Pinsir

Quite Quiet

why fall in love when you can fall asleep
is a Site Content Manageris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
TFP Leader


[OVERVIEW]
With access to Mold Breaker and Swords Dance, Pinsir is one of few setup sweepers that can get past Quagsire in NU. Pinsir's Bug typing allows it to hit many of the Psychic- and Dark-types in the tier very hard. While its typing doesn't offer many resistances, Pinsir's resistances to Fighting and Ground, along with its decent bulk, give it a fairly easy time setting up. Pinsir also has a pretty wide offensive movepool that allows it to adapt to fit its team. Access to Stealth Rock alongside Mold Breaker makes Pinsir one of the few Stealth Rock setters that can set up Stealth Rock on Xatu. However, Pinsir faces competition from Scyther as a setup sweeper, which has a useful secondary typing, higher Speed, and better overall bulk than Pinsir, especially with Eviolite equipped.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge / Quick Attack
item: Life Orb
ability: Mold Breaker / Moxie
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Swords Dance boosts Pinsir's Attack to extremely high levels, allowing it to easily break down common walls. X-Scissor is fairly powerful with STAB and gives good neutral coverage. Earthquake hits the Poison-, Fire-, and Steel-types that resist X-Scissor, such as Garbodor, Magmortar, and Mawile. Stone Edge rounds off the coverage by hitting Flying-types such as Mantine, Pelipper, Archeops, and Swellow hard, which the other two moves cannot do. Quick Attack is an option over Stone Edge to give Pinsir some very useful priority to work around its less-than-stellar Speed.

Set Details
========
EVs are put into Attack and Speed with an Adamant nature to get as much power as possible. A Jolly nature can be used to outspeed Pokemon such as Mesprit, Adamant Sawk, and Adamant Kangaskhan. Life Orb maximizes Pinsir's damage output. However, Lum Berry is an option that allows Pinsir to set up on Pokemon such as Lanturn and Miltank more easily. Mold Breaker is used to get around common stops to setup sweepers such as Quagsire, as well as allowing Earthquake to hit Weezing and other Pokemon with Levitate. Moxie can be used if Quick Attack is run to make Pinsir's sweep very hard to stop after a few KOs.

Usage Tips
========
The goal is to set up Swords Dance and break the opponent's walls. Try to set up Swords Dance on Pokemon that Pinsir forces out, most notably Psychic-types such as Musharna and Claydol, as Pinsir does not have good enough bulk to take hits as it sets up. Pinsir should act more as a wallbreaker than a late-game sweeper, but Moxie can allow Pinsir to sweep late-game as well. However, with Moxie Pinsir can't break Quagsire, so if Pinsir has Moxie over Mold Breaker, Quagsire needs to be removed before Pinsir can effectively set up.

Team Options
========
Pinsir appreciates Rock-types such as Rhydon and Regirock, which can deal with the Flying-types that Pinsir is troubled by. Pinsir can beat the Grass-types they are troubled by in return. Stealth Rock and Spikes support from Pokemon such as Rhydon, Regirock, Garbodor, and Ferroseed is very useful, as without entry hazards Pinsir misses out on some important KOs. Some notable examples include a very high chance of OHKOing Klinklang after a layer of Spikes with Life Orb and OHKOing Rhydon after Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes at +2 with an Adamant nature and Life Orb. Other good partners are slow pivots such as Lanturn, Musharna, and defensive Mawile, which can safely bring in Pinsir without it taking any damage. Late-game cleaners such as Tauros and Scyther appreciate Pinsir dealing with the walls that otherwise stop them. They can in return deal with the faster Pokemon that Pinsir has to rely on Quick Attack to beat. Scyther especially benefits from Pinsir breaking down the Rock- and Steel-types Scyther otherwise can't touch, but the shared weaknesses are a big downside to using them together. Hazard removal from a Pokemon such as Prinplup or Claydol is appreciated, as Pinsir takes damage from all entry hazards and has trouble setting up at low health. It is also very easily worn down by entry hazard damage combined with Life Orb recoil. If Pinsir is running Moxie, a Grass-type such as Lilligant, Cacturne, or Shiftry is very helpful to deal with Quagsire, as Quagsire otherwise walls Moxie variants completely.

[SET]
name: Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Earthquake / Knock Off
move 4: Toxic / Rock Tomb
item: Focus Sash
ability: Mold Breaker
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Stealth Rock allows Pinsir to be a very reliable Stealth Rock setter, as it doesn't have to worry about Xatu's Magic Bounce thanks to Mold Breaker. X-Scissor deals good damage to Psychic- and Dark-types such as Mesprit, Musharna, Liepard, and Shiftry. Earthquake lets Pinsir do significant damage to threats such as Garbodor, Mawile, and Magmortar, while Knock Off lets Pinsir cripple threats such as Rhydon and Regirock. Toxic discourages the opponent from setting up on Pinsir, and it punishes those that do. Rock Tomb is another way to punish the opponent if they try to set up and to get a better matchup against faster Pokemon such as Archeops, Pyroar, and Swellow.

Set Details
========
Maximum Speed EVs and a Jolly nature are used to outspeed as much as possible, including Mesprit, Adamant Sawk, and Samurott. The remaining EVs are put into Attack to boost Pinsir's damage output. Mold Breaker is used to ignore Xatu's Magic Bounce. Focus Sash allows Pinsir to survive any attack in order to more reliably set up Stealth Rock.

Usage Tips
========
Play carefully around Taunt users, as they are the only thing that can stop Pinsir from setting up Stealth Rock. Pinsir's task is to support the team, so attacking just for damage should be secondary to supporting. If Pinsir's Focus Sash isn't broken when it has set up Stealth Rock, it can be useful to save Pinsir to use as an emergency check for something, although it shouldn't be the main concern.

Team Options
========
Pokemon that can prevent or discourage Stealth Rock from being removed, such as Ghost-types and Pawniard, are very good partners, as Pinsir is unlikely to get more than one or two chances to set them up. Frail offensive Pokemon that benefit from a Pokemon's Sturdy or Focus Sash being broken, such as Lilligant, Swellow, Pyroar, and Jynx, appreciate how reliable Pinsir is at setting up Stealth Rock.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Pinsir can use Choice Band and four attacks for a lot of initial power, but it's a set mostly done better by Sawk, which gets a better STAB attack and more coverage moves. Similarly, Choice Scarf is an option with Moxie, but the low initial power and the lack of a damage-boosting item makes it somewhat hard to get anything done. Close Combat is mostly outclassed by Earthquake, as Pokemon that resists Close Combat usually resist X-Scissor as well, but it does hit a few Pokemon harder than Earthquake however;for example, it OHKOes both Rhydon and Regirock at +2, as well as hitting Ferroseed and Miltank super effectively. A Substitute + Focus Punch set can be used, but it shares a lot of problems with Close Combat and should rarely be considered. The power boost does make it situationally useful, however.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Flying-types**: Flying-types such as Archeops, Scyther, and Swellow are pretty big trouble for Pinsir. They resist Pinsir's STAB attacks and in most cases outspeed Pinsir, easily taking it out with their STAB moves. They do have to watch out for Stone Edge or Rock Tomb, however, and Quick Attack after a couple of boosts can get past them as well.

**Faster Pokemon**: Due to Pinsir's average bulk and typing, most Pokemon that outspeed and hit Pinsir at least neutrally can deal a lot of damage to it; some examples are Electivire, Haunter, Scyther, and Swellow. Frailer Pokemon such as Pyroar and Haunter can't really switch into it, though.

**Physically Bulky Pokemon**: Some physically defensive Pokemon, such as Mega Audino, Granbull, and Regirock, can survive even a boosted attack from Pinsir and then neutralize it, either by attacking or with Thunder Wave. Moxie variants are also stopped cold by Weezing and Quagsire, as it has no way to get past either of them.
 
Last edited:

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
I don't get what Knock Off does for Pinsir on the SD set. Due to Mold Breaker Earthquake already hitting the majority of Ghosts, it doesn't add useful coverage, and it doesn't beat any of Pinsir's counters. Removing Lefties is fine and dandy if Pinsir is capable of outlasting its counters, but its hazard weakness, lack of bulk + resists, and mediocre Speed means it struggles to do even that. Quick Attack is more slashworthy than Knock Off since it actually helps Pinsir sweep after SD by allowing Pinsir to outpace faster mons as well as priority like Gale Wings Acro and Sucker Punch.

Moxie should be slashed after Mold Breaker on the SD set; steamrolling potential is always nice, especially when paired with priority.

Yo put Focus Sash on the SR set. Also Rock Tomb should be mentioned; it allows Pinsir to avoid mindgames from the likes of lead Cheops and gain the lead advantage, it can allow Pinsir to beat things like Pyroar 1v1, plus it is also a form of setup deterrent for stuff like Shell Smashers (though it's ineffective against Clear Body Klinklang). The slowing effect is just very useful for a Sash lead in general and lets Pinsir (or its teammates) a lot of room to work around.
 
Last edited:

Quite Quiet

why fall in love when you can fall asleep
is a Site Content Manageris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
TFP Leader
Fine I'll remove Knock Off :(

And for the rest: okay. my focus sash got lost when cp'ing anyway



I guess it's okay enough to go to QC, but it's still missing some things...
 

shiloh

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Tiering Lead

[OVERVIEW]

+ Mold Breaker SD is cool
+ Bug-typing + Speed can beat most Psychic-types
+ Okay bulk makes setting up easy
+ Setting up Rocks on Xatu is also cool
- Only useful resist is Fighting :(
- Pretty much Sawk with different stab
- STAB not incredibly useful offensively
- Flying-types :(
Is its offensive movepool good enough to mention here, since it has such a wide variety of Coverage + Utility Moves like QA

[Set]
name: Offensive
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge / Quick Attack
item: Life Orb
ability: Mold Breaker / Moxie
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Swords Dance makes it powerful
  • X-Scissor is stab
  • Eq hits mean Poison-, Fire-, and Steel-types
  • Edge hits Flying-types, because they eat bugs :(
  • Quick Attack because priority

Set Details
========

  • Max/Max Adamant because break walls
  • 85 is a relatively important speed tier, so run Jolly to outspeed things Mention what things
  • Life Orb for lots of damage, Expert Belt if no recoil is more important Why not just bring up Lum and talk about it here, since I don't think Expert Belt is really that good
  • Mold Breaker dodges Quaggy :o
  • Moxie for potential steamrolling, preferably with Quick Attack Mention Quick Attack picks off faster threats like [mons] and is able to get the moxie boost that way
Is Close Combat worth a mention here? It hits steel and rock types harder, so maybe calc EQ vs CC on common mons like Rhydon and Regi

Usage Tips
========

  • SD and break walls
  • Kill Psychic-types
  • More wallbreaker than late-game sweeper
  • Moxie can't break Quaggy, so if you run it, don't set up before you weaken it

Team Options
========

  • Rock-types such as Rhydon and Regirock to deal with Flying-types. Pinsir beat Grass-types in return
  • Slow pivots such as Lanturn and Mesprit that can safely bring in Pinsir without it taking damage I don't like Mesprit being mentioned as a Slow pivot, as it usually runs Scarf + U-Turn, or fast U-Turn with Rocks. I guess healing wish works, but maybe that should be another bullet.
  • Late-game cleaners such as Tauros and Scyther that benefit from Pinsir dealing with the walls that otherwise stop them. Mention Pinsir being able to break down Steel and Rock types for Scyther, and Scyther being able to check Fighting Types.
  • Hazard removal from Prinplup or something, because Pinsir take damage from all hazards and having a healthy Pinsir makes setting up SDs much easier
  • If Moxie, something to deal with Quagsire

[Set]
name: Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: X-Scissor
move 4: Toxic / Rock Tomb
item: Focus Sash
ability: Mold Breaker
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Stealth Rock #1 move after Knock Off, punish them Flying-types
  • Knock Off because Knock Off
  • X-Scissor for stab
  • Toxic makes you less set-up fodder
  • Rock Tomb is another way to not be set-up fodder and get a better match-up against a bunch of things
I've seen people run Quick Attack for Sash Mons, so maybe just give it a mention.
Set Details
========

  • Max Speed Jolly because gotta go fast Mention what you are outspeeding
  • Rest in Attack to boost your Knock Offs
  • Mold Breaker so you ignore Xatu's Magic Bounce

Usage Tips
========
  • Don't fear Xatu, you set up Rocks on it anyway
  • Not used for its power, but for support (doesn't get much support options :() You can't really say "not used for power" when you are running Max Attack and Speed
  • Spam Knock Off if Rocks are up
  • Rock Tomb Archeops to win the lead matchup

Team Options
========

  • Ghost-types such as Mismagius, or other things, that can prevent Stealth Rock from being removed since Pinsir is unlikely to get more than one or two chances of setting them up Mention Pawniard here as well, as Defog is just as common as Spin atm.
  • Lilligant and other stuff that like Study and Sashes being broken when they sweep

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Band
Scarf
Lum Berry
Substitute + Focus Punch if you're cool

Checks and Counters
===================

**Flying-types**: Archeops, Fletchinder, Swellow. Resist STAB, usually outspeeds, watch out for Stone Edge/Rock Tomb, QA can sorta get around them too

**Faster Pokemon**: Due to Pinsir's average bulk and typing, anything that outspeed and hit Pinsir for at least neutral can deal a lot of damage to it. Frailer Pokemon such as Liepard can't really switch in though.

**Really Fat Pokemon**: Some physically defensive Pokemon, such as Mega-Audino, Granbull, Regirock, and Rhydon, can survive even a boosted attack from Pinsir and then neutralize Pinsir, either by attacking or with Thunder Wave.
Tag me once you've implemented the changes that are in Bold.
 

Quite Quiet

why fall in love when you can fall asleep
is a Site Content Manageris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
TFP Leader
Did most of ^ metaphysical

I don't think Quick Attack is worth mentioning on Lead, because Rock Tomb has much more utility while still allowing you to get past every reasonably common Sash user anyway... Secondly I don't know why Pinsir would need Fighting-types gone. Even if they resist Pinsir's STAB, Pinsir resist their as well, and in a 1v1 Pinsir can win thanks to SD + coverage options + being faster :/
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
I also don't think CC is worth mentioning on SD Pinsir either; it misses out on coverage against Poison-types, Levitating Ghosts (assuming Mold Breaker Pinsir), Mawile, etc. while offering coverage that EQ already gets anyway.

Also QQ when talking about Mold Breaker in Set Details on SD Pinsir, mention it also ignores Levitate, which is very relevant against Levitating Ghosts and Weezing.
 

Quite Quiet

why fall in love when you can fall asleep
is a Site Content Manageris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
TFP Leader
So I thought about the CC damage a bit, and rather than including CC, add Spikes in TO. You get about the same damage rolls with 2 layers + eq.

Would that work better for you, Punchshroom ?
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Quite Quiet That's a fine alternative when compared to sacrificing coverage, and u might as well mention Stealth Rock so that you can easily snipe Fletchinder with +2 Quick Attack before it can retaliate; which is to say hazard support is especially vital to Pinsir's success. You should still mention CC in OO, if only to tell people why you shouldn't include it.

Due to Pinsir's below average bulk, Usage Tips for the SD set should specify when it can set up the SD (threaten Psychic-types mostly, as sadly most Grass-types do not fear Pinsir heavily). Also when u say "more wallbreaker than late-game sweeper", be sure to mention that Moxie gives Pinsir the opportunity to perform as one.

Usage Tips of the SR set should just Rock Tomb faster things in general, unless they have priority; the Speed drop gives Pinsir one extra turn to do what it wants.

Faster Pokemon section of C&C is kind of barebones; not every mon can revenge Pinsir (Lilligant), so specify those that can.

QC 2/3
 

Quite Quiet

why fall in love when you can fall asleep
is a Site Content Manageris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
TFP Leader
I can't delay this any longer. I'm not happy with the overview, but I guess it's written...
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
[OVERVIEW]

With access to Mold Breaker and Swords Dance, Pinsir can pose as a very threatening set-up sweepers that Pokemon such as Quagsire, that rely on their ability to beat them, cannot deal with. Pinsir's Bug-typing, while not incredibly useful offensively, allows Pinsir to hit many of the tiers Psychic- and Dark-types very hard. While its typing doesn't offer resistance to a lot of types, resisting Fighting- and Ground-type moves, as well as okay bulk, allows Pinsir a fairly easy time setting up. Pinsir also has a pretty wide offensive movepool with coverage options that can be used based on the teams specific needs. Access to Stealth Rock, as well as Mold Breaker, makes Pinsir one of the few Stealth Rock setters who can set up Stealth Rock on Xatu. However, Pinsir faces strong competition from Sawk as a physical wallbreaker, who has access to most of the same moves Pinsir does, but with a much stronger STAB move. The abundance of Flying-types in the tier doesn't make the situation easier for Pinsir either, but with the correct team support Pinsir can still be effective.

1. The first sentence is to be frank, awfully worded and super unclear. First you say "threatening set-up sweepers" which I'm assuming you meant sweeper. The second part of the sentence bothers me more, as I kinda get what you're trying to say about how its one of the few setup sweepers that can break past quagsire, but please just rewrite the entire sentence.

2. The comparison between pinsir and sawk is very iffy, and its not really one I would make. Sawk is only a wallbreaker, while pinsir is a setup sweeper and can fulfill two different roles on a team and pinsir and sawk dont really have similar checks. Scyther would be a much better comparison here since it plays the similar role of an offensive bug type (which there are few of in the first place) setup sweeper and it has a secondary typing and higher speed over pinsir which are both very important.

3. I dunno if noting how flying types are really common is that important, but the latter part of the sentence is fluff. One of pinsir's biggest flaws is its average speed for an offensive pokemon, allowing it to easily be revenge killed by the likes of pyroar and archeops.

[Set]
name: Offensive
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge / Quick Attack
item: Life Orb
ability: Mold Breaker / Moxie
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Swords Dance boost Pinsir's Attack stat really high, allowing it to easily break down common walls. X-Scissor gets STAB and has fairly good power and gives a lot of neutral coverage. Earthquake hits the Poison-, Fire-, and Steel-types the resist X-Scissor and Stone Edge rounds off the coverage by hitting the Flying-types the other two moves cannot. Quick Attack is an option over Stone Edge to give Pinsir some very useful priority to work around its less than stellar speed.

examples, examples, examples. there are none here, fix that.

Set Details
========
EVs are put into Attack and Speed with and an Adamant nature to get as much power as possible. 85 is a relatively important Speed tier, so a Jolly nature can be used to outspeed Pokemon such as Mesprit, Adamant Sawk, and Adamant Kangaskhan. Life Orb boost all attacks used for a lot of extra damage. However, Lum Berry is an option that allows Pinsir to set up on Pokemon such as Lanturn and Miltank easier. Mold Breaker is used to get around common stops to set-up sweepers such as Quagsire, as well as allowing Pinsir to hit Weezing and other Levitating Pokemon with Earthquake. Moxie can be used for potential steamrolling, preferably with Quick Attack. Quick Attack can also be used, in combination with Moxie, to take out faster, frail threats such as Liepard and Pyroar for an easy Moxie boost. the last sentence doesnt belong here, you already noted how quick attacks synergizes with moxie

Usage Tips
========
The goal is to set up a Swords Dance and break the opponents walls. However, due to Pinsir's very average bulk, the it's best to set up a Swords Dance on Pokemon that Pinsir forces out, most notably Psychic-types such as Musharna and Claydol. Grass-types generally have some way to deal with Pinsir as it sets up, so they are harder to set up on. Pinsir should act more wallbreaker than late-game sweeper, but Moxie can allow Pinsir to sweep late-game as well. However, Moxie can't break Quagsire, so if Pinsir has Moxie over Mold Breaker, Quagsire needs to be severly weakened before Pinsir can effectively set up and use the boosts.

Team Options
========
Rock-types such as Rhydon and Regirock to deal with Flying-types. Pinsir can beat Grass-types in return. Stealth Rock and Spikes support from Pokemon such as Rhydon, Regirock, Garbodor, and Ferroseed is very useful, as without entry hazards Pinsir cannot take out some important Pokemon before fainting. Some notable examples include OHKOing Klinklang with Earthquake after a layer of Spikes and 2HKOing Rhydon after two layers of Spikes. Other good partners are slow pivots such as Lanturn, Musharna and Defensive Mawile that can safely bring in Pinsir without it taking any damage. Late-game cleaners such as Tauros and Scyther appreciate Pinsir dealing with the walls that otherwise stop them. Scyther especially benefit from Pinsir breaking down the Rock- and Steel-types Scyther otherwise can't touch. Hazard removal from Prinplup or Claydol, as Pinsir take damage from all entry hazards and having a healthy Pinsir makes setting up Swords Dances much easier, as well as giving it more turns to attack before Life Orb recoil takes it out. If Pinsir is running Moxie, a Grass-type such as Lilligant to deal with Quagsire is very helpful, as Quagsire otherwise wall Moxie variants completely.



[Set]
name: Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: X-Scissor
move 4: Toxic / Rock Tomb
item: Focus Sash
ability: Mold Breaker
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Stealth Rock generates a lot of passive damage, especially to Pokemon weak to Rock. Knock Off is a very safe attack to use, dealing good damage and removing items. X-Scissor is STAB and a more powerful option over Knock Off is pure damage is desired. Toxic is used to discourage the opponent setting up on Pinsir, or punish those that do. Rock Tomb is another way to punish the opponent boosting and get a better match up against faster Pokemon.

uh, where is earthquake? it easily deserves its own full moveslot and its concerning that it wasnt listed here, and it should probably replace knock off.
there's also no examples of pokemon the moves hit here, please fix that.


Set Details
========
Max Speed EVs and a Jolly nature is used to outspeed as much as possible, including but not limited to Mesprit, Adamant Sawk, and Samurott. The remaining EVs are put into Attack to boost Pinsir's attacks. Mold Breaker is used to ignore Xatu's Magic Bounce.

Usage Tips
========
Xatu is not a problem for getting up hazards with Pinsir, so there is nothing except Taunt stopping Pinsir from setting up Stealth Rock. Pinsir's task is to support the team, so attacking just for damage should be secondary to supporting. Knock Off is mostly the most rewarding move to use if Stealth Rock is up, but pick moves based on the situation. Using Rock Tomb on faster Pokemon without priority can give Pinsir some extra turns to do something.

Team Options
========
Ghost-types such as Mismagius, or other Pokemon such as Pawniard, that can prevent or discourage Stealth Rock from being removed as Pinsir is unlikely to get more than one or two chances of setting them up. Frailer Pokemon such as Lilligant that benefit from a Pokemon's Sturdy or Focus Sash being broken when they sweep appreciate how reliable Pinsir is at setting up Stealth Rock.

more examples pls

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Pinsir can use Choice Band for a lot of initial power, but it's a set mostly done better by Sawk, who gets a more spammable STAB and the same coverage. Similarly, Choice Scarf is an option with Moxie, but the low initial power and no boosting item makes it somewhat hard to get anything done. Close Combat is a mostly outclassed option over Earthquake, as Close Combat and X-Scissor share a lot of resists. It does hit a few Pokemon harder than Earthquake, but not enough to be considered. A Substitute + Focus Punch set can be used, but it shares a lot problems with Close Combat and should rarely be considered. The power boost does make it situationally useful however.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Flying-types**: Flying-types such as Archeops, Scyther, and Swellow are a pretty big trouble for Pinsir. They resist Pinsir's STAB and in most cases also outspeed Pinsir itself, easily taking it out with their STAB moves. They do have to watch out for Stone Edge or Rock Tomb however, and Quick Attack after a couple of boosts can get past them as well.

**Faster Pokemon**: Due to Pinsir's average bulk and typing, most Pokemon that outspeed and hit Pinsir for at least neutral can deal a lot of damage to it; some examples of such Pokemon are Electivire, Haunter, Scyhter, and Swellow. Frailer Pokemon such as Liepard and Haunter can't really switch in though.

**Really Fat Pokemon**: Some physically defensive Pokemon, such as Mega-Audino, Granbull, Regirock, and Rhydon, can survive even a boosted attack from Pinsir and then neutralize Pinsir, either by attacking or with Thunder Wave.
physically bulk > fat, fat is not a term used in analyses
This needs a bunch of work, fix up the points listed and I'll look at this again.
 

Quite Quiet

why fall in love when you can fall asleep
is a Site Content Manageris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
TFP Leader
This needs a bunch of work, fix up the points listed and I'll look at this again.
re: I disagreed with replacing Knock Off, so I discussed that with Punchshroom, which ended at EQ slashed before Knock Off. The utility Knock Off brings for late-game is sometimes much more useful than the early game pressure eq would give you, too.

Everything else should be done tho.
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
[OVERVIEW]

With access to Mold Breaker and Swords Dance, Pinsir is one of few set-up sweepers that can get past Quagsire in NU. Pinsir's Bug-typing, while not incredibly useful offensively, allows Pinsir to hit many of the tiers Psychic- and Dark-types very hard. While its typing doesn't offer resistance to a lot of types, resisting Fighting- and Ground-type moves, as well as okay bulk, allows Pinsir a fairly easy time setting up. Pinsir also has a pretty wide offensive movepool with coverage options that can be used based on the teams specific needs. Access to Stealth Rock, as well as Mold Breaker, makes Pinsir one of the few Stealth Rock setters who can set up Stealth Rock on Xatu. However, Pinsir faces competition from Scyther as a set-up sweeper, who has a secondary typing, more speed, and better overall defenses than Pinsir, especially with Eviolite equipped.

[Set]
name: Offensive
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge / Quick Attack
item: Life Orb
ability: Mold Breaker / Moxie
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Swords Dance boost Pinsir's Attack stat really high, allowing it to easily break down common walls. X-Scissor gets STAB and has fairly good power and gives a lot of neutral coverage. Earthquake hits the Poison-, Fire-, and Steel-types such as Garbodor, Magmortar, and Mawile that resist X-Scissor and Stone Edge rounds off the coverage by hitting Flying-types such as Archeops and Swellow, which the other two moves cannot. Quick Attack is an option over Stone Edge to give Pinsir some very useful priority to work around its less than stellar speed.

eq hitting garb is important since it avoids contact from its rocky helmet and aftermath. give stone edge a separate sentence and add pelipper and mantine to its targets since chops/swellow/scyther have to be hit on the switch with it and pinsir obviously outspeeds pelipper and mantine

Set Details
========
EVs are put into Attack and Speed with and an Adamant nature to get as much power as possible. 85 is a relatively important Speed tier, so a Jolly nature can be used to outspeed Pokemon such as Mesprit, Adamant Sawk, and Adamant Kangaskhan. Life Orb boost all attacks used for a lot of extra damage. However, Lum Berry is an option that allows Pinsir to set up on Pokemon such as Lanturn and Miltank easier. Mold Breaker is used to get around common stops to set-up sweepers such as Quagsire, as well as allowing Pinsir to hit Weezing and other Levitating Pokemon with Earthquake. Moxie can be used for potential steamrolling, preferably with Quick Attack.

Usage Tips
========
The goal is to set up a Swords Dance and break the opponents walls. However, due to Pinsir's very average bulk, the it's best to set up a Swords Dance on Pokemon that Pinsir forces out, most notably Psychic-types such as Musharna and Claydol. Grass-types generally have some way to deal with Pinsir as it sets up, so they are harder to set up on. Pinsir should act more wallbreaker than late-game sweeper, but Moxie can allow Pinsir to sweep late-game as well. However, Moxie can't break Quagsire, so if Pinsir has Moxie over Mold Breaker, Quagsire needs to be severly weakened nah it should be removed entirely before trying to sweep before Pinsir can effectively set up and use the boosts.

Team Options
========
Pinsir appreciates Rock-types such as Rhydon and Regirock that can deal with the Flying-types that Pinsir are troubled by. Pinsir can beat the Grass-types they are troubled by in return. Stealth Rock and Spikes support from Pokemon such as Rhydon, Regirock, Garbodor, and Ferroseed is very useful, as without entry hazards Pinsir cannot take out some important Pokemon before fainting. Some notable examples include OHKOing Klinklang with Earthquake after a layer of Spikes and 2HKOing Rhydon after two layers of Spikes. the more notable calc here is that +2 adamant lo eq has a high chance to ohko tank rhydon after one spike and guaranteed after sr + spike Other good partners are slow pivots such as Lanturn, Musharna and Defensive Mawile that can safely bring in Pinsir without it taking any damage. Late-game cleaners such as Tauros and Scyther appreciate Pinsir dealing with the walls that otherwise stop them. tauros and other fast mons in general are good to deal with pokemon that are faster than pinsir because it has to rely on quick attack to deal with them Scyther especially benefit from Pinsir breaking down the Rock- and Steel-types Scyther otherwise can't touch. I'm iffy on scyther as a teammate since bug is such an awful defensive typing and stacking those weaknesses sucks, but if you do keep it be sure to note how the stacking weaknesses thing is a big downside Hazard removal from Prinplup or Claydol, as Pinsir take damage from all entry hazards and having a healthy Pinsir makes setting up Swords Dances much easier, as well as giving it more turns to attack before Life Orb recoil takes it out. If Pinsir is running Moxie, a Grass-type such as Lilligant to deal with Quagsire is very helpful, as Quagsire otherwise wall Moxie variants completely. cacturne and shiftry also work for this role

[Set]
name: Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Earthquake / Knock Off
move 4: Toxic / Rock Tomb
item: Focus Sash
ability: Mold Breaker
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Stealth Rock generates a lot of passive damage, especially to Pokemon weak to Rock. X-Scissor is STAB deals good damage to Psychic- and Dark-types such as Mesprit, Musharna, Liepard, and Shiftry. Earthquake lets Pinsir do immediate damage to threats such as Garbodor, Mawile, and OHKOing Magmortar, while Knock Off lets Pinsir cripple threats such as Rhydon and Regirock in the long-term instead. Toxic is used to discourage the opponent setting up on Pinsir, or punish those that do. Rock Tomb is another way to punish the opponent boosting and get a better match up against faster Pokemon such as Archeops, Pyroar, and Swellow.

Set Details
========
Max Speed EVs and a Jolly nature is used to outspeed as much as possible, including but not limited to Mesprit, Adamant Sawk, and Samurott. The remaining EVs are put into Attack to boost Pinsir's attacks. Mold Breaker is used to ignore Xatu's Magic Bounce.

add a sentence for focus sash here

Usage Tips
========
Xatu is not a problem for getting up hazards with Pinsir, so there is nothing except Taunt stopping Pinsir from setting up Stealth Rock. Pinsir's task is to support the team, so attacking just for damage should be secondary to supporting. Knock Off is mostly the most rewarding move to use if Stealth Rock is up, but pick moves based on the situation. Using Rock Tomb on faster Pokemon without priority can give Pinsir some extra turns to do something.

Team Options
========
Ghost-types such as Mismagius and Rotom, or other Pokemon such as Pawniard, that can prevent or discourage Stealth Rock from being removed are very good partners, as Pinsir is unlikely to get more than one or two chances of setting them up. Frailer Pokemon such as Lilligant, Swellow, Pyroar, and Jynx that benefit from a Pokemon's Sturdy or Focus Sash being broken when they sweep appreciate how reliable Pinsir is at setting up Stealth Rock.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Pinsir can use Choice Band for a lot of initial power, but it's a set mostly done better by Sawk, who gets a more spammable STAB and the more coverage moves. Similarly, Choice Scarf is an option with Moxie, but the low initial power and no boosting item makes it somewhat hard to get anything done. Close Combat is a mostly outclassed option over Earthquake, as Close Combat and X-Scissor share a lot of resists. It does hit a few Pokemon harder than Earthquake, but not enough to be considered. A Substitute + Focus Punch set can be used, but it shares a lot problems with Close Combat and should rarely be considered. The power boost does make it situationally useful however.

close combat ohkos rhydon and regirock at +2 which is the most notable thing it does, it also hits miltank and ferroseed

Checks and Counters
===================

**Flying-types**: Flying-types such as Archeops, Scyther, and Swellow are a pretty big trouble for Pinsir. They resist Pinsir's STAB and in most cases also outspeed Pinsir itself, easily taking it out with their STAB moves. They do have to watch out for Stone Edge or Rock Tomb however, and Quick Attack after a couple of boosts can get past them as well.

**Faster Pokemon**: Due to Pinsir's average bulk and typing, most Pokemon that outspeed and hit Pinsir for at least neutral can deal a lot of damage to it; some examples of such Pokemon are Electivire, Haunter, Scyhter, and Swellow. Frailer Pokemon such as Liepard and Haunter can't really switch in though.

liepard's blackglasses boosted knock off cant even kill after sr, remove it - pyroar is a much better example.

**Physically Bulky Pokemon**: Some physically defensive Pokemon, such as Mega-Audino, Granbull, Regirock, and Rhydon, can survive even a boosted attack from Pinsir and then neutralize Pinsir, either by attacking or with Thunder Wave.
rhydon takes a ton from +2 earthquake, remove it. regirock takes min 80% from +2 adamant lo eq, so its a much softer check and I dont know if it should really be mentioned. Add that if its running moxie it cant get past weezing and quagsire.
Comments in bold.

I dunno how I feel about CB getting a set, I haven't seen it used much outside Omfuga (which isnt the best support for a set since he will put a CB on anything) and I don't really see the value or merit in the set over the current two. Do you mind trying to give more of an argument as to why it should have a set? Opinions from others would be appreciated.

I'll give the 3rd check after we decide on the CB set.
 

Kiyo

the cowboy kid
is a Forum Moderatoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Well in general, Omfuga and I kinda share a philosophy on attackers with high base stats. The ability to sometimes boost your attack is often outweighed by the immediate power you gain from a Choice Band boost (which is why you'll see fuga throw specs and band on anything with a base attack stat over 110 if it has a decent stab). With Pinsir specifically you only really need two moveslots to be effective, those being X-Scissor and Earthquake, which is something we've been over in this thread, so you have the ability to run the utility of Stealth Rock without being piss weak if you need to attack, and you have the utility of being able to run any of Quick Attack, Toxic, and Knock Off.

I guess the biggest reason I'd like to see CB get a set is because it can do the job of both of the current sets when it needs to, and it often performs more consistently thanks to the immediate power Choice Band provides. I'm sure people will make arguments about Choice locking yourself into things like Stealth Rock, Quick Attack, and Toxic. But to be honest its a lot more detrimental on paper than in practice, having used several Choiced utility mons in the past, including this CB Pinsir set. That's my argument for it getting a set boltsandbombers, you guys can do with it what you will.
 

Quite Quiet

why fall in love when you can fall asleep
is a Site Content Manageris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
TFP Leader
Kiyo I mean I guess, but to me it sounds pretty much the same as the lead, but with a different item. Does it really play that much differently for it to need its entirely own set?
 
Considering it plays differently it kinda does deserve a different set but this far into the writeup and with 2 checks it might be worth making it separately?
 
CB can also run close combat, a pretty good neutral move on choice band that warrants some 2hkos and OHKOs that eq does not.

Also cb pinsir has much more effecting wall-breaking capabilities-- being able to 2hko quagsire with rocks + spikes
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Quite Quiet I decided that if/when we do have a CB set it will be in a separate thread, as galbia pointed out its already written so it'd be a hassle to add it in here.
Implement the changes from my previous post and move this to GP.

QC 3/3
 

Quite Quiet

why fall in love when you can fall asleep
is a Site Content Manageris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
TFP Leader
boltsandbombers did that. I kept Scyther in, mostly because Bug-spam is cool to play with and the combined weaknesses can be worked around.

If/when a cb set gets added it should be removed from OO though
 

Malley

Dominachu
Add
Remove/Change
Comment
(AC) = Add Comma, (RC) = Remove Comma, (AH) = Add Hyphen, etc.


[OVERVIEW]
With access to Mold Breaker and Swords Dance, Pinsir is one of few set-up setup sweepers that can get past Quagsire in NU. Pinsir's Bug-(RH) typing, (RC) while not incredibly useful offensively, (RC) This is confusing when you then go on to talk about the typing's offensive use allows Pinsir to hit many of the tiers Psychic- and Dark-types in the tier very hard. While its typing doesn't offer many resistances, (AC) resistance to a lot of types, resisting Pinsir's resistances to Fighting- and Ground-type moves, along with its decent bulk as well as okay bulk, allows give it Pinsir a fairly easy time setting up The syntax of this sentence was mostly sound, but it was really awkward to read - the flow was very erratic. I hope the changes don't seem too subjective. Pinsir also has a pretty wide offensive movepool with coverage options that allows it to adapt to fit its team can be used based on the teams specific needs. Access to Stealth Rock, (RC) as well as alongside Mold Breaker, (RC) makes Pinsir one of the few Stealth Rock setters who that Either use "that / which" for the whole article, as you started doing, or use "who" for the whole article. Don't mix them can set up Stealth Rock on Xatu. However, Pinsir faces competition from Scyther as a set-up setup sweeper, who which has a useful secondary typing I assume this is supposed to be a positive thing, more Speed speed, and better overall defenses bulk than Pinsir, especially with Eviolite equipped.

[Set]
name: Offensive
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge / Quick Attack
item: Life Orb
ability: Mold Breaker / Moxie
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Swords Dance boost Pinsir's Attack to extremely high levels stat really high, allowing it to easily break down common walls. X-Scissor is fairly powerful with STAB gets STAB and has fairly good power and gives a lot of good neutral coverage. Earthquake hits the Poison-, Fire-, and Steel-types such as Garbodor, Magmortar, and Mawile that resist X-Scissor, (AC) such as Garbodor, Magmortar, and Mawile. Stone Edge rounds off the coverage by hitting Flying-types such as Mantine, Pelipper, Archeops, and Swellow hard, which the other two moves cannot do X-Scissor can hit Flying-types, just not hard / super effectively, whichever word you want to use. Quick Attack is an option over Stone Edge to give Pinsir some very useful priority to work around its less-(AH)than-(AH)stellar speed.

Set Details
========
EVs are put into Attack and Speed with and an Adamant nature to get as much power as possible. 85 is a relatively important Speed tier, so a A Jolly nature can be used to outspeed Pokemon such as Mesprit, Adamant Sawk, and Adamant Kangaskhan. Life Orb maximizes Pinsir's damage output boost all attacks used for a lot of extra damage More specific. However, Lum Berry is an option that allows Pinsir to set up on Pokemon such as Lanturn and Miltank more easily easier. Mold Breaker is used to get around common stops to set-up setup sweepers such as Quagsire, as well as allowing Pinsir Earthquake to hit Weezing and other Levitating Pokemon with Levitate Earthquake Didn't want to keep "Levitating", but also didn't want to say "Pokemon with Levitate with Earthquake". Moxie can be used if Quick Attack is run to make Pinsir's sweep very hard to stop after a few KOs. for potential steamrolling, preferably with Quick Attack. "steamrolling" here is far too vague a word. It is not a technical term, and is not clear from context.

Usage Tips
========
The goal is to set up a Swords Dance and break the opponent's (AA) walls. However, due to Pinsir's very average bulk, the it's best to Try to set up a Swords Dance on Pokemon that Pinsir forces out, most notably Psychic-types such as Musharna and Claydol, (AC) as Pinsir does not have good enough bulk to takes hits as it sets up. Grass-types generally have some way to deal with Pinsir as it sets up, so they are harder to set up on. This goes in C&C, or nowhere - if they can deal with Pinsir, Pinsir does not force them out Pinsir should act more as a wallbreaker than a late-game sweeper, but Moxie can allow Pinsir to sweep late-game as well. However, with Moxie Pinsir can't break Quagsire, so if Pinsir has Moxie over Mold Breaker, Quagsire needs to be removed before Pinsir can effectively set up and use the boosts This is implicit in "effectively".

Team Options
========
Pinsir appreciates Rock-types such as Rhydon and Regirock, (AC) which that can deal with the Flying-types that Pinsir are is troubled by. Pinsir can beat the Grass-types they are troubled by in return. Stealth Rock and Spikes support from Pokemon such as Rhydon, Regirock, Garbodor, and Ferroseed is very useful, as without entry hazards Pinsir misses out on some important KOs. cannot take out some important Pokemon before fainting. Not sure what "before fainting" means here. I guess it means that it can't OHKO some Pokemon that can OHKO it back, or 2HKO some that can 2HKO it? Or is this about Life Orb recoil? "Pinsir cannot beat some important Pokemon" would be a good general fix, but the change I've got with should work better with the following sentence. Some notable examples include OHKOing Klinklang with Earthquake after a layer of Spikes Say what the exact conditions are, as you did for Rhydon; unboosted, with a Life Orb and an Adamant nature? That's the best I can see from the calculator and a +2 Adamant nature Life Orb Earthquake OHKOing Rhydon after Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes at +2 Attack with an Adamant nature and Life Orb. Other good partners are slow pivots such as Lanturn, Musharna, (AC) and D defensive Mawile, (AC) which that can safely bring in Pinsir without it taking any damage. Late-game cleaners such as Tauros and Scyther appreciate Pinsir dealing with the walls that otherwise stop them. They can in return deal with the faster Pokemon that Pinsir has to rely on Quick Attack to beat. Scyther especially benefits from Pinsir breaking down the Rock- and Steel-types Scyther otherwise can't touch, but the shared weaknesses to Rock is a big downside to using them together I'm not sure what the message here is. You seem to be saying that they pressure their common checks, but also that the fact that they have common checks is a weakness. Hazard removal from Pokemon such as Prinplup or Claydol is appreciated, as Pinsir take damage from all entry hazards and has trouble setting up at low health. It is also very easily worn down by entry hazard damage combined with Life Orb recoil. having a healthy Pinsir makes setting up Swords Dances much easier, as well as giving it more turns to attack before Life Orb recoil takes it out. Be more specific. If Pinsir is running Moxie, a Grass-type such as Lilligant, Cacturne, and Shiftry to deal with Quagsire is very helpful to deal with Quagsire, as Quagsire otherwise wall Moxie variants completely.

[Set]
name: Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Earthquake / Knock Off
move 4: Toxic / Rock Tomb
item: Focus Sash
ability: Mold Breaker
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Stealth Rock generates a lot of passive damage, especially to Pokemon weak to Rock. This is just the Stealth Rock mechanics. Say something about Pinsir being able to set it up against Xatu, like "With Mold Breaker, Pinsir can set up Stealth Rock even against Magic Bounce users such as Xatu" X-Scissor is STAB deals good damage to Psychic- and Dark-types such as Mesprit, Musharna, Liepard, and Shiftry. Earthquake lets Pinsir do immediate significant damage to threats such as Garbodor, Mawile, and OHKOing Not necessary, as you don't mention things that X-Scissor OHKOes Magmortar, while Knock Off lets Pinsir cripple threats such as Rhydon and Regirock in the long-term instead I don't think the short- / long-term dichotomy is necessary, and it makes this a little confusing. Toxic is used to discourages the opponent from setting up on Pinsir, or and punishes those that do. Rock Tomb is another way to punish the opponent if they try to set up boosting and to get a better match-(AH)up against faster Pokemon such as Archeops, Pyroar, and Swellow.

Set Details
========
Maximum Speed EVs and a Jolly nature is are used to outspeed as much as possible, including but not limited to Mesprit, Adamant Sawk, and Samurott. The remaining EVs are put into Attack to boost Pinsir's attacks damage output. Mold Breaker is used to ignore Xatu's Magic Bounce. Focus Sash allows Pinsir to live any attack in order to more reliably set up Stealth Rock.

Usage Tips
========
Xatu is not a problem for getting up hazards with Pinsir, so there is nothing except Taunt stopping Pinsir from setting up Stealth Rock. This is not a Usage Tip. Say something like "Play carefully around Taunt users, as they are the only thing that can stop Pinsir setting up Stealth Rock". Pinsir's task is to support the team, so attacking just for damage should be secondary to supporting. Knock Off is mostly the most rewarding move to use if Stealth Rock is up, but pick moves based on the situation. The second part of this sentence is just saying "make the best play", and adds nothing. The first part is odd, as Knock Off is only a slash after Earthquake. Maybe say "If it is run, Knock Off can be used fairly freely to cripple switch-ins for the rest of the team". I'm inclined to remove the sentence below as well, as it doesn't do much more than describe how Rock Tomb works. This is QC, but it feels like there's more room for discussion of the phases of the game in which Pinsir should be used and for what on the opposing team it should be kept healthy. Using Rock Tomb on faster Pokemon without priority can give Pinsir some extra turns to do something.

Team Options
========
Ghost-types such as Mismagius and Rotom, or other Pokemon such as Pawniard, (RC) Very awkward way of structuring the sentence Pokemon that can prevent or discourage Stealth Rock from being removed, (AC) such as Ghost-types and Pawniard, (AC) are very good partners, as Pinsir is unlikely to get more than one or two chances of setting to set them up. Frailer offensive Pokemon such as Lilligant, Swellow, Pyroar, and Jynx that benefit from a Pokemon's Sturdy or Focus Sash being broken when they sweep appreciate how reliable Pinsir is at setting up Stealth Rock.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Pinsir can use Choice Band and four attacks for a lot of initial power, but it's a set mostly done better by Sawk, who which gets a more spammable better STAB attack and more coverage moves. Similarly, Choice Scarf is an option with Moxie, but the low initial power and no lack of a damage-(AH)boosting item makes it somewhat hard to get anything done. Close Combat is a mostly outclassed option over by Earthquake, as Close Combat and X-Scissor share a lot of resistances, (AC) resists. (RP) It but it does hit a few Pokemon harder than Earthquake however, such as being able to OHKOing both Rhydon and Regirock at +2, as well as and hitting Ferroseed and Miltank super effectively. A Substitute + Focus Punch set can be used, but it shares a lot problems with Close Combat and should rarely be considered. The power boost does make it situationally useful, (AC) however.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Flying-types**: Flying-types such as Archeops, Scyther, and Swellow are a pretty big trouble for Pinsir. They resist Pinsir's STAB attacks and in most cases also outspeed Pinsir itself, easily taking it out with their STAB moves. They do have to watch out for Stone Edge or Rock Tomb however, and Quick Attack after a couple of boosts can get past them as well.

**Faster Pokemon**: Due to Pinsir's average bulk and typing, most Pokemon that outspeed and hit Pinsir for at least neutral at least neutrally can deal a lot of damage to it; some examples of such Pokemon are Electivire, Haunter, Scyhter Scyther, and Swellow. Frailer Pokemon such as Pyroar and Haunter can't really switch in though.

**Physically Bulky Pokemon**: Some physically defensive Pokemon, such as Mega-(RH) Audino, Granbull, and Regirock, can survive even a boosted attack from Pinsir and then neutralize it Pinsir, either by attacking or with Thunder Wave. Moxie variants are also stopped cold by Weezing and Quagsire, as it has no way to get past either of them.

GP 1/2
 

Quite Quiet

why fall in love when you can fall asleep
is a Site Content Manageris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
TFP Leader
Scyther especially benefits from Pinsir breaking down the Rock- and Steel-types Scyther can't touch, but the shared weaknesses to Rock is a big downside to using them together. pinsir and scyther share more weaknesses than just rock. they don't really share counters either, because pinsir can beat rock/steel/weezing and scyther can't.

Stealth Rock generates a lot of passive damage, especially to Pokemon weak to Rock. This is just the Stealth Rock mechanics. Say something about Pinsir being able to set it up against Xatu, like "With Mold Breaker, Pinsir can set up Stealth Rock even against Magic Bounce users such as Xatu" I did this, but I tried to focus more on stealth rock than mold breaker (because this literally comes in set details already)

Xatu is not a problem for getting up hazards with Pinsir, so there is nothing except Taunt stopping Pinsir from setting up Stealth Rock. This is not a Usage Tip. Say something like "Play carefully around Taunt users, as they are the only thing that can stop Pinsir setting up Stealth Rock". Pinsir's task is to support the team, so attacking just for damage should be secondary to supporting. Knock Off is mostly the most rewarding move to use if Stealth Rock is up, but pick moves based on the situation. The second part of this sentence is just saying "make the best play", and adds nothing. The first part is odd, as Knock Off is only a slash after Earthquake. Maybe say "If it is run, Knock Off can be used fairly freely to cripple switch-ins for the rest of the team". I'm inclined to remove the sentence below as well, as it doesn't do much more than describe how Rock Tomb works. This is QC, but it feels like there's more room for discussion of the phases of the game in which Pinsir should be used and for what on the opposing team it should be kept healthy. Using Rock Tomb on faster Pokemon without priority can give Pinsir some extra turns to do something. so this changed somewhat, because my problem with this comment is that pinsir won't survive 5 turns, and should never be an answer for something. it's only used because it can set up rocks well, with not-useless moves in the rest. regardless, I redid some of it if you want another look at it.

Ghost-types such as Mismagius and Rotom, or other Pokemon such as Pawniard, (RC) Very awkward way of structuring the sentence Pokemon that can prevent or discourage Stealth Rock from being removed, (AC) such as Ghost-types and Pawniard, (AC) are very good partners, as Pinsir is unlikely to get more than one or two chances of setting to set them up. is not giving any examples for ghost-types fine?
Did pretty much everything, with some comments on the changes. They're in bold in the above ^
 

Malley

Dominachu
Did pretty much everything, with some comments on the changes. They're in bold in the above ^
My bad on the first one - read "shared weakness", singular. The rest looks good, and yeah giving no examples of Ghost-types is fine. Every Ghost-type can block Rapid Spin, so giving examples of those that do it is pretty inane.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top