NOC Fire and Ice Mafia: Fire and Ice tie, the village loses.

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Someone asked me if I had a gun, and had to shoot PokeGuyNXB or Cancerous, which I would choose.

To this I reply PokeGuyNXB because Cancerous has contributions and he has a bunch of joke posts from what I can see. And I did "search Thread" to check.
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
Celever explain to me how you went from this:

to this:

This is contradictory. In the first post you imply that Gale is usually an emotional player when he is town and he is calmer when he is mafia. But in the next one (which is only a few posts later) you vote for Gale because he's being emotional? Please explain.

And Celever we have like a day and a half I think:
I didn't say he's an emotional player when he's town. I said he's hyper. That's the opposite of calm, not emotional :p. He's usually hyper, but also quite informal. The emotion isn't how he usually plays as town and generally the defeatism is a mafia strategy anyway, so I decided to pressure him a bit. I'd still prefer HD over Gale though, which is why I changed my vote.

Also I missed that extension. Whoops >_>
The Diabolic Gift can we have a time for the deadline please?
 

THE_IRON_...KENYAN?

Banned deucer.
ButteredToast ended up having a pretty shitty day yesterday after a very long and very early morning shift and smacked the bed right after he got home until I woke up now at 5am and read through all of these pages. (Eat your heart out Haunted Diamond)

As for my contributions right now, I look at this erected pile of posts and I really don't see much of anything of any substance at all. The conversations are great, but the points near anyone is making are all just a little bit rooted in things that I don't really have much of a grasp on. I don't see how anyone can make any kind of points and be sure anyone is positively mafia or not right now. It seems that in reality, these are just guesses made out of everyone's ass and overthought to the point of irrationality. It seems like one big show trial to me, and maybe that's the point. But half the time I can't tell if people are being arrogant and thinking they are fucking Sigmund Freud and have everyone's brain and intentions mapped out, being busy and looking to contribute something so they get clear village vibes (which every player should be doing regardless of alignment), or if they are just fishing for some kind of minor information on anyone.

With this current set up, it very much feels that there is very very little to go on based on any kind of rational line. Whoever wins this game is going to win more or less on dumb luck because there seems to be no roles besides the doctor. Flips on village won't tell us much because they really don't have informed votes. If they flip mafia, there is still another mafia and their points might still be equally valid to find the other mafia. Also if they flip mafia, trying to find their partner is going to be a mess as we scour the entire field looking for connections to players... and then we end up having a debate over whether they were acting as a team or if the mafia member was buddying someone else to protect them.

I guess what I am saying is that because there are no roles, I am personally just viewing this game as a game of chance. All of my strongish play from the last NOC came on role connections and that dynamic is gone. I'm not really a fan of following anyone's mindset throughout this game because no one has any game information besides their Freud Play. And really the only piece of information I have is that I'm village. So based on that, anyone who gets lynched today that isn't me is fine.
This post seems scummy to me. I mean, its pretty defeatist, but it had good points I feel. I dont think people are thinking they are sigmund freud, i think they are just trying to play the game and have fun, and to be honest in a game like NOC you are gonna be wrong a lot of the time.

Also I bolded this last line. It feels like a thing you would type if you already knew you were mafia and your goal was just to live, but because its in the forefront of your mind it flavored a point you were trying to make. I think if you were towny you would say something like, "So based on that, anyone could be an equal lynch target today."

unvote Gale

vote ButteredToast

Lets hear some more out of you, specifically about each player and what you think of them so far.

I am well aware of the deadline, but once i hear out of buttered toast im going to go back to Gale unless i see something better
 

The Diabolic Gift

Banned deucer.
ButteredToast ended up having a pretty shitty day yesterday after a very long and very early morning shift and smacked the bed right after he got home until I woke up now at 5am and read through all of these pages. (Eat your heart out Haunted Diamond)

As for my contributions right now, I look at this erected pile of posts and I really don't see much of anything of any substance at all. The conversations are great, but the points near anyone is making are all just a little bit rooted in things that I don't really have much of a grasp on. I don't see how anyone can make any kind of points and be sure anyone is positively mafia or not right now. It seems that in reality, these are just guesses made out of everyone's ass and overthought to the point of irrationality. It seems like one big show trial to me, and maybe that's the point. But half the time I can't tell if people are being arrogant and thinking they are fucking Sigmund Freud and have everyone's brain and intentions mapped out, being busy and looking to contribute something so they get clear village vibes (which every player should be doing regardless of alignment), or if they are just fishing for some kind of minor information on anyone.

With this current set up, it very much feels that there is very very little to go on based on any kind of rational line. Whoever wins this game is going to win more or less on dumb luck because there seems to be no roles besides the doctor. Flips on village won't tell us much because they really don't have informed votes. If they flip mafia, there is still another mafia and their points might still be equally valid to find the other mafia. Also if they flip mafia, trying to find their partner is going to be a mess as we scour the entire field looking for connections to players... and then we end up having a debate over whether they were acting as a team or if the mafia member was buddying someone else to protect them.

I guess what I am saying is that because there are no roles, I am personally just viewing this game as a game of chance. All of my strongish play from the last NOC came on role connections and that dynamic is gone. I'm not really a fan of following anyone's mindset throughout this game because no one has any game information besides their Freud Play. And really the only piece of information I have is that I'm village. So based on that, anyone who gets lynched today that isn't me is fine.
Your position has been sealed.
 
Take it less as defeatism as it is me not knowing where to go at the present. I'm not giving up on this game, however I do have a realistic perspective that this game is going to come down to just tough luck and guesses. And the rest of the talking is more or less for show. That said, I'm going to play along with it and will keep up with the happenings. However, if we are going to use this as a way to determine alignment we are never going to really get anywhere.

Right now, all of my reads are fairly meaningless. I have no town reads or mafia reads but I do have general strategy reads which do nothing but offer a series of questions without answers. Are the people who are trying to lead mafia trying to manipulate the masses or villagers trying to win? Are the people who bandwagon doing so because they agree with the mindset or because they are mafia trying to bandwagon? This probably is more mafia, but even with my very limited experience in NOC I know that everyone looks for bandwagoners. So there is as much of looking who didn't bandwagon to find the mafia trying to intentionally not bandwagon as there are on those that did. Are the arguments for Sam and Gale being mafia actually accurately depicting their strategy, or is it just blowing small things to grand proportions? Are the people calling for lynches mafia going for mislynch or village trying to act in a somewhat self-preserving manner while going after what is their mind an educated guess? Are the people who are trying to keep discussion moving village members trying to get information and reads, or are they mafia trying to do the same reading and info getting for the other team in addition to seeming more town?

Like I said, who the fuck knows man? Anyone trying to tell me someone is mafia or village is pretty much making wild guesses based on "evidence" which I can argue against just as clearly in the other perspective. So I got nothing right now guys. And beings how this game is set up, I'm not sure I will be able to offer much more than wild guesses.
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
ButteredToast if you dislike 'scumhunting' (and I sympathize whole-heartedly if you do) then why sign up for this game in the first place...

The gist is basically that this game is different from other Smogon Mafia games. Information control and strategy play basically no role in this; this is purely an exercise in reading people. There is undeniably an element of luck involved just like there is in, say, poker, but the hope is that strong play and good reads can overcome luck in most cases.

Spiffy is totally off-base and is doing a really poor job of explaining himself. He basically says 'yes all your play thus far is village but the fact that you think you are village makes me suspicious of you' which has got to be one of the dumbest arguments against someone I've ever heard.

However given that there is now no deadline I think I'm going to just put my vote where I think the lynch should go today. Spiffy, Cancerous, and Da Letter El I am still expecting contributions from you prior to deadline but I want to start seriously discussing who to lynch so that we can finalize it in a day or two.

Unvote
Lynch Haunted Diamond


I'd be willing to lynch Gale, Acidphoenix, or ButteredToast as well, but I think this is the strongest lynch at the moment. He provided even less reasoning than Gale did when he hopped on my bandwagon, he has played NOC before so he should've known better, and I am a lot more confident in my read on him then I am in my ability to read Gale. He hasn't been contributing much, and we learn a lot about Celever, myself, and Da Letter El from his flip (ie if he flips mafia suddenly all three of us look a lot cleaner). I feel his flip will provide more info than a Gale flip, and I feel he is slightly more likely to be mafia (though I do think that his posts have made more sense than Gale's up until now).

Thoughts on actually lynching Haunted Diamond? Thoughts on a general timeline to agree on potential/actual lynch targets? Personally I want to see one or two more posts from a few people (the ones I mentioned earlier but also the AFKs), but outside of that I'm content to come up with a list of potential lynch targets and then pick one. At this point we are mostly just going back-and-forth over things that already happened (primarily my bandwagon but also the responses to it) and I don't feel like the various pressure votes since then (mostly the ones on Gale) are providing much of an interesting discussion or revealing much.

In other words let's start thinking about wrapping things up for today. I'd like people to post a list of exactly who they would be comfortable lynching today, and what they would like to wait on prior to finalizing the day (particularly if it's different from what I posted above).
 

THE_IRON_...KENYAN?

Banned deucer.
I agree, I think out of all the people today, Haunted Diamond is most likely to be scummy. His lurkiness really makes him look bad in my eyes, and the way he bandwagoned UncleSams vote really seemed off to me. I mean yeah, I started the thing on UncleSam and i think hes scummy but I never actually thought it would get that close so soon, and it certainly wasnt something i wanted to do that fast. I mean, I still feel UncleSam is scummy but he makes good points in regards to Haunted Diamond and i might as well let a might-be mafia do the heavy lifting for the village if hes gonna go out of his way to do it!

Plus I think itd be fun to get this show on the road, so with that said

Unvote

Lynch Haunted Diamond
 
I signed up for this to play an active role in learning how to better play mafia. Understanding how things work at a simplistic level will help me understand how they work at more complex levels. I would also like to practice my ability to be involved in games like this if/when they do arise.Please don't confuse my thoughts with being dissuaded by this game or ripping on how the game was made. Or that I don't want to play, because I do... I just had one off day.

That response is only meant to describe my thought pattern right now at this stage of the game, as well as serve a secondary goal to warn newer players about the pitfalls of latching onto arguments right now because it's kind of circular. Arguments like mafia has done X in the past so anyone who does X is mafia are countered with things like to avoid looking like mafia then they might do the opposite of X to seem town. And then you don't really get anywhere. Good game play and reads have more to do with spooky 6th sense instincts, but not really rooted in anything I can see as being worth it.

Just like in the Fallout NOC, I'm pretty much just going to do the best I can to straight shoot everyone and say how I see things. I learned a lot in that game, and hope to learn a lot in this game. However, right now I am being asked to contribute and give my opinions and those are my thoughts on this game straight up. I just don't know what to think of things. If you have any specific questions for me I will be more than happy to answer anything with my take right now. If not, I will look to chip in my thoughts and ask questions when I have something.

I feel like I've said all I can say on this matter right now, and I do agree with Sam that we need to start looking for lynch targets right now. Who it should be, I don't have an opinion on and even if the arguments are weak we do need to lynch someone. That being said, HD played mafia in the last NOC game I was in and I would hope that he would understand how to conduct himself better as mafia in regards to bandwagoning after being called out for doing it early on last game. It tends to make me think that maybe he is doing the same thing he did last game, but at the same time it could just be an innocent thing about how he plays. I'm fine voting for him now (I won't vote until later because of hammering reasons) but then again I am fine to vote most people off for one reason or another too.
 
UncleSam said:
Spiffy is totally off-base and is doing a really poor job of explaining himself. He basically says 'yes all your play thus far is village but the fact that you think you are village makes me suspicious of you' which has got to be one of the dumbest arguments against someone I've ever heard.
Everyone please notice how UncleSam dismisses my argument by completely misrepresenting it and calling it stupid. I explained exactly why your behavior was scummy to me but instead you try to avoid the issue. The frustrating part about this is that I can't even be certain that the behavior you're showcasing is you as mafia because it could just be how you act in NOC! So I'm going to drop this for now especially since we have much better targets in Haunted Diamond and acidphoenix.

I am only comfortable with lynching one of these two at this point. They both pop in often enough to not be considered inactive but not one of their posts is helpful. If I had to pick between them I would rather lynch Haunted Diamond. He seems to be throwing in excuses about his inactivity here and there which is something he relied on for survival as mafia in the last game. I am less familiar with acidphoenix's playstyle so it's harder for me to distinguish whether his behavior is nooby or scummy.

I'll Unvote for now but I don't know where the votes are falling currently because I'm lazy so I'll refrain from voting for Haunted Diamond at the moment.

As for people I haven't really touched on yet, it seems business as usual for Yeti and Da Letter El, but I'd expect them to play similarly as both village and mafia so I don't have a firm read on either of them. I'd like for Yeti to tell us which of Gale, Haunted Diamond, and acidphoenix she would most like to lynch and why.

Celever seems to be playing completely differently then in his mafia showing in the last NOC. He is a lot less aggressive and he seems to be willing to listen and be convinced by arguments that don't align with his. In the last game he would just pick a target at the beginning of each day and ride that out to the end. He seems a lot more open in this game which is good in my book.

It's hard for me to buy ButteredToast's stance because he knew exactly what he was getting into. The setup of this game was public, so he knew full well that there would be no information role to follow. I struggle to understand why he isn't even trying to scumhunt when he has been through all of this before and knows how NOCs work, and I find it hard to believe that he has NO opinion from the discussions that have occurred. Everyone knows that there isn't ever going to be a concrete, full-proof lynch in an NOC especially on Day 1. It doesn't do us any favors to dwell on that.

I think it's incredibly stupid to push a majority before we hear something worthwhile from Hannahh and PokeguyNXB or they are subbed out. That is something I would like accomplished before we reach deadline. What is the status on the inactive situation The Diabolic Gift?
 

The Diabolic Gift

Banned deucer.
I believe that PokeguyNXB is active but isn't contributing as much as we all would please. PokeguyNXB may be subbed eventually.
Hannahh is inactive the majority of the time on the thread but I know ways to contact hannahh.

Yeti has not made a lynch either but Yeti is extremely active and has been doing tons of contributing.
 

THE_IRON_...KENYAN?

Banned deucer.
Unvote

I know how stupid this looks since I literally just got done voting for Haunted Diamond and gave reasons, but i have a pretty good explanation. Its pretty well known that I think UncleSam is pretty scummy, just from the way he posts and how tryhard it looks and how fake it is. Earlier in the day a few pages ago, I said that I thought the mafia would look genuinely towny today because they really want to find and kill the other mafia team moreso than the villagers mainly because im guessing they could get killed in the crossfire, AND if they nabbed a mafia it would up their village cred, and I still think that 100%.

The thing is, UncleSam disagreed with me on this fact and said it was stupid for a mafia team to try to hunt down the mafia team today, which means if I think he is scummy and i think im right about my theory that the mafia would try to hunt the other mafia today, I cant trust any lynch that UncleSam tries to put on the table and push. I mean, that guy just looks really scummy IMO and im not willing to trust what he has to say.

The only lynch from him I dont trust is the one hes currently on atm. I dont really care if he mentions 3 or 4 other people like Gale because he could be namedropping them in his suspicious persons list to make it seem like hes with us on the fact they are scummy, but not willing to actually go in on it because one of those might be his maf partner, so as to cover his ass if people question it. Which is why I still like Gale as a lynch target.

Vote GaleWingSrock

Im gonna take a shot at leading the lynch today because i dont trust UncleSam enough to go behind any wagon he starts, and a lot of you think the same. I mentioned numerous times why i think Gale is really scummy, and that is filler, early bandwagoning, repeating what people say almost verbatim three times on the same page, and weird ultimatum stuff like "WELL YOULL BE REALLY SORRY WHEN I TURN OUT TO BE VILLAGE" which is something mafia really like to say.
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
TIK it's not fake I tryhard in every game I play I'm sorry that you view actually trying to win as a villager as being scummy because you're 'too cool to care' or whatever.

Changing your vote solely because of me voting for it is really silly if you think about it, though I'm glad you're actively contributing and I think that Gale is the second-best lynch choice for today.

Could you at least answer my questions? Who would you be ok with lynching (ie who would you reasonably see yourself voting for at the end of the day) and what do you want to wait for in terms of contributions from people before finalizing said vote? So you say that Gale is your favorite lynch (or Haunted Diamond is except that I suggested it and 'UncleSam is scummy' despite all evidence to the contrary...), but who is a reasonable lynch? Who would you absolutely not support a lynch on?

I would unvote and vote Gale just to show how stupid TIK's vote change was but that would put Gale at L-2 I think and I don't want to push it that close to majority before the people I called out earlier have posted.

Spiffy's recent post was his first real contribution though you are ignoring a bunch of previous posts I've made and no I did not misrepresent your argument though I did dismiss it because it is exactly as silly as I said it was. You literally said:
Spiffy said:
This has been my main issue with you and you didn't address it in your response to me. You keep having to substantiate to yourself and everyone else that you are so obviously town and that post was what got everything rolling! I guess it was the catalyst for discussion, but not in the way you intended it to be.
That post WAS what got everything rolling, it was intended as I've said MANY times to steer discussion towards myself and DLE rather than noobish players for falling for a stupid trick. Indeed it did come back around full-circle to noobish players, but only because they did something actually scummy (ie bandwagoning) rather than simply falling for a trick. And yes I am completely obviously town, there is no fucking way in hell I would either steer discussion towards myself, consistently contribute to discussion throughout this day, and constantly pick fights with most of the established users in order to generate responses unless I wanted to smoke out all the mafia hiding amongst the idling masses.

The rest of Spiffy's post, however, was more in line with what I'd expect from him as a villager. It is interesting that he would not consider lynching Gale over either of Haunted Diamond or Acidphoenix, and though I can sort of see where he's coming from I think he is neglecting all of Gale's horrible play throughout the day solely because of the fact that Gale is so hard to read. THE_IRON_...KENYAN? what do you think of Spiffy's post and what do you make of him not being willing to vote for Gale, given that you are now voting for him?
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Oh and The Diabolic Gift I'm pretty sure you miscounted the votes on Gale and that he has 3 instead of 4. If so I can safely re-vote him to prove my point that refusing to lynch who I am voting for is a really silly policy (though honestly my vote might stay on Gale the rest of the day since he has objectively made the most scummy mistakes this day).
 
I feel so bad about not being active, I've just had a ton going on this weekend. I'm normally free, but I'm going to read this as soon as I actually have free time ;_; Should be later today or tomorrow.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
aight fam im back let's review

If I was playing Bingo with my notesheet and needed one square relating to Hannahh to win, I would lose. Continued 0 contribution. NOBODY can give a read, and we can't analyze anyone's read, on Hannahh because there have been no posts. speak of the devil as I'm typing there's one...

and oh look, it's the same sort of stalling "I'll make a big post Soon TM!!!" that Haunted Diamond acidphoenix and ButteredToast have done. How is it that we have four people with the same non-contribution posts all saying "I just need more time to make a read, to contribute" when there are only four mafia total? Is this really the four mafia? I would not at ALL be surprised if two mafia were in this group of four users. It's classic noobscum to make A post promising bigger and better things then continually delay and not deliver, while also as HD and AP have done, act super defensive and bandwagon. BT seems to be having an out of body experience wherein he's in another plane of reality and cannot make a single read on a player. He randlynched Gale in the randlynch phase, is ok with lynching HD and was sort of palsy with US and that is all I have for his relationships to other players.

Spiffy coming in and sinking his teeth into UncleSam was weird. That's the sort of play I expect from someone who knows the other person does not share their WC. If this wasn't a non-cop Day One I would expect Spiffy was the village cop and knew Sam was mafia but couldn't say it. I don't think Sam has been under such heavy scrutiny yet Spiffy just sort of tears into him while ignoring a variety of other people. Personally I lean towards Spiffy being one of the mafias and knowing Sam is not on his team.

UncleSam and THE_IRON_...KENYAN? have a really bizarre interaction as well. Sam posts, TIK makes this super aggressive call out and is then lauded as a town read by pretty much everyone who provides a read. Now they have this weird back and forth voting deal again and Sam keeps his read on TIK as progressively more certain as town while TIK continues to be suspicious. This sort of feels like TIK may actually be the one playing off his mafia partner, Sam, not DLE-Sam as he initially pointed out. They set themselves up at odds with each other and if one were to go down the other would not be suspected.. but imo if TIK or US flips mafia, the other should be very strongly scrutinized as the partner.

US has also been continually making activity call outs, almost as if he knows his partner is one of the (thankfully for him, so it's not as obvious he's doing this) idlers and he is trying to pull them into the game. It's a possible play and this angle should be considered. He would be pretty assertive as a teammate to get his partner active and not under the magnifying glass, especially if he wanted attention onto himself because he felt he could better defend his position if suspected than his weaker partner.

Another thing I find odd is suddenly US is like "let's buckle down on a lynch guys" and settles on.. HD? Sam has shown some suspicion and heavy activity prods on HD but then he randomly decides this is the guy to lynch and we should wind down the day. Ending the day prematurely isn't a town move, and yes he acknowledges he wants the idle schmucks to contribute before it ends but I still side eye this play. Is Sam bussing a teammate he can tell 90% of the active game thinks is shady? HD flips mafia and everyone says "good scumhunting US!" when the only hunt Sam did was glancing at who his partner is listed as in his role PM? He seems to also be okay with Gale lynch but I don't know. This doesn't jive 100%.

Cancerous also got a lot of early town reads for a couple posts but yeah has now posted nothing of actual value for a long time. 60 posts back there were some call-outs but nothing came of it that I can tell.

Da Letter El got some of these non-content posts too. They read hollow to me. I don't get the sense there's weight behind these thoughts so much as "gotta post enough nobody gets on my case!"

Celever needs to stop picking petty squabbles. All these little things make it hard to understand Celever's actual relations to the players in the game due to the coloring stuff like that Gale aidsfest adds. I also want to see some stronger opinions out of this one.

I genuinely do not believe there is enough to go on YET between Haunted Diamond and acidphoenix. They are both the same sort of bandwagoned, got defense, made a bunch of short and ultimately useless posts except to make themselves look suspicious. I think we need another day to determine which, if not both, are scum and flesh them out some more. I think they will slip up pretty handily if pressured to talk more and actually contribute some reads, should they be scum.

So at the moment I like the lynch on Gale best. The guy just had so many early moments of meta posts where he tries to look helpful-town but it reeks of scum ploy and he was super defensive then fell into the 'go ahead and lynch me, make that mistake, MAKE MY DAY' nonsense. There's also this weird trend of people abstaining from trying to get a solid read on him (see: DLE and Sam). Are these people on a mafia team who know Gale isn't with them, and figure there are fair odds he actually IS noobtown making a ton of scumplays? When Gale flips town will they say 'told you I couldn't get a read!' and use this noncommittal blather as a defense from inquisition, turning it instead onto those who did insist he was scum?

Who have I not addressed.. oh yes. PokeguyNXB another fellow who has absolutely no input of value so far. Has he even posted in the last 100 pages? Was it anything that stated an opinion on another player? Seriously I want to hear what this guy has to say about the game yet he says nothing.

The Diabolic Gift I don't expect to place a lynch vote until the final lynch for the day is decided upon.
 

Wayan Vistar

formerly Flyhn
Seriously, this game will be my death sentence for NOC... scumhunting's always been my weakpoint, and this game has barely any night actions.... why the hell did i sign up again? Ah, yes, to see how far i've come since I started practicing off site... apparently NOT so much. I need more practice.

Anyway, although i'm useless in the scumhunting department, i'd still like to let you know that i don't believe any of the arguments for lynching people are strong enough for my vote.... but i do think there's at LEAST 1 mafia (2 likely.... 3 if we're lucky) in everyone that's been accused thus far.... but i'm unsure who.... give it more time imo, one of them willl slip eventually.
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
That Yeti post has alarm bells going off in my head.

Firstly there is now a very suspicious connection between her and Haunted Diamond. If HD flips scum then people should absolutely take a long, hard look at Yeti for that post. She tries to obscure this covering of HD and pushing the Gale lynch by lobbing acidphoenix in with him, but she specifically questions how I came to the HD lynch conclusion when I made an entire post about it on this very page. This is classic Yeti mafia play if HD is her partner and I'm now absolutely of the mindset that HD is the best lynch for today.

I also stated quite clearly that I wanted to started winding down the day since discussion was growing stale and there is now no deadline. I felt that sparking one last end-of-day discussion train would be a good way to get things moving both in terms of the discussion as well as the game in general. I also clearly stated that under no circumstances did I want the day to end prior to certain individuals contributing. You also say that my calling out AFKs is indicative that I'm partners with an AFK (as well as TIK and...HD? lol) which is absolutely wrong. Calling out the AFKs and forcing them to post is the only way we will ever get a good read on them, and it's way too easy for mafia to hide behind 'reading and catching up pls hold' fucking forever while the actual villagers pick each others' posts clean with toothpicks and manufacture scum 'evidence' where there is none.

Finally, her reading of me potentially being HD's mafia partner is both laughable as well as screams out 'shit if my partner flips I'd like to at least get something out of it'. Like that more than anything leads me to find your relation to Haunted Diamond incredibly scummy right now.

In short I think I'm more or less decided that Haunted Diamond is the lynch today pending contributions from Da Letter El , Hannahh , PokeguyNXB , Cancerous , and ButteredToast (did I miss anyone?). NO ONE IS TO PUSH THE LYNCH PAST L-3 UNTIL THIS HAPPENS OR I WILL CALL YOUR ASS OUT.

I do want to note, however, that I would be against a Yeti lynch despite this post; Haunted Diamond is a unilaterally better lynch than she is. It's just that her post will be quite illuminating as to her alignment if he flips scum.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Seriously, this game will be my death sentence for NOC... scumhunting's always been my weakpoint, and this game has barely any night actions.... why the hell did i sign up again? Ah, yes, to see how far i've come since I started practicing off site... apparently NOT so much. I need more practice.

Anyway, although i'm useless in the scumhunting department, i'd still like to let you know that i don't believe any of the arguments for lynching people are strong enough for my vote.... but i do think there's at LEAST 1 mafia (2 likely.... 3 if we're lucky) in everyone that's been accused thus far.... but i'm unsure who.... give it more time imo, one of them willl slip eventually.
You and ButteredToast are both useless in the scumhunting department, huh? Wow, isn't that convenient. If you're mafia you get to put in zero effort to trying to think like a villager and fake some reads, if you're village you get to hope the loudest people talking are a. accurate and b. village and carry you to victory.

"in everyone that's been accused" so you mean over half the game has at least one mafia member in it? Ding ding ding we have a winner! No but seriously, there are strong accusations on most of the people in this game. This is not a new insight. Pokeguy you seriously cannot have solely this insight so far. Read the thread and post SOMETHING about what's going on. Any input whatsoever about how people are interacting, or not interacting.

Been waiting for Haunted Diamond to respond. I don't intend to pursuit another lead until then.
My vote stays on him.
This is a useless post. Everyone is waiting on Haunted Diamond because he's formed a band with 4 of the other users in this game called Hannahh and the Idlers and they're on a world tour. You haven't said anything of substance for over 100 posts and I am skeptical you have a good reason for this, now that you conveniently have HD as someone in the spotlight to wait for. Reads on other members, anything of note??

That Yeti post has alarm bells going off in my head.
Oh good, considering nobody else in the game has had a negative thing to say about me except Spiffy thinking my statements were wishy-washy and not reading the post where I said I preferred a Gale lynch of the 3 bandwagoners, and have this entire time.

Firstly there is now a very suspicious connection between her and Haunted Diamond. If HD flips scum then people should absolutely take a long, hard look at Yeti for that post. She tries to obscure this covering of HD and pushing the Gale lynch by lobbing acidphoenix in with him, but she specifically questions how I came to the HD lynch conclusion when I made an entire post about it on this very page. This is classic Yeti mafia play if HD is her partner and I'm now absolutely of the mindset that HD is the best lynch for today.
I'm gonna be honest my eyes were glazing over after trying to record every post made since last night and I figured it was the same logic you could apply to Gale or acidphoenix. My notes for the two are the same except HD has this weird vendetta against Celever which is mutual. If we exclude HD's interactions with Celever as some sort of weird ex-lovers quarreling, they pretty much do the same non-contributions. I have maintained Gale as my preferred lynch due to his meta posts for quite a while now and I intend to stick to that mindset. He looks like a scum trying to pose as a villager. Once in the spotlight he panics and grows overly defensive. Now that it's off him and onto HD he's cooling it down. He also took that weird deal with TIK into the votes but even then he didn't stick with it when called for it.

You also say that my calling out AFKs is indicative that I'm partners with an AFK (as well as TIK and...HD? lol) which is absolutely wrong. Calling out the AFKs and forcing them to post is the only way we will ever get a good read on them, and it's way too easy for mafia to hide behind 'reading and catching up pls hold' fucking forever while the actual villagers pick each others' posts clean with toothpicks and manufacture scum 'evidence' where there is none.
I suggested three possible situations in which you could be a mafia member's partner. Nobody except Spiffy and TIK have gone after you, but everyone seems to ignore what they say about you. Except you. And you always have a defensive post on standby. I mean, I don't doubt you'd be equally as aggressive to assert your Strong Village Leader standpoint as a villager as you would be to defend your townliness as mafia. That makes it difficult to tell WHY you are so defensive and always quick to respond to suspicions. Do you not want the cracks in your armor to be exposed or do you not want herp derp analysis weighing down your town contributions?
And I said as much that I don't want the idlers playing these dumb "omg gotta read, thoughts soon xD" games because that's still 1/4 of the game we have 0 information from. However, your proactiveness COULD be a prod.

Finally, her reading of me potentially being HD's mafia partner is both laughable as well as screams out 'shit if my partner flips I'd like to at least get something out of it'. Like that more than anything leads me to find your relation to Haunted Diamond incredibly scummy right now.
So, exactly what I said about you? If he flips, you want something out of it - having been the one to start the lynch and now looking clean. It's the exact same logic and considering you began the lynch, you have more incentive for this to be the actual relation than me and HD. Though I contend I would be more of a protective partner if I were his buddy, I can also see 100% where you would see his ship is sinking and his defenses of himself are getting him into too much trouble. You regarding HD: activity call-outs and continued suspicion following his bus vote leading to this formal lynch request
HD regarding you: the bus vote
He seems relatively silent, perhaps because he doesn't want to slip speaking about his partner? Or perhaps because he's an idle schmuck. Impossible to tell tbh.

I do want to note, however, that I would be against a Yeti lynch despite this post; Haunted Diamond is a unilaterally better lynch than she is. It's just that her post will be quite illuminating as to her alignment if he flips scum.
Of course you would be. If you're mafia you're gonna be pretty certain I flip village, especially if your scumbuddy is someone I have mentioned. If you're village you've been quick to jump on my case when I speak against you (the instant suspicion after misreading my post then retraction, this now wherein you accuse me of exactly what I accused you of for pretty much the same reasons and motivations) despite most of your reads on me being towny. I don't think you trust your own statements that I'm mafia despite trusting pretty strongly Haunted Diamond is scum and considering posts of any substance and analysis are far and few between by other users, you would be aghast to lynch and see me flip as your fellow town. Either way you have no incentive to see me lynched at this point in time. If you were mafia and disgruntled I was onto you a nightkill would be easier to frame.

I will not at all be surprised to see him flip scum. My reasoning behind putting him and acidphoenix off for another day was they have about the same # of contributions:
acidphoenix on: Celever, DLE (suspicion), Gale (voting), UncleSam (bandwagon)
Haunted Diamond on: Celever (weird mutual lover's spat), DLE, TIK (town read), UncleSam (bandwagon)
And I find it somewhat hard to believe they are BOTH such obvious scum with the same tells. I mean, alright maybe they are and that makes the game super easy for us. But there are people like Celever and DLE who have contributions that make me side-eye them (Celever because of his inane arguments with people and how many fluff posts he makes that don't seem to have actual input, DLE has a bunch of town reads to endear himself to people and that evasiveness on Gale), Cancerous who somehow got town read by a bunch of people then began slacking off on saying anything further, Hannahh/ButteredToast/Pokeguy who are all pretty much blank canvases in terms of useful information about them and their relations to others, Spiffy who subbed in for a non-poster then dug into Sam and has had some odd input, and of course Gale who I CAN see as really confused and poorly-played town but I feel more strongly he is scum. That's a good chunk of other people to only have TWO scum in, if HD and AP are both bad.
Maybe we lucked out that way. I'm gonna assume TDG used an RNG to distribute the roles and didn't select players or craft teams intentionally.

Anyway, I wanted to see some interaction. Only Spiffy and TIK have been on your case so I was interested in how defensive you would play it. As it turns out, you default to trying to flip it all around on me and apply what I said about you, to me.

Not your strongest strat, sugar tits.
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Yeti when you are mafia you, without fail, defend your teammates. You've done this in Everybody Votes, you did it in Lie Cheat and Steal, and you've been doing it for literally years. It's arguably your hardest scumtell.

There is zero connection between me and Haunted Diamond being teammates. He bandwagoned on my lynch and I called him out on it, and I proposed a lynch on him later because in my gut I feel he is more likely to be mafia than Gale, even though Gale has played objectively worse. In a two-mafia game this would be utterly retarded and suicidal play if I were his partner. No amount of towncred would be worth getting your partner lynched in a format like this because A. The other mafia's chances of killing you would also increase and B. You're literally down to your last person. Saying 'Sam suggested HD as the lynch and therefore I think could be his partner' makes no sense, especially because you then go on to suggest not lynching Haunted Diamond. How does this make any sense at all? If you believed that I could be his partner you would agree with the HD lynch, not suggest an alternative option.

I'm not 'flipping points with the same logic' I'm pointing out the obvious flaws in your logic while also making it obvious that you are covering for Haunted Diamond.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I've stated why I favor Gale over HD several times. I've felt there was a strong implication in my posts HD or acidphoenix would be my lynch the next day barring any idiot who goes about hammering the wrong guy. I've never stated I'm not in favor of lynching HD at all, just that he's playing so similarly to other shady players it's hard to tell which is which and I have more confidence in a Gale lynch, personally.

Unfortunately it's true I am too protective of my team. I don't even remember that second game ngl.

That being said, HD is not my partner and I have never implied he should be allowed to live beyond the next day barring some miraculous turnabout in his play.
 

THE_IRON_...KENYAN?

Banned deucer.
Id really like to hear more from Da Letter El , Hannahh , PokeguyNXB , Cancerous , and ButteredToast, but the deadline is tomorrow and who knows when tomorrow is... 12:01? Tomorrow morning? (this would be my guess)

My point is, idk if we even have time to get idle people to give their thoughts about this. I fear that if we dont push a lynch to its maximum level soon we are gonna risk having a no-lynch and nobody wants that. Gale is the scummiest or one of the scummiest by the consensus of the players in this game, and he already has votes on him so we should just go with that one and get this over with soon or face repercussions. We can grill people tomorrow
 
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