Hearthstone [IRC Channel #Skillstone]

[vonFiedler]

Blizzard also said with the release of GvG that they wanted to reveal all the wacky RNG cards first because they are the most exciting. Hopefully they're employing that same strategy again with TGT.

But, you know they lied right? What they revealed was the RNG meat in a sandwich made with RNG bread, pickles, and mayo. There is no reason to think that isn't true here.

The lengths some people go to to defend this scrub first era pokemon tcg coin flip ass game.

 

[Matthew]

You only think it's a scrub rng flip because you're bad

 

[vonFiedler]

You only think it's a scrub rng flip because you're bad

I think it is because half the cards are rng and players are proud of 55% win rates.

Literally googling RNG is uncompetitive brings me back to smogon, so I don't know how this is still debated here.

 

[Matthew]

and that's why the tier 1 decks (list) are not really RNG designed. The involve consistent draw and or fast starts (which the mana crystal system favors).

 

[Pancham]

This isn't really good reasoning for calling new class cards bad, as one of the major things expansions try to do is create new deck archetypes. Like by your logic the hunter class cards are pretty shitty because they are trying to make control hunter a thing(it's a thing now more or less but ridiculously rare), which isn't really true for the most part even though something like lock n load is very rng dependent. I'm going to agree that poisoned blade is garbage and that burgle is really gimmicky, though I think anub'barak isn't that bad, cutpurse is a solid card that is getting to much shit, and that shado-pan calvary is an amazing card.

Speaking of rng can we talk about the fact that blizzard is making the game so much more rng than it already is? Random spells, random paladin cards and jousting just aren't the optimal direction for the game imo. Also people saying that you can control joust's outcomes by playing control doesn't seem to realize that it's pretty much impossible to win a joust 100% of the time. Something that I am fine with is stuff like ram wrangler since most beasts are at least passable, and piloted shredder because even though you can't manipulate the outcome, you are most likely going to at least get an average minion. And the Shaman card is average to begin with and the joust thing makes it insane is something that is good to do.

Anyways the minions I'm most excited to use are Varian, Justicare Trueheart, Clockwork Knight, Astral Communion, Aviana, Cutpurse, Light's Champion, Shado-pan Calvary, and Cutpurse.

Oh wow. I am so sorry for offending you with my negative criticism a few of your favorite cards in this expansion. However, let's be honest. Anu'Barak is too slow for any Rogue deck. I don't even see it having a spot in control Malygos Rogue, seeing as it has a pretty terrible body for the cost. Sure, Marino and are great and all, but as it stands, there is just no room for it. As for Cutpurse, I would agree that it was a fantastic card ifbitbwas worded a little differently. Something like "Put a coin in your hand every time this card damages your opponent" would make it a lot better than it currently is, as it's effect would activate if the opponent attacked it or it attacked your opponent. Currently, it is a two mama minion with a... Decent-ish body for the cost. Shado-Pan I have no criticism for as it is pretty good, and is probably the single Rogue card that will see regular play this expansion.

I kinda find your post to be a little ironic as you say Anu'Barak isn't that bad, and Cutpurse is a great card, and then go on to dismiss one of the best cards revealed this car as "average".

I don't think I should really have to explain why Healing Wave is so good, but... It helps Shaman deal with its weakest match up, aggro (fuck face huntards), and if you're not playing aggro, and are playing control b control/idrange, it slows you to heal a minion like Yser a or Malygos, even Neptulon, Dr. Boom, and other cards like those.

As for hunter cards, I didn't include them in the whole "worst set" because we have only seen like three of their cards, while we have seen 6 or 7 of Rogue's. Also, Lock and Load doesn't look too bad, while the only decent cards in Rogue's set are Shado-Pan and Cutpurse, the latter to an extent. As for them trying to make Control hunter a thing, let's be honest, this has been going on since GvG worth their legendary being pretty slow and what not...

Also, Tuskarr Jouster hype

 

[vonFiedler]

and that's why the tier 1 decks (list) are not really RNG designed. The involve consistent draw and or fast starts (which the mana crystal system favors).

The only decks I see there that don't have several RNG cards are Patron (the only one with none), Oil, and Freeze. Including what sounds like the most overused card in the game.

But even if that's a fair amount, it's a game then where a ton of cards were basically designed to be bad. Kinda thought that wasn't what they were going for.

Hell, they can't even make brawls without resorting to some variation of random monster, and then reusing them.

 

[Matthew]

The only decks I see there that don't have several RNG cards are Patron (the only one with none), Oil, and Freeze. Including what sounds like the most overused card in the game.

But even if that's a fair amount, it's a game then where a ton of cards were basically designed to be bad. Kinda thought that wasn't what they were going for.

Hell, they can't even make brawls without resorting to some variation of random monster, and then reusing them.

I will agree the the card quality is poor, but the decks which you say have RNG really don't. Unstable is a bad card, but it is not unfair, and often times (Unless the card is really good, turn four Boom good) then you're just dropping whatever you're playing from it for tempo or a Flamewaker activation, the basis of the deck.

Control Warrior's only source of RNG is in Brawl, which is usually worked around by having an Execute, Shield Slam, or a Sylvanas ready to handle if the "big scary thing" lives.

All the other decks consist of RNG that isn't really RNG. Mad Scientist in Hunter isn't bad because you're either running two of the same trap (Explosive or Freezing), or three (two Freezing one Explosive). You don't really care which trap you get because it forces your opponent to play around one of two options either way. I could go on and on about how none of those decks involve any RNG (I could be argued against Tempo Mage though) but really the best decks only have the flaw of having a good opening hand against whatever you're playing against.

If you would like to argue that having no cards that allow you to search your deck for something specific is bad design, I'd agree. If you want to argue that over half the cards being trash is bad design, I'd agree. We probably agree on a lot of game design that would improve the game, and it (might) be for the better.

However don't say that games are 50/50 coin flips based purely on luck.

 

[Pancham]

The only decks I see there that don't have several RNG cards are Patron (the only one with none), Oil, and Freeze. Including what sounds like the most overused card in the game.

But even if that's a fair amount, it's a game then where a ton of cards were basically designed to be bad. Kinda thought that wasn't what they were going for.

Hell, they can't even make brawls without resorting to some variation of random monster, and then reusing them.

Freeze mage uses Ragnaros which has an ENG based effect (random target takes 8 dmg). You can lessen the RNG by clearing the opponent's side and have the only target be the hero tho

 

[Matthew]

Freeze Mage does not use Ragnaros

 

[vonFiedler]

However don't say that games are 50/50 coin flips based purely on luck.

The coin flip I was referencing was the coin flip mechanics in early pokemon sets, pretty much universally seen as that game being in its infancy. Some of this is okay but I think Blizzard does it in the extreme quantity they do because they legit don't know what else to do to make new stuff/earn money, and my original point was that it's not defendable after they blatantly lied about it pre-GvG.

 

[Matthew]

Hey guys I just started the game yesterday, is there any advice on what cards/decks are good?

Patron warrior is a cheap deck to build, some versions don't even run a legendary or epic card, just the first wing of BRM. It's also considered the best deck in the game.

Other than that a lot of hunter builds are super easy to craft at low cost and do an amazing job.

That's my two cents but forge your own path if you have a some bucks to spend

 

[Blazade]

Hey guys I just started the game yesterday, is there any advice on what cards/decks are good?

Prioritize getting Naxxramus at some point, there's no other way to get those cards and many of them are staples in Deathrattle aggressive decks or key cards in midrange/control decks. BRM isn't as key but you'll have to do it at some point.

BRM wing 1 lets you get Patron warrior as has been said, but that is one of the hardest decks to play effectively because there's ton of math required in calculating lethal damage, and a ton of patience, timing, and metagame knowledge required in order to play a combo deck in general. Very fun and very rewarding though.

Other than that open packs you get for quests and arena and see what you can start crafting towards. Most fun, easy to learn decks only require a couple of legendaries. Warlock is a decent way to start, as you can build a Zoo deck cheaply, and build up to more midrange demon zoo after getting Malganis and Dr. Boom. Zoo is also a more fun aggressive option than hunter most of the time.

As for control decks, you can usually build most priest lists pretty cheaply, and they're pretty fun to play too. They're not as good as they used to be though, and that wasn't even stellar, so you may want to try for another option. If you open an Archmage Antonidas, that's a good reason to start crafting towards a few of the different types of Mage decks. Most of the cards you craft there, like Alextrasza and Dr Boom, will help for other decks too, and you can easily build a large variety of viable aggressive and control decks in Mage. Again, warlock isn't a terrible option if you've already started crafting for zoo, but this is bordering on pretty expensive on the dust. The Malganis in midrange zoo helps here, and you usually need another legendary like Jaraxxus or Alextrasza, a Dr. Boom, and a few Mountain and Molten Giants.

Keep in mind a new expansion is about to hit soon, but most of these shells are pretty stable, and a lot of the crafts you would make won't go to waste.

 

[RODAN]

 

[Blazade]

I like the new Paladin secret, it gains tension with Avenge, the only other relevant one. You can set it up early and play multiple minions, then if they clear they get avenged and if they don't they get Glorious Anthemed.

I also like Chillmaw or whatever it is. Art is badass, feels like Warrior Tirion in a sense. In a class without a whole lot of AoE this can definitely fill some hoes in your gameplan. Solid counter to Highmane because it naturally gets played afterward. The Dragon matters mechanic can make it awkward but can also give you some control over it

The Shaman legendary is great, that kind of permanent advantage is killer, but I'm not sure shamans have the cards to support it yet. I like the AoE they got too, but damage to everything might hurt shaman pretty hard if they skip their next turn.

Preist got the short end of the stick again. Flash heal was relevant because that effect is really solid against Aggro, but a more strong option than Light of the Naaru and a better option than Healbot against other decks. it doesn't take up mana so you can develop/hero power, diversifies your pyro combo trigger options, and synergizes well with Auchenai. The legendary we got was pretty lackluster, though. You can't expect this to live, you just can't. The real question is would you rather play Sneeds and get the deathrattle potentially or wait till turn 9 and get a 5/4 and a legendary. The real question is, why not just play Ysera? Nexxus Champion Saraad is more effectively costed and balanced for Priest's goals if you go the inspire route IMO. The card is incredibly powerful if you can protect it, but Priest as control deck runs fewer minions than most, and so the more valuable ones are more vulnerable to hard removal from the opposing deck. Probably would have been insane as a warrior or warlock legendary.

 

[ryan]

so many new cards

flash heal is sick with auchenai

paladin secret is shit imo

loving a lot of the new hunter cards. good board control cards. everyone keeps talking about them enabling control hunter but even a tempo/board control hunter like midrange but a bit more controlling would be really cool. the 3 mana hunter legendary is fucking sick too.

shaman legendary and priest legendary are both sick. priest legendary gets even better with the coach thing 3 mana 2/2 next hero power costs 2 less. you can drop it before 7 then drop the legendary + hero power on 7 and get immediate value unless you pull like edwin or something lol

digging a lot of these dragon cards too. the 2 mana 1/4 +1 atk and taunt if holding a dragon, 7 mana 6/6 taunt hellfire if holding a dragon, and other taunt one like the 2 mana one are all really cool. I'm glad they gave dragon decks more defensive measures to get to late-game. seems like they could be strong.

 

[Catherine Walker]

My only legendary is Leeroy XD

 

[Oopa]

my experience with this brawl was so bad. got alleria 6 times in a row (7 times including other acc), and medivh starts off with lowly squire cos based rng and alleria is so slow and joust pulls up the elekk, and even when you get a high mana cost card they whip out their frost giant. and the thing that pisses me off most is alleria's concede quote lol. #neverlucky babyrage

 

[Acklow]

Gonna re-c/p my Battle.net name: Acklow#1224 (or just Acklow idk w/e). Anyways, getting back into the game and I'm in the process of building a Demon deck. Any recommendations?

 

[ryan]

alleria's deck is ass, but it perfectly showcases why jousting is an awful mechanic. you need early-game minions to stave off aggressive openers or some kind of major comeback mechanic otherwise, and jousting just doesn't cover that, at least not with the cards in this set. the more early-game minions you have, the less likely you are to win jousts, which means you're running suboptimal cards. I will say however that the low card quality on the high end of the curve in alleria's deck certainly doesn't do it many favors. skeleton knight, acidmaw, the 5/9, etc. are all shit. the only place I could see jousting work is druid, where you run little to no low cost minions, but even then, most of the joust cards suck anyways lol. the better sunwalker is cool though.

the brawl did a nice job of selling me inspire though. i thought inspire cards would be super ass, and while many of them are, they're also high priority minions. if you leave them up, they can keep on getting value through their inspire ability every turn, and there's always the threat of popping the ability more than once in a turn with the 2 mana 2/3 or colderra drake, which i think is a bit better than i originally believed.

but yea this brawl is fucking awful. it got to the point where i just insta-conceded whenever i got alleria. i think lock and load might be pretty good, but it might also just be that getting off a good lock and load was pretty much the only way to win the brawl as alleria so idk.

 

[Blazade]

Won my brawl after 2 tries, both of them I got Alleria. The first game I actually drew into the double Lock and Load dream with a natural way to play 2 spells behind it, but that card is real trash. So much commitment to pull off even a realistic amount of card draw and fucks up the way you play the game too much. Not only that, most of the random hunter cards aren't what you want to see most of the time, if not downright unplayable. But yeah the whole time I felt like most of what I was doing was completely outclassed by the other deck. For example, I never had a good time to play unleash the hounds.

As far as Joust goes, I liked King's Elekk and Master Jouster, those cards were safe enough most of the time, but yeah the mechanic seems like its basically just for fun. Even if you make the very serious decision to design your curve around it i think it's doubtful that you can be confident enough in your chances unless your opponent caps at 3 like most full retard aggro decks, and there are better ways to deal with that. The fact that many of the joust cards compete for higher slots in your deck themselves is also a bummer. I didn't enjoy clash in MTG either, and there you have more options to manipulate the top cards of your deck. At least blizzard is trying to handle dragon in hand mechanics better than MTG did.

I don't think I ever actually put my battletag up here, but it's Ghostwheel#1138

 

[Acklow]

I was able to pick up a win with Aleria, but only after like 5 games with her and one game with Medivh. I got really really unlucky getting Aleria so often that I felt really shafted by rng... Anyways, hopefully looking to doing decently in Arena until the next expansion drops.

 

[AOPSUser]

Acklow for your Demon deck I'd recommend Voidcaller :P

But srsly, there's a lot of ways you can go demon. You can make it midrange or make a demon zoo deck, maybe even a demon handlock idk.

The brawl was annoying. I broke through with Alleria when Lock and Load gave me King Krush and Animal Companion gave me Huffer. Neither side is bad, Alleria is just a lot more RNG-intensive.

(my battletag is ytao#1551 if you want it)

 

[Matthew]

The Hunter deck, a huge majority of the time, is better than the mage deck. It's the same case as Nef vs Rag. Rag had a deck with a solid curve and win condition while Nef was relying on RNG draws. There isn't a single card in the Hunter deck (Tracking could be argued) that is bad while the mage fiddles with half combo pieces in their hand.

Overall I would say that Inspire is a good mechanic that just needs a better deck around it while Joust is an equally good mechanic (aside from the animation being the worst thing in Hearthstone period).

 

[the pugilist]

The Hunter deck, a huge majority of the time, is better than the mage deck. It's the same case as Nef vs Rag. Rag had a deck with a solid curve and win condition while Nef was relying on RNG draws. There isn't a single card in the Hunter deck (Tracking could be argued) that is bad while the mage fiddles with half combo pieces in their hand.

Overall I would say that Inspire is a good mechanic that just needs a better deck around it while Joust is an equally good mechanic (aside from the animation being the worst thing in Hearthstone period).

 

[Mr.E]

Hunter deck is garbdix. Medivh has an actual curve to work with most of the time, while Alleria is all like "lol 80% of my deck costs 5+" and then all her big cards are fucking ass anyway so you don't even get rewarded for managing to stay alive until that point. Funny thing is the best use of her mana lategame isn't even to play her generic big stuff, it's to splooge out Lock and Load combos. The big stuff just gets rekt by her Polymorph Huffers and Inspire shit.

I don't think anyone would say Ragnaros had a bad deck, the entire thing that unbalanced that brawl was Nef starting four mana ahead.