To add to The Reptile's list of things that screw over the Whimsicott sub-seed set.
-Infiltrators of any sort, since they ignore the Substitute with
everything they do.
-U-Turn pairs: after something has taken the Sleep, Whimsicott is basically helpless against this, and can't get back the HP it's spending on Substitutes like it wants to. If it switches, you are of course U-Turning out to whatever can deal with what they switched in, putting Whimsicott's player into a no-win situation.
-Resttalk builds can simply soak the Sleep and use Sleep Talk.
-Perish Song bypasses the Substitute, and forces out the Sub-seed build.
Well, that's fun and all. But the metagame is stupidly centralised around this Cotton-ball-of-death. The fact that you either give it a free sub seed, or it u-turns into a counter is just horribly hard to build around. Yes, you have some underrated threats that can counter it, like Goodra, Gourgeist ect. But these pokemon are so close to useless in the actual metagame, this isn't Whimsicott being uncounterable, it's Whimsicott being Centralising.
Please stop ignoring the trillion ways you can effortlessly bypass the Subseed build. Please stop pretending Whimsicott is uniquely capable with Sleep+U-Turn: there are infinitely superior Pokemon out there for doing that, which nobody is crying foul about, not even you. Don't pretend Whimsicott is the only Pokemon capable of
both ends of things: Jumpluff can do it, with Infiltrator-backed Sleep Powder only functioning worse against Grass types, whom hard-wall a Subseed build anyway. (And Jumpluff can run with STAB Aerial Ace or Acrobatics to punch out Grass types, giving it an advantage there) And don't say something to the effect of "but Jumpluff is shitty and unviable", that's just bullshit. Jumpluff has more Speed, more bulk, a more useful attacking STAB to go with Subseed shenanigans, and even its typing isn't necessarily worse or less useful than Whimsicott's. All Whimsicott has over it, definitively, is Prankster (Which is largely irrelevant to the Subseed shenanigans at their nutty Speed tiers) and more in its offensive stats.
It's only centralizing if you stick your fingers in your ears and ignore all the things that ruin Whimsicott's day. The list is
long, and includes many things that are plenty viable
anyway. Sap Sipper, Soundproof, and Vital Spirit/Insomnia choices are just the few things that take Whimsicott from "OK" to "Actively a liability on your team". They are not the
only things that cause it major problems.
And if you're fixated on the idea that
oh no it can put something to Sleep, well, there's tons of things that can put problems to Sleep, many of which are actually, you know, threatening. Nobody's pushing for Mega Sceptile to be banned, and it's
way more threatening as a Subseed abuser.
Whimsicott is
annoying and, like Shedinja, can cause enormous problems for certain teams that
might be viable if it didn't exist, but honestly probably wouldn't be viable anyway.
You can even remove Goodra with Dugtrio if you want to build around Whimsicott.
Gourgeist is also a sleep counter btw, but the problem is that most sleep inducers outside of Whimsifluffball can hit it SE.
Also, things like Skarmory and Clefable just get put to sleep and then you switch or U-turn to a counter.
You switched in Skarmory or Clefable into Whimsicott
before it put something to Sleep, why?
Whimsicott doesn't get to choose what it puts to Sleep. Its opponent does. If you're letting your Whimsicott check/counter get to put to Sleep by Whimsicott, then you shouldn't be surprised when Whimsicott is a problem for you. It's not like Whimsicott is so threatening you don't want to switch non-counters into it. Even things weak to Moon Blast don't take that much damage from it.
Because Espeon and Xatu are literally garbage Ghoul, and the fact that you have to resort to using them shows how stupidly centralising they are. And I personally run taunt with support sufficient enough that I can handle both Diancie and Mega Sableye, it's been putting in insane amount of work
Who said you
have to "resort to them"?
My point is that you're misrepresenting the situation to play up Whimsicott's threat level by leaving out options that are problems for it, which is in line with your later post that continues to pretend there's only a handful of things that give Whimsicott trouble/allow teams to beat Whimsicott reliably, which is complete and utter bullshit.
If you think Whimsicott is hot stuff, that's fine, whatever. But you're actively misrepresenting the difficulty in dealing with it, and I don't care if you're right about Whimsicott being banworthy or not: excluding facts to support your argument is bullshit, regardless of whether your position is correct or not.
---
But seriously, can we get Dynamic Punch banned already? The
majority of my losses have revolved around Dynamic Punch Confusion hax, and I'm
tired of it.
