CAP 21 - Part 1 - Concept Submissions

[ginganinja]

Double Posting again because I can.

Breaking the Mold

I guess this can work. You still get stuck with the old standard typings, something like Grass/Bug/Poison/Ice/Rock, or maybe something niche like a non sweeper dragon type or something, but I guess it lets people be as creative as they like. We potentially really wont learn anything from the concept, but its got potential for being something like a "fun" process rather than something dedicated for the competitive metagame.

Mysterious Wall

This is ok. The issue I actually have however, is that it looks like we want this mon to be a "surprise" mon, and its got the same issues as to why I'll almost never support a lure mon concept, because if your opponent expects the surprise than there is jack your CAP can do, its just a lump of nothing. I am just skeptical as to how it works.

Zone Coverage

If we make a pokemon that can check half the metagame, then thats not actually decreasing the matchup issue. Case in point, look at Aegislash and the Giratina (joke), test. Sure, they checked half the metagame, but they were all deemed to be unhealthy.

The Status Sponge

This is too situational. No-one would legit bother putting a mon like this on a team and there is little point in making a CAP around a concept that isn't worth putting on a mon.

 

[Mikasa]

Well, let's just try because why not?

Name: Looks like a One Trick Poney, but it isn't.

General Description: A pokemon that has either a move or a ability or a combination of both considered very powerful, but it is both a balanced mon and it's not his only trick.

Justification: If you look at something like Serperior the first thing you will see on the mon is his Contrary + Leaf Storm, and it is basically the only thing it is good for, basically if you are not using Contrary Leaf Storm Serperior is useless on OU, but what if we could make a Mon who can both use one of those combos you basically see only on Other Metagames, but be also able to have sets that are not using those.

Questions To Be Answered:
- Which "OP" combination shoud we choose?
- How to make other sets viable, is it through base stats or a powerful secondary ability?
- Having both an "OP" combination and others sets seems very versatile, how to prevent this mon from becoming too versatile, and therefore broken?

Explanation: There are alot of powerful combinations that no Pokémon has in the game and you only see in OM, examples are -ate ExtremeSpeed, Contrary + Overheat, Draco Meteor or VCreate, No Guard Inferno or Zap Cannon, Scrappy Rapid Spin and so on, but every time a Mon has some of those crazy powerful combinations (look at Serperior or even Talonflame with his priority Brave Bird) it's basically his only niche, I think if we could make a Mon with one of those powerful combinations but also other sets there is alot to learn on how to properly balance powerful parts inside a Pokémon without making the rest of the mon very mediocre.

 

[NumberCruncher]

Well, let's just try because why not?

Name: Looks like a One Trick Poney, but it isn't.

General Description: A pokemon that has either a move or a ability or a combination of both considered very powerful, but it is both a balanced mon and it's not his only trick.

Justification: If you look at something like Serperior the first thing you will see on the mon is his Contrary + Leaf Storm, and it is basically the only thing it is good for, basically if you are not using Contrary Leaf Storm Serperior is useless on OU, but what if we could make a Mon who can both use one of those combos you basically see only on Other Metagames, but be also able to have sets that are not using those.

Questions To Be Answered:
- Which "OP" combination shoud we choose?
- How to make other sets viable, is it through base stats or a powerful secondary ability?
- Having both an "OP" combination and others sets seems very versatile, how to prevent this mon from becoming too versatile, and therefore broken?

Explanation: There are alot of powerful combinations that no Pokémon has in the game and you only see in OM, examples are -ate ExtremeSpeed, Contrary + Overheat, Draco Meteor or VCreate, No Guard Inferno or Zap Cannon, Scrappy Rapid Spin and so on, but every time a Mon has some of those crazy powerful combinations (look at Serperior or even Talonflame with his priority Brave Bird) it's basically his only niche, I think if we could make a Mon with one of those powerful combinations but also other sets there is alot to learn on how to properly balance powerful parts inside a Pokémon without making the rest of the mon very mediocre.

There are plenty of Pokemon that fit this bill. Off the top of my head, Belly Drum+Huge Power on Azumarill and Shell Armor + Calm Mind on Mega Slowbro just to name a few examples. Heck even Thundurus occasionally runs a Nasty Plot set over its brazenly too good Prankster+Thunder Wave set.

 

[Scipio323]

There are plenty of Pokemon that fit this bill. Off the top of my head, Belly Drum+Huge Power on Azumarill and Shell Armor + Calm Mind on Mega Slowbro just to name a few examples. Heck even Thundurus occasionally runs a Nasty Plot set over its brazenly too good Prankster+Thunder Wave set.

I'm not quite sure why you feel that the fact that other Pokemon already fit this description is a reason not to make a CAP on it. The point of the project is not always to carve out new territory, but rather just to learn more about the metagame, and I think this kind of submission would accomplish that goal very well. Moreover, since all three Gen 6 CAPs so far have been a bit underwhelming in terms of viability, I think that taking a starting point that feels OP and balancing from there would do a great job of addressing the issues we've been having with responding to power creep.

 

[NumberCruncher]

"but every time a Mon has some of those crazy powerful combinations (look at Serperior or even Talonflame with his priority Brave Bird) it's basically his only niche"

I'm addressing this. He seems to think this is breaking new ground and that there is something to learn about the metagame from this topic, when really neither are the case.

 

[Delta Nite]

I think the concept should be trimmed down to "make a mon for OU that only OMs have". If I'm not mistaken, Birkal submitted one a few years back called "Inspiration through imitation" or the like that had a similar goal as this. It was a pretty good concept back then, you should look into it. If you do change it, I'll definetely be supporting it.

 

[Valmanway]

Name: Solar Savior

General Description: This CAP is designed to revive and possibly improve the effectiveness of sun teams, regardless of if it's designed to abuse the sun or not

Justification: It's obvious that hail teams are the worst weather based teams by far, but sun sadly isn't too far off, as the only viable Drought user is Mega Charizard Y, which doesn't play well on sun teams due to its lack of ability to hold a Heat Rock, among other reasons. Sure, sun teams certainly had their uses in BW, but that niche was lost almost entirely due to the auto-weather nerf that XY implemented. But despite this, rain and sand teams are still plenty viable right now, which makes one wonder where exactly things went downhill for sun teams. But this CAP could revive a lost playstyle and not only make it viable again, but could also make it a significant threat in the current metagame.

Questions To Be Answered:

-What exactly are sun teams lacking to make them stand out right now?
-How will this CAP function on sun teams? Will it directly abuse the sun to sweep/wall teams, or will it just beat the Pokemon that threaten sun teams?
-Are sun-based moves/abilities too gimmicky to work out in practice?
-How well can this CAP perform when in a weather that isn't sun? When there isn't any weather at all?
-How will opposing weather teams adapt to this CAP?

Explanation: Sun hasn't been relevant since BW, and it's a shame that a whole team archetype just died off like that. It's especially a shame considering the positive and unique benefits that sun teams can provide, such as cutting the power of Water-type moves in half, powering up Fire-type moves, making Growth raise BOTH offensive stats by 2 stages, Synthesis healing 2/3 of the user's health, and so forth. While these seem like underwhelming qualities compared to the flaws and weaknesses that curse sun teams, they might only seem that way because of the lack of this CAP, as there are no truly viable sun teams (at least none that I'm aware of) out there to show off the full potential of the sun. But if this CAP were to be successful, then sun teams could very well be the relevant force that it was in BW. I feel that this CAP will give us a better perspective on sun, both the pros and cons, which is something that no other CAP has touched upon.

 

[EternalSnowman]

Name: Mixed Sweeper

General Description: A pokemon that is able to boost both Physical and Special offenses to succeed in sweeping teams.

Justification: Since the beginning of Gen. 6 we have seen very little true mixed sweeping. In fact, the last instance of a viable mixed sweeper was Venusaur in Gen. 5. For those people who remember Venusaur, it abused the eternal sunshine to be able to use Chlorophyll. It also had access to Solarbeam and Growth. The latter is what made it a very successful mixed sweeper, as it gave +2 to both Atk and SpAtk. With the loss of eternal weathers, Venusaur disappeared, or rather changed to being our resident fatmon. As of the start of Gen.6, very little has been seen from mixed sweeping, with the closest being Work Up Pidgeot and Hydreigon, both of which have low viability in OU. CAP can touch on the ability to make a mixed sweeper, because while we have made a mon with both Physical and Special threats, we have yet to make one that has a viable mixed sweeping (not wallbreaking) set.

Questions:

-What will stop CAP from running both a Physical and Special threat versus a Mixed one?
-What makes the difference between a sweeper and a wallbreaker? How do we make it a sweeper?
-Should Growth/Work Up be involved or should it run a double boosting set?
-Can a mixed sweeper work efficiently? Will it just be outclassed by mons that are able to boost more efficiently?

Explanation: Overall, the best ways to tackle this would be using Growth or Work Up. I feel that if we give it real boosting moves, then it can easily change its sets to be purely physical or special. Venusaur was able to pull off a mixed sweeping set due to the speed boost from Chlorophyll, so we have tackle the speed issue. Do we give the CAP a speed boosting move like Agility or do we patch it up with a speedboosting ability? I honestly think that giving CAP high natural speed would solve this issue. I envision a CAP with medium bulk and average offenses that is relatively fast. It requires boosts on both sides to get past walls or do any damage, and important coverage comes from both sides, meaning it is impossible to run only a Physical or Special set due to lack of coverage from one side. There should not be too many options to pick from and it should be running a one-set with some options for coverage.

 

[Mova]

Mixed Sweeper

This concept seems too specific in regards to what you want it to do, and Pokemon can have up to only four move slots, which means that the mixed sweeper could only run a mixed boosting move, two special attacks, and one physical attack, assuming the Pokemon's Special Attack was higher. If Attack was higher, utilize two physical attacks and one special attack. Not much we can learn from this one.

That, and most sweepers prefer to maximize the Effort Values of their primary offensive stat and Speed, while the rest are put in one of the defenses. This especially applies to special attackers, since they always want to use Attack as a dump stat.

 

[ginganinja]

This CAP is designed to revive and possibly improve the effectiveness of sun teams, regardless of if it's designed to abuse the sun or not

This is legitimately Malaconda Gen 6, and since weather got nerfed so hard this generation, I think the chances of improving sun to make it viable is low. Its more likely we undercut the concept and don't achieve it, or overcut it and make it OP, rather than getting a successful CAP out of it.

Name: Mixed Sweeper

One thing you will notice about mixed sweepers is that by and large, they don't use boosting moves, it removes a coverage move and generally affects an EV spread. Look at Hydreigon (or for a more relevant OU example), Kyurem-B. These pokemon are wallbreakers, they don't need any extra damage to nuke the enemy team, when they can 2KO most walls. Sure, maybe a speed boosting move would be appreciated, but by and large they get around with sheer power. What YOUR concept wants to achieve, is make a Growth/Work Up mon, both moves being gimmicky at best, and Growth relying on sunlight to be not shitty. At the end of the day, there is no POINT giving a mixed sweeper a boosting move that boosts its offensive stats - it already nukes through walls, so why does it need more power. IO guess you could make a better version of Agility Lucario (speed boosting move + nice mixed offences), but your concept is currently limiting. I don't think we can make a CAP that fits your criteria AND be good in OU, purely because if it needs Work Up to break past walls, then its in trouble, since boosting is difficult in a fast paced meta full of priority. Plus, we just did a boosting sweeper.

 

[Ignus]

Name: Don't turn around.

General Description: A Pokemon that effectively punishes the use of U-turn and Volt Switch.

Justification: U-turn has always been one of those moves that's infuriatingly turn efficient - free damage and switch that happens after an opponents switch, giving you an immediate momentum advantage in almost every situation it's used. On top of this, both Volt Switch and U-Turn have been given to top tier offensive threats ranging from Talonflame to Landorus-T to Manectric. It's strong to the point where the name Volt-Turn has sprung up as a composition literally based around two moves. The time has come to shoot down the metaphorical holy grail of turn efficiency.

Questions to be Answered:

• What makes U-Turn so strong in the first place?
• What situations is U-Turn strongest in? What about Weakest?
• Are there Pokemon out there that already handle the move in some way, shape or form?
• What aspects do effective U-Turners share that can be capitalized on?
• What's the most reliable way to handle a bluffed U-Turn?

Explanation: U-Turn/Volt Switch has historically been a concept tackled by CAP from the attacking end rather then the receiving, but honestly deserves more attention from the latter. A sizeable portion of the OU metagame has access to the moves, and understanding the consequences of an opponent using them in the context of a battle is an extremely important for anyone who wants to get better at the game. The goal of this concept is to provide the participants with an idea of how to handle the move even outside of CAP, and to explore the idea of turn efficiency with one of the best examples possible. Not only that, but I'm kind of excited to see what CAP would come up with for the concept. Starting a discussion on "where is U-Turn weakest?" could teach us some seriously valuable things about the metagame.

 

[ginganinja]

You pretty much don't punish U-Turn / VS short of making a mon that takes bullshit damage from both and has like, Rocky Helmet and Rough Skin. See, if you want to beat U-Turn, you need to switch CAP into the U-Turn....as the mon promptly switches out, and brings in a counter. Unless you have any smashing ideas as to how to make that a loss for out opponents, such a concept will never ever work.

 

[Zepkhan]

To punish the mon switching in, you could use Assurance while Spikes/SR is in play... but that would be poll-jumping ;)

 

[666lumberjack]

You pretty much don't punish U-Turn / VS short of making a mon that takes bullshit damage from both and has like, Rocky Helmet and Rough Skin. See, if you want to beat U-Turn, you need to switch CAP into the U-Turn....as the mon promptly switches out, and brings in a counter. Unless you have any smashing ideas as to how to make that a loss for out opponents, such a concept will never ever work.

Perhaps a slow wallbreaker with Rattled? Getting +1 speed from switching into the U-turn is pretty much the only way I can think of to actually punish it, especially on a mon that's normally checked by faster offensive pokemon and doesn't have a lot of defensive answers. It's still a really telegraphed idea though, so I don't think it justifiably fits the criteria for a good concept.

 

[Scipio323]

Given that DougJustDoug has just given the Mega Cap an OK, would it be alright for me to update and repost my Patient Mega concept? I'd like to rework it to better conform to the standards that Doug emphasized, and it should be more visible now that it's not illegal.

 

[Ignus]

Echoing what others have been saying when it comes to contact abilities generally working to help handle U-turn - Including but not limited to iron barbs, flame body, static, etc. and that entry hazards generally punish strategies that heavily rely on switching like U-Turn.
That said, It'd be pretty boring if the concept had to just follow such a narrow path by itself, so I want to talk about where the concept really starts to shine - and that's when it comes to "faking" a U-turn. Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

You have a Heatran out against an enemy Landorus-T. It's currently pretty late in to the game at this point, so the opponent only has 3 pokemon left: Landy, Mega-Venusaur, and a Talonflame. You're in a similar situation, with your Heatran, CAP, and a Rotom-W.

Right now, Lando easily outspeeds your Heatran as it's Scarfed - which means generally, your Heatran is going to be forced to switch out in this situation, because you can't really sac it at this point when it handles two of the opponents remaining pokemon by itself - which means you have a choice: Do you switch to CAP, or Rotom, or stay with Heatran? Rotom-W can handle every attacking move Landorus-T can dish out in this situation, but taking chip damage from U-turn means that it turns in to a battle you'll slowly lose from the repeated switches. So what if we stay in? if Landorus U-turns, now they're forced in to a matchup of either Mega-Venu vs Heatran or Talonflame vs Heatran. This is good for you. But we can't really risk taking an earthquake from Landorus, as we want to keep our Heatran alive for as long as physically possible. So staying in isn't really an option. That means you have one "right" option: switching to CAP. Switching to CAP means you don't lose momentum if the opponent U-Turns, and if they don't, you (hopefully) come out on top in that situation too. You might take a sizable chunk from Earthquake, but now with CAP on the field the opponent has to switch out Landorus-T themselves; thus losing the momentum they would've gotten from using U-Turn against another pokemon.

So to reiterate, here's the new "paths" that CAP opens up in this situation.

• Heatran switches out to CAP. Landorus uses U-turn. Landorus takes more damage/is burned/is punished by CAP. Opponent loses the damage trade.
• Heatran switches out to CAP. Landorus uses Earthquake/other coverage move. Landorus is forced out for whatever reason by CAP, losing momentum and at best, only slightly winning the damage trade.

Countering U-turn isn't just as simple as making it the worst possible option for the opponent. Countering U-turn is about taking the opponents other options and neutralizing them. We're countering the "choice" of U-turn, which allows us to make some sneaky predictions as a player as the fight progresses.

Let's continue with that example to the next stage of prediction. Your opponent, at this point, knows both using U-turn and using Earthquake are mediocre options against the impending CAP switch. They choose the lesser of the two evils and go for some earthquake chip damage before doing the switch. This is close to "forcing" the opponent in to a situation where they don't use U-turn. Suddenly, a third option, one we had before disregarded, has shown up. We can now switch to Rotom. If we know the opponent is going to try to chip CAP, we can switch to Rotom on the earthquake and steal the rug from the opponents feet, allowing us three or four free attacks on the opponent (Rotom uses hydro-pump on switch to Venu, then volt switch to Heatran, Heatran attacks on switch opponents switch to lando) with little to no resistance.

This is the aim of countering U-turn. We're trying to put the opponent into a situation where they have to choose between the metaphorical rock and hard place of U-Turning. This why the concept gets interesting, not because we just dick around and say "Alright, Iron Barbs on a ground type".

 

[ginganinja]

Replace Landorus-T with a Rotom-W (which has a switch move in Volt Switch, and your entire scenario falls flat. Or keep Landorus-T and have the scenario fall flat if said CAP cannot safely switch into Landorus-T. This is not "countering" U-Turn, this is countering users of U-Turn / Volt Switch. Like, your scenario above is a manufactured one in your favour, because the CAP is "Pokemon X", its legitimately a Fire/Water/Grass/Dragon/Psychic/Dark etc mon. I know what you are trying to explain, but I don't see it working. I'll explain:

You forgot scenario #2. Landorus uses U-Turn, you switch to CAP, tank the hit, hurt Landorus-T, and then Venusaur switches in, threatening Heatran with Earthquake, and both CAP and Rotom-W with Giga Drain. GG you lose, because you cannot prove to me, that this CAP is not weak to Grass moves.

Do you see the issue now? Its a manufactured a situation where you don't lose because you already built an imaginary pokemon with infinite stats/movepool/typing/ability options to hard counter the three mons in your scenario. The biggest punisher of U-Turn / Volt Switch in the game, is potentially Stealth Rock, because if this scenario assumes that SR is up, then there is no U-Turn spam between Landorus-T and Talonflame. The CAP isn't winning by Punishing U-Turn, its winning the scenario because it hard counters Landorus and Mega Venusaur.

 

[Ignus]

You're completely right that this example sucks. It's not perfect, assumes a lot, and focuses pretty heavily on countering users of the move over the move itself. That said, I don't think that an approach of "countering U-Turners" is particularly unfeasible for the concept. For example, 6 of the 7 Pokemon in OU that get Volt Switch are an electric type, and the 7th is mew, who doesn't run it or could run U-turn. Dump some physical bulk on CAP and an electric immunity and suddenly you can generally handle U-Turners and Volt Switchers. Sure, weaknesses and coverage moves still exist, "beating" U-Turners isn't nearly this simple, and being able to handle every potential user of the moves may not be possible or even a good idea. But I'd argue that trying to counter the move by itself is relatively pointless in the context of actual battles.

Furthermore, saying "we don't know CAP isn't weak to / isn't threatened by grass" isn't a valid argument because we can debate back and forth all day on what it's typing is or isn't and go nowhere. If it's not valid to say CAP can beat Venu, then it's just as invalid to say that it can't.

Countering U-turn users is an inherent part to countering U-turn. CAP doesn't need infinite stats to generally beat U-turn/VS users because it handles approximately a third of them just by being immune to electric. While we might not be able to beat the other two thirds utterly with the rest of the process, I think it's perfectly reasonable to try. Even if we end up leaving 3-4 U-turners that can beat us, that doesn't mean the concept is a failure or "bad", either. We'd have to dig deeper in to the concept to find out if that's the case and honestly, The submission thread probably isn't the place to do that.

Would it make sense to change the wording so that it focuses better on countering the users of the move, instead? I'm worried my Concept might not be well written enough to make this clear.

 

[ginganinja]

Furthermore, saying "we don't know CAP isn't weak to / isn't threatened by grass" isn't a valid argument because we can debate back and forth all day on what it's typing is or isn't and go nowhere. If it's not valid to say CAP can beat Venu, then it's just as invalid to say that it can't.

That's my POINT. You arbitrarily assumed this CAP hard countered what was left, so I arbitrarily assumed that it didn't. Hence why that example was pointless. I digress though.

Countering U-turn users is an inherent part to countering U-turn. CAP doesn't need infinite stats to generally beat U-turn/VS users because it handles approximately a third of them just by being immune to electric.

O.k so now here you have another issue, because now if this CAP doesn't get an electric immunity (which is possible because its community voting), then its a failed concept. Even if the community does end up voting for an electric immunity, you legitimately poll jumped / railroading the concept a certain way. Lets go even further though. Lets say, that you successfully make a pokemon that hard counters Scizor and Rotom-W. You didn't "counter" U-Turn, you just countered two OU pokemon that just happen to have U-Turn on a moveset. If you countered U-Turn, I shouldn't be able to find a pokemon that could handle this CAP. It means that this CAP wins against Scizor, Lando, Talonflame, Celebi, Rotom-W and who knows what else. It means that this CAP is not set up fodder by any means, because if I have to switch into U-Turn but am vulnerable to like, <insert powerful sweeper/wallbreaker here>, then I'm not doing my job correctly, because U-Turn is still doing what its best at, getting an advantageous switch.

With all that said tho hey, lets look at what we want from this CAP. We want it to be bulky, we want it to have an electric immunity, and we want it to have some special ability that triggers on contact moves, and an ability to have the option of running Rocky Helmet as an item. Ideally, it would be nice for it to have access to Stealth Rock as well. Lets think about what this CAP would look like...

 

[EternalSnowman]

Name: Don't turn around.

General Description: A Pokemon that effectively punishes the use of U-turn and Volt Switch.

Justification: U-turn has always been one of those moves that's infuriatingly turn efficient - free damage and switch that happens after an opponents switch, giving you an immediate momentum advantage in almost every situation it's used. On top of this, both Volt Switch and U-Turn have been given to top tier offensive threats ranging from Talonflame to Landorus-T to Manectric. It's strong to the point where the name Volt-Turn has sprung up as a composition literally based around two moves. The time has come to shoot down the metaphorical holy grail of turn efficiency.

Questions to be Answered:

• What makes U-Turn so strong in the first place?
• What situations is U-Turn strongest in? What about Weakest?
• Are there Pokemon out there that already handle the move in some way, shape or form?
• What aspects do effective U-Turners share that can be capitalized on?
• What's the most reliable way to handle a bluffed U-Turn?

Explanation: U-Turn/Volt Switch has historically been a concept tackled by CAP from the attacking end rather then the receiving, but honestly deserves more attention from the latter. A sizeable portion of the OU metagame has access to the moves, and understanding the consequences of an opponent using them in the context of a battle is an extremely important for anyone who wants to get better at the game. The goal of this concept is to provide the participants with an idea of how to handle the move even outside of CAP, and to explore the idea of turn efficiency with one of the best examples possible. Not only that, but I'm kind of excited to see what CAP would come up with for the concept. Starting a discussion on "where is U-Turn weakest?" could teach us some seriously valuable things about the metagame.

A huge problem with this concept in general and how ginganinja and you guys are debating how you are to make this CAP is that ginganinja is completely correct, either you would be recreating a Garchomp which would be no fun or you are just creating a huge blanket check to the entire metagame. You are saying that if the user of U-Turn successfully switches out the consequent mon will be punished... Wouldn't that just be asking the mon to be a giant blanket check? As proven Giritina-O and Aegislash, I don't think that blanket checks help the meta, they just make it over centralizing. There is absolutely no reason to create a mon like this nor would it really be possible realistic.

 

[Ignus]

Alright. There suddenly seems to be a lot of resistance to some really strange stuff for this concept. I'm going to try to answer all the concerns to the best of my ability.

1. If the community doesn't vote for an electric immunity, we fail the concept.
This is just plain false. While an electric immunity is extremely useful on the CAP, it can also bait us in to some easy KOs for the opponent. There's a reason Manectric runs HP ice, and its exactly for something like Garchomp coming in on the Volt Switch. Having an electric immunity could mean we sacrifice resistance to coverage moves which could lead us into a situation where getting baited is much more likely. As long as we can successfully punish the opponent for using the move, the concept is a success. Would an electric immunity be helpful? Hell yes. Is it required? Maybe not. We could probably create an entirely separate thread on "how to punish U-turners" but I'm trying my best to not spam the submission thread with my concept. (Sorry!)

Arguing that the community won't vote for something that isn't good for the project doesn't make much sense, either. If people wanted to make a terrible CAP, we would probably not see nearly the amount of participation that we do. I'd be more inclined to not trust them with a more vague and ethereal concept then "MAKE U-TURN BAD".

2. Countering U-turn is impossible, because you have to check everything that could potentially switch in to you.
This makes complete sense, but is sort of missing the point of the concept. Of course we can't change the fact that U-turns biggest advantage is that it gets a free switch. But the truth is we should be attacking U-turn from it's weakest points, not its strongest. The way you get through a fence is by hopping over it, not by punching it until your hands bleed or the fence breaks. All we have to do is force the opponent in to a mindset that says "U-turn isn't my best option right now" and the concept is a success. Even if we just get the opponent to switch normally rather than u-turn means that CAP did its job.
Imagine if CAP had flame body for a moment. Suddenly, every time the opponent U-turns, they risk a scald burn's chances of losing a pokemon to status. Suddenly, U-turn doesn't look like nearly the boon it once did. Sure, CAP may be forced out on the turn immediately after it switched in, but racking up damage/status/whatever else can take a serious toll on the opponents decision making.

3. Blocking every U-turner is super OP
Probably. But we don't need to. Remember, as long as we condition the opponent in to thinking "U-turn isn't the best choice right now" CAP is a success. So while we might be able to beat Scizor, we might not be able to handle Rotom-W. If we can't handle Rotom straight up, all we have to do is trick it into using some move that isn't Volt Switch to hit CAP and play accordingly. Limiting the opponents choices makes prediction much, much easier and leads to winning games. Just as long as we make the choice of U-turn so unattractive that the opponent chooses other options, the concept works.

 

[ginganinja]

That said, I don't think that an approach of "countering U-Turners" is particularly unfeasible for the concept. For example, 6 of the 7 Pokemon in OU that get Volt Switch are an electric type, and the 7th is mew, who doesn't run it or could run U-turn. Dump some physical bulk on CAP and an electric immunity and suddenly you can generally handle U-Turners and Volt Switchers.

While an electric immunity is extremely useful on the CAP, it can also bait us in to some easy KOs for the opponent. There's a reason Manectric runs HP ice, and its exactly for something like Garchomp coming in on the Volt Switch. Having an electric immunity could mean we sacrifice resistance to coverage moves which could lead us into a situation where getting baited is much more likely.

Remember, as long as we condition the opponent in to thinking "U-turn isn't the best choice right now" CAP is a success. So while we might be able to beat Scizor, we might not be able to handle Rotom-W.

So we went from "Electric Immunity is the way to go", to "Electric Immunity is might be bad because it opens is up to random coverage moves from some specific Volt Switchers", to "but if we don't beat every U-Turner / Volt Switcher its ok".

Like I'm...just confused as to exactly where you keep taking this. I still think Garchomp is pretty much the best possible example of an anti volt turn mon, after all, it hit every single one of your criteria that you picked out for this CAP. You on the other hand, claim that because Garchomp gets hit by HP Ice from Mega Manectric, its less effective, but then go on to say that a) we don't need to beat every Volt Turn user, and b) so long as we make sure the opponent is discouraged from using Volt Turn, then its a successful concept. Just from what you are saying, it looks like Garchomp would be your successful CAP, because it (arguably) discourages Volt Turn, even though it doesn't beat every Volt Turn user.

That said, lets fast forward the concept. Lets say that that we don't go with an electric immunity (for the sake of the argument). This means that, according to your statistical data, all 7 pokemon in OU that run Volt Switch, still can, and this CAP does 0 to discourage that. Flame Body isn't going to trigger on this, or Rough Skin, you just...lose to them. Looks awkward considering the defining description of your concept it "punish U-Turn and Volt Switch". That said, hey, maybe you could handle U-Turn, although if you use Flame Body, then having a typing that can wall Talonflame is essential, or sorting out a typing thats less vulnerable to coverage and...the list just starts to expand.

Just as long as we make the choice of U-turn so unattractive that the opponent chooses other options, the concept works.

We have this in OU. Its called Garchomp. Its a good mon, runs some good sets, and isn't overwhelmingly powerful. What can we learn from a CAP with this concept that Garchomp couldn't already tell us?

 

[P01NT0N3X]

• Name - Time to tip the scales!
  
• Description - A pokemon that makes use of its weight to take advantage of the situation
  
• Justification- According to the metagame, weight is an overlooked factor when tackling a team head on. Normally, a lot of pokemon fit the bill of
  heavy and strong" but only a few are actually a force to be reckoned with. Moves like grass knot, heavy slam, heat crash, and low kick all rely on whether the defending or attacking pokemon weights a lot or doesn't making relatively good counters to these "heavy sweepers". In the metagame, people rely on weight based moves to remove threats such as ditto matches (e.g. Bisharp would learn Low kick [For frick sake I meant to write low kick not grass knot T_T] just to remove other bisharps standing in it's way) but other than the situational matchup as stated before, if this pokemon has control over it's size/weight, then it might be a force to reckon.
• Questions To Be Answered
  -Does weight matter in the metagame?
  -How can we take advantage of a pokemon's weight and/or size?
  -If we can control this variable of weight, can we take advantage of it well enough for it to be noticeable?
  -Any other way we can apply weight to the current metagame?
  -Would there be any disadvantages to monopolizing weights?
  
• Explanation - From what I can gather, moves that deal with weight include grass knot, low kick, heavy slam, heat crash, and autotomize. Basically all of these moves (except autotomize) deal damage based on how how heavy the target is (grass knot and low kick) or how heavy the user is (heavy slam and heat crash), and autotomize raises the users speed by two stages and reduces the user's weight by 100 kg I believe. The ability Heavy Metal (#bestrockofalltime) doubles the pokemon's weight, by making use of this, we can create certain checks to heavy pokemon and light pokemon, while still being able to control certain aspects of the battle, such as how much damage does this specific move deal with at this moment in the match. Edit: I realize I missed light metal also, oh well
  
  erm, thank you for listening to my ranting.

 

[Bull Of Heaven]

At first glance, I don't see anything that could be done with this other than building an entire mon around Heavy Slam/Heat Crash, which I can't imagine would be very interesting. Building around an opponent's Low Kick/Grass Knot is beyond gimmicky and situational, and weight-altering moves/abilities only matter in relation to those few moves that are affected by weight. Do you have any clearer ideas as to how this concept could work?

Edit: Also, I think you meant that Bisharp can run Low Kick. There's no way the Grass Knot example is true.

 

[ginganinja]

IDK man, I think alexwolf used to run Grass Knot Bisharp.