Unpopular opinions

It's been a while, but I've been thinking about what Codraroll said about not giving the player enough choices some time ago and have come to somewhat agree, although my angle of reasoning is different.

I've been playing Zelda - Ocarina of Time recently, and there's a magic spell you can get pretty early that, while useful offensively and for some puzzles, isn't actually required until much later in the game. At the point you can learn it, you're advised to get it and where to find it exactly once. It's not that out of the way, you're sure to have run by the location earlier and you've just aquired the item necessary to access it. It's also pretty useful to have, being strong offensively. But at no point are you forced to make that trip if you don't feel like it and want to put it off until much later in the game, when you actually do need it.

Contrast that to everyone's favourite XY item, the Experience Share. Early game, Alexa, the NPC that gives it to you, has two functions: she acts as a roadblock to make you fight Viola, and rewards you with the Experience Share if you do. My problem here is that, seeing as how broken many perceive it to be, a lot of players won't even use it at all during their normal playthrough and will immediately turn it off. And yet it's still in your inventory, cluttering up your key items pocket along with so many other key items you never use. You not only have to go through the cutscene with Alexa everytime you play through the game, but even have to turn it off manually if you don't want to use it. The game forces the item on you even if you don't want it, and it's not even required for the game at all. Compare that to Din's Fire from Ocarina of Time, which you can get sooner or later, whenever you want and that's something that's necessary for beating the game.

Combined with so many other similar examples that not only take the 3DS out your hands everytime something "important" happens to decide for you, but slow down your play at the same time (looking at you catching tutorials), things like these just take the fun out of the games. And THAT is why the games seem to be focused on battling so much - it's the only part of the game where you can actually decide for yourself what you want to do.

To get back to the Experience Share for a second, they could have had Alexa walk up to the player when they try to enter the gym, tell them to come talk to her once they beat her sister, and take her usual place in front of the Santalune City exit after that to block anyone who tries to sequence break and not battle Viola. The player is given the choice now: Do I get the Experience Share now? Or do I just get it postgame when I actually want to use it? The player is encouraged to get the item, but they are never forced to.

Maybe that's just me, but with the game handing such powerful stuff to me without me even doing anything for it, I just feel babied. And if you think about it, the game does that a lot, forcing you to take certain routes, talk to certain people, watch a fucking catching tutorial everytime and all that. You're free to use whatever Pokemon you like with whatever combination of moves, ability, items and whatnot you can think of. That's in sharp contrast to the rest of the game, where your hand is held pretty much every step of the way.
 
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Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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Thanks God you are not in charge of balance, priority based fly was proven an annoyance by iron ball Talonflame, non negative priority phazing is terrible remember gen 5 don't you? Then the worst offender is ohko on chance... We reached the hypotenuse.

I don't mind buffing their attack power to make them useful, or just removing them altogether but making them fancy for the sake of fancy it's on a whole new level of wrong.
Jeez, I was just throwing out ideas. In addition this is why we have these discussions, to bring up pros and cons to various decisions to come out with the best solution (at least among those who made the decision) possible. In addition I think Game Freak probably spends more than a few minutes to decide on a change, like they probably spent months on deciding whether to decrease the power of Special moves and another month deciding by how much should they decrease them doing plenty of play testing to see how how these changes would effect the game.

Power = 40 + (5 * number of badges) + (10 if Champion)
(I decided to change it from 95 to 10 as 95 seemed a bit too powerful. Also, as of Gen VI, the highest powered HM is Surf & Fly with 90)

(My idea with other changes is to no only to make them more useful but also to reflect the HM's effect on the field)
Cut. Type Change: Grass. New Effect: Removes the effects of Light Screen and Reflect
(Since cut it used mainly to chop down trees it being Grass-type is a reference to that. For the effect I want to have something that involves the idea your Pokemon is "cutting through something". I would have done a defense decrease but that's Rock Smash's deal, high critical hit ratio is Leaf Blade's, getting through Protect I gave to Fly, so I then thought about it "cutting" HP in half though that means it would have no Power so I added that chance to 1HKO. BUT that seems overpowered so then I thought about it maybe removing something which I then remembered about Brick Break's effect which I think is perfect)
Fly. Added Effect: Can bypass Protect and its variations.
(I'm working with the idea of what a Pokemon with fly would be able to do. I imagined a Pokemon with fly would already be flying anyway so that's where the priority idea came from but it can easily be explained away. However I do still like the idea of bypassing Protect and its variations since I imaged a Flying Pokemon would attack by hitting behind the Pokemon where they're not defending themselves (not to mention the opponent using Protect was one of the disadvantages of using Fly))
Surf. Left as is.
(Surf is already the best HM move and one of the best Water-type moves in general with a secondary effect very useful in Double/Triple battles. It needs no change)
Strength. New Effect: In Double/Triple battles it switches the target's position with an adjacent Pokemon.
(Originally I changed the type because strength is something Fighting-types were known for but decided its new effect could give it a niche that'll make it still usable. For its effect I wanted to reflect it "moving" something so I thought about maybe it forcing switched. But yeah, it would need a negative priority which stink so instead I now thought about having it be sort of a offensive Ally Switch)
Flash. Type Change: Electric. Changed Effect: It decreases all opponent's Pokemon accuracy. Added Effect: Depending on the number of badges it has a chance of decreasing accuracy by 2 stages.
(Type change since I imagine the Pokemon creating a bright light by gathering electricity and releasing it. Also never made sense why only the target would be affected by the Flash. And since its a Status Move I added it possibly decreasing accuracy by 2 stage depending on how many badges you have. Though all in all this doesn't matter as Accuracy alterations are banned in tournaments)
Whirlpool. Leave as is.
(I just realized that the effects for Whirlpool and Magma Storm was the same (I thought damage done each turn for Whirlpool was calculated using its Power, but it's also 1/16 of the opponent's HP). Whirlpool's problem has always been it was a Water-type move so it's competing with Surf. Now Surf is still the better move, though maybe with increased power Whirlpool could find a niche somewhere (maybe an Ability that helps with trapping moves))
Waterfall. Leave as is.
(Being Physical it's not overshadowed by Surf thus has its own niche. Plus that additional flinching effect makes some sense and makes it more than just a strong Physical Water-type move (though that's mainly what it'll be used as))
Rock Smash. Leave as is.
(Originally changed it to Rock-type since I made Strength Fighting-type and, like with cut, having it reflect its move effect. But then I thought it I kept Strength as normal I'd be able to keep Rock Smash as Fighting which keeps it in context of the move. Plus I decided it only makes sense that it would decrease just Defense since its as if you're breaking the Pokemon's armor; the increase in Power is all that it needs)
Defog: Added Effect: Depending on the number of badges it has a chance of clearing the entry hazards on your side of the field.
(I know the idea is that Defog is blowing EVERYTHING away but I think that by it only having a chance to clear only your fields entry hazards its as is it just so happened to only clear your field's entry hazards out of a stroke of luck (or maybe skill which relates back to it more likely happening as you get more badges)).


I think those are a bit more balanced. Afterall GF would never make anything that was so blatantly broken and unbalance... oh you know where this is going:


(Broken? Unbalanced? Why yes, I will break you to the point you can't keep your balance anymore, why do you bring it up?)

To get back to the Experience Share for a second, they could have had Alexa walk up to the player when they try to enter the gym, tell them to come talk to her once they beat her sister, and take her usual place in front of the Santalune City exit after that to block anyone who tries to sequence break and not battle Viola. The player is given the choice now: Do I get the Experience Share now? Or do I just get it postgame when I actually want to use it? The player is encouraged to get the item, but they are never forced to.

Maybe that's just me, but with the game handing such powerful stuff to me without me even doing anything for it, I just feel babied. And if you think about it, the game does that a lot, forcing you to take certain routes, talk to certain people, watch a fucking catching tutorial everytime and all that. You're free to use whatever Pokemon you like with whatever combination of moves, ability, items and whatnot you can think of. That's in sharp contrast to the rest of the game, where your hand is held pretty much every step of the way.
I liked how you got the Experience Share in BW. Yes it wasn't as powerful as it was in XY, but I found the way to get it (or at least the first one) to be a good example of what you were saying. In BW you had to battle your way through several floors of trainers (they're maybe not difficult but you still got to battle a batch of trainers) before being given the Exp. Share as a reward. And this was optional, if you didn't want to you could just ignore the building and go on with the story.

I personally don't mind the Exp. Share's new effect (well I do, but it's more from how much experience is given out), but I do wish they make you go out of your way to get it instead of handing it to me as part of the story.
 
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That's my point exactly. As someone else pointed out in one of the ingame tier list threads, the item isn't even that broken if you just battle mandatory trainers and only those - it's perfect for someone who just wants to get to the post game as quickly as possible. But not everyone is like that, and a whole lot of mandatory cutscenes are really annoying for people who like to do challenge runs, and will thus have to read all the text everytime.

There's different playstyles, and the games have huge potential to cater to each and every one of them, but they only do in one regard, which is battling where you have endless possibilities. That's what's good about the games, but I just wish they would use that same sensibility for the story mode as well. It wouldn't be so hard to have Calem ask you if you know how to catch Pokemon instead of showing you something you possibly did just mere moments before. There's many other things that could have been done differently. It's been forever since I played Fire Red / Leaf Green, but I remember they had the Teachy TV, an item that you COULD use to teach you stuff if you wanted to. Or you might aswell not, and nothing bad ever happened after.
 
Those badge changes are as close to whistling as it gets. There is no need for a badge power increasing mechanic, nor to give a 95 BP grass move to over half of the dex, just think of how broken balance becomes with this and 80 BP fighting type strength, let's be honest both of us can admit a move more a abusable than brick break would remove the layer of ingame difficulty horribly. Removing the double edged side of Defog makes it unstoppable and superior to rapid spin to a whole new level.

Seriously there is no need to have a badge mechanic, retype to increase appeal or anything else like removing protect or making other move like rapid spin useless, just think of having a splashable base 50+ BP early game learnable by half the early dex, almost as broken as bw return spam won't you agree?
 
And if you think about it, the game does that a lot, forcing you to take certain routes, talk to certain people, watch a fucking catching tutorial everytime and all that. You're free to use whatever Pokemon you like with whatever combination of moves, ability, items and whatnot you can think of. That's in sharp contrast to the rest of the game, where your hand is held pretty much every step of the way.
The tutorial at the beginning of the game doesn't annoy me for two reasons:
1) When you replay any game, the tutorial will be in the beginning just as it was the last time. I've played Ocarina of Time about 40 times and I don't get annoyed at the tutorials in Kokiri Forest and Inside the Great Deku Tree.
2) Any Pokémon game could be someone's first. Just cause I've been playing for years doesn't mean that Alpha Sapphire couldn't be some kid's first time.
And as I've said a million times, I don't mind the Gen VI Exp. Share. Lowering the amount of grinding makes me happy and allows me to enjoy the game more.
 
But the majority of the Ocarina tutorials can actually be skipped, and that's the difference. You can explore Kokiri Forest and talk to all the NPCs to learn valuable info on how the game works, or you can just get the sword, find 40 Rupees, buy the shield and start the first dungeon after like ten minutes. Your choice.

As for the catching tutorial, I'm not saying get rid of it, I'm just saying add the option to skip it. I also never said the Experience Share was bad per se, I just said I don't like how it's forced on you.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Those badge changes are as close to whistling as it gets. There is no need for a badge power increasing mechanic, nor to give a 95 BP grass move to over half of the dex, just think of how broken balance becomes with this and 80 BP fighting type strength, let's be honest both of us can admit a move more a abusable than brick break would remove the layer of ingame difficulty horribly. Removing the double edged side of Defog makes it unstoppable and superior to rapid spin to a whole new level.

Seriously there is no need to have a badge mechanic, retype to increase appeal or anything else like removing protect or making other move like rapid spin useless, just think of having a splashable base 50+ BP early game learnable by half the early dex, almost as broken as bw return spam won't you agree?
Okay, I'll give you my suggestions are on the edge of wishlisting and if a moderator feels it needs to be removed they can do so. But still I do think they can change the HMs to improve them. If they're going to force us to use the HMs I'd like for them to be useful. But of course there comes in that scale problem because giving the HMs a set amount of Power should dictate when you'll get it in the story. That's why I made that Badge system in my head, it scales the badge along with your story progress (honestly I think they could do a LOT more with the Badges being flag points, but that's for another discussion). Maybe not to the power extent I put them up as (I can also imagine each one increasing in power at their own rate), but if I'm required to teach them to a Pokemon to explore I'd like them to be useful in battle. Can we agree on that?

Also have you looked at most Pokemon movepools? They quickly learn more moves around 50-60 Power and at some point in the game their natural moves and other TMs would still be more worth having than a HM move (them being better than they were before would just soften the blow, only until you become Champion would they again be a possible choice). Cut itself is 50 Power and its the first HM you get. But I think we've talked enough about this, Unpopular Opinions has a lot more things to argue over about.

Beginning Tutorials:
Ah beginning tutorials, the tutorials no one likes but it needs to be there because this could be someone's first game. Still I think maybe they could provide a way to skip the tutorials (like when the prompt comes up instead of selecting yes or no it tells you to press both shoulder buttons if you want to skip, you know, something the kiddie won't be accidentally), or do tutorials in a way that if need be you can rewatch them again (I think FRLG did so with the Teachy TV). With the high tech gear we're given at least one should be able to play a video. Though hey, out of all the tutorials we go through let's just be glad Pokemon doesn't tell us how we use the direction pad to move or it doesn't take several hour to go through *looks at Kingdom Hearts 2*.

Though I say all this yet I do go through the catching tutorial even if I'm allowed to skip it; call it tradition. Also I'm thinking maybe something funny would happen, like I'm hoping for a Wally finding a Shiny Ralts moment. They liked adding humor to the roadblocks, why not the tutorials?

 
But the majority of the Ocarina tutorials can actually be skipped, and that's the difference. You can explore Kokiri Forest and talk to all the NPCs to learn valuable info on how the game works, or you can just get the sword, find 40 Rupees, buy the shield and start the first dungeon after like ten minutes. Your choice.

As for the catching tutorial, I'm not saying get rid of it, I'm just saying add the option to skip it. I also never said the Experience Share was bad per se, I just said I don't like how it's forced on you.
Navi talks to you very often Inside the Great Deku Tree. That is not skipable.

Though hey, out of all the tutorials we go through let's just be glad Pokemon doesn't tell us how we use the direction pad to move or it doesn't take several hour to go through *looks at Kingdom Hearts 2*.
And that's why I still haven't gotten very far in Kingdom Hearts 2.
 
I agree, skippable cutscenes and tutorials are some of the little things that can boost the replayability of a title, specially if it's a continuation in a franchise.

BTW I was not being mean, it's just that a couple of pages ago people where talking about how the game made stuff to easy, adding scalating moves or retyping a normal move into one that is able to be spread among early mons would eradicate any sense of difficulty caused by bad match ups, wich is pretty much the only "hard part" left on the games, just remember how easy the game feels with early rock smash on mienfo in XY or return in BW, it's potentially game breaking with little investment.

The badge system that was proposed although innovative just doesn't toggle with the concept of a move itself as badges boosting stats was seemingly abandoned post generation 1 if I recall. Innovation for the sake of innovation can potentially go into they improved it so much it's now forced down our throats territory wich may defeat the purpose of HM on itself and even limit team exploration more.
 
Caramel Prisoner Your comparisons of Pokemon to OoT (in terms of linearity) are a little unfair for one big reason: Pokemon is an RPG. If you are allowed to do things too much out of order in a Pokemon game, you run into the problem of being horribly over-, or worse, under-levelled at some points in the game.

I was actually talking to my brother about this the other day, with regards to the awesome Child of Light (go play it if you haven't), which is something of a throwback to SNES-era RPGs. About an hour into that game, you are given the ability to fly, having only previous been able to run and jump. You then fly right back over all the areas you have visited in the game so far, and over the top of a cliff that you couldn't get over before. At this point I thought, "cool, this is going to be some Metroid-style game where you keep acquiring new power-ups throughout the game and backtrack through previous areas to get to places you couldn't before." But... the game never gives you another power-up like that again; all abilities acquired from that point onward are strictly battle-focused, and the only reason to revisit previous areas are to complete sidequests. Anyway, I was moaning to my brother the other day about it, that had the whole game been like that it would have been a really cool idea, but he pointed out, "Why would you want to revisit the old areas again and again anyway? Wouldn't OHKOing every enemy be really boring?"

"Linear" is becoming a dirty word in the games industry. A game being linear is not always a bad thing.
 
I agree with what you're saying, and I'm aware of how you have to be careful to not give the player too much freedom. I'm merely talking about things that ARE forced, yet don't need to be. There's no reason you'll have to get the Experience Share that early, or get it at all. And note that I didn't criticize Alexa for blocking you before beating Viola.

It's kind of hard to explain, but what I'm on about is not making the game totally unlinear. Ocarina of Time is pretty linear itself - the only dungeons you get to do out of order are the last two before the final one. But the way that linearity is implemented is so much more satisfying. You can't get to Zora's domain before finishing Dodongo Cavern, for example. But it's not because the owl will come up to you and talk you out of going there. It's because the path is blocked by boulders you need to blow up with bombs you find in the cavern. I find this way of controlling the player's path satisfying because it gives you that "oh, NOW i can go there!" moment if you had happened to explore that part and took note of the boulders before getting the bombs. Speaking of the owl, it does actually pop up on Hyrule Field a couple of times when you venture in a direction you're not supposed to go yet, to tell you this is not where you're objective lies. But it doesn't keep you from still going there if you want to, even going so far as outright telling you to go wherever you want.

But that's beside the point. Ocarina doesn't have a leveling system while Pokemon does, so obviously you'll be much more limited in the latter. As others have pointed out before, an open ended Pokemon game just wouldn't work unless your opponents and wild Pokemon level up with you, and that's a whole different story.

While I would certainly enjoy design like that, I'm fine if the games don't go in that direction. But when playing a Pokemon game, I don't feel much like an adventurer even though that's a huge part of how the games are designed. Giving the player more choices, even if they're "unimportant" ones like getting a useful item now or later, would do a huge part in improving the experience in my opinion.

Note to the mods: I feel like this is kind of going off topic with all the Zelda talk, but I find the topic to be quite interesting myself. If there's any concerns about the discussion being in this thread, feel free to notify me and I'll open a new one about it.
 
After giving things some thought, Baby Pokemon have actually grown on me. While I maintain that the practical uses of getting one vary, and the fact that not a few require 220 Friendship to hit the middle stage sucks, it's incredibly fun and worthwhile to have, say, a Roserade you caught as a little Budew. There's a certain emotional connection, more so than with other mons, in seeing a small toddler mature.

(Disclaimer: this may have been influenced by getting a Huge Power Azurill before the first gym. Couldn't do squat against Viola, but an early STAB Return, even at the 45 BP or whatever it is with like 100 Friendship, is devastating.)
 
After giving things some thought, Baby Pokemon have actually grown on me. While I maintain that the practical uses of getting one vary, and the fact that not a few require 220 Friendship to hit the middle stage sucks, it's incredibly fun and worthwhile to have, say, a Roserade you caught as a little Budew. There's a certain emotional connection, more so than with other mons, in seeing a small toddler mature.

(Disclaimer: this may have been influenced by getting a Huge Power Azurill before the first gym. Couldn't do squat against Viola, but an early STAB Return, even at the 45 BP or whatever it is with like 100 Friendship, is devastating.)
As I said before, I feel that baby Pokemon are the perfect additions to a game when you want to have X Pokemon in the game to appear early but want to keep the game balanced. It's why I liked Budew appearing in DPPt and Azurill appearing in B2W2 right around the beginning of the game before you get the first gym badges. The problem is when they become obviously just there as dex filler and never appearing as such. Most of the baby Pokemon felt that way but others have come out of that status (like Azurill).
 
Azruill got way cuter for me once they dropped that scared-of-the-world sad face and replaced it with a model that bounces on it's own tail. That's adorable!

All the baby pokemon eventually grew on me (especially after the 3 free 31 IV mechanics but I'm big enough to admit I'm shallow). Heck, I like Smoochum and Mime Jr. more than their evolutions.

The same can't be said for some of the new evolutions though. The megas are one thing (especially since they're all temporary, so I forgive the more complicated designs), but some of the Gen 4 evolutions have still to win me over. Especially Rhypherior, man he's ugly. I don't care how popular knock-off is, I won't give up evolite Rhydon without a fight!
 
I doubt that's an unpopular opinion, just like kricketune, a moustache makes everything better. And probopass is badass enough to have a magnetic one, what's not to love?
Kricketune's best part was his original cry. I mean look at this comic



Oh, speaking of cries and unpopular opinions, I don't know how much of an unpopular opinion it is, but I honestly hate like most of the new cries they gave the Pokemon in Gen 6. ESPECIALLY the Pokemon from Gen IV and V. They ruined all the class and sass those cries had. Like Kricketune's is nowhere near as cool as it used to be.
 
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