ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M3 (READ POST #823)

[Kyuzeth]

So forgive my retardation about Tyrantrum (that's why I deleted the post) but I have to ask this question:

Why in the hell is Mega Glalie B rank?

You mean B-, not B. Anyway, Mega Glalie's niche is that it's an offensive Spiker with some massive power behind it. Refrigerate Double-Edges hit like a truck and if Mega Glalie is at the verge of fainting, you can pretty much guarantee a kill with Refrigerate Explosion. It faces a lot of competition from Mega Abomasnow and Mamoswine, but the offensive Spiking gives it a decent enough niche to warrant it being B-.

Hope that explains things for ya.

 

[Nightingales]

Plus, Ice is outright insane in this meta, plus that's a mon with access to Freeze Dry so it can actually dispatch low-health waters effectively, and it carrier priority and I'm pretty sure gets Taunt too.

 

[Cheryl.]

I've been trying out Tyrantrum recently and it is a monster. Like, only a really bulky rock,ground,or steel type wants to take a Head Smash from this thing. It can also try to sweep with Dragon Dance or Rock Polish. 4x resistance to fire type moves really help it try and set up as well. While it has a low speed and special defense stat, when used right, it can crush so much stuff it's not even funny. I think it should move up to A rank. Another nomination I would like to make is Moltres to B/B+ rank. fire and flying STAB is really good, and coming off a 125 special attack stat is nice as well. It's like a Mega Pidgeot that has STAB fire moves and has 70 accuracy hurricane. Its speed isnt too bad either, as 90 is pretty decent in UU. Sure, the Stealth Rock weakness hurts it a LOT, and the amount of Pidgeot checks out there that can also check it (Except for Empoleon, who fears LO Fire blast) hurts as well, but when Pidgeot is banned, the amount of checks will fall, and Moltres will rule. Moltres for B/B+

 

[shiloh]

I've been trying out Tyrantrum recently and it is a monster. Like, only a really bulky rock,ground,or steel type wants to take a Head Smash from this thing. It can also try to sweep with Dragon Dance or Rock Polish. 4x resistance to fire type moves really help it try and set up as well. While it has a low speed and special defense stat, when used right, it can crush so much stuff it's not even funny. I think it should move up to A rank. Another nomination I would like to make is Moltres to B/B+ rank. fire and flying STAB is really good, and coming off a 125 special attack stat is nice as well. It's like a Mega Pidgeot that has STAB fire moves and has 70 accuracy hurricane. Its speed isnt too bad either, as 90 is pretty decent in UU. Sure, the Stealth Rock weakness hurts it a LOT, and the amount of Pidgeot checks out there that can also check it (Except for Empoleon, who fears LO Fire blast) hurts as well, but when Pidgeot is banned, the amount of checks will fall, and Moltres will rule. Moltres for B/B+

Rankings aren't done based on what you think the future of the metagame will turn out to be. Right now in UU there are a lot of Mega-Pidgeot checks, so Moltres does have a hard time in UU. If Mega Pidgeot is banned, then maybe Moltres will have a much easier time in UU, but until then it should stay where it is.

 

[Venoxio]

So forgive my retardation about Tyrantrum (that's why I deleted the post) but I have to ask this question:

Why in the hell is Mega Glalie B rank?

Good question about M-Glalie, but I wouldn't complain if it were B- rank. I think it has wallbreaking power with Explosion, which has it's downfalls but hits like a nuke, has decent priority with Ice Shard, and it can run a mixed set viably (with the most notable move being Freeze-Dry to counter bulky waters) thanks to it's distributed attack stats. It's speed isn't too bad either. Finally, it gets good coverage with Earthquake, which i feel like is a bit uncommon. Don't really know, haven't seen too much of it.

 

[Nightingales]

Hey, so. Just gonna nom Reuniclus for A+ because I'm faster getting to the thread. Other people will probably logic it later.

 

[teal6]

Rankings aren't done based on what you think the future of the metagame will turn out to be. Right now in UU there are a lot of Mega-Pidgeot checks, so Moltres does have a hard time in UU. If Mega Pidgeot is banned, then maybe Moltres will have a much easier time in UU, but until then it should stay where it is.

Just run both and wear down the counters for the other badabing badaboom you got a 1500 ELO ladder team right there

I'm tempted to float MAbomasnow up again. With SR up, he beats every single S rank mon. Priority, Hail chip damage, access to SD, can function under TR, insanely powerful Blizzards if you go the special or mixed route, decent bulk, somewhat useful resistances (though tempered by somewhat annoying weaknesses). Probably my favorite mon to use in UU for a long time now, a strong priority Ice Shard is a blessing these days IMO.

 

[Cheryl.]

Hey, so. Just gonna nom Reuniclus for A+ because I'm faster getting to the thread. Other people will probably logic it later.

I agree with this. With it's checks removed and a couple Calm Minds under it's belt, Reuni steamrolls through teams. It also has a neat Trick Room set that hurts offense. I also have a nomination to make. Can we get Doublade to A-? First of all, its rare Steel/Ghost typing helps it wall pokemon like the aforementioned CM reuniclus without shadow ball. It also has amazing physical bulk and acceptable special bulk with eviolite. It can hit pretty hard after a swords dance and has shadow sneak to mitigate it's bad speed and to pick off weakened foes. Problems are it's bad special bulk and ability to get worn down easily, but Doublade I think is easily an A- mon right now.

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

With solid mixed attacking stats + movepool, a powerful priority move in Sucker Punch, great set up moves in Nasty Plot & Swords Dance, and even some utility with Defog, Shiftry is not a bad UU pokemon. It is an offensive check to Suicune, Feraligtr, Krookodile, M-Stoise, M-Pert, etc. and can wear/break down an opposing team early to mid game by dishing out powerful LO hits and Knocking Off items. I built a team around it that hit 1570s on the ladder (which is good for me), and I found it to be a legitimate UU threat.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-242367006

It doesn't deserve to be a top tier 'mon, but I think it belongs in these rankings around the B- to C range.

 

[sniperr]

Hey, so. Just gonna nom Reuniclus for A+ because I'm faster getting to the thread. Other people will probably logic it later.

not quite sure if I think reuniclus is worthy. it has far too many common offensive answers such as Hydreigon, doublade, entei, heracross, roar cune, krookodile..Ect. though I do agree reuniclus is a threat, its extremely hard to make it shine effectively in this current meta game. I think it is fine where it is at.

 

[Duskt]

I think more discussion needs to be had regarding Moltres. As some have said before, it has a solid STAB combination which gives it nearly unparalleled coverage in UU. I think a B rank is solid for it because it has some more pronounced flaws than Mega Pidgeot but has some more pronounced strengths. Moltres, like Mega Pidgeot, can be a versatile threat, carrying Life Orbs, Choice items, Leftovers, or other items. With sets like a Life Orb or Specs wallbreaker, scarfed revenge killer, a SubToxic and/or Roost set to PP stall and/or wallbreak at the same time, Agility to clean up offensive teams or even Defog with its useful resistances to Fighting, Fairy, Bug, Grass and an immunity to Ground, despite the rocks weakness, it can beat nearly every rocks setter in the tier (beyond Swampert and offensive Krooks with Stone Edge (is that even a thing?)) 1 on 1. Furthermore, Life Orb sets actually hit HARDER than Mega Pidgeot ever could:

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 114-135 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 140-165 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Granted, the accuracy issue is one of the more pronounced flaws of Moltres, but you have a reliable secondary STAB in Flamethrower or Fire Blast, as opposed to Pidgeot, which has no secondary STAB to use. Moltres does not have a move to boost its Special Attack, but it is hard to switch into nonetheless, as Pidgeot has trouble setting up on basically anything. Moltres (90/90/85) also has noticeably better bulk than Mega Pidgeot (83/80/80), with the aforementioned resistances. But, like I said earlier, Mega Pidgeot is more reliable and faster. Moltres can perform more roles but can be more risky to use due to unfavourable matchups versus Rock types and faster threats.

 

[Wanka]

Yea I think moltres has been getting a lot of love lately. The fire bird is literally a nuke packed with a life orb and has decent speed to go along with it along with some decent natural bulk. It has also been seen as a very versatile mon that can run a multitude of sets from a nuke set to sub roost to even a plausible mon on stall. There is no doubt in my mind that this thing deserves a bump and I honestly would not even surprised if it hit B+ because its raw power is enormous.

However, it does require a good chunk of support with that rocks weakness which can really hinder it at times and accuracy within its move pool can be really annoying at times so I could understand if it is only limited to B. None the less it deserves a bump to at least one of those two ranks.

252+ SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 177-211 (47.5 - 56.7%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (dead after rocks)

252+ SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Florges: 169-200 (47.6 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (lol donk)

252+ SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 199-235 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (lol donk)

Fire bird is not one to mess with.

 

[r0ady]

why are we doing calcs for calm florg like its still a thing lol

but i think the biggest thing moltres has over pidg is will-o-wisp which basically says fuck you to aero, can wittle down empoleon who has no recovery (timids better so theres no point trying to 2hko emp) wittle rhyperior, ease the 2hko on florg or at the very least force it to aromatheropy etc. And the power difference is really noticable lol

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 247-292 (94.6 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 202-238 (77.3 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 289-341 (77.8 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 235-277 (63.3 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Machamp: 351-413 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Machamp: 284-336 (78 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Duskt]

Another final thing is that Moltres doesn't take a mega slot. That could be used for something else instead.

 

[DaSpoofy]

Lemme help you out with them calcs there R0ady

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 247-292 (94.6 - 111.8%) or (0%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO if Moltres doesn't miss

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 202-238 (77.3 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 289-341 (77.8 - 91.9%) or (0%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock if Moltres doesn't miss

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 235-277 (63.3 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I think Moltres should be compared to pokes with more similar likeness. A Moltres hurricane should not be compared with an S rank pokemon's hurricane that never misses. Obviously if Moltres misses then Pidge will outshine as it tends to do. Comparing Fireblast damage to the common Chandy I feel would be more appropriate or Its hurricane damage to Tornadus-I.

Moltres is cool but the problem is missing as both its main stabs have a descent chance of doing. You can have flame thrower but it really cuts down on its wall breaking capabilities as OGWanka has shown with those surprising calcs. I see moltres fitting in more as a Fire SpA attacker than a hurricane user. I rather use Airslash but that's just me. Even with all this I still believe Moltres to B rank.

 

[psVoltage]

Lemme help you out with them calcs there R0ady

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 247-292 (94.6 - 111.8%) or (0%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO if Moltres doesn't miss

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 202-238 (77.3 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 289-341 (77.8 - 91.9%) or (0%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock if Moltres doesn't miss

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 235-277 (63.3 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I think Moltres should be compared to pokes with more similar likeness. A Moltres hurricane should not be compared with an S rank pokemon's hurricane that never misses. Obviously if Moltres misses then Pidge will outshine as it tends to do. Comparing Fireblast damage to the common Chandy I feel would be more appropriate or Its hurricane damage to Tornadus-I.

Moltres is cool but the problem is missing as both its main stabs have a descent chance of doing. You can have flame thrower but it really cuts down on its wall breaking capabilities as OGWanka has shown with those surprising calcs. I see moltres fitting in more as a Fire SpA attacker than a hurricane user. I rather use Airslash but that's just me. Even with all this I still believe Moltres to B rank.

Run wide lens

 

[sniperr]

personally I can see moltress being a threat. its coverage is pretty good and hits like a truck. though it does need a lot of support to keep hazards off seeing as its 4x weak to it. special flying stab is incredible, considering it takes on most of the special walls in the tier, I can see it at b rank.

 

[Lapras!]

Moltres can also abuse pressure and run a viable defensive set with defog and will-o-wisp, so yeah i would support the move to B
Can check a lot of things with its great defensive typing. Rocks weakness is obviously a problem but with a second hazard remover and smart play it isn't as big an issue as you'd think it would be

 

[GULLY]

What happened to putting Mega Pert to A+? everyone that has commented about it has agreed that a rise is due.

 

[QueenOfHax]

Once again I think Mamoswine should be considered for S-rank, this time for a very simple reason: 4 of the 5 S-rank pokemon are weak to Ice, and the 5th one (Feraligatr) is still weak to Freeze-Dry while being slower than Mamo (78 vs 80 speed). So Mamoswine either revenge kills or denies the switch-in to the entirety of the S rank, the very definition of anti-metagame. There is nothing comparable to Mamo in the entirety of the metagame and it's a welcome addition ot any kind of team except full stall. Conversely, it's very hard to find a team that isn't vulnerable to Mamoswine to some degree, as it gives trouble to offense, stall and balance.

 

[sniperr]

Once again I think Mamoswine should be considered for S-rank, this time for a very simple reason: 4 of the 5 S-rank pokemon are weak to Ice, and the 5th one (Feraligatr) is still weak to Freeze-Dry while being slower than Mamo (78 vs 80 speed). So Mamoswine either revenge kills or denies the switch-in to the entirety of the S rank, the very definition of anti-metagame. There is nothing comparable to Mamo in the entirety of the metagame and it's a welcome addition ot any kind of team except full stall. Conversely, it's very hard to find a team that isn't vulnerable to Mamoswine to some degree, as it gives trouble to offense, stall and balance.

mamoswine is freaking amazing. it is a great lead, revenge killer, wall breaker with insane offensive stabs while having priority ice shard which can be use vs top tier threats like mega aero and Mence. I definitely support this notion to give him s rank. ice in general is very anti meta.

 

[Nightingales]

I'm also supporting the mamoswine thing. I need to be able to shut it down so most of my sweepers can do their job, since the ice/ground coverage literally kills half the tier, and it gives zero fucks about your puny dragons.

 

[DaSpoofy]

Mamoswine is a great pokemon to have but it has some obvious flaws that keep it at A+ rank!

For starters, Mamoswine can't switch in on much. Don't be fooled by its decent defenses because it cant take these super effective hits. Its weak to a lot of common coverage moves as well as stabs. Fire, Water, Grass, Fighting, and Steel all deal super effective while mamo only resists poison. Mamoswine takes nothing from electric of course which does help against choiced rotoms... that is if they don't predict you. Bulky water types take a hit and kill off. Stuff like Shaymin and Arcanine out-speed and kill off with stabs.
Secondly mamoswine is slow. I mean 80 base speed isn't bad and mamo has some nice priority, but other things outspeed and kill. Heracross, Adament Sharpedo, Entei, and Rotoms all get the upper hand on Mamo with super effective moves and out-speeding. How I long for rock polish mamo. Rip the dreams!
Lastly Mamo has no way to viable set up. Curse just makes you even slower and easy to be killed off. Mamoswine has a harder time sweeping than other S rank mons like Pidgeot, Salamence, and Gatr because it does not have access to dragon dance or natural speed.
Don't get me wrong Mamoswine has great potential in uu but it flaws keep it from S rank and makes A+ rank a nice spot for it.

 

[Darvin]

Once again I think Mamoswine should be considered for S-rank, this time for a very simple reason: 4 of the 5 S-rank pokemon are weak to Ice, and the 5th one (Feraligatr) is still weak to Freeze-Dry while being slower than Mamo (78 vs 80 speed). So Mamoswine either revenge kills or denies the switch-in to the entirety of the S rank, the very definition of anti-metagame. There is nothing comparable to Mamo in the entirety of the metagame and it's a welcome addition ot any kind of team except full stall. Conversely, it's very hard to find a team that isn't vulnerable to Mamoswine to some degree, as it gives trouble to offense, stall and balance.

Ice is definitely very anti-meta right now, and Mamoswine is a powerhouse that makes excellent use of its STAB combo to terrorize S-rank and the tier at large. It's got a number of dangerous sets, and you absolutely need to scout carefully so you know what you're dealing with, otherwise you might get blindsided. On the other hand, I think you're really overlooking its defensive shortcomings. Those defenses are so bad that 4/5 of those S-rank pokemon can still beat the standard LO Mamoswine 1v1 if they're at full health.

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 280-330 (77.9 - 91.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pidgeot: 205-244 (66.7 - 79.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 313-369 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 258-304 (71.8 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 187-221 (57.5 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aqua Tail vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 324-382 (90.2 - 106.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 198-234 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 460-541 (128.1 - 150.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 351-416 (97.7 - 115.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Feraligatr: 212-251 (68.1 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
16 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 174-211 (55.9 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Note that Pidgeot and Hydreigon are much closer to OHKO'ing Mamoswine than they appear due to LO recoil. The Scarf, Band, and Sash sets are another story, but each of them has their own problems. Mamoswine is setup bait for lots of stuff when choice-locked, and Scarf and Sash need even more prior damage to get those OHKO's.

So I'm kinda conflicted about Mamoswine to S-rank. That thing sports some impressive offensive pressure and there's almost nothing in the tier that wants to switch into it, but it can't set up and falls short of KO'ing many faster threatens with ice shard. It's not nearly as formidable defensively, and this is only made worse by LO recoil. Its speed is merely okay, and it's dependent on priority or a scarf to deliver on its offensive potential. Overall, I think A+ better suits it due to these flaws.

 

[GULLY]

Disagree with the Mamo move. While its STABs and great and can have unresited coverage with using Knock off along with it STABs, I think its lack of defensive back bone and low versatility(relatively speaking) keep it A+. Ice and Ground are both great offensive but not so much defensively due to Ice being a garb defensive type. All the S-Rank mons have some type of defensive backbone, whether it be recovery or typing in and of it self. Mamo doesnt have this, I'm not trying to say that every S-Rank mon has to have a defensive back bone dont get me wrong. But in Mamo's case it really misses this since it is relatively slow. Its a awesome wall breaker but it can't do as much as the other mons above it, all being able to Wallbreak and Sweep/Clean. Mamo can either run a lead set or a wall breaker set with Band or LO reliably and viably, it does this very well but not to S-Rank standards. It's Offensive stab isn't that good where it should be in the rank of a mon, like Mence who we just raised up that has a countless number of sets and just as much presence offensively.