SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

Karxrida

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I'm going to go with the pragmatic (read: lazy) approach and say Kalos doesn't exist in those timelines. We never saw it without Mega Evolution, so it's probably not there.

The worst part is that even if I'm wrong I'm right due to their uninspired "infinite multiverses" implications. Technically anything we guess could have happened in at least one universe.
 
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Oh no, Kalos probably exists (as do the as-of-yet unknown regions of future generations). But it'd be very interesting to see this alternate Kalosian history, which, after all, is defined more or less entirely by the Ultimate Weapon and Mega Evolution.
 
Well we know that Xerneas/Yveltal were used for the weapon and that's what probably exhausted them back into their egg forms so I'm willing to believe that the two are almost wandering around Kalos doing whatever it is they're doing until they finally decide to go back or something. So expect a lot of random splotches of major death on the map and other random splotches of super life on it.
 

Pikachu315111

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Well we know that Xerneas/Yveltal were used for the weapon and that's what probably exhausted them back into their egg forms so I'm willing to believe that the two are almost wandering around Kalos doing whatever it is they're doing until they finally decide to go back or something. So expect a lot of random splotches of major death on the map and other random splotches of super life on it.
No, AZ used the life energy of the Pokemon strapped to the stone slabs on Route 10. Lysandre decided to use Xerneas/Yveltal since it wouldn't only be kind of too obvious what he's doing before he could proceed with his plan but using a Legendary's power he could fire off the weapon multiples times. As for why they were in their tree/cocoon form, well for Yveltal it was in a war with another kingdom for some reason and it probably was "killed" (though when killed it sucks in the life force of everything around it to turn into a cacoon). Not so sure about Xerneas, all I could find that at the end of its life span it releases all life energy and turns into a tree for 1,000 years.
 
I do ponder a Kalos that didn't have infinite energy, the mega-meteor missed, AZ's device flopped, and Lucario didn't say "Do you think dreadlocks would look good on me?"

Kind of grim to think about, but maybe without a major decisive event to end the war, it just raged in on and off flare ups with ever splintering kingdoms until the land descends into perpetual war and famine. So the reason we don't hear about Kalos in Gen 3 Hoenn or any other game on the non-mega timeline is because it is not a pretty place to be.

Or they solved the 100-years Kalos War through diplomacy and compromise creating a stable but tense peace until the more qualified leaders died out and less qualified sons took over, stretching negotiations to the breaking point when a Kantrian prince and his wife were assassinated on holiday in Sarajohto causing disaster dominos as old grudges and bad alliances forced war on the land and ended the reign of kings forever but a botched treaty by Unova just ensured a second conflict.
 
I do ponder a Kalos that didn't have infinite energy, the mega-meteor missed, AZ's device flopped, and Lucario didn't say "Do you think dreadlocks would look good on me?"

Kind of grim to think about, but maybe without a major decisive event to end the war, it just raged in on and off flare ups with ever splintering kingdoms until the land descends into perpetual war and famine. So the reason we don't hear about Kalos in Gen 3 Hoenn or any other game on the non-mega timeline is because it is not a pretty place to be.

Or they solved the 100-years Kalos War through diplomacy and compromise creating a stable but tense peace until the more qualified leaders died out and less qualified sons took over, stretching negotiations to the breaking point when a Kantrian prince and his wife were assassinated on holiday in Sarajohto causing disaster dominos as old grudges and bad alliances forced war on the land and ended the reign of kings forever but a botched treaty by Unova just ensured a second conflict.
I see what you did there. So the Americans are the ones who push for a harsh Versailles in this analogy? (Yeah, makes sense due to the lack of a Poke-Germany or England.)
 
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I believe that the steel type, the fairy type, the dark type and the mega evolution stones were only discovered by scientists at their relevant point in time.

I need to know the answer to this:

Does Kingler have one bigger claw than the other or are both claws the same size???
 

Pikachu315111

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So pika pal posted this comic on the "Little Things You Like About Pokemon" thread:



Once your done feeling depressed, that does bring up the question: WOULD that work? Thinking about it, the fossil reviving machine is poorly defined how much genetic material it needs. Like it can revive a Fossil Pokemon from a shell, claw, piece of the head, or feather. Those are all different kind of genetic material yet it still revives a Pokemon all the same.

So what about the skull and bone club that Cubone family have? Or the bone diaper and dress that the Vullaby family have? OR what if we took a bone from a Pokemon's body or cut off a claw/horn? Would that result in "reviving" the Pokemon they're from, and for the last one would it technically be a clone of the Pokemon?

Or am I overlooking something? Like it's not just the visible shell, claw, piece of the head, or feather that's important but also the rock its embedded in as that's where the rest of the fossil Pokemon's body had decayed thus you have the "whole" fossil Pokemon (which sadly would mean it won't work for Cubone as it only has the skull and femur bone).
 
If you look at the generational dimensions (Elementary, Connectivity, and Infinity), the Dark and Steel types were nothing new in Gens 3-5. The Fairy type seems like it was discovered in ORAS, which seems to be a prequel to XY. If they were actually discovered in the regions in-game characters claim them to be discovered in, then it's just gameplay and story segregation. Pokélogic at its finest
 
The additions of the Fairy type and Mega Evolution in the initial Gen 6 games were explained the exact same way as they were in the anime, as things first seen/discovered in Kalos. In Pokemon X & Y Dexio and Sina state that Fairy type is a new type that has only been recently classified, and in regards to Mega Evolution, Sycamore states in the game that examples of Mega Evolution have only been seen in Kalos. This allowed Pokemon X & Y to firmly co-exist with previous gens since the games explained why those two additions weren't seen in previous entries to the franchise.

The problem came when Ruby and Sapphire were remade, as those games take place years before the events of X & Y, so either some major retconning had to take place or GameFreak had to think up some new crazy away to allow Fairy Type and Mega's to exist in the time of Ruby & Sapphire when they had no business being there, and since GameFreak seem to really dislike retconning most (not all) things, otherwise so much shit from previous gens which don't make sense in this day and age, like Nidoqueen, would have been fixed by now, they went with option 2. Enter Delta Episode and Zinnia aka the Pokemon character I've seen get more hate than any other, people really don't like this girl. Her unproven (this is why people don't like her, you have to take her at her word even though she doesn't provide any evidence for her claims) musings gave GameFreak an out of retconning things, allowing ORAS to exist without conflicting with X & Y, because otherwise the two games are incompatible. This is without bringing up the whole Lucario vs Rayquaza thing.

Now, whether in future games GameFreak continues down the new timeline they created with ORAS or go back to the X & Y timeline is up in the air, but I bet they'll follow the ORAS one, especially since an anime version of Red & Blue, which take place at the same time as Ruby & Sapphire, was created in order to tie Mega Evolution to Gen I.

TL;DR Remakes are the cause of all the timeline problems in the franchise. Come at me remake fans. :mad:
 
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Pikachu315111

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I've always had this weird theory when it comes to newer games introducing new concepts (some which they even say is a new development) yet when they remake an older game those concepts and present. I call it the "Time Ripple" theory and it goes like this:

Whenever a new thing occurs in the Pokemon universe concerning the Pokemon species, like a new type or evolution, at that moment it creates a "ripple origin"; it's where the ripple will "start". Those living at the time of the "ripple origin" will confirm this is a new thing that has just developed and no previous records have been found to say otherwise. However that doesn't last long.

Like if you throw a pebble into a body of water, ripples start to spread out. What this means for the "Time Ripple" theory is all those "ripple waves" are flowing through time and space and rewriting things so that these new concepts did exist in the past and will continue to exist in the future.

"But wait, won't this alter the future?" Yes, as the "ripple wave" passes through timelines it changes the past so that type is common place in past people lives and records of that concept will be written. Them doing this creates a "ripple wave" of its own which eventually reached the "ripple origin" thus these records now start to exist there.

"But then won't the people at the "ripple origin" not act as if its a new thing?" Yes and no. For people at the "ripple origin" it'll still feel like its a new thing but as the various returning ripple waves hit the knowledge of that concept will suddenly be remembered having existed. However since the concept was made "common place" in the past, that means in the present its an unexplored concept.

So, putting my theory into practice, XY is a "ripple origin". It introduced the concept of Fairy-types and Mega Evolutions among other things. ORAS is RSE that has been affected by a "ripple wave", thus why they treat Fairy-type and Mega Evolution as common knowledge. We're looking at things from an outside perspective so we can see the order of events (as in the form of game releases), but to the characters in the Pokemon world those in the past are slowly being rewritten to have this knowledge while those at the "ripple origin" are just realizing this concept exists, suddenly remembering that they already knew that, which only feeds their curiosity as to why these concepts haven't been explored further before thus they start. It keeps the order of the Pokemon universe in a way to keep things stable yet ever changing (and give a reason why GF can make remakes but keep in the new concepts). Of course this does mean that every new generation (or even every new game) does possibly make the previous gen "obsolete", but only in the details as the overall story is still there and established in the Pokemon world, we just don't know what the story is.

... I feel like I'm trying to explain String Theory with Pokemon terms...
 
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String theory...aw no...

With the idea about pokemon returning to their poke balls because they want to not their trainers, well, from what I know about the anime, you should take it with a pinch of salt (since Ash's Pikachu managed I take down an onix) so Jessie's wobeffett may be one of a kind.
 

Pikachu315111

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With the idea about pokemon returning to their poke balls because they want to not their trainers, well, from what I know about the anime, you should take it with a pinch of salt (since Ash's Pikachu managed I take down an onix) so Jessie's wobeffett may be one of a kind.
Well in the anime there been multiple times when a Pokemon would just pop out of their Poke Ball when they feel like it so it's not just something Wobbuffet does (just most well known for). And in HGSS, as discussed, any of your Pokemon willingly pops in and out of their Pokeball depending on their size and the place your walking around in. Also in BW, after Team Plasma made a speech in Opelucid City, Iris says Pokemon can leave whenever they want though I personally question that.
 
The main thing Meowth does make me wonder about: the implication is that any Pokemon could, given time and practice, learn how to speak Human language. Could that work in reverse, such that a human, through mannerisms or whatever witchcraft is at work, could communicate just by repeating a single word in Pokemon Speak?

In real life Biology, despite our perceived intelligence and logical thinking, humans are still part of the animal biology kingdom. Along that line, are humans themselves Pokemon in some manner in-universe? Biologically, things like greater muscle power could be attributed to having the move "Strength" or other such connections. As for Physical variation, other Pokemon species such as Spinda, Unown, Vivillion, etc. all display variation in their Physiology despite all being a Single Species of Pokemon. Humans have been shown as capable of fighting with certain Pokemon, and are devices like Prods or Swords in anyway different than things like Cubone's Bone Club or Farfetch'd's Stick?

In theory, maybe humans aren't distinct. Maybe we're just ourselves Pokemon (with shit BST or Movepool).
 
The main thing Meowth does make me wonder about: the implication is that any Pokemon could, given time and practice, learn how to speak Human language. Could that work in reverse, such that a human, through mannerisms or whatever witchcraft is at work, could communicate just by repeating a single word in Pokemon Speak?

In real life Biology, despite our perceived intelligence and logical thinking, humans are still part of the animal biology kingdom. Along that line, are humans themselves Pokemon in some manner in-universe? Biologically, things like greater muscle power could be attributed to having the move "Strength" or other such connections. As for Physical variation, other Pokemon species such as Spinda, Unown, Vivillion, etc. all display variation in their Physiology despite all being a Single Species of Pokemon. Humans have been shown as capable of fighting with certain Pokemon, and are devices like Prods or Swords in anyway different than things like Cubone's Bone Club or Farfetch'd's Stick?

In theory, maybe humans aren't distinct. Maybe we're just ourselves Pokemon (with shit BST or Movepool).
Doesn't N speak Pokemon? I haven't played BW and never finished BW2, so I'm not sure. I also may as well direct you to a certain Game Theory episode.
 

Codraroll

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I made a theory once that Pokémon speech works on a different level than human speech. We use meaningful words to convey a message, because the message requires words to be understood. Pokémon can speak in meaningless words, since in their speech, what you intend is the important part and doesn't need a vocabulary or sentences to be conveyed. It's "reading between the lines" taken to the logical extreme, making the actual lines irrelevant. Just spout gibberish or use human language, what you say is not important. Humans would be incapable of catching the intention without having it spelled out for them, but Pokémon interpret messages on the fly. Essentially, that would make it impossible for a Pokémon to lie, which is shown not to be the case, but I thought it a decent theory nevertheless.

It also fits curiously with Jynx speaking only gibberish that not even other Pokémon can understand (as shown in the PMD games). Their language seems mutually understood, but indecipherable to others. Their speech must be similar to human speech, with a message conveyed only through words, with nothing between the lines whatsoever. N having the gift of understanding a Pokémon's intention also fits the theory like a glove.
 

Pikachu315111

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The main thing Meowth does make me wonder about: the implication is that any Pokemon could, given time and practice, learn how to speak Human language. Could that work in reverse, such that a human, through mannerisms or whatever witchcraft is at work, could communicate just by repeating a single word in Pokemon Speak?

In real life Biology, despite our perceived intelligence and logical thinking, humans are still part of the animal biology kingdom. Along that line, are humans themselves Pokemon in some manner in-universe? Biologically, things like greater muscle power could be attributed to having the move "Strength" or other such connections. As for Physical variation, other Pokemon species such as Spinda, Unown, Vivillion, etc. all display variation in their Physiology despite all being a Single Species of Pokemon. Humans have been shown as capable of fighting with certain Pokemon, and are devices like Prods or Swords in anyway different than things like Cubone's Bone Club or Farfetch'd's Stick?

In theory, maybe humans aren't distinct. Maybe we're just ourselves Pokemon (with shit BST or Movepool).
Well we've seen, at least in the anime, Pokemon speak human via telepathy (and not just Psychic-types). Also its mentioned that though Meowth learned to speak human, in order to do so he pretty much spent all his experience doing so (which is why he can't learn Pay Day and I'm sure other moves). So, for at least Pokemon in the same situation as Meowth (Pokemon without anything special about them), they can learn to speak but through lots of hardship and at the cost of becoming a "better Pokemon" so its probably seen by other Pokemon to not be worth it (besides the only Pokemon who would need to speak human is usually trainer Pokemon but the trainer usually understands what their Pokemon is trying to say so it's not needed).

As for humans learning to speak Pokemon, well we don't really need to. Pokemon understand human or at least what a human is trying to convey, it's just that Pokemon are instinctual so if they go on a rampage they're mentally deaf to anything they deem as a threat. And some people CAN speak Pokemon, N and I think its hinted at Anthea and Concordia to a small degree. But aside from knowing exactly what the Pokemon is saying I honestly don't see that much of a bigger benefit.

As for Pokemon and human relation, according to Sinnoh Folk Tales at one point humans and Pokemon were considered indistinguishable and ate at the same dinner table... in the English version, the Japanese version said they MARRIED. Of course this is just a folk tale but the idea does have to come from somewhere.
 

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