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Project The PU Theorymon Project [Week eighteen: Meganium]
- Thread starter MZ
- Start date
- Status
Let me preface this post a little bit before putting the set up.
So when I was reading the posts, I kept asking myself, "Just why isn't physical Zebstrika used more? 100 attack is good, and 116 speed is great! What is wrong?" So to answer this question, I looked at other physical attackers in the tier.
Poliwrath and Carracosta are bulky and can set up. Rapidash has healing and powerful STAB options along with good coverage. Dodrio has reliable STAB options. Does Zebstrika have these traits?
Zebstrika does not have bulk...75/63/63 sounds more like a joke than a tank. Zebstrika could possibly have some healing options, but that brings us back to the bulk problem. Coverage and setup have been covered elsewhere in this thread, and I don't want to be redundant. That leaves STAB options, but Zebstrika has those. In fact, it has 2: Thunderbolt and Wild Charge.
This is where the set idea starts to gain ground. Wild Charge, in my opinion, is a horrible STAB move to rely on. 90 base power is fairly subpar, and the 1/4 recoil makes it so that any staying power that Zebstrika has is limited and underwhelming. So most people use Thunderbolt which only has the drawback of running off of the weaker base 80 special attack. I consider the lack of a good STAB option for Zebstrika to be paramount in ruining any physical sets. So...
Zebstrika @ Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Return
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Water]/Double Kick/Volt Switch
I absolutely hate how lazy this looks. I despise it, but changing Wild Charge to Fusion Bolt really does change a lot for the zebra. No longer does Zebstrika have to deal with the building damage from recoil: Fusion Bolt fixes this of these problems. Now Zebstrika has the ability to make something out of every switch-in it has.
The main problem with Wild Charge was how limiting it was. The recoil is the main problem, and results in Zebstrika taking huge chunks of damage that adds up after considering Life Orb and entry hazards. With all of that adding up, your ability to even use this pokemon was minimal, and the lackluster damage does not make up for the recoil at all (whereas Brave Bird and Flare Blitz certainly do). Physical Zebstrika limits its own usefulness and longevity just by using the move that is supposed to be its go-to move. With Fusion Bolt, none of the above applies at all. The ability to spam STAB without drawbacks makes Zebstrika considerably more reliable and therefore playable.
I can imagine this set playing similarly to Life Orb Stoutland: you come in, you use your reliable STAB option to do as much damage as you can, you leave...rinse and repeat. The lack of recoil and a small bump to power really does push Zebstrika to par with other physical attackers.
My favorite part of this set is how it improves Zebstrika without changing the metagame all that much. Piloswine still laughs on the switch-in, and many of this set's checks still work just fine. There are some interesting calcs that arise from the extra 10 base power, which are here:
To conclude my thesis paper over a small and simple change: All Zebstrika needs to make it go from 'ok' to 'great' is a good STAB option. Adding Fusion Bolt makes physical Zebstrika about as viable as Stoutland and Dodrio and others, and makes Zebstrika overall a much more versatile Pokemon that could easily find its way on to plenty of teams.
So when I was reading the posts, I kept asking myself, "Just why isn't physical Zebstrika used more? 100 attack is good, and 116 speed is great! What is wrong?" So to answer this question, I looked at other physical attackers in the tier.
Poliwrath and Carracosta are bulky and can set up. Rapidash has healing and powerful STAB options along with good coverage. Dodrio has reliable STAB options. Does Zebstrika have these traits?
Zebstrika does not have bulk...75/63/63 sounds more like a joke than a tank. Zebstrika could possibly have some healing options, but that brings us back to the bulk problem. Coverage and setup have been covered elsewhere in this thread, and I don't want to be redundant. That leaves STAB options, but Zebstrika has those. In fact, it has 2: Thunderbolt and Wild Charge.
This is where the set idea starts to gain ground. Wild Charge, in my opinion, is a horrible STAB move to rely on. 90 base power is fairly subpar, and the 1/4 recoil makes it so that any staying power that Zebstrika has is limited and underwhelming. So most people use Thunderbolt which only has the drawback of running off of the weaker base 80 special attack. I consider the lack of a good STAB option for Zebstrika to be paramount in ruining any physical sets. So...
Zebstrika @ Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Return
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Water]/Double Kick/Volt Switch
I absolutely hate how lazy this looks. I despise it, but changing Wild Charge to Fusion Bolt really does change a lot for the zebra. No longer does Zebstrika have to deal with the building damage from recoil: Fusion Bolt fixes this of these problems. Now Zebstrika has the ability to make something out of every switch-in it has.
The main problem with Wild Charge was how limiting it was. The recoil is the main problem, and results in Zebstrika taking huge chunks of damage that adds up after considering Life Orb and entry hazards. With all of that adding up, your ability to even use this pokemon was minimal, and the lackluster damage does not make up for the recoil at all (whereas Brave Bird and Flare Blitz certainly do). Physical Zebstrika limits its own usefulness and longevity just by using the move that is supposed to be its go-to move. With Fusion Bolt, none of the above applies at all. The ability to spam STAB without drawbacks makes Zebstrika considerably more reliable and therefore playable.
I can imagine this set playing similarly to Life Orb Stoutland: you come in, you use your reliable STAB option to do as much damage as you can, you leave...rinse and repeat. The lack of recoil and a small bump to power really does push Zebstrika to par with other physical attackers.
My favorite part of this set is how it improves Zebstrika without changing the metagame all that much. Piloswine still laughs on the switch-in, and many of this set's checks still work just fine. There are some interesting calcs that arise from the extra 10 base power, which are here:
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 117-138 (36.1 - 42.5%)
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 130-153 (40.1 - 47.2%)
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Wild Charge vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 117-138 (38.4 - 45.3%)
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Fusion Bolt vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 130-153 (42.7 - 50.3%)
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninetales: 203-239 (70.7 - 83.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninetales: 226-266 (78.7 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jumpluff: 214-253 (73.5 - 86.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jumpluff: 238-281 (81.7 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Tangela: 47-56 (14 - 16.7%)
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Tangela: 52-62 (15.5 - 18.5%)
This calc is here mainly to show that the usual checks don't really notice the difference.
The list goes on in a similar fashion. The changes are mostly small, but there are a few that matter. Overall, the difference in power does not break Zebstrika that much.
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 130-153 (40.1 - 47.2%)
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Wild Charge vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 117-138 (38.4 - 45.3%)
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Fusion Bolt vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 130-153 (42.7 - 50.3%)
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninetales: 203-239 (70.7 - 83.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninetales: 226-266 (78.7 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jumpluff: 214-253 (73.5 - 86.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jumpluff: 238-281 (81.7 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Tangela: 47-56 (14 - 16.7%)
252 Atk Life Orb Zebstrika Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Tangela: 52-62 (15.5 - 18.5%)
This calc is here mainly to show that the usual checks don't really notice the difference.
The list goes on in a similar fashion. The changes are mostly small, but there are a few that matter. Overall, the difference in power does not break Zebstrika that much.
To conclude my thesis paper over a small and simple change: All Zebstrika needs to make it go from 'ok' to 'great' is a good STAB option. Adding Fusion Bolt makes physical Zebstrika about as viable as Stoutland and Dodrio and others, and makes Zebstrika overall a much more versatile Pokemon that could easily find its way on to plenty of teams.
Last edited:
Wild charge is 100% accurate tho
I absolutely convinced myself otherwise...thanks for pointing it out. Will fix, but the main point about recoil still stands.
I see Fusion Bolt as a nice option but actually the calcs aren't exactly good toshow the upgrade between Wild charge and Fusion Bolt... Since the OHKO's were already pretty near from 100% and the 3HKOs on Missy and Probopass are still 3HKOs (well it does have a slight chance of 2HKOing Probo... But pretty slim). So... I dunno...
That was the point, actually. It shows that there is improvement without breaking Zebstrika completely and keeping the original idea intact. It is not meant to be an upgrade on the damage side, only an upgrade on the 'no recoil so the thing can actually live long enough to do something' side. Anyway...
Ben Ohver
Ben Ohver
It's true... I was just pointing how those calcs aren't that much relevant and I'm sure you could find some calcs that actually show the improvement between the two of them, including defensive calcs that shows how now Zeb can handle some enemies without the recoil... But sadly it looks like this thread is just to see "how can I make Zebstrika broken" cuz the ones that have the most votes are just the ones that kinda messes up with the main idea of the selected poke by giving it broken typing/moves and making 2 or 3 changes... Soooooo... I guess that I would go with Ben Ohver which is one of the most "pure" changes...
Mag. Ne. Mite.
Ben Ohver
BenOhver
Simple change that makes a difference. This only has to make something more viable, not top tier...
Simple change that makes a difference. This only has to make something more viable, not top tier...
Dragon / Poison Type
Sliggoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Gooey
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Sludge Wave
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
Just a small addition of Poison Typing can make Sliggoo a much more viable Pokemon in the metagame while not making it too powerful. Another addition of Toxic Spikes allows it to become a new and different take on Spiking. It gives Roselia a sort of run for its money with a different and Powerful STAB and defensive typing. Sliggoo also would be the only Spiker (barring Frog) which isn't weak to Fire Type Moves.
Sliggoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Dragon Pulse
- Rain Dance
- Thunderbolt / Protect
Sliggoo now becomes Dragon / Water type. A common issue that Sliggoo has is lack of recovery outside of Rest, and I tried to come up with a creative way to do so without resorting to a variant of Recover. Instead, I came up with Dry Skin! This heals Sliggoo in Rain, which it will carry as a form of recovery. However, it just wouldn't be complete without Scald, now would it? It still faces issues, with pressure and such, and having to rely on Rain Dance (meanings just five turns, but that could be enough). Not too strong, but certainly a nice buff with Scald, a great typing, and reliable recovery.
EV
Banned deucer.
This guy has some good bulk, especially with an Eviolite attached. Unfortunately it lacks in recovery outside of Rest and since it will want that Eviolite, it loses access to Leftovers. A mediocre Special Attack prevents it from taking any offensive role most of the time. All in all, Sliggoo struggles to make an impact in PU due to its absence of longevity and firepower. There's an ability that can address both of these issues, however, and turn it into a useful pivot with longevity and the potential to apply offensive pressure all in one.
+Regenerator (-Hydration)
Justification: It's harder to make a compelling case for Regenerator over something like Sticky Hold, which would play off the dex entry mentioning how it excretes a sticky substance. However, since it is made of a gooey, sticky substance and its evolution Goodra begins to drip in its animation, the stretch to say this material regenerates overtime isn't too far out of the realm of Poke Science.
Theorymon: Sliggoo's defensive role wouldn't change that much with Regenerator--it would just get better. Pivoting becomes much easier and mistakes can be recovered from with a simple switch out and Dragon is a cool type to absorb common Water, Fire, and Grass attacks found among top tier Pokemon. Spamming Draco Meteor gets easier as well now that switching is encouraged and the drops are erased as you regain HP. With quite a few coverage moves you can cater its set to check a range of threats with Sludge Wave, Muddy Water, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt.
Regenerator doesn't just tilt Sliggoo more to the defensive side, however. Base 60 Speed isn't god awful (though it's not great), so with an investment it could outpace some of the tier's slower threats. And since it has respectable special bulk already, you might even forgo the Eviolite for a Life Orb, an item that works wonderfully with Regenerator. With its typing, bulk, and improved offenses, it could still pivot in on resisted hits and threaten back with decent power off 83 Special Attack, which I should note is higher than other special threats like Ninetales and Zebstrika and just two less than Floatzel. Plus its main STAB Draco Meteor has a high base power which further invigorates its middling Special Attack.
Conclusion: Regenerator presents two options for Sliggoo: bulky Eviolite pivot or Life Orb attacker. Regenerator helps unearth its great coverage that hits most of the tier for SE damage plus a high BP STAB move, which I think would make Sliggoo more viable and worth consideration on teams looking for a versatile, bulky special attacker.
Possible Set:
Sliggoo @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Muddy Water / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Muddy Water / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
+Regenerator (-Hydration)
Justification: It's harder to make a compelling case for Regenerator over something like Sticky Hold, which would play off the dex entry mentioning how it excretes a sticky substance. However, since it is made of a gooey, sticky substance and its evolution Goodra begins to drip in its animation, the stretch to say this material regenerates overtime isn't too far out of the realm of Poke Science.
Theorymon: Sliggoo's defensive role wouldn't change that much with Regenerator--it would just get better. Pivoting becomes much easier and mistakes can be recovered from with a simple switch out and Dragon is a cool type to absorb common Water, Fire, and Grass attacks found among top tier Pokemon. Spamming Draco Meteor gets easier as well now that switching is encouraged and the drops are erased as you regain HP. With quite a few coverage moves you can cater its set to check a range of threats with Sludge Wave, Muddy Water, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt.
Regenerator doesn't just tilt Sliggoo more to the defensive side, however. Base 60 Speed isn't god awful (though it's not great), so with an investment it could outpace some of the tier's slower threats. And since it has respectable special bulk already, you might even forgo the Eviolite for a Life Orb, an item that works wonderfully with Regenerator. With its typing, bulk, and improved offenses, it could still pivot in on resisted hits and threaten back with decent power off 83 Special Attack, which I should note is higher than other special threats like Ninetales and Zebstrika and just two less than Floatzel. Plus its main STAB Draco Meteor has a high base power which further invigorates its middling Special Attack.
Conclusion: Regenerator presents two options for Sliggoo: bulky Eviolite pivot or Life Orb attacker. Regenerator helps unearth its great coverage that hits most of the tier for SE damage plus a high BP STAB move, which I think would make Sliggoo more viable and worth consideration on teams looking for a versatile, bulky special attacker.
Possible Set:
Sliggoo @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Muddy Water / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Muddy Water / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Status