Ladder Anything Goes

[tehy]

PP stalling can't drag on infinitely unless it's under specific circumstances.

For what it's worth, Zarel has come up with in-game rules that stop all forms of endless battles, including future and past metagames. Maybe they should be implemented for AG.

that's what they are trying to do



Also, for anyone who doesn't mind Endless Battles in AG, ask yourself this: do you want to participate in an Endless Battle, ever?

Now anyone who knows me knows that I wouldn't give a rat's ass about the other player's caring. I'm a stall player. However, the difference is that, when I play, I play to win. I might make the other player sit through a 1000 turn battle, but I plan to win at the end of it. Endless Battle has nothing to do with winning. At best the win condition is 'other player gets bored and leaves', which is nowhere near guaranteed to happen.

so honestly, fuck endless battles

 

[Maleovex]

Rate my team pls

Dumbledore (Klefki) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]

THE SPECS POWA

Ron (Klefki) @ Choice Band
Ability: Magician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Foul Play
- Return
- Secret Power

THE BANDED POWA

Voldemort (Klefki) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

OG Klefki

Sirius (Klefki) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

OG Klefki

Harry (Klefki) @ Choice Band
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Switcheroo
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Foul Play

The lead

Hermione (Klefki) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Foul Play
- Swagger

The screens

This team is me trying to make non swagplay klefki sets

 

[Chloe]

Rate my team pls

Dumbledore (Klefki) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]

THE SPECS POWA

Ron (Klefki) @ Choice Band
Ability: Magician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Foul Play
- Return
- Secret Power

THE BANDED POWA

Voldemort (Klefki) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

OG Klefki

Sirius (Klefki) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

OG Klefki

Harry (Klefki) @ Choice Band
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Switcheroo
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Foul Play

The lead

Hermione (Klefki) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Foul Play
- Swagger

The screens

This team is me trying to make non swagplay klefki sets

Quite a creative team, with the usage of such unseen pokemon.

No, but seriously. Most non-swagplay sets are much worse than the swagplay sets. If you really wanted to chance things up maybe Evasion boosting on one SwagPlay set instead of Foul Play.

Replace the HP Ice with HP Water just in case you get some genius running Numel. The Screens Klefki is fine if you really want to keep it. The switcheroo is also almost viable, keep if you must. Get rid of the physical Klef and replace with a SwagPlay set probably.

Safeguard Ho-Oh still wrecks your team, and I'll assume you'll be seeing a lot of those if you rely on Klefki spam to boost yourself up the ladder.

 

[Kutscher]

hi i use to play this meta in the beggining (when full klefki teams and numel where a thing), but now everything looks different, can someone explain me why to use octilery?

 

[Choice Banned]

hi i use to play this meta in the beggining (when full klefki teams and numel where a thing), but now everything looks different, can someone explain me why to use octilery?

Moody.

 

[Kutscher]

Moody.

like subprotect? with bulk evs? and stab+coverage?

 

[TheHungrySage]

hi i use to play this meta in the beggining (when full klefki teams and numel where a thing), but now everything looks different, can someone explain me why to use octilery?

Some people enjoy using it due to Moody, but it can easily be outclassed by a multitude of other mons. Smeargle is your general go-to for Moody, but even Smeargle isn't that good in high-ladder AG play.

 

[PachChomp]

hi i use to play this meta in the beggining (when full klefki teams and numel where a thing), but now everything looks different, can someone explain me why to use octilery?

Same with Glalie. It's only niche is Moody. Moody + Baton Pass is basically it.

 

[Kutscher]

lol this metagame is really fun, i made a team trowing random mons and it's really easy go to the high ladder.

 

[Chloe]

lol this metagame is really fun, i made a team trowing random mons and it's really easy go to the high ladder.

High ladder is much higher in AG due to the Elo cap being much higher. For example I'm currently 1815 ranked, which before the reset would probably be referred to as the fringe of high ladder.

As for Octillery, never ever use it please. It's garbage even with moody.

 

[Whis]

Just wondering does anyone have success with hazard stacking in AG? Its really fun to use and really helps HO and pressures the opponent significantly. I've gotten to about top 50 with it so I wanted to hear some thoughts about it from other players of the tier n_n. Because AG has alot of bulky setters (P-don,klef,diancie) it helps me live a couple turns after I set rocks up to attack or set up or status the opponent depending on what mon I choose to set up the hazards.

 

[Chloe]

Just wondering does anyone have success with hazard stacking in AG? Its really fun to use and really helps HO and pressures the opponent significantly. I've gotten to about top 50 with it so I wanted to hear some thoughts about it from other players of the tier n_n. Because AG has alot of bulky setters (P-don,klef,diancie) it helps me live a couple turns after I set rocks up to attack or set up or status the opponent depending on what mon I choose to set up the hazards.

I've tried hazard stacking in the past to large extents. I actually have two teams on rotate with major hazard stacking qualities aiding them. One with webs, rocks and screens to aid in a PDon or EKiller sweep. Another team I use involves the stacking of Toxic Spikes and spreading of toxic to the opposing team, finalising with a MegaGar Venoshock sweep.

From my experience, if your opponent doesn't have Defog or taunts your setter its ezpz. Otherwise, your team crumbles apart and there's nothing you can do. You can try to build your team to survive if the hazard stacking fails but even that can be difficult. I don't know really, that's just my two cents.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Time for my 6 Arceus team...

No that probably isn't optimal, but I can so I will.

 

[PachChomp]

Time for my 6 Arceus team...

No that probably isn't optimal, but I can so I will.

A team of 6 Arceus is considered viable, and if done well, is really good in reality. Ghost + Normal Arceus combo work really well. Ground and Fairy Arceus should be considered to be implemented, but make sure you have a variety of Arceus so that Lugia doesn't counter your entire team.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Thanks for the suggestion - I think I'll try:

SD Ground, Support Ghost, CM Fairy, Support Rock, SD Steel, CM Dark

 

[TheHungrySage]

Just wondering does anyone have success with hazard stacking in AG? Its really fun to use and really helps HO and pressures the opponent significantly. I've gotten to about top 50 with it so I wanted to hear some thoughts about it from other players of the tier n_n. Because AG has alot of bulky setters (P-don,klef,diancie) it helps me live a couple turns after I set rocks up to attack or set up or status the opponent depending on what mon I choose to set up the hazards.

In my experience, Hazard Stacking doesn't work awfully well, as it requires 2+ mons to do, whereas the opponent can easily wipe all this hard work away with Defog. However, like Zangooser said, not all teams carry a Defogger, so maybe try to carry hazard stacking mons that serve purposes outside of this, to be useful when a Defogger is in play?

 

[Whis]

Most teams dont carry a defogger because the advantage of taunt,roost,other status over defog is just straight up more beneficial in most cases. If you play the hazard stacking right you can set up on the as he defogs as it gives you a free turn to handle the mon,whether it being switching into a favorable matchup against the mon. Paralyze/Swagger the mon with klefki,Diamond Storm/Ancient power diancie (most of the defoggers are flying types) the list of rock setters go on and on with their ways with their use of that turn.

Currently my most successful hazard stacking is more with mons that are aggressive (setters like Pdon,Mdiancie and klefki lel) and take advantage of a switch by getting rocks up while scoring residual damage on the team. With alot of mons to pressure mons that would defog with threatening a set up or that team losing that mon.

Zangooser T-spikes+Mgengar would be something I would really want to experiment with. Sounds really effective but there are a few viable flying types that dont get poisoned although that dont get OHKO'd by shadow ball. However, adding rocks+t-spikes takes care of that (thats probably what you originally meant).

EDIT: Yeah I see your point Josh, Usually its safer to set up a layer of spikes on the switch if that mon cant afford to stay in (on klef) and get paralyzed/swaggered on. Same goes with rocks as Pdon gets alot of chances to get rocks in and as I approach high ladder its becoming harder to set up all those hazards. Most teams have a diancie however it has clear body (and sableye has prankster) first before it mega's meaning I can set up 1 layer of spikes/rocks on its switch in before needing to switch in to something with a good matchup vs Diancie/Sableye.

 

[Josh]

Let me clear up this argument. Around 25% of high ladder AG teams carry hazard control in some form (not including magic bounce).

Does this mean hazard stacking is viable? I don't think so. Magic bounce mega diancie is (fairly) common and I suppose you do see the occasional mega sab as well. Hazards are in general hard to get up in AG, because there are SO many powerful potential sweepers who will set up in those turns. Stack hazards on xern? Geo it up and OHKO you next turn or get greedy and go for a second geo. Stack hazards on ekiller? SD away. In general there aren't many opportunities to hazard stack. Because of this, it's not a great strat.

Of course I'm not saying getting rocks up is hard. Primal don does that just fine. But finding opps to get spikes, tox spikes etc is rare. Not to mention how many threats are airborne or lum, nullifying those hazards.





And like Zangooser said: guys, please don't use glalie-mega, bibarel or octillery. They are trash. Smeargle is the only mon who can half pull off moody, and it's more useful for full baton pass teams than offense teams. They are really, really, really bad lol. If you want to play with hax, use klefki.




ChrystalFalchion 6 arceus teams are actually pretty viable like PachChomp mentioned. You're going to pretty much need 2 regular arceus, and one ghost arceus. Do not use flying/ice/fire/bug/grass/psychic arceus, they are outclassed. Any of the other types should be considered, specifically water/fairy/steel are often very useful.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Built the 6 Arceus team, and it's actually doing really well. So far I haven't lost a match, although I haven't exactly been facing the creme de la creme. So far my team is:

Support Ghost / Calm Mind Fairy / Swords Dance Ground / Swords Dance Normal / Calm Mind Dark / Support Rock

 

[exp1.1]

Yo dawg, I herd you like

Smeargles

, so I put a

Glalie

in your

Octillery

so you can Protect while you Substitute.

And I also thought that this thread could interest some of you (when battling against BP/Smeargles teams for instance, or when planning to build a team around Smeargle) and also give figures that can be used here when discussing about Smeargle's viability.

 

[Chloe]

A few sets to encourage discussion, feel free to discuss whether these could have any place within the metagame:

Slowbro @ Flame Orb
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Iron Defense
- Slack Off
- Trick

Flame Orb + Own Tempo ensure no Klefki hax, while tricking a burn orb onto Arceus and boosting defense is fairly doable. Then the extra defense can ensure it surviving other hits. Scald is mainly for damage, but Flamethrower also works a charm. Also burn ensures less foul play damage (iirc).

&

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Double-Edge
- Knock Off

This thing has more attack than adamant MegaRay. It OHKOs Klefki, PrimalDon, Darkrai, Ho-Oh, Yveltal and other common threats. It has a fair amount of bulk, and has a decent typing. It can OHKO a Kyogre on the switchin after rocks. Pair this with screens, and it's better than a lot of top tier threats.

 

[Trickster]

When is there ever a reason to use Marowak over Primal Groudon or even regular Groudon?

 

[Chloe]

When is there ever a reason to use Marowak over Primal Groudon or even regular Groudon?

Marowak has a higher attack stat after thick club bonus, also the fire weakness is negated if a team was severely weak to ground i guess. You have a very good point, I guess my hate for PDon just forces me to think up these obscure sets.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

A few sets to encourage discussion, feel free to discuss whether these could have any place within the metagame:

Slowbro @ Flame Orb
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Iron Defense
- Slack Off
- Trick

Flame Orb + Own Tempo ensure no Klefki hax, while tricking a burn orb onto Arceus and boosting defense is fairly doable. Then the extra defense can ensure it surviving other hits. Scald is mainly for damage, but Flamethrower also works a charm. Also burn ensures less foul play damage (iirc).

&

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Double-Edge
- Knock Off

This thing has more attack than adamant MegaRay. It OHKOs Klefki, PrimalDon, Darkrai, Ho-Oh, Yveltal and other common threats. It has a fair amount of bulk, and has a decent typing. It can OHKO a Kyogre on the switchin after rocks. Pair this with screens, and it's better than a lot of top tier threats.

No, YOUR own burn reduces FP damage; e.g. if Klefki is burnt then FP damage 1/2. IDK why you need a Flame Orb because Foul Play does very little damage. Besides, Iron Defense sort of implies that that thing is going to sit around for a long time... doing what exactly? All it can do is Trick, spam Scald, then Slack Off occasionally.

 

[Chloe]

No, YOUR own burn reduces FP damage; e.g. if Klefki is burnt then FP damage 1/2. IDK why you need a Flame Orb because Foul Play does very little damage. Besides, Iron Defense sort of implies that that thing is going to sit around for a long time... doing what exactly? All it can do is Trick, spam Scald, then Slack Off occasionally.

Flame Orb is needed to ensure no paralysis, because sometimes even that is too much. The possibility of the FP doing half was a bonus (which doesn't work, so don't worry). It's going to stall out EKiller and such with Iron Defense + Burn and Slack Off. That shouldn't be too hard to comprehend.

It feels like you skipped all of the paragraph and just looked at the last line.