Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139

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First of all, I'd like to make an argument for Breloom to move up, but AM said we shouldn't discuss lower rankings, so unless specified I'll discuss Mega Slowbro.

So I've used Mega Slowbro a lot. The thing about Mega Slowbro is that it's difficult to build around, but it's simply amazing when it manages to set up. It has 180 defence, the highest defence in OU bar Mega Aggron. And when this thing sets up to +6 it's almost impossible to stop, if you got SRs up to break Sturdy what does break it? Ferrothorns power whip barely does 40%. But what truly makes Mega Slowbro shine is that it can bypass all of its problems. Thunder wave Calm mind, a set that is in my opinion the strongest one in the current metagame. Handling Weavile excellently, easily escaping the 2HKO from 65BP Knock off. What it does is cripple switch in. Since this thing is almost impossible to stop when it sets up, your opponent is probe to hard switching into their Gengar/Serperior/sceptile/beedril/hydreigon/Volcarona/Venusaur/Breloom to handle it. But with T-wave you can switch out and when you get another chance you can get of two calm minds before they can attack, you're also less pressured as you can Slack off before them.

If not running T-wave there are other options. Iron defence lets you set up on Altaria, Charizard, Ferrothorn, Breloom, Beedril and Scizor, eliminating them as checks.

Resttalk lets you best two things, status and opposing Mega Slowbros. With resttalk you increase your life spam, you can put yourself to sleep and refrain from using Sleep talk to outstall the likes of slack of Mega slowbro. You also status users with ease.

Psyshock lets you beat Suicune, CM Keldeo and toxicroack. It also lets you catch almost all of your swotch ins for good damage, coming of 130 special attack psyshock hurts.

Slack of three attacks lets you break balance with ease while still checking Weavile, Landorus-Therian, Scizor, Dragonite, Tornadous-Therian(shaky), Altaria and Excadrill.

Only really consistent counter to this thing is CM unaware clefable
I feel like I made a pretty good argument for Mega Slowbro to go up, any reason why it didn't see any discussion?
 
I feel like I made a pretty good argument for Mega Slowbro to go up, any reason why it didn't see any discussion?
Well for one i think the timing is wrong. Hoopa-u just got released into the tier and Mega Slowbro, even more than its normal form due to its loss of regenerator and therefore the ability to pivot in and out, is basicly the definition of hoopa bait. Ohkoed by LO Dark Pulse and scald does just about 25-30%. Depending on Hoopas presence on the meta Slowbro might end up going down instead of up.

Mega Slowbros most common set, CM/Slack off with any version it might have, is really easy to beat. Toxic is all it takes to prevent it from going wild with calm mind. With Resttalk you can avoid that but as a Resttalk user you face competition from Suicune who does the job just as well and doesn't take up the mega slot. Not to mention that Resttalk in itself is kinda inconsistent, kills momentum and basically removes the ability to use Slowbro in normal form as a pivot because you can't heal that easily without slack off.
 

WhiteQueen

the queen bee
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Can I nominate Serperior for A+ again? With a simple Assault Vest set (see below), it's capable of switching in and decimating some really powerful threats in tier. It's really easy to get off a Leaf Storm and then proceed to sweep because of Pokemon like Manaphy, Keldeo, Rotom-W, Hippowdon, Slowbro, Diancie, etc. all over the place. With the bulk Assault Vest provides, it can easily tank hits from Raikou and other special attacks too. A Pokemon that gives your team an instant win condition WITHOUT having to set up is too good to be just A-

Serperior @ Assault Vest
Timid Nature
252 Sp.Attk/252 Speed
---
Leaf Storm
Dragon Pulse
Hidden Power Rock
Giga Drain / Knock Off
 

Srn

Water (Spirytus - 96%)
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OUPL Champion
Can I nominate Serperior for A+ again? With a simple Assault Vest set (see below), it's capable of switching in and decimating some really powerful threats in tier. It's really easy to get off a Leaf Storm and then proceed to sweep because of Pokemon like Manaphy, Keldeo, Rotom-W, Hippowdon, Slowbro, Diancie, etc. all over the place. With the bulk Assault Vest provides, it can easily tank hits from Raikou and other special attacks too. A Pokemon that gives your team an instant win condition WITHOUT having to set up is too good to be just A-

Serperior @ Assault Vest
Timid Nature
252 Sp.Attk/252 Speed
---
Leaf Storm
Dragon Pulse
Hidden Power Rock
Giga Drain / Knock Off
Serp is rly good and pairs well with big threats (like char-x) but the set (which i've never considered wow) doesn't solve the problems it has.
I think there's two main reasons why serp should stay A-

1. Lots of checks and revenge killers
2. Limited movepool.

Yeah, both are nothing team support can't solve, but hear me out.
In the tier, every kind of playstyle has several options to check, revenge kill, and just plain handle it. There's sd/bulky talon, weavile, torn-t, mega pidgeot, mega aerodactyl, mega manectric, heatran, mega venusaur, amoonguss, if you're running hp rock there's ferrothorn and scizor, if hp fire there's char-y, and there's a bunch of scarfers and other fast shit like mega lopunny or mega zam that can pick it off if serp is weakened.

Of course, it has ways to get around some of these, like glare, or some unique hidden powers, like ground, but ultimately a lot of these pokemon will have you covered against opposing serp.

As for limited movepool, I'm sure we don't have to talk much about it. Leaf storm, dragon pulse, and a hidden power is all serp gets to work with, and that's quite shitty. I won't deny that it has TONS of utility moves like screens, taunt, glare, and leech seed but you only get to use 1 (2 if you forego dragon pulse which isn't as bad of an option as i thought). You can use partners to pressure the things its movepool doesn't hit but either way, serp has its work cut out for it.
 

moods

Banned deucer.
one great thing about serperior is its ability to para most of it checks with glare, allowing it to beat them after time/other mons to sweep
 

WhiteQueen

the queen bee
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Pair Serperior with Slowbro and Magnezone (or a more offensive Charizard X and Manaphy) and you have yourself a really solid core to build around. Serperior is extremely easy to support. Unless Serp's low on health, Mega Manectric can't really revenge kill it with an Assault Vest attached. I wish some of my replays were still saved to show how deadly Serperior is.
 
Ok, before I counter your arguments, I would like you to know that I was once adamantly supportive of a Manaphy rise but convinced otherwise so I understand your arguments, and I hope I'm not too harsh.

I'm going to make 2 posts in 1 day which is really unusual for me, usually it is 1 post a month lol.

Oh how deep this topic is. Manaphy's movepool is huge, having a wide selection of coverage. First off is water STAB. STAB is always important on a Pokemon, and Manaphy generally has two options to go when it comes to it. Scald and Surf, Scald usually being used for its 100% 30% burn chance, while still having a good base power at 80. Surf can also be used for securing more crucial KO's, none that I can think of off the top of my head, but the extra power is nice. Secondly, we have set up. Not that this is relevant, but it could be interesting to note that all of the S rank Pokemon have some sort of set up and there are sets that use them. Manaphy has access to Tail Glow and Calm Mind. Tail Glow is an amazing set up move, giving the user +3 in special attack every time used which is ridiculous. One of Manaphy's moves coming off a +3 special attack is going to hurt. Calm Mind can also be used on perhaps bulkier Manaphy sets, giving it a better chance to set up. And after a boost or two, an attack is still going to leave a dent. Not as much as a Tail Glow boosted, but you also receive a bit more bulk. In most cases, the first two move slots are staples on Manaphy, but don't have to be. But in this case, I am referring to the last two slots as "fillers". These can consist of Rain Dance, Ice Beam, Energy Ball, Hidden Power Fire, Psychic, Rest, Shadow Ball, Skill Swap, and Heart Swap. Since talking about all of these will make this extremely long, I will hide them.
As far as this goes, yes Manaphy has a (sort of) expansive movepool. What you need to factor in, is what it can fit onto one set. Manaphy's best set it TG + 3 attacks. Out of your three coverage options, you have your obligatory Water STAB, usually Ice Beam, and HP Fire. See any problems? Yes, you can't hit Mega Venusaur because it can tank a +6 Ice Beam from full.
Calcs:
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 174-206 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 258-306 (71.4 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 280-330 (76.9 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Manaphy doesn't even net a guaranteed 2HKO on Mega Venusaur, so it can switch in on the TG and gain enough health back on the Giga Drain in order to live another. It can even live a +6 Ice Beam and cripple Manaphy, leaving it to be picked off by another teammate. So, suppose you give up Ice Beam to run Psychic. Then you have nothing to hit the latis. If you give up HP Fire, then Ferrothorn walls you and can cripple you.
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 156-184 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 122-144 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So in this case, at least something walls Manaphy on Balance/Stall. This isn't even counting Chansey, which can cripple you with Thunder Wave/Toxic as it lives even a +6 Surf. As far as the RD sets, or the CM sets, all they do is sacrifice Coverage for Bulk, meaning Manaphy can break even less things. They literally just remove moveslots of coverage from Manaphy while it already is almost short of it. Tail Glow is the only set Manaphy really needs.

Manaphy has decent defenses believe it or not. 100/100/100 is nothing to laugh at. Along with a pretty good defensive typing in Water, Manaphy will be sponging (hah no pun intended) hits allowing it to set up easier. The well known Tail Glow + Rain Dance set runs a bit of bulk allowing Manaphy eat up more hits than it normally would. This can be crucial in some cases, and not all Pokemon have the option to do this. The Calm Mind set is very usable, and effective. It runs 240 HP/252 Defense making Manaphy as bulky as possible while it sets up Calm Minds. With almost infinite recovery and status healing, Manaphy is the perfect stall breaker. Some other precautions can be ran for situations, but these will most likely be covered in the "items" section. I will leave you with some calcs that can be helpful. (I will only be using the CM set for the sake of me needing food)
The main thing about Manaphy's Bulk, is that it goes away while Manaphy sets up. Manaphy can't force switches because its attacks without boosting are piss-weak. Nothing fears an unboosted Scald, and will continue to hurt Manaphy as it sets up. Once Manaphy's bulk is compromised, it is super easily to revenge kill with faster threats. This is the main reason why Manaphy's "amazing" 100/100/100 bulk means nothing. Also, all of the calcs you posted are of Manaphy's absolute bulkiest and least viable set.

Team support? Nah. If you think about it, the more you go up on the viability, the less and less team support each Pokemon needs. When you get to S rank, it is usually at the lowest. Manaphy however, needs very little team support if any. It is match up based, but so is all of Pokemon. If your opponent is running Ferrothorn for their Manaphy check and you have HP Fire, Manaphy is 6-0ing the team by itself. You rarely see a Pokemon that can 6-0 teams by itself that are prepared for it. But honestly, TG + RD runs through stall by itself, with the only real answer being Unaware Clef, which still has trouble with Scald burns/Surf always being possible. If you look at the checks compendium, you will see Kyurem-B, Raikou, and Gyarados being listed as GSI (Guaranteed Switch Ins) though not a single one of them are able to switch in to a neutral +3 coverage move. So what I am trying to say in this part of my argument is basically Manaphy requires less team support than other S rank Pokemon in some cases and it can just win depending on match up.
As you said, Manaphy's team support depends on the matchup. It is a well known fact, that Manaphy is deadweight against offensive teams, because it is outspeed and 2HKO'ed by a ton of major offensive threats, and it needs a turn to set up. Against balance and stall, Manaphy is still very effective and requires little team support. I already proved above how it is unable to break every single stall mon because of its limited coverage and moveslots. What it really needs is a set-up opportunity. Stall carries phasers such as Quagsire (haze) and Skarmory (Whirlwind) which can stop Manaphy's sweep. TrickScarf Gothitelle is also a problem as it can trick Manaphy a scarf while it is boosting. Manaphy requires team support to remove these threats, as well as team support to remove faster threats on balance/bulky offense, because it is super easy to stop from sweeping.

This is the last part of my long argument, and is basically where I talk about the sets a bit more and put in anything else I forgot to talk about. So not only is Manaphy's movepool large, but so are the options of items it can run. Lefties is probably the most common for all of the sets, giving it passive recovery to prolong its stay on the field, which is something megas do not have access to I might add. Another very viable item is a Wacan Berry. So let me put you in a scenario. You have a TG up, just took out one of your opponent's Pokemon and there last check to Manaphy is an electric type such as Manectric, Raikou, Thundurus, Magnezone, etc. Wacan Berry allows you to take one of there electric STABS and kill it in return, leading to a win. So an item allows Manaphy to take off most Pokemon of one type off of the checks list, if played right. This is a huge difference. There are three more items Manaphy can run effectively to my knowledge. The next one is a Lum Berry. This is ran on non Rain Dance sets, and lets Manaphy bait the opponent in to going for a Twave or Spore or something to cripple Manaphy. You can then fire back a move to kill the mon or if you outspeed set up a TG then kill them. Life Orb is an option, but not very used. It adds power to Manaphy's hits, but severely limits the length of Manaphy in a battle. The final option is a Salac Berry. Salac Berry allows Manaphy to outspeed a lot of its checks after getting low in health. But does make it subject to priority. One thing I would like to add cause I forgot to put it anywhere else. Manaphy has a pretty great speed tier when considering the bulk that it has, it can outspeed a lot of things in the OU tier though not having the "magic" 110 speed.
Well, items don't actually add much to Manaphy's viability except for the Wacan berry, although a +3 Surf may not kill an offensive electric type, and the fact that electric attacks generally still do 50-60% through the Wacan Berry, which is no good if Manaphy is weakened as it would be over the course of a battle. Manaphy's speed is actually what makes it unviable. It is unable to outpeed key threats which allows it to be easily revenge killed its sweep to be stopped.

Some stuff I'll add:
Manaphy is a great mon, there is no doubt about that. It just doesn't dominate the metagame with its lacking stats, specifically its below par speed for its role, and its requirement to waste turns boosting. The combination of its low speed and its requirement to boost before actually being able to do anything are a real detriment to its viability.
 
I sort of feel like the A+ rank has grown too big. It has kind of been the general rank for pokemon that are good but not metagame defining for a while and I feel like they don't all really belong there anymore. There has been some talk about moving up Manaphy, and I think this is a perfect manifestation of the problem. Nobody can really justify Manaphy being as amazing as Clefable (or at least that is my opinion) but it's definitely a hell of a lot more impactful than Gengar or something. I think as a community we use the "A+" ranking too freely and should move some down.

Here are some of my suggestions:

--> A
Simply put: the advent of Starmie has made the rapid spin support less amazing. I have seen a lot less of this thing because so many people run Starmie or other similar mons instead of Excadrill. The power of a sand cleaner is still good, but is being hurt by an increase in regular Gyarados, Mega Scizor, and Mega Alakazam. I don't feel there is that much to say here because I feel Excadrill is obviously not as good as it once was in gen 6.
--> A
Now don't get me wrong Gengar is an amazing pokemon but his defensive capabilities are pretty much limited to being immune to ground and resisting fairy, so I feel that a drop is somewhat justified. Life Orb Gengar is an offensive monster, but I just don't see it all that often and with the popularity of stuff like Mega Scizor, Serperior, or Tornadus Therian (or the brand new Scarf Hoopa-U) to revenge kill it I think it has lost some of the destruction factor it had a few months ago. It also just isn't strong enough to wipe things off the map with just life orb neutral moves which really can be a pain (especially shadow ball.) The defensive set I feel can be really good, but is also such a niche thing that only belongs on stall teams, and even then feels a bit redundant with Sableye.
--> A
I feel like the effectiveness of Sableye is significantly based off of how competent your opponent is. Sure it will destroy people on the low ladder, but I don't really see Sableye destroying really good players very easily. It is super easy to lure out and take advantage of through double switches (think Ferrothorn, Skarmory, etc.) I feel like Sableye is still riding off the initial hype of it looking really good on paper (remember when people wanted it banned?) but it's bulk is not unbeatable and fairy type is pretty common if you haven't heard so the weakness nips it in the ass. Also, people tend to forget that despite having some nice immunities, it has few useful resistances. Not resisting ground, fire, water, or electric really hurts when you are trying to be a wall in OU. I also see sableye on stall... and like there are other options. Sableye doesn't have the blanket check power of Venusaur or Slowbro. Honestly after writing this I almost feel like Sableye deserves A-, but I feel that's a bit radica plus I might be a tad biased by now.


That's all, thanks for reading.


fuck i missed this game
 
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SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
Manaphy is one of the worst pokemon in A+ at the moment and there is no way this overrated pokemon deserves to go to S, especially not if Keldeo is not even in S rank. The amount of pokemon that can switch in against most of Manaphy's sets are neither gimmicky nor hard to find a spot for on your team. Breaking stall or balance sounds nice until you realise simple cores like Unaware Clefable + Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur + Raikou and Chansey + Amoonguss can get around Manaphy quite easily and it's not like you only use these pokemon for Manaphy. Even when considering all weird stuff like HP Fire and Lum Berry, there are a few very solid switchins in Kyurem-B, Raikou, Clefable and Mega Latias and good checks in Lati@s, Thundurus, Serperior, Mega Altaria etc.
Biggest problem with Manaphy is that it fails to 2hko stuff before it gets to use Tail Glow. Its bulk is not bad, but if it really wants to sweep it has to come in against a pokemon that can't really hurt it (for example Hippowdon or Heatran) otherwise you get crippled a lot by whatever move you will have to take and with 100 base speed it is not that difficult to finish it off after being weakened. It doesn't threaten offense compared to the other water types in A+ (mgyara, azu, keldeo) since you only get to +3 and have enough health left to kill a pokemon against offense when the opponent sacs all his Manaphy revengekillers or make another bad play.
Scalds burn ratio is a bad counterargument for saying it's not deadweight against offense because the 70% of the time you don't burn Kyurem-B, you just gave one of the biggest wallbreakers in OU a free switch in (same applies to stuff like Mega Gyarados) A+ is fine for it but if pokemon like Mega Sableye and Thundurus are nominated to drop to A, you might wanna look at Manaphy first to go to A.
 
Agreeing with asterat that A+ is huge atm, but not really agreeing with the noms made. Excadrill is a really good mon, able to damage HO teams alot. It doesn't need much support, needing just TTar/Hippo and something that deals with bulky stuff it can't break. Also the SD set is very underated, making it able to beat some of it's defensive checks. I see no reason for it to drop, especially since Hoopa has made the meta a bit more offensive, which Exca likes. I do agree that non sand rush variants are kinda poor in this meta though, and Starmie is a better spinner, although the reason behind using Exca is not really to spin anymore, but to kill stuff in sand.

Gengar offers a great defensive typing, being immune to ground, fighting and normal (although normal doesn't mean much other than walling SD Diggersby), as well as a fairy resist allows it alot of oppertunity to get in, and is a menace once it's in. Even with a pursuit weakness ir still beats the most common pursuit users (TTar and Bish) unless they're scarfed with focus blast (if it hits). While it hates Hoopa arriving, seeing stall decline which Gengar had a fab matchup against, being immune to toxic and usually running taunt to stallbreak even better, I still don't see why it would drop.

As for MSab, I could see it dropping but in the hands of a competant player can be really hard to face. Having prankster WoW and healing before mega evolving makes it annoying to offensive teams, while it has magic bounce to make it threatening to defensive teams. It's very annoying to face in general, although I may be a little biased as my main team has a bad matchup V it, although it's certainly one of the weaker A+'s.

On A+ mon I do think should drop though is Diancie. It needs protect to Mega evolve, and if it lacks it begins to lose matchups to stuff that normally lose to it due to low speed before evolving and poor bulk after it, worsened further by the fact lacking power gem and play rough force it to go mixed and run a -SpD/def nature. This really harms it, as it misses out on RP, CM or coverage, which it would really love to break though stuff like Ferro which beat it uunless it carries HP Fire, or it could clean offense with RP, but instead has to run a subpar move to reliably mega. Also, it has dreadful matchup V SR setters, with Hippo, Ferro, Iron Head Skarm, and some Lando-T and Chomp builds beating it, although the latter nearly die in the process. It's also foced ti protect V those, so they can switch to another mon to beat it so they can get rocks up with no issue. It also can't switch in to bounce an SR back mid game, as they all KO it. It's powerful and can damage alot, but is highly suppar compared to the rest of A+, and even though my team has no real solid answer to it, it rarely gets more than one KO a game whenI see one. It's better V stall though, due tomagic bounce and good mixed attacking stats, although it's not that hard for stall teams to beat, and they're on the decline anyway.

Points in short: Diancie to A as it often fails to block SR due to losing to many SR users, isn't hard fot stall to wall, is forced to run protect to MEvo, missing out on coverage/setup move, and requires good prediction to get multiple kills per game V offense in my experience. It's not on par with the rest of A+.
 
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Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
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Zam traces Sand Rush and outspeeds Exca and just bops it, plus then it's at simply insane speed so if your primary way of dealing with it is a scarfer then you're gonna struggle to stop it
 

Adaam

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Agreeing with asterat that A+ is huge atm, but not really agreeing with the noms made. Excadrill is a really good mon, able to damage HO teams alot, and IDK why you think MegaZam is an issue for it, it outspeeds and kills ounder sand.
Zam traces Sand Rush and outspeeds

Edit: got ninjad rip

Bummer Edit: Please avoid quoting whole posts when you only reply to a particular part of it.
 
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I'm probably not going to contribute much to what has been said already, so I'm just going to say what many people are already saying as further support for their opinion: Hoopa Unbound for A+. Its lackluster speed and generally low defense necessitates the use of a Choice Scarf for it to really be able to compete with many of the faster threats in the tier, thus preventing it from meriting S rank. However, once it is juxtaposed with the Pokémon in A+, one can see that its great offensive stats, coverage, and specially defensive side allow it to be on par with, if not better than, many of the Pokémon in the rank. I support the placement of Hoopa-U in A+.
 
This is my first time posting, but I've been a lurker for a while. :)

Hoopa-Unbound is a great Pokemon, but there is no way it can move up to S for two reasons: its mediocre speed and awful Defense. The thing is even 2HKO'd by an Earthquake from an entirely defensive Hippowdon. However, it's still a great Pokemon with an incredible amount of versatility. A+

Three Pokemon that stand out to me that (IMO) should be dropped are Mega-Diancie, Mega-Sableye, and Rotom-Wash.

Mega Diancie A+ -> A M-Diancie is pretty good, but it's absolutely ravaged by an awful 4x weakness to Steel types, as well as often having to waste one move slot for Protect in order to safely evolve. In terms of sheer power as a Fairy, Mega-Gardevoir is significantly stronger thanks to a slightly higher SpA stat and its Pixilate ability. Mega-Diancie's high defensive stats are hugely inundated by its terrible HP stat. Its Rock typing allows it fantastic ammunition to top-threats such as Talonflame and Charizard-X, but it grants it weaknesses to too many common types (Ground, Water, Grass, and Steel). It's a good Pokemon that can absolutely shine, but it doesn't deserve to be in the same rank as the others. I support it going down to A.

Mega Sableye (A+ -> A) dominated the format for a few months, but that is no longer the case, and it's clear as day that it has no business being ranked A+. Not only is it absolutely savaged by Mega-Gardevoir, Clefable, Mega-Diancie, Mega-Altaria, and Sylveon...it can barely do anything back to them. The Pokemon in the A+ category have something to hit back against Pokemon they are weak to, but Mega-Sableye just stops dead in its tracks. Once it's evolved into M-Sableye, it becomes slightly less fearsome for physical attackers to attack as they know they will (most likely) hit first and not have to worry about getting burned before they're struck by a WoW. I don't think it has any business being in A+. Bump it down to A.

Rotom-Wash A- -> B+
Fantastic typing coupled with an amazingly beneficial ability can only go so much. For a bulky Pokemon, it has awful HP, and no solid form of recovery. Pain Split can be used against the player if the opponent knows how to battle well. It's just not a reliable form of recovery, and Rotom-W is more of a nuisance than it is a threat in the current metagame. Sad, but true. It's also perfect to be taken advantage of by Serperior. It can't hit very hard, and it's easy for opponents to Sub and start boosting their stats. Personally, the current environment has not been kind to Rotom-W, and it's far too predictable. Bump it down to B+.

 
Mega Diancie A+ -> A: Disagree, Mega Diancie still a good offensive mon, being the best mixed sweeper at the moment mega diancie can fit so many roles in a team: 160/160 offensive stats with two good stabs moves is awesome, she can 2KO a lot of things working well as a balanced breaker, using HP fire or earth power as her's counters are reduced since jirachi, heatran, empoleon and some other mons dislike switching into earth power, Ferro and Scizor have trouble switchng into Hp fire(offensive scizor can't switch into diamond storm too), magic bounce also helps a lot since become easer to stall-break, if your team have problem with stall diancie helps a lot. 50/110/110 bulk isn' that bad you can survive one hit from a lot of attackers and hit back, winning a lot of 1x1 scenarios(mega man, latios, thundurus, gengar, mega alakazam etc...). also mega diancie can run RP to beat HO easier and CM or Sharpen to beat Stall easier.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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I completely disagree with the Diancie nom. It is still very dominant, not much about the meta has changed against its favor (it is a great Hoopa check due to its neutrality to Gunk Shot, for example), magic bounce is so good and provides a buffer v.s. T-Wave/Glare (this is a big part of why Jirachi uses Body Slam>Thunder Wave as standard), its mixed offenses are glorious (160/160/110 offensive stats are nothing to scoff at), its defenses are good enough to take a hit or two if it needs to (its lackluster HP is somewhat accounted for by its good 110/110 defenses). I don't get what all of this crap about it needing to protect to m-evo is about. Even though its speed pre-mega is disappointing, its offenses are plenty good enough to allow it to m-evolve on a chunk of the tier, and its not as if it can't take a hit if it has to. Due to my playstyle, I personally find Protect a bit of a liability on it due to it taking the slot of a fourth attack (usually HP Fire, but its movepool is pretty good - giving it access to moves such as Heal Bell, Calm Mind, Rock Polish, SR, Magnet Rise, Toxic and Sharpen), using it kills momentum and can be very easily punished by a misprediction. It is one of those 'mons that thrives on a lot of the current metagame trends, namely the omnipresence of Hoopa-U, its ability to check certain aspects of bulky offense and its ability to completely block the use of Stealth Rock from anything other than Mold Breaker Excadrill (which it shouldn't be coming in on anyway). It can act as an emergency check to Bisharp if it comes in on a faint/slow U-turn/Healing Wish due to outpacing it, resisting Sucker Punch and OHKOing Earth Power if it isn't AV (which it still takes a big chunk out of), it counters Talonflame, it c***blocks non-Iron Head Skarmory and can threaten it out with a potential HP Fire/hit it with Earth Power while it roosts... the list goes on. Its typing and ability in combination allow it to act as a check to a large portion of the tier, and it is still as, if not more, potent than it was pre-hoopa due to this and its great stat spread.

People tend to downplay the use of delaying its mega evolution too. While not great, it isn't completely useless pre-mega, being able to utilise its extra bulk in certain, very specific scenarios. For example, it can wait a turn to mega evolve v.s. something like an 80% Hippowdon to take an Earthquake (which OHKOs Mega Diancie but only 2HKOs its base form) while dissuading the use of Whirlwind or Stealth Rock due to the threat of Magic Bounce and 2HKOing with a base Moonblast followed by a mega Moonblast (this combination has a 100% chance of 2HKOing from 83.8% or lower v.s. mixed defensive Hippo) - which also gives it its speed boost for free. Its uses are specific, but it can pull its weight if the situation deems it necessary. The thing about Mega Diancie is that it is deceptively unexplored. The main strategies surrounding it are still being developed in scraps, and I think that this potential combined with its perks in the current metagame (weighted towards the latter) are why it deserves to stay A+.
 
This is my first time posting, but I've been a lurker for a while. :)

Hoopa-Unbound is a great Pokemon, but there is no way it can move up to S for two reasons: its mediocre speed and awful Defense. The thing is even 2HKO'd by an Earthquake from an entirely defensive Hippowdon. However, it's still a great Pokemon with an incredible amount of versatility. A+

Three Pokemon that stand out to me that (IMO) should be dropped are Mega-Diancie, Mega-Sableye, and Rotom-Wash.

Mega Diancie A+ -> A M-Diancie is pretty good, but it's absolutely ravaged by an awful 4x weakness to Steel types, as well as often having to waste one move slot for Protect in order to safely evolve. In terms of sheer power as a Fairy, Mega-Gardevoir is significantly stronger thanks to a slightly higher SpA stat and its Pixilate ability. Mega-Diancie's high defensive stats are hugely inundated by its terrible HP stat. Its Rock typing allows it fantastic ammunition to top-threats such as Talonflame and Charizard-X, but it grants it weaknesses to too many common types (Ground, Water, Grass, and Steel). It's a good Pokemon that can absolutely shine, but it doesn't deserve to be in the same rank as the others. I support it going down to A.

Mega Sableye (A+ -> A) dominated the format for a few months, but that is no longer the case, and it's clear as day that it has no business being ranked A+. Not only is it absolutely savaged by Mega-Gardevoir, Clefable, Mega-Diancie, Mega-Altaria, and Sylveon...it can barely do anything back to them. The Pokemon in the A+ category have something to hit back against Pokemon they are weak to, but Mega-Sableye just stops dead in its tracks. Once it's evolved into M-Sableye, it becomes slightly less fearsome for physical attackers to attack as they know they will (most likely) hit first and not have to worry about getting burned before they're struck by a WoW. I don't think it has any business being in A+. Bump it down to A.

Rotom-Wash A- -> B+
Fantastic typing coupled with an amazingly beneficial ability can only go so much. For a bulky Pokemon, it has awful HP, and no solid form of recovery. Pain Split can be used against the player if the opponent knows how to battle well. It's just not a reliable form of recovery, and Rotom-W is more of a nuisance than it is a threat in the current metagame. Sad, but true. It's also perfect to be taken advantage of by Serperior. It can't hit very hard, and it's easy for opponents to Sub and start boosting their stats. Personally, the current environment has not been kind to Rotom-W, and it's far too predictable. Bump it down to B+.
Hoopa-Unbound: Disagree, Hoopa-Unbound should probably drop to A. Those two reasons are supremely detrimental to Hoopa-U especially the speed portion because of the near reliance on Choice Scarf. Another problem not mentioned is its horrid typing making switching into anything that is not a weak special attack nearly impossible. It is also affected by all types of status which people don't seem to mention so burns and para are terrible for it. Also I feel like its "versatility" is overrated it can do the job of a walllbreaker well, maybe the best at it, but besides that I don't think it has another role. It can wallbreak on all sides of the spectrum but it still can just wallbreak unless you pass it speed or something.
Mega Diancie: Agree, basically because of how easy it is to revenge and wall to an extent and how it has to run protect as its first move 99% of the time so you get a free swap.
Mega Sableye: Disagree, pretty much just because of this things stupid synergy with shedinja making for some of the least fun play since baton pass.
Rotom-W: Neutral. Personally I feel it still walls too much to move down but I see things like Serperior creeping in ruining how useful it is. Still one of the more annoying things to see on an opponents team but then again so are Breloom and Scolipede.
 
Hoopa-Unbound: Disagree, Hoopa-Unbound should probably drop to A. Those two reasons are supremely detrimental to Hoopa-U especially the speed portion because of the near reliance on Choice Scarf. Another problem not mentioned is its horrid typing making switching into anything that is not a weak special attack nearly impossible. It is also affected by all types of status which people don't seem to mention so burns and para are terrible for it. Also I feel like its "versatility" is overrated it can do the job of a walllbreaker well, maybe the best at it, but besides that I don't think it has another role. It can wallbreak on all sides of the spectrum but it still can just wallbreak unless you pass it speed or something.
Mega Diancie: Agree, basically because of how easy it is to revenge and wall to an extent and how it has to run protect as its first move 99% of the time so you get a free swap.
Mega Sableye: Disagree, pretty much just because of this things stupid synergy with shedinja making for some of the least fun play since baton pass.
Rotom-W: Neutral. Personally I feel it still walls too much to move down but I see things like Serperior creeping in ruining how useful it is. Still one of the more annoying things to see on an opponents team but then again so are Breloom and Scolipede.
Hoopa-U has the raw power to afford relying on a Choice Scarf. You may have a mediocre speed tier, but when you have such amazing offenses and a strong movepool, its mediocre speed tier is not as unforgivable.

Hoopa-U also has an Assault Vest set (similar to AV KyuB during late XY) that can switch into a number of common special attackers and force them out if you desire Hoopa-U to do more than just wallbreak (though it does really want a Life Orb if it wants to wallbreak).

Hoopa-U's mediocre speed tier is being a bit exaggerated here anyways. Speed control is very easy to fit onto a team; think Thunder Wave Slowbro / Celebi, Sand Rush Excadrill, Talonflame, Thundurus.... there are a multitude of Pokemon that are fully capable of supporting Hoopa-U by dealing with its undesirable speed without much opportunity cost of running such speed control.
 

bludz

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Rotom-Wash's combination of typing, ability and utility make it simply too good for B+, in my opinion. I really have nothing else to say regarding that.

Mega Sableye I don't think should drop either. If there was a time to drop it was a month or two ago when fairies were running a little more rampant than they are now (plus Landorus being gone helps it). It's been increasing in usage lately and people are finally starting to use it on balance and semi-stall builds, which are the type of teams it really thrives on as opposed to full stall IMO.

Diancie I went over before but I'll reiterate. Just from a wallbreaking standpoint there are hardly any good switch-ins. Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn hate HP [Fire], Attack investment helps Diamond Storm smack specially defensive switch-ins and Moonblast hits insanely hard. Yeah it's simple to revenge in this meta because Scizor is everywhere and Azu is popular as well however it's still capable of doing massive damage. It's one of the best mixed attackers in the tier this side of Kyurem-Black and with a 110 base speed tier to boot. Yes, there has been a jump in popularity of some things above the 110 base speed tier. However, most of these mons that have become more popular recently fail to OHKO Diancie while it can OHKO in return. Alakazam (Diamond Storm), Weavile (any STAB), Torn-T (Diamond Storm) all lose to Mega Diancie 1v1 which means that their rise in popularity does not necessarily hinder its effectiveness as much as say the prevalence of Scizor. Just looking at A rank I don't see anything there that I would consider as big of a threat as Mega Diancie.

Hoopa-U is fine in A+ for now. It's barely been out for 2 weeks and it gets a kill in most matches meaning it's doing its job right.
 
Noctis Totalus Rotom-W already dropped for the reasons you stated. While I agree that Rotom-W is not as good as it once was, I really don't think it belongs in the same rank as Mega Gallade, Mamoswine, and Scolipede; as much as I don't want to admit it, Rotom-W still has it uses in the current metagame.
 
I agree with mega sableye drop, he isn't that bulky, he fails to tank a lot of mons(not only heavy wallbreakers like zard-y) and he can't just switch into spinners, sand rush excadrill, LO starmie, kabutops(in rain) mega blastoise 2OKO him, and tentacruel have acid spray, sp.def excadrill can use toxic.So you can safely switch only to scarf excadrill, defensive starmie, and forretres(someone use This?).

CM can switch into more physical attackers, but set-up is really hard, and things like clefable, zard-x, gardevoir, mega diancie and special wallbreakers that can take it with a +1 are everywere.

I know "your stall team need to have answers to your problems" but looks like that use something like mega venu will give your team less problems.

I know that magic bounce let you become an awesome stall-breaker, but is that enough to keep him in A+?
 
Pretty sure the only Excas that run Rapid Spin are Air Balloon and SpD, both of which Mega Sableye can switch in on with relative ease, Starmie is acceptable, Kabutops never spins in OU, iirc MegaToise runs Scald more often than Water Pulse or Hydro, so that's a safe switch in, Tentacruel is pretty uncommon atm, and you do know Magic Bounce bounces back Toxic right? Plus Mega Sableye isn't even really used as a spinblocker, it's more so a bonus.

Plus I'm pretty sure Mega Sableye is used to deal with more bulky balance teams and stall, as after a CM it becomes difficult for those teams to break through it, as Sableye can force PP wars with the likes of Clefable, which is suppose to be the counter. I wouldn't be opposed to a drop, but it seems like you are kind of misinformed on what Sableye really does.
 

TPP

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Pretty sure the only Excas that run Rapid Spin are Air Balloon and SpD, both of which Mega Sableye can switch in on with relative ease, Starmie is acceptable, Kabutops never spins in OU, iirc MegaToise runs Scald more often than Water Pulse or Hydro, so that's a safe switch in, Tentacruel is pretty uncommon atm, and you do know Magic Bounce bounces back Toxic right? Plus Mega Sableye isn't even really used as a spinblocker, it's more so a bonus.

Plus I'm pretty sure Mega Sableye is used to deal with more bulky balance teams and stall, as after a CM it becomes difficult for those teams to break through it, as Sableye can force PP wars with the likes of Clefable, which is suppose to be the counter. I wouldn't be opposed to a drop, but it seems like you are kind of misinformed on what Sableye really does.
Excadrill has Mold Breaker, so if it uses Toxic, it can get past Magic Bounce. Also, how does Sableye handle Clefable when it gets 2HKO'd by Moonblast (Unaware ignores Calm Mind). Otherwise Calm Mind Clefable sets also excel against it too.

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 136 SpD Mega Sableye: 156-186 (51.4 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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