Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139

[Mikael]

I still keeping my opinion on Azumarill. Disagree with it.
Keys: Agree. Solid defensive typing with an awesome support move set + prankster makes it very helpful.
Gengar: On the Fence. While the usage of Weavile and Tornadus-T is increasing,and while this thing isn't as threatening as before,It still hits like a truck.I don't see something outside of Tornadus-T that can safety switch in on Gengar. Not only that,it also has some cool support moves like WoW,Taunt,D-Bond,Sub...
Discussing on ferrothorn maybe later. No opinion on the rest

 

[Taliheim]

Only going to comment on the ones I actually have experience using/playing against.

Klefki: Agreed, it does too much to stay in A-
Azelf: Agreed, although I love the mon it's hard to get a complete Pokemon slot free while teambuilding. B- would seem to fit better.

 

[Anduril]

I think Klefki is completely deserving of A rank. Thunder Wave support is so nice and offering Spikes support as well is extremely beneficial. It's a pretty good Lati check even with Latios running HP Fire nearly all the time, and Dual Screens, while lesser used, are clutch. While Klefki is somewhat able to be setup on, the pure support it offers makes it A material.

Also what has changed for regular Venusaur? I'm honestly curious why I would use this outside of Sun.

 

[Firer4]

Fairy types have a lot to do with it. Medicham can actually dispose of numerous faster Fairies with combination Fake Out/Bullet Punch, great for Altaria, Gardevoir and Diancie. Psychic and Fire types are also far more common offensively which Medicham is not weak to. Heracross also risks self-destruction against Tankchomp with its multi hit contact moves, or CC defense drops. Then there's the fact Hoopa-U sits at a higher speed tier, is arguably the best wallbreaker in the tier, and doesn't cost a mega slot.

Well Medicham doesnt have the bulk to take these fast fire and psychic moves either. Not even sure who you are talkin of, cause Talon and Garde just ohko with their other Stab while Kazam got a pretty good chance to ohko with psychic (and ofc shadow ball). Medichams prio isnt exaxtly helpful against Fire types anywhay.

You are correct that bpunch is pretty huge against fastet faries (altho if u run it u get walled by even more stuff), but when enough to be a subrank above hera when considering his advantages (like not being ohkod by neutral hits and not being hard walled)?

Also heracross multihits move do not make contact where as Medicham suffers from every fake out and bpunch. Hera actually outspeeds and 2hkos (Ohko after SD) TankChomp which is quite the feat.

 

[bludz]

The issue with Heracross is its speed tier is actually bad. You are downplaying it like it isn't a big deal but 75 to 100 is a pretty big difference. Medicham can actually outspeed stuff like Lando-T and max speed Heatran, among a ton of other things which is pretty huge. Because of this Heracross is also very prediction reliant because if you can bring in a pokemon that's faster than it on a resisted hit then it can be scared out, whereas most mons that are faster than Medicham tend to be fairly frail.

Azelf B -> B-
I agree. Not that hyper offense is dead but it often necessitates a pokemon like Lando-T or TankChomp as your rocker so you don't get steamrolled by certain offensive threats i.e. Mega Lopunny. The thing with Azelf is that you're making a gamble that you can keep their rocks off and your rocks up for the entirety of the game. The suicide aspect gives you some momentum but at the same time it provides you with very little freedom turn to turn since if you lose momentum for even a turn it's basically really bad. This is essentially a 5 on 6 match and I just don't think it's worthy of B rank at the moment. It also isn't incredibly reliable against Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye since they can choose not to Mega Evolve on the Skill Swap. Pretty sure lead sets are the only ones worth ranking anyway so that's all I discussed.

 

[Clone]

bludz is c+ at best. ever since the avatar change he hasn't been as viable in the current metagame.

i also believe the nidos deserve a raise. i got my first real chance to try them out recently, and they are definitely better than d lol. they're no lando i, but they sure as hell lay the hurt on opponents when played right. a nidoking set of ice beam / fire blast / dual stabs is capable of breaking quite a few defensive cores like hippoclef, cleftran, lando + scizor, etc. nidoqueen isn't as powerful, but it still has good power and is capable of laying down t spikes, which makes it a decent alternative to dragalge if an electric immunity and rock resist is more preferable to dragalge's resistances.

while they do have their positives, they do suffer from negatives such as relatively low speed and somewhat lacking power, so i can't really see them above the c ranks, but c seems perfectly acceptable for both given their positives and negatives.

 

[Eckleburg]

Hey,

I know this isn't part of the new slate, sorry for this, but I don't see another way asking this question: What do you guys think about Dragalge being in B+?

Offensive T-Spikes was its best set at the time where Dragalge went from B- to B+ iirc. And now, with 'new' Pokémon in the metagame like Weavile, Alakazam, M-Alakazam, Hoopa, etc., it's hard for me to justify its ranking placement in my head.

What do you guys think?

 

[Alfalfa]

While Klefki is one of the few Spikers that can fit on offensive teams, I always found that once you get past its support movepool, it literally just sits in front of bulkier Pokemon and invites them to set up alongside you, especially Steels like Ferrothorn and Skarmory who don't care about Toxic. While Spikes are in high demand right now, I honestly feel that Klefki is being slightly overrated, since it really lacks any way of pressuring opponents outside of Prankster Status + hazards. However, I would not say Klefki is a rank below Latias, Slowbro, and Mew, I just feel it is being overhyped since offensive teams can actually find themselves wanting more from Klefki than it can provide.

 

[heritage]

Just two small opinions comin' your way :)
I completely agree on Klefki moving up to A. Prankster Spikes, Thunder Wave and even dual screens support is just too much to look over, and a phenomenal defensive typing means it's going to get a lot of opportunities to set up. In combination with these traits, Magnet Rise means you take away a massive weakness, leaving you with only one, which is fun as hell to mess around with. It's not as passive as it might see right away, and it checks such a large portion of the meta. It does have issues against Pokemon such as Skarmory and stallbreaker Gliscor, but it just does so much in a single Pokemon, even with these slight flaws and if it is slightly predictable, and anything below A seems underselling it.

Azumarill to S seems pretty plausible. It has so few switch-ins, especially on offense, to its dual STABS that it's insane. Whenever I finish a team I think, "what's my switch to Azumarill?" The general answer is nothing. Choice Band is a monster, and if it gets a free switch-in, most of the time it's not what you switch-in, it's what you sack. Belly Drum is sadly a bit mediocre at the time, but when played right, it still takes a massive chunk out of supposed checks. Like, at +6, a lot of Pokemon that check it like Serperior, Latios and Altaria take 60+ from Aqua Jet, which means the opponent is going to have to keep them very healthy to even remotely check Azumarill. Even Assault Vest isn't that bad. Sadly, it's easily worn down and doesn't hit as hard as it needs to, but it's still an option. Combine these positives with a decent typing and above-average bulk, one of Azumarill's only downfalls is its Speed. It's such a fantastic Pokemon in the current metagame and an S rank seems decent.

 

[Srn]

well some of my thoughts on the new slate:
Azumarill: A+ -> S

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nah.
Well this sounds weird but i find that its really only fantastic on paper. But in practice I feel like its very prediction reliant.

I mean look at this way. Pretend that you're a cb azu, pretty standard, and you switch into keldeo to take a hit, pretty common.
So once you take a specs scald for 35%~ and eat rocks, your opponent has two teammates, lando-T and latios (both fairly common).
Opponent can switch into lando-t to eat a play rough (takes a lot but it takes it) and threaten to kill you with eplate eq, and the next time you switch-in you're 2hkod by keldeo.
Or he can switch into latios, take the waterfall, and KO you back with psyshock. You're forced out, and you can't switch into keldeo's scald again.

In this kind of scenario, if you click the wrong stab move, azu useless for the rest of the match (outside of jet) because of how slow it is.
And stall/balance has plenty of good options to handle it like mega scizor, ferrothorn, rotom-w, skarmory, mega venusaur, amoonguss, tangrowth, gourgiest, slowbro, empoleon, jirachi, (mega) metagross, celebi, hell even zapdos doesn't do a terrible job. azu needs to predict perfectly twice to get past a lot of these, and sometimes even that isn't enough.
Ok so BD plows through a lot of these but BD is a lot easier said than done, and even stall teams can apply the correct pressure to prevent a set up with phazing moves, taunt, wisp, or just SE moves that are stronger than alomomola. BD azu puts in work once its up but it requires a good bit of support and lures to get the job done.
And av is dead fucking weight vs stall and most prepared balance in exchange for being much better vs offense.

ofc we can't ignore the defensive utility the bunny brings to the table, we all know that, but my main point was that its stabs are being overhyped a little. It has more checks than people think.

Ferrothorn: A -> A+

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well
it's a really nice tank and all but i just feel like its really easy to wear down.
That and half the meta is out to lure this fucker. Hp fire latios, hp fire starmie, hp fire kube, hp fire diancie, natural gift fire gyarados (this shit is fun), fire punch rachi, low kick weavile, fire blast altaria, fire punch dragonite, fire punch dd mtar, flamethrower slowbro, hp fire mega venu, fire fang aero holy fucking hell you gotta scout the things you're supposed to check 5 times before even switching in man. Keep it where it is.

Gengar: A+ -> A

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looking at it on paper increased usage of av torn-t and (pursuit) weavile makes it look like gengar's life is quite a bit tougher than it was before, so i'm leaning toward dropping, but i don't use gar much myself so I think i'll leave it to people who do to decide this one.

Klefki: A- -> A

Hide

same as gar. raise looks good on paper but i dont use it much

Hydreigon: B+ -> B

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i'll quote what i said about it already

Nooot necessarily.
I think you're pigeonholing hydreigon into a wallbreaker role, but it can do other things too (i mean outside of revenging with scarf as well)
A set of Roost/taunt/stabs is perfectly fine to stall break the usual ferro/tran/chansey etc while still posing a threat to offense with its natural power. Hell you could viably run work up or torment over draco too. You mention that "hydreigon just got a lot easier to switch into" but that's true for every stallbreaker lol. Stallbreakers are aimed at bulkier builds, not offensive ones. Its not as if bulky talon is suddenly bad just because it can't flare blitz the raikou.
And people seem to be forgetting that unlike hoopa or w/e else people are comparing this with, it has more bulk than keldeo (barely), 6 resistances, and two immunities. It actually switches into shit and not a lot of other dark types do.
Even an expert belt set bluffing scarf is extremely effective at luring in fairies with flash cannon; clefable aren't nearly as keen to switch into kyu-b considering ice beam 2hkos with the slightest prior damage. It's also a bisharp check (given the basic coverage) that isn't a fighting type, that's kinda cool
Leave hydreigon where it is. It seems quite at home amongst mega heracross and mamoswine, pokemon that have their defensive niches to complement their power.

Reuniclus: B+ -> B

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eh cm is pretty good and otr is something i havent tried. I think people oughta consider+try otr before dropping. might be better than i think; might be worse :P

Azelf: B -> B-

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dunno why it was this high to start with, the 3 turns max it is alive on the field it is incredibly prediction reliant and it still faces a ton of competition for its role. drop sounds aight. even a np set is slower than zam which just 2hkos shit regardless, and all the moves on cb sets have really bad base power.

Nidoking: D -> C-/C

Nidoqueen: D -> C-/C

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haven't used either of these too much.

Venusaur: D -> C
pls explain Henry wat does dis do

 

[teamjohto]

While Klefki is one of the few Spikers that can fit on offensive teams, I always found that once you get past its support movepool, it literally just sits in front of bulkier Pokemon and invites them to set up alongside you, especially Steels like Ferrothorn and Skarmory who don't care about Toxic. While Spikes are in high demand right now, I honestly feel that Klefki is being slightly overrated, since it really lacks any way of pressuring opponents outside of Prankster Status + hazards. However, I would not say Klefki is a rank below Latias, Slowbro, and Mew, I just feel it is being overhyped since offensive teams can actually find themselves wanting more from Klefki than it can provide.

You're right in that Klefki is not the mon you want on the field to pressure bulky setup walls, but the light screen/reflect set can support your teams wallbreaker in to handling those for you, especially the most fragile ones like Alakazam who can switch in on stronger attacks to deal with the threat thanks to screen support.

Klefki can also heavily discourage offensive setup with Foul Play to punish them for Swords Dance or Dragon Dance setup, which is arguably more crucial than stopping defensive setup as long as you have your wallbreaker to deal with it reliably.

I can agree that the keyring may receive a little too much praise because it's not a straight-up answer to every threat out there, and often loses to ground and electric types who can't be crippled by T-wave, but it is a very reliable emergency button that can cripple most sweepers with T-wave then set screen support for the rest of your team and can change the entire tide of battle in 2 turns.

 

[Vert]

klefki should definitely rise to a. its one of the best support 'mons for offense with its unique typing combined with its utility moves. it pairs excellently with top tier threats found on offense such as mega manectric and bisharp. garchomp also is used a lot so you have a nice support core for your team that's not passive at all. it can lure some cool things like toxic for garchomp and landorus-t meaning your lopunny will have an easier time breaking things. it has fairy lock to checkmate threats you want removed and has metal sound + flash cannon if you are clefable weak.

azelf is not that effective anymore. all you do is get rocks up and die because the metagame is 10x faster now compared to xy and early oras. not to mention that garchomp and the aforementioned klefki exist. your playing 5v6 nowadays. it loses to a lot of opposing hazard setters anyways. rofl if anything dual screens is its best set tbh

not much to say about this slate, i don't want to say anything stupid

 

[Dread Arceus]

Nidos should go C- just because holy fuck they're hard to switch in to
What's the deal with Venusaur? Did somebody crack the code on using Sun in ORAS? Even so I'm not sure I'd use it over Victreebel...
Also as far as Azu goes, I just feel that, while hard to switch in to, its sets tend to be inconsistent on how they perform, especially if it has to play a defensive role. It can sweep with BD, but it's not as monstrous as Char X imo due to half its health being lost and the lack of speed really shoes, despite Aqua Jet. If anything the Band set is the nasty one, but even that one has the simple trouble of being forced to make plays. Yes, predictions a two-way street, but the risk and reward are both very high in this one and it honestly should be mentioned.


EDIT: (id much much rather use victreebel over venu).

 

[EternalSnowman]

If people don't know what Venusaur does, then it is the most potent sun sweeper, it is essentially a Kingdra in sun, except it gets an amazing boosting move. Granted, sun isn't nearly as good as rain in term of weather reliability. Overall I could see it rising to C- or maybe C, since it makes a great partner to Charizard-Y, but overall Sun as a weather recieved some huge nerfs, namely the fact that Sawsbuck's Nature Power became Tri-Attack vs. Earthquake and that Ninetales now has to run Heat Rock and switch in to set it (Politoed, Hippo and Ttar have more bulk so running their respective rocks don't hurt them as much, since their natural bulk can help them reset weather every once in a while). Nevertheless, even outside of sun it provides a decent stop to Keldeo and Azu without having to use up your mega slot on M-Venu.

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252+ SpA Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 324-384 (89.2 - 105.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 421-499 (115.9 - 137.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 156-184 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 69-82 (19.2 - 22.8%) -- possible 5HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 186-219 (51.8 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Venusaur: 180-212 (50.1 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 320-377 (99 - 116.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

This is running Growth Chlorophyl.

As for the Nidos, I am all for raising them I actually nommed it about 30 pages back and got shot down. While I'm not a fan of Nidoqueen, I think Nidoking is one of the best wallbreakers in the game. It's ridiculous coverage and solid STAB attacks make up for its lack of power. Similar to Hoopa-U, very little in the metagame is able to avoid 2HKO's against it. It's speed tier is just above Hoopa-U's which is nice as well.

 

[Me and ur mom]

Mega Sceptile to B+. Honestly with all this HO running around it's made Sceptile so much better. It dismantles most HO and usually just gets a kill every time it gets in or cuz of its speed tier u can just lead off with it and start killing shit. I don't have any replays but I have a YT vid (not mine) that shows what Sceptile can do against HO.

 

[Finchinator]

Azumarill should stay A+ imo. The CB set is potent, sure, but it's also quite slow and doesn't have too much survivability (vulnerability to the ever-so-common Scald and inability to invest too heavily in HP or defenses hurts it here). I feel like the main grounds for arguing for it to be S in this regard would be lack of counters or reliable switch-ins, which is indeed a pro of the CB set, but there are still a couple defensive answers to it and locking into the wrong move at the wrong time can easily have consequences, especially for an offensive team. Belly Drum set is also good ofc, but pretty much every team will have multiple answers to it (most of them being quicker aqua jet resists that can revenge kill it) and it doesn't get too many opportunities to set up. The pokemon in S are all sort of metagame defining pokemon - ZardX and even altaia are top megas and physical sweeping threats, clefable is incredibly useful with defensive utility and has a couple solid sets, hoopa is an unmatched breaker, and manaphy is an anti-balance sweeping machine. Azumarill...has a great wallbreaking set in CB and a nice sweeping set in BD, but it doesn't quite reach the level of the aforementioned S ranked threats, so I'd say it belongs in A+.

Gengar should goto A imo. While gengar is always hard to switch into and deal with when using slower balanced teams, the metagame has sped up a lot in ORAS and with things like Weavile becoming top offensive threats, Gengar's effectivness has diminished greatly. It's still a solid force against balance and bulky offensive teams with taunt/wisp+3a LO (best variants, imo), but it's not as good as it was back in later XY or even earlier ORAS when it was quite annoying for a lot of builds and easier to fit onto teams..now it's just not as effective and the lack of defensive presence is also a killer for teams (especially offensive ones) as they're then bound to have some weaknesses. Overall, Gengar is simply worse than before and deserves a small drop, so A is where it belongs imo (it fits in with the other A mons, too).

Nidoking and Nidoqueen are seriously underranked in D and should both go to C, in my opinion. Both of them are able to do a number to balanced or bulky offensive teams with their solid coverage and onslaught of special attacks boosted by Sheer Force and LO. With Landorus gone, nothing really obsoletes or outdoes them, but there is still lots of competition for the wall/stall-breaker role, so I wouldn't even think of promoting them any higher, but they have a distinct niche and they hit hard while walling the fuck out of the ever-so-annoying CM TWave Clef, so I'd say that C is the best place for the Nidos to reside.

 

[Yugi]

Mega Sceptile to B+. Honestly with all this HO running around it's made Sceptile so much better. It dismantles most HO and usually just gets a kill every time it gets in or cuz of its speed tier u can just lead off with it and start killing shit. I don't have any replays but I have a YT vid (not mine) that shows what Sceptile can do against HO.

Mega sceptile isnt very good in this metagame,having a 4 times weakness to ice,being weak to the prominent mega being altaria isnt good for it aswell.Its dual stabs dont provide much coverage,so it needs to rely on stuff like HP and EQ for example.Being also weak to clefable/scizor is a big problem for it right now,and i know HP fire is good,but it cant switch in,and it takes too much risk to predict,with weavile rising it isnt helping it either,and Kyu-B having a scarf set hurts it,and it can only fire up a leaf storm and then run,and it can easily be predicted,also EQ doesnt hurt anything much(e.g against megagross
252 Atk Mega Sceptile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 136-162 (45.1 - 53.8%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO,while it can ko with meteor mash and if needed BP).Lemme just adjust my points


1.Loads Of weaknesses
2.Being weak to the best pokemon in the tier
3.Loads of ice types in the tier
4.Scarf Dragons
5.Can be Predicted
6.Being weak against most of the megas
7.Weak to priority 4x
8.Not having a great time against talon

 

[s_aman]

Gengar to A : I support this nom. The rise of Hoopa-U has made the metagame a lot faster than what it already was. Weavile is on an all time high. Pursuit trapping has become popular. AV Totn-T is everywhere. All this has made the metagame a little diificult for Gengar. Now, most Clefable run thunder Wave as their fourth move which makes it risky to send in Gengar on Clefable, which it could do easily earlier.

Ferrothorn to A+: Pretty torn on this one, but leaning towards keep it in A. On one hand, It is a very nice blanket check to a lot of top threats. But, the problem is that you have to scout for a possible HP Fire or Superpower which is never a very good thing considering that the prediction game may go both ways. In many situations, the switch to Ferrothorn is just so obvious.Also, it gives switch in opportunities to monsters such as Zard forms, Heatran, Talonflame, Bisharp etc. But then again, Ferrothorn is one of the two main reasons that so many Pokémon run Hidden power Fire (If I need to tell you the other, then you should start playing OU imo :P). Its support movepool is endless. The spike in spikes (:D) usage is a double edge sword for Ferrothorn. Although it is a very good user of the move, Spikes also wear it down pretty fast considering its lack of reliable recovery. All in all, I think that Ferrothorn is good where it is atm.

Klefki to A : I alredy posted how much I love this thing. It fits very well on a lot of team archetypes and a provides a nice backbone to offensive teams along with the ever so controversial TankChomp (which I agree that it is fine in A+). http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...t-2831-page-114.3536420/page-112#post-6378411

Azumarill to S : I initially supported this, but after reading and pondering over the thoughts of other people, I changed my mind. Yes CB has 0 switch-ins on offense, but that's the feature of HO. You can't have a switch-in for everything. You just need to do enough damage so that one of your teammates can revenge the thing or sack something. It is also very prediction reliant. If you make the wrong move, you are put in a very unfavorable situation, with one of your most important Pokémon (Azu) potentially getting significantly damaged. As for the BD set, everyone knows the drill. Don't let your one Pokémon that takes a +6 Aqua Jet and does above 75% get damaged. I know its easier said than done with all the different kinds of residual damage forms prevalent in the metagame. Like Finshinator said it is not quite at the same level as Zard-x and Mga-altaria. It fits very well in the league of Bisharp and Keldeo.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

The reason Mega Sceptile should not rise to B+ is how easily top threats take advantage of it, in reality it's just painfully easy to switch into. Mega Altaria, Mega Scizor, Clefable, Mega Metagross, Chansey, Sylveon, bar the last two these pokemon are defining threats in the metagame and giving them consistantly free switch ins isn't a trait for a B+ mon.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

The reason Mega Sceptile should not rise to B+ is how easily top threats take advantage of it, in reality it's just painfully easy to switch into. Mega Altaria, Mega Scizor, Clefable, Mega Metagross, Chansey, Sylveon, bar the last two these pokemon are defining threats in the metagame and giving them consistantly free switch ins isn't a trait for a B+ mon.

altaria needs to be already mega evolved or else it bops to Dragon Pulse, def mzor is OHKOed by hp fire after rocks, meta and clef need to be careful with a bit of prior damage as they are 2HKOed.

Yeah, i wouldn't oppose Mega Sceptile going to B+, as it's an excellent check to Mana/Azu and TankChomp, as well as being very effective against HO.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

altaria needs to be already mega evolved or else it bops to Dragon Pulse, def mzor is OHKOed by hp fire after rocks, meta and clef need to be careful with a bit of prior damage as they are 2HKOed.

Yeah, i wouldn't oppose Mega Sceptile going to B+, as it's an excellent check to Mana/Azu and TankChomp, as well as being very effective against HO.

Sorry AM, this is probably not the discussion you want so I'll keep it quick then respond to something else so it's not a waste of a post.

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 118-141 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 3 layers of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery

Idk where you're getting this 2HKO from. Even with Stealth rocks and three layers of spikes it's still a roll with unaware, magic guard doesn't care, at all.

HP fire is... really bad on Mega Sceptile and while it is an option the best set is definitely Sub three attacks with Giga drain, which dismantles certain balance cores, if not for the fact that Clefable is everywhere and Clefable is a counter. Since it's obvious I need to expand a little; Mega Sceptile has poor match up versus all playstyles, as balance, stall and offence has viable counters all of which are splashable. Lets take balance for example, the most notable example is clefable, celebi, Mega Scizor, SPdef Talonflame, Hoopa-Unbound, Jirachi, Mew, Tornados-Therian, Mega Venusaur, Mega Altaria, Mega Sableye, Mega Gardevoir, Sylveon are all either counters or hard checks. And these aren't uncommon, at all. Three of them are S rank and most of the them are A.
But then you look at offence and how poor Mega Sceptiles match-up is versus them as well, getting zero switch ins, and you could argue that Rotom-W gives it a free switch in, but in reality it volt switches as you switch in and then forces you out, over and over again. Offence have these checks/counters to Mega Sceptile: Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Alakazam, Mega Metagross, Mega Scizor, Mega Altaria, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Lopunny(soft), Mega Pinsir, Mega Heracross, Mega Gallade, Mega Medicham, Mega Beedril, Landorus-Therian, Kyurem-B, Latias, Weavile, Talonflame, Tornadus-Therian, Azumarill, Klefki, Clefable, Hoopa-Unbound ect.

On stall it's even more walled by Chansey/Clefable/Skarmory so I'm not going to go over listing that.

Hydreigon should also go to B, it's received a ton of competition from Hoopa as a dark wallbreaker, If I rephrase that it would be that it's entirely outclassed as a wallbreaker by Hoopa, it's a good pivot with defences but it loses one roll so I don't think it's B+ atm.

 

[AM]

M-Scep isn't moving unless specifically stated by team. Move on and keep it to discussion points.

 

[pj]

Azumarill:
Azumarill hmm azumarill is considered as one of best physical attacker but being slow also scald burn percentage but having almost no check but a Mon that can be easily revenged after some prior damage so I would say its is best to stay at A+ like if it comes in on a keldeo scald it has to take some rocks damage then take scald and pray that it does not get burned so during this process its taking almost takin20-30% during this process also if its band it has to make a prediction to kill a Mon also mons like serviper hoopa-u etc getting popular it is best to stay at A+

Ferrothorn:
Ferrothorn easily one of best defensive Mon wch can set up rocks/spikes can help by killing some Mon via gyro ball power whip etc and it can also use moves like thunder wave wch may help vs charizard x wch plans to set up on it may also take manaphy if not burned.it can potentially stop sand sweeeper stop rain sweeepers and take on fairies with help of shed shell can not worry bout getting trapped so I would rank it litter higher not too high as mons like tran serviper+HP fire are being common so I would give A+

Gengar:
Gengar ahh one of best starter to gain momentum in xys but naw I would say it still works well as wisp+hex will do a hell of guud job by getting torn burn or ttr or bisharp also it has varies of option to use like icy wind and moves like shadow ball sludge wave 2kho almost every single ,it also stop from rapid spinning and speed ties with Latin twins etc it can also take on fairies and can ezly takes on balance teams but having many priority user scares gengar away so I would giveez A+

Klefki:
One of best prankster Mon wch helps to stop dragon dancers and help to get spikes on the field being one of best checks to fairies ,helps slower mons to sweep ,having moves like magnet rise to counter offensive garchomp lando-t and also helps in offensive teams also a Mon wch can be put in any type of teams so I definitely agree for A

Reuniclus:
A magic guard Mon tat can abuse cm and win vs other cm users like clefable and I am surprised to see it rarely as it can counter a lot of mons and can take on scald burn/ status it can abuse cm in balance and stall also having moves like trickroom may help to beat fast mons but having a lot of dark mons makes it weaker but not took weak so I would say it can in B+ maybe even A with even proper pursuit support it can ezlysetup

Nidoking
Mon wch can 2kho almost every Mon and having a large movepoll from flamethrower to sucker punch can add many creativity and actually work in most of times also the sheer force makes the power stronger and leaving with no recoil also it can use moves like Sr and toxic spike so I would surelly rank higher but having lots of Mon tat can out speed this monster get in this mons ass kicked so I would rank this beast B-

 

[AM]

I added a couple of more discussion points approved by Henry to his original post that can be found in the title of the thread. Stick to those points I'll be deleting stuff deviating it for the most part. Thanks.

 

[Dread Arceus]

thanks for the update AM :)

Crawdaunt: B > B-: It faces competition from Azumarill, Feraligatr, and Gyarados (Mega and non-Mega) as a sweeper and now has to compete with yet another nasty wallbreaker for teamslots; also Mega Altaria does a decent job countering it.
Goodra: C > C+: A counter to Char Y and Thundurus that's pretty much the definition of a tank, nothing can really OHKO it bar STAB super-effective physical attacks from top-tier threats. It's also got a huggggggeeee offensive movepool and is pretty hard to safely switch in to because of it. It tends to get 1-2 kills a game; give it a try before you knock it :)
Shaymin: D > C-: An offensive answer to Mega Gyarados. It's main competition is Serperior and Celebi. Unlike Serperior, it has a pretty good bulk and a good movepool with access to Natural Cure, allowing it to switch in to Scalds relatively well. It also gets Healing Wish can run both Earth Power and HP Fire, unlike Serp. It also has a tad more starting power. Its main niche over Celebi is typing; as Celebi's typing is honestly pretty garbage and leaves it susceptible to Pursuit trapping.