ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M3 (READ POST #823)

[tmacbalanced]

Well, Venomoth can absorb toxic spikes, put stuff to sleep, quiver dance, hit with decent power, & it has weak bulk. It has problems with scarfers, can't switch in constantly due to stealth rocks, & it can't switch on hits due to weak bulk. It's speed is high enough so that it out-speeds Mega Aerodactyl after one quiver dance & it can knock it out with rocks up (Requires LO to do this though).
Venomoth does have some positives & some negatives, so maybe it should be C+ or B- rank.

 

[lllg17]

In my opinion, this is the only viable Venomoth set.

Venomoth @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain /Sludge Bomb

This set can put in some work. Options include trading in the life orb for a Lum berry to better break past Phys Porygon2 after two QDs, though it is recommended to pair Venomoth with a fighting type like Mienshao or Cobalion to take care of Porygon before attempting to sweep, as it basically hard walls it.
+2 252 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 160-189 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I can see Venomoth being solid B rank as it can sweep most of the metagame after a few QDs, but keeping it healthy can require some team support and breaking past it's checks usually requires one/two teammates named Mienshao or Cobalion. Sorry I'm on mobile will post more later.

 

[ehT]

I think Smeargle should be B-. While it has the best movepool ever, it can only fill one niche at a time. It either has to be a lead, which faces competition from Azelf and Forretress, or a Batone Passer with moves like Belly Drum and Calm Mind, but that isn't very good since Smeargle is slow and frail. But still, it has some other cool stuff like Spore and Dark Void that helps it, but it is complete Taunt bait also, so maybe it isn't so good. But I think it can be a solid B- mon.

I think Venomoth should also be B-. It is a cool Quiver Dancer thanks to Tinted Lens helping it hurt some of it's would-be checks and counters, but it fails to take strong physical hits, even resisted ones, and it can be outsped and revenged by any viable Scarfer ever at +1 that it should be this low. Also faces competition from Vivillon I guess, but those two are pretty different.

If Venomoth gets ranked, this should probably get ranked also. Vivillon has the power of Compundeyes to boost up Sleep Powder and Hurricane's accuracy, making it a viable Quiver Dance threat. But unlike Venomoth, without an Hidden Power it's walled by many things that resist Flying, like Steel types. It also has Energy Ball to hit Rock types, so I guess that's cool coverage. But it has a 4x Stealth Rock weakness, about as bad as defense as Venomoth, and it's also outsped by Scarfers. But Vivillon still has a few good points, and thus I believe it should be ranked, at C or at the highest B-.

Nominating Mega Houndoom for B/B+
Mega Houndoom is pretty decent right now. Bulky Psychics are on the rise, Blissey is falling in popularity, it's got a neat 115 speed stat and great special attack and a boosting move in Nasty Plot which helps it break down balance builds. it's also got a good STAB combination which is resisted by few. Other than dual STABS and Nasty Plot, it can have one more moveslot, which is open to prettty much anything. Flame Charge can be used to outspeed most Scarfers after a boost and helps it clean up easier. Protect can be used for a safe Mega evolution, or Destiny Bond can be used to take down an opponent trying to revenge it, although most things that try to revenge it are Scarfers who outspeed it. Mega Houndoom has some problems as well hindering it. It's sort of frail, and weaknesses to common Water and Fighting types are no easy issue to get past for it. But overall, Mega Houndoom is pretty nice at the moment, and imo definetely deserves a rise.

Also nominating Doublade for A
This thing is a beast right now, walling Fighting types, Flying types like Crobat, Fairy types, and even other stuff like Mega Beedrill, making it a really splashable mon on teams right now, being a great partner with stuff like Pangoro and Hydreigon. It can set up with Swords Dance and hit pretty hard, and it has priority Shadow Sneak to help pick off weakened foes and mitigate it's low speed. It can live almost any neutral hit due to it's bulk and can even live some non STAB SE hits. Doublade has some problems, though. It's special bulk, while passable with Eviolite, isn't anything to write home about, and without Eviolite, that special bulk is pretty bad. Weaknesses to common types like Fire and Ground doesn't help, and it has tough times against bulky waters like Suicune and Mega Swampert. But Doublade is such a good mon in this meta, due to it's unique typing and stats, and being a great partner with some of the biggest threats in UU definetely helps, overall Doublade is an awesome mon and deserves to move up.http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-253011446 (In this battle, Doublade helps by walling Reuniclus, and saves my butt by using Shadow Sneak to pick off Zoroark and Darmasnitan, winning me the match.)

^ Pulling these up for discussion.

Seconding the nomination for badass demon doggy. The meta's definitely shifted in its favour, despite UU's plethora of Water type threats, due to Mega Aero not being as dominant of a threat as it was a few months ago and Mega Pidgeot being banned. This means that UU offence is a lot more free to run other Megas without there being as great of an opportunity cost. Houndoom also has a dope speed tier, very threatening dual STAB's, and a very unpredictable fourth moveslot (I prefer Protect, since you get to scout potential revenge killers, as well as meme Scarf Shao, but you can also run Taunt, D-Bond, Will-o-Wisp, a Hidden Power, or even Pursuit or Sucker Punch), and good enough bulk, although this is offset by its lack of resists and common weaknesses. It also has great synergy with the common Fairies in the tier, particularly Slurpuff (as showcased in dodmen's Sample Team) and offensive Whimsicott, which both appreciate Houndoom's ability to roast Steel types. It also shines on VolTurn teams (although the crux of these teams is often Mega Beedrill, and you have to justify using Houndoge over him), since VolTurn cores can threaten and wear down the fat teams that Houndoom loves to shred. Particular mons that should be mentioned here are Rotom-C and Heliolisk, which threaten the bulky Waters that check Houndoom. VolTurn also lets Houndoom capitalise on teams that rely on 'mons such as Forry, Mandibuzz, Slowking, and Reuniclus to fulfill the role of bulky pivot. This can be particularly dangerous in the case of the latter two, since they often act as a win conditoon, as well. All in all, I think the qualities I listed above, as well as Houndoom's ever-important role as a balance breaker, the less overbearing presence of other Megas, and synergy with common offensive threats and archetypes should land Mega Houndoom in either B or B+ rank.

Also Suicune's S Rank again ABOUT FUCKING TIME OML

 

[YABO]

Venomoth is really good, like B+ at the lowest tbh. Nidoqueen has been so good for so long due to its ability to abuse Florges while being difficult to handle in its own right. I view Venomoth in a similar sort of way. By capitalizing on the passivity of Florges, Venomoth is able to consistently threaten any team carrying Florges by presenting a pokemon that has the potential to set up and win the game. It easily dismantles these teams with a set of QD, Roost, SP, Bug Buzz (others have told me that sub is good but I haven't tried it yet). Bug Buzz in combination with Tinted Lens severely limits Venomoth's traditional pool of checks. The list of pokemon that check it through resistance shrinks to stuff like Doublade, Crobat, Chandelure, and Cobalion. This small list is also easily punished with Sleep Powder in a similar way to how Serperior was a while ago. By forcing your opponent to potentially let his counter go to sleep, you output tremendous pressure each turn that Venomoth is on the field. There are plenty of mons that you can set up on with the threat of a bug buzz coming their way. Stuff like Florges risks getting set up on until you just win the game, things like Whimsicott just let you fire off strong Bug Buzzes uninhibited, Reuniclus is the same. Anything you outspeed is also set up on with sleep so the list extends to everything below base 90 speed and not holding a choice scarf. All you really need to remove is scarfers and priority and Venomoth finds an opportunity to sweep easily.

 

[Cheryl.]

I have gotten inspired to nom this pokemon after the Sneasel nomination, so here goes:

Scyther for C rank
I like Scyther, it's got good speed and high attack, and good bulk with Eviolite. It has a great boosting move in Swords Dance, so it can potentially sweep if all of it's checks and counters are weakened or dead. It also can use Choice Band to hit hard right off the bat, and it has U-Turn to pivot out. But Scyther isn't the greatest thing in the world, mostly because of that 4x SR weakness, making it mandotary to have hazard removal on Scyther's team, and it needs support to break through bulky Rock and Steel types. The 105 speed is good, but it can't outspeed some pokemon like Infernape and Azelf, so they can revenge it. But Scyther's typing can also help it, as it switches in easily on Grass and Fighting types, and it has a immunity to Ground type too. Overall, Scyther is a cool little thing that needs support to be at it's full potential, so I think it should be ranked, at C.

Sets for Scythaaaaaaa

Scyther @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aerial Ace
- U-Turn / Knock Off / Bug Bite
- Roost

Scyther @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVS: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Jolly Nature
- U-Turn
- Aerial Ace
- Knock Off
- Brick Break / Quick Attack

/Hide

 

[Omfuga]

quick update

Smeargle (Unranked to C)
Venomoth (Unranked to B+)
Suicune (A+ to S)
Mega Aerodactyl (S to A+)
Mega Houndoom (B- to B)
Mienshao (A+ to A)
Blastoise (C to B-)

Discussion points:

Doublade (A- to A)
Mega absol (B+ to B)
Qwilfish (B+ to B) - (don't have much experience w/ qwil)
Seismitoad (B+ to B)
Toxicroak (B+ to A-)
Jellicent (B to B+)
Braviary (C to unranked)

 

[Mar1onette]

If Venomoth gets ranked, this should probably get ranked also. Vivillon has the power of Compundeyes to boost up Sleep Powder and Hurricane's accuracy, making it a viable Quiver Dance threat. But unlike Venomoth, without an Hidden Power it's walled by many things that resist Flying, like Steel types. It also has Energy Ball to hit Rock types, so I guess that's cool coverage. But it has a 4x Stealth Rock weakness, about as bad as defense as Venomoth, and it's also outsped by Scarfers. But Vivillon still has a few good points, and thus I believe it should be ranked, at C or at the highest B-.

the problem i see with this is that, why should vivillon be ranked if it's almost if not completely out-classed by another quiver dancer? you can argue that it has hurricane and that it has compound eye's but tinted lens is an arguably a better ability. and why should venomoth, a pokemon that completely out-classes venomoth in most if not all ways be ranked the same as vivillon? vivillon carries no offensive presence as a quiver sweeper in this tier because its walled, checked, and simply out-classed by most of the meta unlike venomoth. also unlike vivillon who is forced to carry both hurricane and bug buzz (which is walled by steel types and both of the common rotom-forms etc), venomoth doesn't need to carry its dual STAB and has room for another move, because of tinted lens bug buzz threatening a lot of the tier; the preferred set right now that iv'e seen most effective is Quiver Dance/Sub/Sleep Powder/Bug Buzz, with this move set venomoth can hit most of the tier for good hard damage and when forced switches that can't take a tinted lens attack can take the opportunity to set up a sub and proceed from there. what iv'e stated so far are reason why venomoth out-classes vivillon and that it has no presence real presence in the tier especially with venomoth being dropped, who again completely out-classes vivillon as a quiver dance sweeper who isn't walled by the majority of the tier. i think vivillon should not be ranked for its lack of offensive presence as a quiver sweeper.

 

[Nightingales]

I'll say that I don't really agree with an Absol drop. It might be frail, but if it gets set up, it has access to one of the strongest priorities in the tier, can shut down slower physical sweepers, has ways to stop itself from being revenged with strong priority and outrunning most of the same tier Pidgeot did, and you can't status it because of Magic Bounce.

It's fine where it is, in my opinion.

(Probably not stating this well, I'm tired.)

 

[MZ]

Honestly, I think the main reason for Absol to drop is more the opportunity cost of not having a mega than anything else. I've been getting back into playing UU after sand died and Absol has performed really well. The mere presence of it on a team puts a lot more pressure on every hazard user and can make mons like Froslass have a really hard time doing their jobs. Fast+sucker is a great combo because, other than scarf mienshao, you're threatening basically every offensive mon, and it has some nice variety in its sets that make it even more difficult to take on. Like SD+sucker is obviously good, but you can switch between play rough and superpower, run fire blast or ice beam to hit shit like mence, forry and tangrowth, or try out SD+BP (less consistent imo but not that bad). I don't feel like it's gotten worse or any recent meta trends have really hurt it (things like scarfmence --> LO defog have actually helped it), it's more just that it stops you from running another mega, but there are plenty of high up megas and that shouldnt make it drop imo.

 

[Cactrune]

These are some interesting discussion points here. Some are more valid than others.

Doublade (A- to A)

Disagree

Doublade is incredible. It's bulky, it's powerful, and it wields insanely good coverage in Ghost STAB+Sacred Sword. However, these things are not enough for Doublade to really be A-rank material in my opinion, as there are still a lot of things holding it back. Common weaknesses to Ground, Fire, and Dark-type moves do hinder it, especially thanks to its mediocre Special Defense, which gives it a bunch of checks like Hydreigon, Entei, Nidoqueen, Krookodile, and Mega Blastoise, all of which are mainstays on every playstyle from HO to balance. However, Doublade can still power through some of these Pokemon if they've been worn down, but these Pokemon are not imo the biggest problem here. Doublade is incredibly vulnerable to Bulky Water-types like Swampert, Tentacruel, Alomomola, and the latest S-rank Pokemon, Suicune. All of these Pokemon don't take too much from Doublade's attacks, all while being able to easily retaliate against it with Scalds that hurt even more than usual considering its aforementioned low Special Bulk. On top of this, it only really has one viable set, and it's not good enough at it to make it ubiquitous. Can it check top threats in the metagame, like Slurpuff, Mienshao, and Mega Aerodactyl? Yes. Should it move up? No.

Mega absol (B+ to B)

Disagree

Look, Mega Absol is hard to use. It's frail, and can occasionally seem lacking in power. However, Absol is a more diverse and interesting Pokemon than you'd think. The very prospect of a +2 Absol leaves Offense teams quaking in fear because of the 50/50s that it forces. The prospect of taking either a Sucker Punch or Knock Off makes this Pokemon very difficult to revenge-kill, as only things like Scarf Mienshao can actually outspeed and take a Sucker Punch at the same time. Though Absol does still have some checks, mostly Physically Defensive Steel-types like Mega Aggron, Forretress, and the increasingly popular Cobalion, it can get around these Pokemon by either luring them with Fire Blast or running a surprisingly dangerous Baton Pass set, which could let you pass boosts to a threat like Entei. On top of this, Mega Absol is no slouch against stall because of the coveted Magic Bounce ability. I'm not really that into this Pokemon, but that doesn't mean that it should drop.

Qwilfish (B+ to B)

Disagree

What exactly changed that made Qwilfish worse? Did I not get the memo? In my opinion, this fish is as strong as it ever was, and it's very effective in a number of roles. It can lay down Spikes and Toxic Spikes, provide Thunder Wave support, and check a surprisingly long list of threats, including Entei, Mienshao, Cobalion, and (Physical) Infernape. Yeah, it has a few stumbling blocks, like its low Special Defense and tendency to be set up on by some Bulky Psychics, but these things have always been an issue for it. If we're going to make Tentacruel B+, I'd keep Qwilfish, a Pokemon that has always competed with it for a team slot and been better than Tentacruel at abusing its typing, at the same rank.

Seismitoad (B+ to B)

Agree

Seismitoad is a pretty cool Pokemon, and you look pretty cool using it, but I don't know if it's really that much better than Swampert. Seismitoad has Water Absorb and access to Knock Off over Swampert, and that is it. If you desperately need a Water-immunity on your team with the idea of beating Suicune or Slowking in mind, then this isn't even the Pokemon for you; Seismitoad has proven unable to beat Suicune in most situations. Seismitoad's 105/75/75 bulk may be solid, but Swampert has 100/90/90 bulk, and even more if you're running its Mega Form, which has 20 more in each of its defenses. Swampert can also use Roar if that's your type of thing. Honestly, Seismitoad can do very well on teams, but its niche is too specific for it to be B+ rank in this tier.

Toxicroak (B+ to A-)

On The Fence

I like Toxicroak a lot. It's one of the most interesting sweepers in the tier, if you want my opinion. Dry Skin means that it can't be stopped by Water-types spamming Scald, and it has a dangerous STAB combo that allows it to break through a number of defensive Pokemon in the right conditions. Sucker Punch can also be a godsend against more offensive teams, because it's Sucker Punch. However, Toxicroak is incredibly predictable. Unless you're running some kind of subpar Substitute set, Pokemon with status are likely to get the best of you if they predict the Sucker Punch. Doublade, Cresselia, and even SubCM Chandelure can set up on Toxicroak because they can dodge Sucker Punches, and even Jellicent, a Bulky-Water type, can Will-O-Wisp you if you predict right. Crobat and Mega Aero are still great, and Toxicroak has an odd speed tier to boot. Still, this is a good sweeper, and I want to know what everyone else thinks about it.

Jellicent (B to B+)

Agree

Damn straight. I'm just going to copy-paste an older post that gives my point of view. Not only does Jellicent work excellently against stall, but it can also fit on stall and bulky balance. Notably, it is one of the most reliable Reuniclus checks in the tier if you run Hex, and it can also check Suicune, Cresselia, Cobalion, Slowking, Snorlax, and other dangerous Pokemon. It's also usually a hard stop to bulky waters and miscellaneous passive stuff like Forretress and Florges. I highly recommend it if you're looking for a blanket check to some of the tier's most threatening Pokemon.

Braviary (C to unranked)

On the Fence

I don't know much about this one. It seems outclassed by Snorlax. It pains me to say it, but Big Linda can leave the list and I wouldn't really mind.

 

[-Tsunami-]

Nominating Porygon2 for S-Rank. Anyone who has had to go through the displeasure of facing Omfuga or any of the other devilish users that choose to use this monster among Pokemon knows just how good it is. Porygon2 tanks hits from a ridiculous amount of Pokemon rather easily; so easily in fact that it seems like it's immune to every type in the game.

252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 144-171 (38.5 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Look at this. Hydreigon Draco Meteor actually does 0 damage without any investment for Porygon2. That's actually beyond broken. You can't even set up on it because it has access to Toxic and Thunder Wave, which deal with the majority of threats in the metagame. Fighting attacks aren't even a threat.

252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 158-188 (42.2 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
This thing can literally beat a Cobalion 1 on 1 if it has Thunder Wave...like are you kidding me?

Porygon2 is even on the banner for this thread...granted, it's placed alongside 3 completely inferior Pokemon for no apparent reason. Porygon2 not being S-rank in this thread is the biggest travesty since Ninjask was ranked above Combusken back when Limitless was the tyrant holding this tier together. Let's not deceive the countless trainers preparing for the UU Open by making them believe Porygon2 is in the same class as Whimsicott. I know I'm tired of watching Omfuga beat people just by abusing this threat that no one seems to prepare for.

If for some reason you're still not convinced, watch this replay and tell me how Porygon2 isn't S-rank.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-78963
On turn 3, you can see Krausersaut outplay Omfuga and use Aura Sphere on his incoming Porygon2 switch. He was probably salivating at the thought of being able to 2HKO one of Omfuga's Pokemon and gain a massive advantage in the game. There was only one problem...

Blastoise used Aura Sphere!
It's super effective! The opposing Porygon2 lost 43.4% of its health!

IT TOOK 43.4%! Prediction isn't even enough to bring this monster down. Now, let's finally choose to provide some insight to the record number of players in the UU Open by moving Porygon2 to where it belongs. The poor souls who had their hearts feasted upon by this monstrous duck in Round 1 were casualties that could have been avoided. Let's prevent any further damage, shall we?

Molk EDIT: Mr Duck is brooen

 

[DaSpoofy]

Nominating Porygon2 for S-Rank. Anyone who has had to go through the displeasure of facing Omfuga or any of the other devilish users that choose to use this monster among Pokemon knows just how good it is. Porygon2 tanks hits from a ridiculous amount of Pokemon rather easily; so easily in fact that it seems like it's immune to every type in the game.
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 144-171 (38.5 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Look at this. Hydreigon Draco Meteor actually does 0 damage without any investment for Porygon2. That's actually beyond broken. You can't even set up on it because it has access to Toxic and Thunder Wave, which deal with the majority of threats in the metagame. Fighting attacks aren't even a threat.
252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 158-188 (42.2 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
This thing can literally beat a Cobalion 1 on 1 if it has Thunder Wave...like are you kidding me?

Porygon2 is even on the banner for this thread...granted, it's placed alongside 3 completely inferior Pokemon for no apparent reason. Porygon2 not being S-rank in this thread is the biggest travesty since Ninjask being ranked above Combusken back when Limitless was the tyrant holding this tier together. Let's not deceive the countless trainers preparing for the UU Open by making them believe Porygon2 is in the same class as Whimsicott. I know I'm tired of watching Omfuga beat people just by abusing this threat that no one seems to prepare for.

If for some reason you're still not convinced, watch this replay and tell me how Porygon2 isn't broken.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-78963
On turn 3, you can see Krausersaut outplay Omfuga and use Aura Sphere on his incoming Porygon2 switch. He was probably salivating at the thought of being able to 2HKO one of Omfuga's Pokemon and gain a massive advantage in the game. There was only one problem...
Blastoise used Aura Sphere!
It's super effective! The opposing Porygon2 lost 43.4% of its health!

IT TOOK 43.4%! Prediction isn't even enough to bring this monster down. Now, let's finally choose to provide some insight to the record number of players in the UU open by moving Porygon2 to where it belongs. The poor souls who had their hearts feasted upon by this monstrous duck in Round 1 were casualties that could have been avoided. Let's prevent any further damage, shall we?

LOL

This is probably the most overrated pokemon in UU. Why these tour players thinks its so godly I don't know. It has some very noticeable flaws.

• P2 is susceptible to status. The only way to independently get rid of status is psycho shift. Status makes 2hkos easy.
• P2 is susceptible to Knock Off. Eviolite is best item. Once it is gone, Porygon 2 is no longer a counter to common mons. Knock off is fairly common in UU.
• P2 only has one item. Can't run leftovers effectively making it worn down ez with hail, entry hazards, and volt turn.
• P2 is set-up bait. Reuni, Suicune, and Snorlax all set up effectively on P2 which can throw a game.
• Fighting types are very good in UU and are fairly common. They put a lot of pressure on P2. Forcing switches and giving away turns for your opponent.

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are almost flawless in the UnderUsed metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and almost always brings a high reward. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are more than made up for by numerous positive traits.

 

[Omfuga]

LOL

• P2 only has one item. Can't run leftovers effectively making it worn down ez with hail, entry hazards, and volt turn.

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are almost flawless in the UnderUsed metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and almost always brings a high reward. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are more than made up for by numerous positive traits.

As opposed to all the other S-rank pokemon which can run 2, and sometimes up to 3 items at a time

 

[Cased]

Being condescending doesn't make your argument stronger, Ryan.

 

[PDC]

thank god we have somebody willing to stand up to these vod maniacs, taking innocent children as hostage

i salute you, casedvictory

 

[Nightingales]

Being condescending doesn't make your argument stronger, Ryan.

But it makes it a lot funnier.

 

[lllg17]

I'm not sure if p2 is S rank material. It's not really on par with the other "S" ranks, but it can wall a significant amount of the meta game and spread status like it's nobody's business. It also is a pain in the ass, and despite what every body says, knock off isn't that common. Besides, the only times p2 would come in on a knock of user or stay in on one would be as a last ditch effort to cripple it with para or just plain sac a mon. P2 almost always gets at least one kill in the match whether that kill is gligar or salamence or tentacruel or whatever the f else. It also does a lot of other shit but I'm on mobile so f u omfuga. Just kidding. Keep it where it is imo

 

[Malin]

Doublade (A- to A) - AGREE !!

Doublade is insanely good in this meta. Tbh I've noticed Doublade increase in viability since M-Pidgeot test. He gives troubles to most balance and offense buildings since it's a blanket check for most physical attackers in this game, like physical Mence, M-Aero, M-Bee, Cobalion, Crobat, Heracross, Mienshao, Snorlax, M-Aboma, SLURPUFF !!! etc without being a passive mon by any means. It also checks and setup on passive things like Cresselia, Forretress or Fairies, since he doesn't care too much about T Waves and he laughs at Moonblasts.

I mean I noticed most of my effectives teams all have Doublade in it since he is so splashable and can actually work as a effective wincon late game. STAB Iron Head (imo much better than Gyro Ball) and STAB Shadow Sneak priority gives a great niche for this mon. While SD/Iron Head/Shadow Sneak/Sacred Sword is the most popular set, Doublade can afford to run Shadow Claw over Sacred Sword, specially if things like Krookodile isn't a problem, to hit bulky waters switch ins for more damage while dealing with things like Cress and Reuniclus better.

Doublade also can run things like Toxic over SD to punish switch ins, or even run a Rest Talk set which gives trouble to unprepared teams who thinks you only need to take chip damage from Doub until it's dead (right here I'm talking to myself bc i got bopped by a RestTalk Doublade some weeks ago ;_; )

So yes, I support Doublade to A rank.


Mega Absol (B+ to B) - Disagree

Tbh I think MegaSol is an underated mon and specially an underated mega in this meta. Dark types are great right now, and a Dark type with acess to a boosting move, priority, and a movepool filled with coverage moves is even better. While Sucker Punch would be an issue if your opp tries to use status moves or PP stall you in any way, it's actually neat since M-Absol have Magic Bounce, forcing it to attack anyway. Mega Absol frail defenses and no Magic Bounce until mega evolve makes it hard to switch it over a battle, but the moment it's in it's really hard to switch in this thing.

I think MegaSol has a lot of potential, while being better than others B ranked mons. While the "mega cost" argument could be brought, honestly I do not think any other Dark type does the same role MegaSol does, while no other Mega has access to a priority attack move, which gives Mega Absol a really cool niche that let it stay in B+ rank.



I don't have much to say about Seismitoad, Qwilfish or Jellicent, since I don't have much experience with those (yet I really want to try Qwilfish and Jellicent, seems two really cool mons). Toxicroak seems like he is still exactly the same, so I guess it could stay at B+. I've never seen Braviary so I guess it could be unranked, whatever.


Also do not overestimate P2 lol I guess non UU players getting into UU Open might not be aware of how effective P2 is, and while we all know this fuckin thing is borke in sense nothing OHKOs it unless your name is Heracross, he is not that juggernaut. DaSpoofy add Taunt and entry hazards to P2 weakness , SR + 1 lay of Spikes are enough to make it not available to come in a second time in a match, if you keep pressuring it (which you should).

 

[ehT]

I 100% agree with Jellicent for B+. This thing is godly versus stall and fat balance, and can practically solo unprepared teams that aren't running Whimsicott or something. Really the only support it needs to do work against those kinds of teams is Knock Off, since getting rid of Lefties / Black Sludge saves it a LOT of time. After that, though, with a fast spread (I like to run Timid + whatever EV investment it takes to reach 208 Speed, I forgot), Jellicent can outspeed and shut down pretty much every bulky setup mon under the sun with Taunt, wear them down with status, and shrug off any hits they want to throw at you, especially after you burn them. That means that no Suicune, no Reuniclus (without Shadow Ball), no Slowking, no Cresselia, no Snorlax, and no Doublade (with Will-o-Wisp) will be able to sweep you late game so long as Jellicent is alive. Basically, if you need an anti-win-con that can shut down most of UU's many slow, fat sweepers that isn't Whimsicott, while simultaneously shitting on stall, Jellicent is your man. The biggest drawback to it IMO is its limited PP.When I use it as my dedicated stallbreaker, I sometimes find it stalling itself out, if I'm not careful, when it's up against something like Florges, Snorlax, or Blissey. It's for this reason that I sometimes find myself considering Scald over Hex. While Scald might seem redundant with Will-o-Wisp, it's nice to not rely entirely on burn damage to wear down those aforementioned threats, whom you'd otherwise need to needlessly chew through your precious Taunt, Hex, or Recover PP against to pass the time as they slowly burn to death. A smart stall player will just switch over and over again until you're out of PP entirely. Scald also has much more PP than Hex, which allows you to spam it more freely, but it also greatly limits your damage output versus things that aren't Snorlax. Opting for Scald also allows you to fit Toxic onto your moveset, although this means you now have a 30% chance to burn instead of 85%. Shadow Ball is another option but LOL it's not Scald. That said, being conservative with PP is a small price to pay for the massive thorn Jellicent puts in the side of fat teams everywhere.

 

[YABO]

I'd say Toxicroak could rise. Suicune is quickly becoming the it mon of recent times due to its great ability to stop everything that has bee flavor of the month recently. In turn, Toxicroak inherently rises in viability. Furthermore a lot of the traditional Toxicroak checks like Crobat are falling off in popularity. (You can also ko bat at +2 after rocks so if you win sicker 50/50s you beat bat switching into you). Even slightly unorthodox sets like EQ Croak can be used to lure and beat Doublade, a very annoying thorn in its side. Overall, Toxicroak is as threatening as it has ever been. At the same time, the things it capitalizes on are more common and the things it loses to are falling by the wayside.

 

[Malin]

quick note: about a month ago we were discussing Slowking drop to A- rank and I think almost everyone (willing to discuss this ofc) agreed it should drop

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-uu-viability-ranking-thread-m3.3541343/page-7#post-6308703
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-uu-viability-ranking-thread-m3.3541343/page-7#post-6304833
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-uu-viability-ranking-thread-m3.3541343/page-6#post-6302149
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-uu-viability-ranking-thread-m3.3541343/page-6#post-6301268
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-uu-viability-ranking-thread-m3.3541343/page-6#post-6301187

posts about Slowking if any1 needs reasoning

 

[Max Carvalho]

What about a way more reasonable rise to A+ (P2)? I think among all defensive threats in A, P2 is usually the best to pick for sheer bulk, which most Balance teams looks for in a wall, and Pory2 provides that the best. Let's be honest, being able to switch in on Dm while not being a Fairy it's unreal. Set up sweeper that requires its speed to clean thru won't find a set up fodder in P2 as it has access to Yellow Magic. People tend to forget P2 has ok 105 SpA which can run a very powerful tank, doing lots of damage with a download boost. Being able to wall both physical and defensive threats with any defensive spread VERY effectively is quite an unique trait of Porygon. But really, it isn't as meta defining as any of the S-rank threats so far, although you must be able to deal with P2 somehow when teambuilding. Most flaws above me have already been mentioned. Tl ; DR P2 is one of the best picks for Balance, Fat Offense, Stall and even speedy Offensive teams that just wants a switch in to pretty much anything and P2 just fits for that. A is misleading due to some defensive threats being there and they not being on P2 caliber. A+.

 

[Wanka]

Some of the mons that are on discussion that I am more familiar with would probably be toxicroak and doublade.

Doublade: I think a bump to A is very possible because I like doublades ability to fit on multiple play styles and be effective on both. It serves as a nice win con for balance that also has a nice defensive typing and bulk with evio to tank a hit if necessary from offensive threats to balance. Provides STAB priority which is nice and with wish support that balance tends to carry via umby or flower it has the support around it to keep it healthy and try and neutralize its weakness of not having any passive recovery.

It also makes for a great mon on offensive teams as well. It helps break through mons like cresselia and porygon who pose to be huge threats for offense to try and break. It acts as a spin blocker who only beats one spinner though lol and it checks cobalion which can be annoying for offense to switch into. I can see a bump happening, but I wont be upset if it doesn't.

Frog: Croak is a really cool mon in the meta right now and with suicunes rise to the top again and mega stoises being more common then yama used to be in NU, I 100% support the bump to A-. It makes for a nice win con that has access to priority with SD and a 120 bp move that tends to be backed up with a life orb along with drain punch to not be too much of a glass cannon and retain good power. You see EQ floating around as well to hit probably croak's most common checks in doublade and with a little bit of chip damage an adamant +2 EQ can take it out doing about 80-90%. Fat mence is also a shaky check as well with +1 adamant Gunk doing 77% minimum so after rocks thats dead. Dry skin lets it find its way in a decent amount as well for a mon with not great bulk so it has something going for it on that side of the fence as well. A well played croak can be really effective in the meta and I think showing the frog some love wont do anybody any harm (:

Doom for B+ huehue:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-258304944 (whats stall?)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-258281390 (Broomed)

 

[Serperior for Uber]

Nominating Articuno for C rank

Articuno is a very good special wall with a good specially defenisve typing to deal with special attackers like Hydreigion and co. Furthermore, it has an extremely versatile moveset which includes defog,roost,heal bell, haze and more.Stab Freeze-dry is also a good attacking option even while uninvested and can stop the opponent from switching in at will. With Haze, it can also beat all slow set up sweepers like Reuncilus, Suicune and even Curselax. Another underrated aspect is that Articuno has access to pressure. This allows it to punish water types fishing for a scald burn or a Snorlax fishing for a para and in general can be a nuisance in general. Articuno on its own is definitely a very good specially defensive option with good typing and movepool.
But as you all know it's achilles heel is the fact that it is 4x weak to stealth rocks. However, this point overlooks the fact that Articuno can switch in and defog on any special attacking stealth rocker except irrelevant stuff like rocks mega camerupt. This includes Nidoqueen, Empoleon, Swampert, and more. In a situation where Articuno never switches into rocks its weakness to rocks is effectively null. All this said, you probably need to run double hazard control to deal with the other spectrum of stealth rockers and this is an unlikely luxury on non stall teams. However on stall teams (where you should run double hazard removal anyways imo and there are moveslots for it too) Articuno has a very good niche as a last mon Reuncilus counter while also being able to hold its own weight otherwise. But yes it needs major support in the form of external hazard support despite it being a hazard remover itself and that is why I am only nominating for C rank.

Here are a few high ladder replays of articuno in action
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-252842092
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-253175309

 

[Funbot28]

Ok giving some thoughts:

A+ to S: Agree. MegaDrill is one of the most threatening mons in the current meta after Mega Pidgeot was banned from the tier. It has amazing Spd and Atk, and hits incredibly hard with Adaptability boosted U-turn and Poison Jab. With it's fast speed, it can provide your team fast momentum, and acts as a great revenge killer on Volturn teams. It is however incedibly frail meaning it's weak to priority, and predicable with it's movesets, but definitely could see it rising, as it can handle with most of the meta.

A to S: Disagree. Like others have mentioned, I find Pory2 is extremely overrated on what it can do. Yes it has incediblt bulk and decent offensive stats, but it is very limited on what it can do. 99.99% of the time it is running Eviolite, so it doesn't have diversity on what items it can run (Excluding Megas in this case), and is extremely susceptible to Knock Off, which is never good for a wall. Overall, Pory2 is a great defensive mon in UU, but wouldn't consider it meta defining in the slightest.

A- to A: Disagree. I know Fighting types are a nuisance in UU, and Doublade can wall them easily, but I find it cannot wall them consistently like people are making it out to be. Like Pory, it too is even more suspectible to Knock Off, and does not possess extreme bulk in HP and SpDef. It can sweep with SD, but since it is rather slow, it has to rely on Shadow Sneak to get some KOs.

The rest of the mons I don't have experience playing with to make any comments.

Here are some of my own noms:

A+ to A: With the recent rise of Suicune again, Entei has a hard time adapting to the meta. It's CB set is still really good, but it kinda gets shut down by bulky waters like Suicune, Blastoise and Feraligatr. Bulku Mence also it a problem to Entei, as it can usually take 2 hits, and procede to deal with Entei. The banning of Mega Pidgeot also does not benefit Entei, as there are more Fighting types running around, leaving the slot to be taken as a CB heavy hitter. Overall, Entei is still a great mon, but the meta has been unkind to it recently.

A to A+: Now with Mega Pidg gone, Heracross has got one less problem to deal with to destroy teams. It has a multitude of sets it can run, and has extremely powerful STABs in Megahorn and Close Combat. Deals with meta threats like CurseLax, Mamoswine, CM Reuniclus and Krokodile. This new meta benefits the Fightings, and Heracross imo benifited the most.

B+ to B: I never really see this thing at all on the ladder. You lose so much opputunity cost when using this, as you could have used better megas in Aerodactyl or Beedrill in it's place. There are also better Grass types in the tier, and honestly don't see the point of using Mega Sceptile.