would be more realistic and a viable change that is more on the possible or could be seen type of thing. Electric Moves just don't look like they're coming from a Frog.
agreed. although i cant think of anything else :(
Water / Fighting
Frogadier @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Parting Shot
Fighting type gives it new resistances to Rock, Bug and Dark, giving it a few more switch-in opportunities. SR damage is reduced, Knock Off & Sucker Punch are less threatening, bug resistance can let it switch in on predicted U-Turns, it can switch into Armaldo (even 5x hit Rock Blast doesn't KO), and probably the best thing is it can now check Pawniard. Frogadier can switch into Pawniard and OHKO with Hydro Pump as long as it doesn't get its Life Orb knocked off, and Pawniard's +2 Sucker Punch fails to OHKO after Stealth Rock damage. Parting Shot lets Frogadier grab momentum while reducing the opponent's offensive presence.
Frogadier is a fairly capable special attacker, especially with Protean, Life Orb, its decent Special Attack stat and a wide array of powerful special moves, but what holds it back from being truly effective in PU is its poor bulk and its inability to KO faster threats without Paralysis / Sticky Web / Tailwind support. Similarly, it struggles against powerful Pokemon with priority, like Pawniard and Mightyena. However, there's a move it could receive to alleviate its somewhat disappointing Speed stat and improve its ability as a cleaner, without making it too overpowered in PU.
+ Vacuum Wave
Justification: It wouldn't be inconceivable for the Greninja line to receive Vacuum Wave through breeding at some point, given its froggy brethren, Toxicroak and Croagunk, already have access to it. By simply adding Froakie, Frogadier and Greninja to the Humanshape Egg Group, this could become possible. According to its Pokedex entry, "It appears and vanishes with a ninja's grace. It toys with its enemies using swift movements, while slicing them with throwing stars of sharpest water." With Vacuum Wave being quick and Ninja-like, this move would suit Frogadier aesthetically, too.
Theorymon: The problem with justifying a team slot for Frogadier basically boils down to the fact that other offensive Water types in PU often make it so it's left behind in favor of more viable options, like Poliwrath or Floatzel. Floatzel is at a superior speed tier and has slightly better bulk, while Poliwrath is much more splashable and provides teams with a multitude of resistances and an immunity to Water type attacks.
However, with the addition of Vacuum Wave, Frogadier would need less support and could fit in on most offensive teams (especially on teams where a cleaner is needed, like on Spike Stack). Frogadier could also see some use over Poliwrath, as it receives STAB from every move it gets, it hits harder, and is much faster (save for Poliwrath's offensive RD sets).
Vacuum Wave Frogadier would still be a step shy from being overpowered because fast Psychic types who resist Vacuum Wave still exist, like Scarf Mr. Mime and Kadabra; they would be able to take a hit and KO back with STAB. Similarly, Special Walls like Regice and Lickilicky would still be able to sponge a hit from Frogadier, even with this new super effective coverage. Vacuum Wave would simply make Frogadier better in terms of its cleaning ability, and against Pokemon with priorty, like Mightyena and Pawniard especially.
Here's what a possible set would look like:
Frogadier @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Vacuum Wave
- Grass Knot
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
+ Vacuum Wave
Justification: It wouldn't be inconceivable for the Greninja line to receive Vacuum Wave through breeding at some point, given its froggy brethren, Toxicroak and Croagunk, already have access to it. By simply adding Froakie, Frogadier and Greninja to the Humanshape Egg Group, this could become possible. According to its Pokedex entry, "It appears and vanishes with a ninja's grace. It toys with its enemies using swift movements, while slicing them with throwing stars of sharpest water." With Vacuum Wave being quick and Ninja-like, this move would suit Frogadier aesthetically, too.
Theorymon: The problem with justifying a team slot for Frogadier basically boils down to the fact that other offensive Water types in PU often make it so it's left behind in favor of more viable options, like Poliwrath or Floatzel. Floatzel is at a superior speed tier and has slightly better bulk, while Poliwrath is much more splashable and provides teams with a multitude of resistances and an immunity to Water type attacks.
However, with the addition of Vacuum Wave, Frogadier would need less support and could fit in on most offensive teams (especially on teams where a cleaner is needed, like on Spike Stack). Frogadier could also see some use over Poliwrath, as it receives STAB from every move it gets, it hits harder, and is much faster (save for Poliwrath's offensive RD sets).
Vacuum Wave Frogadier would still be a step shy from being overpowered because fast Psychic types who resist Vacuum Wave still exist, like Scarf Mr. Mime and Kadabra; they would be able to take a hit and KO back with STAB. Similarly, Special Walls like Regice and Lickilicky would still be able to sponge a hit from Frogadier, even with this new super effective coverage. Vacuum Wave would simply make Frogadier better in terms of its cleaning ability, and against Pokemon with priorty, like Mightyena and Pawniard especially.
Here's what a possible set would look like:
Frogadier @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Vacuum Wave
- Grass Knot
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
Last edited:
- Status