Just because they're clones doesn't mean they all have to be the same clone-there could be different variants
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Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter Captain Skywalker
- Start date
According to SWBFII the Empire started cloning other people and opened up recruitment shortly after the Kamino rebellion. But that's not canon anymore :'^)
In Episode 4, Luke mentions wishes to join "The Academy" to receive training from the Empire to get off of Tattooine, and in Star Wars: Rogue Squadron the training missions are actually given by an Imperial officer -- probably a route many soldiers of the Rebellion may have taken.
As for Finn, it was pretty clearly stated he was taken from his parents at birth, which would imply that Finn was... birthed.
In Episode 4, Luke mentions wishes to join "The Academy" to receive training from the Empire to get off of Tattooine, and in Star Wars: Rogue Squadron the training missions are actually given by an Imperial officer -- probably a route many soldiers of the Rebellion may have taken.
As for Finn, it was pretty clearly stated he was taken from his parents at birth, which would imply that Finn was... birthed.
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destinyunknown
Banned deucer.
I have the theory that this movie would have been 10x better if it was a parody. I mean Kylo Ren already looks like a parody, and the new Death Star having the same security holes as the first one was kinda ridiculous too. If they had just tried to parody everything it would have worked better honestly.
The film already is a parody! Most people in the cinema I was in laughed more than any other Star Wars films!
This happened a long time ago, before the invention of the iPhone. Weren't you paying attention at the very beginning when the screen said "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"?
ok so they can create SUPER DEATH PLANETS and ships that travel at light speed but fingerprint recognition / locking is just above them technologically
I enjoyed the movie but to me it was completely carried by the old characters (Han, Leia, Chewbacca, C3PO, R2 and Luke at the end...) so it's really just riding the coat tails of an established story so far without adding anything too interesting for me. Plot holes galore, the cheesiest fucking thing was watching Finn duel Kylo Ren having no experience with a lightsaber, I think someone in this thread already mentioned that. Rey at least had experience using a melee weapon so I could forgive that part. I also enjoyed the part when Finn looked all bewildered when hearing Han Solo say that the force is real and shit as if Finn had not seen Ren stop a blaster shot with his hand like the day before lmao.
Rey and Finn are okay characters. Well acted but mediocre script, undeveloped and uninteresting so far but its the first movie so I understand. Kylo Ren is actually probably the best new character in my opinion as he shows a more realistic side of what "bad guys" usually are: insecure pathetic weenies. The movie had a lot of fun battle scenes, too.
All in all it's nothing more than fun and not worth throwing the far more interesting Expanded Universe in the trash, but I'm gonna do my best to not be bitter and take the new movies for what they are.
Rey and Finn are okay characters. Well acted but mediocre script, undeveloped and uninteresting so far but its the first movie so I understand. Kylo Ren is actually probably the best new character in my opinion as he shows a more realistic side of what "bad guys" usually are: insecure pathetic weenies. The movie had a lot of fun battle scenes, too.
All in all it's nothing more than fun and not worth throwing the far more interesting Expanded Universe in the trash, but I'm gonna do my best to not be bitter and take the new movies for what they are.
destinyunknown
Banned deucer.
Agree with most things you said, but nitpicking:
-The old characters didnt carry the movie, it's more like they just were there for nostalgia factor and marketing. So I guess you can say they did carry the movie, even if they were absolutely useless and didnt influence the plot at all. And that's a very bad sign.
-Rey and Finn have zero character development and it feels like they rewrote them for each scene. Finn is aparently against killing (we dont know why, no reason given) but then all of a sudden he's ALL into killing his older comrades, even though he knew that they had the same circumstances as him. What's the reason for that? Did the rest of storm troopers hurt him in any way? Makes no sense.
As for Rey, we are only told she was abandoned at birth and was treated like shit all her life. However for some reason she goes out of her way to help an unknown droid and is the nicest girl on Earth. And lets not talk about how she goes from not knowing how to use the force to manipulating people minds in 2 minutes. So plausible.
I think my favorite part of the movie is the performance by the new characters. John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, and Oscar Issac were absolutely brilliant in their roles and I can't wait to see more of these characters.
What? I didn't get that vibe at all. Yes they were prevalent in the movie(Especially Han and Chewie) but I felt like the movie leaned more on their new characters. On the down side though, the parallels to Episode IV were damn near impossible to ignore. It bothers me and it's very safe but it's a solid foundation for the future of the trilogy in my opinion. Episode VIII will hopefully not be a parallel to Empire Strikes Back. At the very least, it's infinitely better than the prequels and it's safe to say, Star Wars is back.
I agree with you 100% on thinking that force powers should have been better developed and Yoda should have been shown to be so much more powerful without the use of a lightsaber. However, using the force to perform well past your physical limitations is a power in its own right, and Yoda IS a better duelist than Count Dooku in my opinion and by general consensus. You say he was brushed off with ease but with that said he was STILL putting Dooku on the defensive and I am of the opinion that Yoda would have defeated Dooku in a straight up fight had he not been forced into the position of having to save Obi-Wan and Anakin. Dooku wasn't even confident enough in his abilities against Yoda to "sucker punch" him so to speak while he stops a massive pillar from falling. "Dooku realized he was not the strongest after all." from the AOTC novel. So he played dirty and left. That's getting away from the point of this thread but Yoda is my favorite character so I just had to say my part haha.
Also @ above, I don't really see how you could say the old characters were useless and didn't influence the plot at all? Han Solo influenced nearly every important plot point and was easily one of the most important characters in the movie if not the most important. Also the original characters carried the movie for me because in a film with nearly no character development, I'm much more interested in the characters that have been previously developed. But also yeah it was just really fucking cool to see Ford, Fisher, And Hamill play their same characters from decades ago. That too.
they're space nazis as opposed to innocents dude
destinyunknown
Banned deucer.
According to the film, the storm troopers were mainly children taken from their parents, as in Finn's case. Therefore, Finn knew that his former comrades were just like him, so there was no reason for him to try to kill them. Especially considering Finn's reason for leaving was ''I dont want to kill people''. Then why does he start killing people the second right after? If he just said ''I want to get vengeance on the leaders of the First Order'' or whatever then it might have been fine... but the character is so underdeveloped, they didnt even made him show that feeling.
The issue is, the character gets rewritten from one scene to another shamelessly. We have 2 Finn's in the movie, with no transition between personalities:
-The one that leaves the First Order because he ABSOLUTELY doesnt want to kill anyone
-The Finn that suddenly wants to kill everyone because of some reason we arent told (yeah he was taken as a child... but nothing else is said about his past, and it still doesnt justify why he goes from ''i love peace'' to ''i want revenge'')
So basically, if they had stick to one character over all the film, or they had taken one AND then had spent time showing his past and the reasons why he changes his mentality, it would have been fine. But as it stands, he is a cardboard character that is changed every scene just for plot convenience.
-poor misunderstood stormtroopers :(
-why would a conscientious character like finn possibly want to shoot back at them :( it makes me uncomfortable :(
destinyunknown
Banned deucer.
I don't mind discussing the movie even with someone so clung to his fanboyism, but at least read my posts before quoting them and dont derail the thread with spam, ty
Because Finn clearly has expressed that he doesn't like the act of war and comrades dying. That was the point of the first scene. Him shooting isn't too kill its too protect his mates.
Edit: the First Order aren't human in the sense they have no regard for life and are in fact "evil"
Edit: the First Order aren't human in the sense they have no regard for life and are in fact "evil"
I'd like it if you didn't derail the thread with the stupidest questions on earth man, why is Finn now killing Stormtroopers? What'd they do to hurt him? Read a plot synopsis if you were in the god damn bathroom for half the movie lmao
The First Order is god damn evil, dude, they'd take organs from a baby, every single appearance follows with a merciless massacre, I seriously have no idea what movie you watched
I have read your posts but now I realize that I probably understand your own point of view better than you do so here is its flaw spelled out: Finn and Rey become heroes because of empathy
It's a mysterious energy that binds us, penetrates us, surrounds us and can be found within all living things
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I liked the acting. Did you know that the person who played Finn is British, even though he out on an American accent? Also, the movie is deliberately hinting that Finn and. Rey (at least Rey), are descendents of some of the original members of the gang. I believe that it is Luke Rey is related to, otherwise she wouldn't have been so good handling a light saber. Also, Kylo Ren is a supposed to be weak in comparison to Darth Vader.
destinyunknown
Banned deucer.
I'm not talking about the acting, I think it is actually good, except on some characters like Leia, but I think Leia looking awful in the movie is more the script's being bad than the actress' fault.
As for Rey, the character is likeable, maybe because its a copypaste of Luke on ep IV, but...
I mean, a random stormtrooper is better than Kylo Ren at handling a lightsaber, after having the amazing amount of 0 minutes of practice (inb4 Finn is Mace Windu's long lost grandchild). Nah but seriously, Luke took almost 3 movies, and a ton of practice with Yoda and the Jedi spirits in order to become good at handling a lightsaber. And Anakin took less time, but still a lot, in order to become able to control the force and the lightsaber properly, even with tutoring of various Jedi masters.
And now in this film we get how Rey learns to use the force in a far more powerful way than Anakin or Luke in 5 minutes she's trapped on a chair, and then is able to beat Kylo Ren on her first time using a lightsaber. And Kylo Ren was supposed to turn to the dark side after becoming too powerful and saying that he wouldnt improve more under his tutor Luke.
Looking at all that, I think it's more likely than Kylo Ren was a failure of a student and had to run away in shame of being laughed at because he's like the less powerful Jedi/Sith in all the saga, at least the rest could kill stormtroopers and droids.
To be honest, Kylo Ren looks less a villain than a nerdy teenager that watched the Star Wars movies and thought ''Darth Vader is so cool, im gonna cosplay as him and buy a lightsaber so i'll be the most bad ass guy on my high school class and get all the gurls''. And seeing his '''''powers''''' then its not unlikely he's actually that.
And seeing as how you're responding to everything with irony, I'm just gonna asume by empathy you mean plot convenience, sort of like how the force works on star wars movies.
Ok let's try again, this time using your empathy argument. Finn, and the other stormtroopers, were mostly childs taken from their families. Finn didnt want to kill people so he ran away. Then he becomes a hero by the power of empathy. But doesnt empathy work mainly by ''understanding other people's feelings/suffering''? Then he should be MAINLY empathizing with the people that suffered the same as him, aka, the rest of storm troopers that were taken from their families and are forced to fight in war. If Finn is a hero due to the power of empathy, why doesn't he empathize with them and tries to liberate them instead of killing them on sight without a remorse?
Maybe not the leaders but storm troopers like Finn are supposed to be humans that are forced to follow orders.
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First of all, I wasn't replying to you about the acting. Second of all, Finn lost in that fight to Kylo Ren I don't know what you're talking about and Finn isn't some random storm trooper he may actually be related to one of the other characters.
If you disregard the order of events and purposely make the circumstances/settings/purpose of said events as vague as possible, it's not difficult to make different stories, well, similar. To be honest, the terrible (yet once popular) fantasy book "Eragorn" is closer to A New Hope than The Force Awakens is, especially when it comes to the circumstances/settings/purpose of the vague hero's journey plot points used against The Force Awakens...
For example, the Kenobi vs Solo comparison. Solo died in the final act trying to sway Kylo Ren from his path to the dark side. Kylo Ren was conflicted, and there was a chance he would have turned. He didn't, so he killed Solo. This had much different effects all around, too--e.g., Solo's death probably hurt Kylo Ren more than it helped (hence his mediocre performance against Finn and Rey; I'm also certain the bowcaster blast didn't help, but I digress). In Kenobi's case, he died before the final act. He directly engaged Darth Vader with no intent of persuasion. He used Darth Vader's killing blow to become a Force ghost, in order to help Luke. In honesty, the only similarity is a mentor/old hero dies to spur the protagonist into action; it's a classic trope of the hero's journey, and the vague description used to criticize The Force Awakens is simply too much of a grasp at straws. Gandalf's death in Lord of the Rings is more similar to Kenobi's death in A New Hope than Solo's death in The Force Awakens. Heck, even Eddard Stark's death in A Song of Ice and Fire satisfies the vague conditions presented...
The Force Awakens was similar to the original trilogy, yes. There are plot points similar to A New Hope, yes. But that's because it's not only set in the same universe as the original trilogy, it is a new story with new protagonists.
(On another note, I do wonder the last time those who claim The Force Awakens is [of varying degrees] a retelling of A New Hope with different characters watched A New Hope [and the other films, I suppose]. I watched the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy within the weeks prior to seeing The Force Awakens and don't agree with the retelling criticisms. Not to mention seeing the original storytelling [mostly tell, not show; e.g., bragging about Luke's piloting skills compared to Rey showing us her talent], dialogue, acting, and so on really shows how much The Force Awakens improves on the originals while keeping the Star Wars formula.)
For example, the Kenobi vs Solo comparison. Solo died in the final act trying to sway Kylo Ren from his path to the dark side. Kylo Ren was conflicted, and there was a chance he would have turned. He didn't, so he killed Solo. This had much different effects all around, too--e.g., Solo's death probably hurt Kylo Ren more than it helped (hence his mediocre performance against Finn and Rey; I'm also certain the bowcaster blast didn't help, but I digress). In Kenobi's case, he died before the final act. He directly engaged Darth Vader with no intent of persuasion. He used Darth Vader's killing blow to become a Force ghost, in order to help Luke. In honesty, the only similarity is a mentor/old hero dies to spur the protagonist into action; it's a classic trope of the hero's journey, and the vague description used to criticize The Force Awakens is simply too much of a grasp at straws. Gandalf's death in Lord of the Rings is more similar to Kenobi's death in A New Hope than Solo's death in The Force Awakens. Heck, even Eddard Stark's death in A Song of Ice and Fire satisfies the vague conditions presented...
The Force Awakens was similar to the original trilogy, yes. There are plot points similar to A New Hope, yes. But that's because it's not only set in the same universe as the original trilogy, it is a new story with new protagonists.
(On another note, I do wonder the last time those who claim The Force Awakens is [of varying degrees] a retelling of A New Hope with different characters watched A New Hope [and the other films, I suppose]. I watched the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy within the weeks prior to seeing The Force Awakens and don't agree with the retelling criticisms. Not to mention seeing the original storytelling [mostly tell, not show; e.g., bragging about Luke's piloting skills compared to Rey showing us her talent], dialogue, acting, and so on really shows how much The Force Awakens improves on the originals while keeping the Star Wars formula.)
1. Eragon isnt a bad book, it's good and it 's nothing like Star Wars
2. Gandalf isn't anything like Kenobi
3. Why have we started to reference fantasy novels/films? This a sci-fi film
4. Even though the original movies were in my head, the only thing which reminded me of a new Hope was the new Death Star Planet.
5. I agree that the dialogue was better than George Lucas's.
No more negativity about the Force Awakens please!