Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)

Do you approve of J.J Abrams directing the movie?

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 42.2%
  • No

    Votes: 9 20.0%
  • Neutral

    Votes: 17 37.8%

  • Total voters
    45
  • Poll closed .

WaterBomb

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Why does everyone keep saying Finn left because he doesn't want to kill 'anyone'? He left, obviously, because he didn't agree with slaughtering innocent villagers. I'm sure you'd get the same attitude from most military soldiers around the world, who do not want to kill unarmed civilians but will kill to protect themselves if they are being attacked.
 

destinyunknown

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Well, maybe Eragon and A New Hope are similar because A New Hope didnt have an original plot in the first place. George Lucas took a lot from other fantasy adventures, especially on the structure and characterization. So it was basically a fairytale in a space sci-fi setting.

Which is kind of fine, its a way of rehashing a story to a new universe and setting, while offering really innovative special effects and other stuff like the great soundtrack, which are the things that made Star Wars succesful 40 years ago. The problem with The Force Awakens is that it copies directly its own predecesor, only changes the names of places/people, and adds 2 scenes, and there you go, a new movie. All that while removing any character development the original movie had, and not providing any innovative effects or tweaks, like, for example, a new type of army or new / different spaceships. We just get a bigger Death Star, great.

Why does everyone keep saying Finn left because he doesn't want to kill 'anyone'?
Maybe because he literally said so...
 
1. Eragon isnt a bad book, it's good and it 's nothing like Star Wars
2. Gandalf isn't anything like Kenobi
3. Why have we started to reference fantasy novels/films? This a sci-fi film
4. Even though the original movies were in my head, the only thing which reminded me of a new Hope was the new Death Star Planet.
5. I agree that the dialogue was better than George Lucas's.

No more negativity about the Force Awakens please!
I'm not sure you understand my post or the point of the comparisons...

1. The quality of Eragon isn't my point. The plot progression was. I can't speak for the later books (having not read them), but the first one is incredibly similar to A New Hope. There are points where it is almost scene-for-scene, and the characters are simply high fantasy versions of Star Wars characters...

2. I didn't say Gandalf was like Kenobi, I said the circumstances/purpose/result of Gandalf's death was closer to Kenobi's death in A New Hope than the circumstances/purpose/result of Solo's death in The Force Awakens. Gandalf, the wise and powerful mentor of the Fellowship, fights (and is killed by) an equal opponent (the Balrog was an evil/corrupted Maia, while Gandalf is a good Maia) in order to allow the Fellowship to escape (otherwise they would have perished). Gandalf even comes back with more allowances after his sacrifice...

3. Storytelling exists outside of the setting and characters and much of anything else. Good storytelling depends on more abstract concepts. Fantasy and science fiction often are more similar than different. (And to be honest, I watch Star Wars as a fantasy story with robots and lasers; it's simply too absurd/unrealistic to frame it as simply science fiction; the suspension of belief simply isn't there if I were to do that.)

I think The Force Awakens is superior to the other movies (original or prequel) overall, and excels in very crucial areas incredibly well. I don't see where I'm being negative about it.

Well, maybe Eragon and A New Hope are similar because A New Hope didnt have an original plot in the first place. George Lucas took a lot from other fantasy adventures, especially on the structure and characterization. So it was basically a fairytale in a space sci-fi setting.

Which is kind of fine, its a way of rehashing a story to a new universe and setting, while offering really innovative special effects and other stuff like the great soundtrack, which are the things that made Star Wars succesful 40 years ago. The problem with The Force Awakens is that it copies directly its own predecesor, only changes the names of places/people, and adds 2 scenes, and there you go, a new movie. All that while removing any character development the original movie had, and not providing any innovative effects or tweaks, like, for example, a new type of army or new / different spaceships. We just get a bigger Death Star, great.
A juvenile description of any work will show incredible similarities between otherwise distinct works. That was the point of my post. While Star Wars isn't known so much for the plot, it's incredibly misleading to simplify the story to a featureless skeleton, as well as disregarding the improvements in characters and such (seriously, the amount of complaints about Rey being a Mary Sue make it seem like I watched a different movie). The Force Awakens is not simply a reskin of A New Hope with two scenes outside of extreme exaggeration.
 
I don't really think the description was that vague it was actually incredibly specific in some instances right down to (literally) the same character (Leia), same ship, and (virtually) the exact same weapon (Death Star versus Big Death Star.) Exact same lightsaber. Darth Vader versus weenie Darth Vader.
 
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Martin

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Darth Vader didn't have that cheating device on his lightsabre, and he was more mature (only a little more tho). Beyond that tho yeah they're the same character.
 

vonFiedler

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I don't know how anyone with a straight face can say that The Force Awakens had worse character development than A New Hope. Maybe that's blind nostalgia, or an inability to see scope, or just plain not paying attention to this film. I'm sure it varies from person to person. The only common factor is that the notion is objectively wrong. The bulk of character development in the original trilogy came from The Empire Strikes Back. When you compare 4 to 7 (and you have to, because to the film's only detriment it is just the same plot), you get this:

Han Solo, babyfaced white guy who just wants money, vs Finn, former storm trooper whose motivations are clearly complex enough that people can argue over them.
Princess Leia, who seems resilient for being a damsel in distress, vs Rey, a scavenger with personality, capability, and backstory.
Darth Vader, a somewhat cool mook, vs Kylo Ren, whose qualities no one is arguing about.
Obi-Wan Kenobi, a guy who no 4 year old cared about when he died, vs Han Solo, the now fully realized and loved character.

Then there's Luke, who is brought up first every time someone argues about bathroom sign characters.

Every character from Episode 4 pales in comparison to their depiction in Episode 5. And that's ok, because that's just time and continuity. But it is possible to do better. Episode 7 did better.

It's baffling that the same people who complain about 7 being so similar to 4 also complain that Rey's development isn't exactly like Luke's. Yes, Rey is already shaping up to be an awesome Jedi. We don't need 3 movies for her to do that because that's been done. And when you compare her to Luke, nothing she's done is implausible. There is little Luke didn't teach himself, including pulling the Lightsaber out of snow and force-sensitive flying. We only ever see Luke fail at raising his X-Wing out of the swamp. He can deflect blaster shots while blindfolded almost immediately. We never see him try to learn the Jedi Mind Trick, so what's wrong with seeing that now? You act like it's a master technique when it's literally called a trick. It's the first feat I take in every Star Wars game, and Rey hardly does it flawlessly on her first try.

The same goes for Finn, who is more at original trilogy Luke's level. Because yes, he's gonna be using the force. If that wasn't obvious when both of them bro-fisted after their force-guided escape from not-Tatooine, it should have been obvious when he used a lightsaber at all. And even then he loses both to Kylo Ren and to that stormtrooper with the dumb electro-hammer that makes little sense if there are generally no Jedi to fight. Because he's a cynical character with little faith. He questions the force even after seeing it in action. Rey, on the other hand, beams when talking about old legends, and basically seems like an adopted puppy when Han suggests that she work with him. All it takes to (somewhat) beat Kylo Ren is the reminder that the force exists. Because she has a great deal of faith in it and Kylo we've seen wavers constantly.

Should she have beaten Kylo Ren? I don't know how that's a question people even need to ask when this is the best lightsaber fight yet, by far. I need to rewatch the film, but it may be one of the best fight scenes in film history. If it's good, why does it need to be questioned? Again, people who wish this film wasn't so much like 4 also want Kylo Ren to be exactly like Darth Vader. Intimidating, then overpowering, before finally being defeated/redeemed. But he's not, and thank god. The Force Awakens is about three characters awakening to the force. Even the villain is in need of training. He's more Zuko than the Fire Lord, and that's fantastic.

People often compare Finn to Han Solo, and Rey to Luke Skywalker. They definitely have some similar character traits and plot relevance. But I think on a far more important scale people have it backwards. Finn, like Luke, is the everyman. He's literally not a person at the start, and it's his drive to get away from not-Tatooine that propels the plot. It's him that insists on saving "the princess". And like I said, he is force-sensitive much in the way that Luke was. Rey on the other hand is our Han Solo. Our unrealistically cool character that we want to look up to. She gets not-Luke off of not-Tatooine, in the Millennium Falcon no less. But, like Han, she is not without flaws. Until the end of the movie she has literally no drive. She only looks to the past, hoping for things to happen in her life that won't. Maybe it's a flaw people don't like to see in her because most people don't like to see it in themselves. Anyway, she develops through that by going to see Luke at the end. Who knows where she will go from here. I have high hopes though.
 
I don't really think the description was that vague it was actually incredibly specific in some instances right down to (literally) the same character (Leia), same ship, and (virtually) the exact same weapon (Death Star versus Big Death Star.)
I disagree, but I see @vonFielder's point and I'll just stop this conversation now.
 
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UncleSam

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Rey is the protagonist of this movie. This trilogy (or more?) is clearly going to be her story, just as the original trilogy was Luke's story. That is why it is far more accurate to compare her development with Luke Skywalker than to anyone else. You can't line the characters up because Disney has cleverly cut up the original character trio and re-assigned the pieces so as to hide the fact that the only new aspect to any of the characters as compared to their Star Wars counterparts is that Finn was once a stormtrooper (a fact that, as I pointed out, never has any real significance because the manufactured tension created by his hiding this fact is obviously never going to materialize because it can't without one of the supposedly 'good' characters becoming an asshole).

I'd refer you to my previous post for more extensive reasoning, but the main reason that Rey doesn't grow to nearly the extent Luke did in Star Wars is two-fold: 1. She never fails at or struggles with anything and 2. She has no mentor figure. With respect to 1. it took Luke two movies, two masters, and a dozen different training sequences to reach the point in force acumen that Rey achieved by closing her eyes and grimacing. With respect to 2., while Han Solo was great in this movie for other reasons, his death was about Kylo Ren, not Rey. That is also one of the main reasons that Kylo Ren feels like the far more complete character and the only new character who struggled with or grew in this film.

Upon reflection this movie is getting worse for me, not better. I suspect the major reason for this is that there is no really memorable scene in the movie for me outside of maybe Han's death (and even that felt like a shadow of Obi Wan's death, which wasn't even one of the best scenes in Star Wars). There wasn't even a single line of dialogue that I suspect people will quote thirty years from now.
 

vonFiedler

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Rey is the protagonist of this movie. This trilogy (or more?) is clearly going to be her story, just as the original trilogy was Luke's story. That is why it is far more accurate to compare her development with Luke Skywalker than to anyone else. You can't line the characters up because Disney has cleverly cut up the original character trio and re-assigned the pieces so as to hide the fact that the only new aspect to any of the characters as compared to their Star Wars counterparts is that Finn was once a stormtrooper (a fact that, as I pointed out, never has any real significance because the manufactured tension created by his hiding this fact is obviously never going to materialize because it can't without one of the supposedly 'good' characters becoming an asshole).
"Rey is the protagonist, so she's Luke"

Because different movies don't have different kinds of protagonists.

I'd refer you to my previous post for more extensive reasoning, but the main reason that Rey doesn't grow to nearly the extent Luke did in Star Wars is two-fold: 1. She never fails at or struggles with anything and 2. She has no mentor figure. With respect to 1. it took Luke two movies, two masters, and a dozen different training sequences to reach the point in force acumen that Rey achieved by closing her eyes and grimacing. With respect to 2., while Han Solo was great in this movie for other reasons, his death was about Kylo Ren, not Rey. That is also one of the main reasons that Kylo Ren feels like the far more complete character and the only new character who struggled with or grew in this film.
You are still just saying "it's different from Luke, so it's bad" when you're the same guy who moaned about the rest of the plot being the same.

Upon reflection this movie is getting worse for me, not better. I suspect the major reason for this is that there is no really memorable scene in the movie for me outside of maybe Han's death (and even that felt like a shadow of Obi Wan's death, which wasn't even one of the best scenes in Star Wars). There wasn't even a single line of dialogue that I suspect people will quote thirty years from now.
Ob-Wan's death, which wasn't one of the better scenes, pales in comparison to Han's in about a dozen different ways. The audience has much more understanding and love for Han as a character, something which might be undeserved praise if this film also didn't go out of its way to further his character, but we also understand Kylo Ren and his conflict much more. It's also such a massively fucking clever inversion of "it's hard to be good" that it drags the whole movie up by its boot heels.

The destruction of Corescant is amazingly well done. Only hindered by the knowledge that JJ destroyed another important planet in his last sci-fi reboot. But this was much better done than that and the original Death Star use.

And, fuck man, I've seen that "quotability" shit used before, that's so god damn shallow. How about whole scenes dude? The two-staged lightsaber fight makes everything in Star Wars before look like a joke. Yes, the prequel fights were bad because they lacked emotion, but this fight had so much to it while being excellently choreographed and shot. I want to see this movie again in theaters just for it. It's your whiplash moment. Any movie with that is worth something.
 

UncleSam

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I never demanded Rey be the same or even similar. All protagonists are, however, valid points of comparison. I'm saying that her story is no where near as powerful or memorable as Luke's was to this point.

The only way in which Obi Wan's death in the moment is worse than Han's is because Han as a character we inherently care about from the original trilogy. The scene in which Obi Wan died, however, was more powerful in terms of the dynamics of the film. He let Vader strike him down not only to allow Luke and co. to escape, but to prove a point to Vader. There was more going on in terms of character dynamics because Obi Wan was a much more important character to Star Wars than Han was to this movie; Han's only real relationships within this movie were to Leia, Chewbacca, and Kylo Ren.

Coruscant wasn't destroyed in this movie though you can be forgiven for thinking it was due to how little explanation there was as to the nature of the new Republic; the system which was destroyed was the Hosian system. That scene carried little to no emotional weight because the audience had no reason to care outside of the fact that people who were ostensibly good were being massacred. It was remarkably similar to one of the big missed opportunities of Star Wars in the destruction of Aldaron, actually. Though at least two people we knew (Leia and Obi Wan) cared about or noticed that, while no one did in TFA.

I don't see what's shallow about pointing out that there weren't any legitimately great scenes in a movie. The two-staged lightsaber fight was not nearly as well choregraphed as the Duel of the Fates, which also had a far more impressive score and general atmosphere. Similar to the Duel of the Fates the characters involved had little in the way of relationships to one another, and so it was in essence a fight devoid of emotion, thus ranking it far below the superior Luke/Vader duels in both Empire and Jedi. That being said I have high hopes it will set the stage for future duels between Rey/Ren that will carry far more weight.

This movie is worth something, it's a good and fun action movie. But it's the fourth-best Star Wars movie and isn't even particularly close to the top three.
 

vonFiedler

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Han's only real relationships are ones that exist only by blood or wookie slavery? What about being the closest thing to a father figure that Rey ever had? Or the guy who lost his life helping Finn save Rey? You're doing what amounts to sticking your fingers in your ears to deny the most basic character connections in the movie, so no wonder scenes that were powerful for being emotionally charged are lost on you. Didn't you see the anguish in Finn and Rey at the end? It was close to Strikes Back levels.

I don't really know if it's better or worse than A New Hope, the first two-thirds don't stand out as much as the last. But damn, it's close. Star Wars is back. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
 
One thing I didn't get was that the light saber of Luke was blue in the Force Awakens, but in other media it is green!
that is luke's original lightsaber (which in turn was anakin's). luke made a new one for episode 6 after he lost his old one when he lost his hand to vader.

i keep reading debates comparing trilogies/episodes and whatnot but i don't think we can accurately judge the force awakens until we see the entire new trilogy. there are way too many questions to be answered right now, while we're comparing backwards when we know everything about previous stories.
 

Yeti

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You trippin if you think Rey doesn't = Luke who also doesn't = Anakin. 4-6 are the hero's journey of Luke specifically but 1-6 are the fall and redemption story of Anakin. Rey is the new Luke because she's now on the identical hero's journey he was... trademarked by the Lack of Family/Father Figure. Rey is not equivalent to Leia simply because they are both women. If anything Poe is the new Leia (vital info, puts it in the scene-stealing droid, kidnapped, rescued by people wearing Stormtrooper uniforms... then he becomes more like Luke piloting).

The SW trilogies are about the Skywalkers which is why I am pretty sure Rey is an Anakin granddaughter, most likely through Luke. Anakin's lightsaber calling to her is like the biggest hint she's related to him imo. Kylo Ren wants it but he's not considered a worthy holder, or as worthy as Rey who is seemingly much stronger at the Force, naturally, than him.

It's hard to tell how different they are going to make Rey from her ancestors in her hero's story arc. Anakin is the fallen hero, Luke is the very archetypal hero who almost falls but ultimately resists temptation... I actually think Rey's purpose is going to be a sort of reverse-Anakin wherein she's meant to bring balance to the Dark Side/Kylo Ren... her calmness and stability contrast heavily with his overemotional rages and outbursts. Qui Gon/Obi Wan thought Anakin was supposed to bring balance to the Force by destroying the Dark Side but would that ever truly be balanced? I think Rey is going to bring balance to the Dark Side so it's not used for such malevolent purposes and the rage is controlled. Then you'll have Kylo Ren as a protagonistic Dark Side Force user and Rey as a protagonistic Light Side Force user after 9 ends.

TFA itself is a very heavy copy of ANH. Predictably so. The movie plays way, way too safe. That makes it hard to assess it against the other six movies until 8 and 9 are out. It's easy to say how well 1-6 do because they all have their endings told, 7 has 2 more movies to complete its story and answer all the questions we currently have.

I really hope 8 pays more attention to the political side of things because it's fairly difficult to tell what the ruling climate actually IS currently. I don't think the political stuff in 1-3 was THAT bad just there was too much sitting and (grand)standing talking to people about it. So I do hope 8 gives us some more information on how powerful the First Order/Resistance actually are and if there's a Senate-entity at play again.
 
i keep reading debates comparing trilogies/episodes and whatnot but i don't think we can accurately judge the force awakens until we see the entire new trilogy. there are way too many questions to be answered right now, while we're comparing backwards when we know everything about previous stories.
I agree, we need to see the other 2 before we can judge this one so fast. We are rushing into judging the film when we don't know what the writers/directors purpose of it will be.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that we are supposed to be feeling emotion whenever someone dies. That scene where they massacre all those people and destroy a whole system-even though it was a random star system,we still are meant to feel something because people are dying/have died! It doesn't matter if we don't know them!
 
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cant say

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Sorry to bring up an old argument, but I've seen the movie a couple times now and I don't remember Finn ever saying that he left because he "doesn't want to kill anyone." He told Poe that "it's the right thing to do" and then that was pretty much it iirc (if I'm wrong please tell me lol). He didn't kill anyone at the start because they were all innocent, and fought back against the other storm troopers later because he was being fucking shot at to start with (and if they captured him they'd pretty much kill him for being a traitor anyway). We see the storm trooper with the hammer thing, I think we can assume they all learn to use that as part of their training, which can explain his rudimentary light saber skills (coz come on he really wasn't good, just fuckin swung the thing around like crazy). everyone's upset that Rey wasn't outright destroyed by Ren in their fight, but I thought it was kinda obvious he wasn't trying to beat/kill her, him and Snoke wanted her alive so they could turn her over to the dark side, Ren offered to teach her and everything. it's also possible that he could just be a shitty swordsman since he would have learnt most of it from Luke before he went nuts, and I'm pretty sure Luke never had a proper light saber teacher either...

ngl I'll see this a third time probably next week after after my girlfriend's sister finished watching the original saga (she joined in during our ROTJ portion of our marathon before TFA and loved it lol) and I'm still kinda excited to watch it....

oh also vonFiedler I fucking loved your posts man, I'll be referring a few irl friends to them when I try explaining myself lol.
 
Sorry to bring up an old argument, but I've seen the movie a couple times now and I don't remember Finn ever saying that he left because he "doesn't want to kill anyone." He told Poe that "it's the right thing to do" and then that was pretty much it iirc (if I'm wrong please tell me lol). He didn't kill anyone at the start because they were all innocent, and fought back against the other storm troopers later because he was being fucking shot at to start with (and if they captured him they'd pretty much kill him for being a traitor anyway). We see the storm trooper with the hammer thing, I think we can assume they all learn to use that as part of their training, which can explain his rudimentary light saber skills (coz come on he really wasn't good, just fuckin swung the thing around like crazy). everyone's upset that Rey wasn't outright destroyed by Ren in their fight, but I thought it was kinda obvious he wasn't trying to beat/kill her, him and Snoke wanted her alive so they could turn her over to the dark side, Ren offered to teach her and everything. it's also possible that he could just be a shitty swordsman since he would have learnt most of it from Luke before he went nuts, and I'm pretty sure Luke never had a proper light saber teacher either...

ngl I'll see this a third time probably next week after after my girlfriend's sister finished watching the original saga (she joined in during our ROTJ portion of our marathon before TFA and loved it lol) and I'm still kinda excited to watch it....

oh also vonFiedler I fucking loved your posts man, I'll be referring a few irl friends to them when I try explaining myself lol.
This is what I've been trying to tell everyone! You are like 99% right I'm sure of it-Finn wasn't good with the light saber and he didn't say all that stuff.
 
I know this bugged me until I found it, so this (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Korr_Sella) is the chick that they zoomed in on with the destruction of the Hosnian System. The Force Awakens Visual Dictionary covered her in more detail, as she was Leia's main intermediary between the Resistance and the New Republic. She was sent to Hosnian Prime to warn them that the New Order was getting more threatening.

Also, if you are interested, the Force Awakens novel has a few more additional scenes not shown in the movie that are listed here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Force_Awakens_(novel)

I spend an unhealthy amount of time on wookieepedia.
 
God damn, the New Republic capitol was already destroyed? Extremely silly that they'd gloss over something like that.
 

Karxrida

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Good movie movie overall. Definitely flawed because of how much nostalgia is being milked, but I think it was a necessary evil to play it safe. Now they can be free to do whatever in the next two movies because they've already stolen from Hope and Empire so much. Let's hope they start taking risks.
 

Yeti

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I didn't actually think it was that much like the originals.


you might want to brush up on your critical/literary analysis skills if you think 7 isn't SUPER safely copied from 4. slightly 1. mostly the OT. like i just am not sure how you can not make the connections 7 takes SO much from the prior movies...

the 'rents and i marathoned 1-6 and we're going to see 7 again tuesday. ugh we watched 2 a day so watching 3 and 4 back to back is just like painful how many minor errors there are in continuity. george lucas did TOO MUCH COCAINE between 6 and 1. fried his memory of his own movies. rofl.

my sphero bb-8 comes tomorrow too i'm excited to explore the west coastgalaxy with him.

i think kylo ren is perfectly written to be anakin's grandson. and related to luke who is super whiny in 4. the major difference is anakin is SOOOOO LOW ENERGYYYYY and he never gets a moment where he's excited like he was in 1 in 2 or 3. man he would have been so much better if he wasn't like tranquilized for 2/3 of the trilogy. but kylo is def just as whiny and angsty. rey is more like 1 and first-half-of-2 padme and leia. makes sense the women are the sensible, level headed ones and the men are emo kids i guess at least they're consistent.

hux is probably the worst miscast of 2k15. ugh i just.. don't know what anyone was THINKING. he looks so young........ how does anyone buy him as a SUPER HIGH RANKED GENERAL he looks like he just left his undergrad frat lmfao. all the generals in 4-6 look like, 40s or older. believable. his actor is barely 30 and doesn't look it so the character was just so uncredible to me especially next to the also-young kylo ren. like.. snoke is into barely legal boys or something.
 


you might want to brush up on your critical/literary analysis skills if you think 7 isn't SUPER safely copied from 4. slightly 1. mostly the OT. like i just am not sure how you can not make the connections 7 takes SO much from the prior movies...

the 'rents and i marathoned 1-6 and we're going to see 7 again tuesday. ugh we watched 2 a day so watching 3 and 4 back to back is just like painful how many minor errors there are in continuity. george lucas did TOO MUCH COCAINE between 6 and 1. fried his memory of his own movies. rofl.

my sphero bb-8 comes tomorrow too i'm excited to explore the west coastgalaxy with him.

i think kylo ren is perfectly written to be anakin's grandson. and related to luke who is super whiny in 4. the major difference is anakin is SOOOOO LOW ENERGYYYYY and he never gets a moment where he's excited like he was in 1 in 2 or 3. man he would have been so much better if he wasn't like tranquilized for 2/3 of the trilogy. but kylo is def just as whiny and angsty. rey is more like 1 and first-half-of-2 padme and leia. makes sense the women are the sensible, level headed ones and the men are emo kids i guess at least they're consistent.

hux is probably the worst miscast of 2k15. ugh i just.. don't know what anyone was THINKING. he looks so young........ how does anyone buy him as a SUPER HIGH RANKED GENERAL he looks like he just left his undergrad frat lmfao. all the generals in 4-6 look like, 40s or older. believable. his actor is barely 30 and doesn't look it so the character was just so uncredible to me especially next to the also-young kylo ren. like.. snoke is into barely legal boys or something.
I said I didn't think it was that much like the 4th episode because that was not what was going through my mind when I was watching the film. Yes, I understand that it is now. But really, the format of that episode was fine so it's whether or not you liked the 4th episode or not.
 
The worst part about this is the wait: we have to wait till 2017 (in May I think) before episode 8 and it's going to be such a long wait. They seem to be taking their time with these movies and, to be honest, that can be a good thing as they should put more effort into it. I believe that is why episode 7 turned out so good (or at least for me)
 

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