Metagame NP: Stage 13: Free The Animal (Hoopa now RU)

[SotheBlacKnight]

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Earthquake / Psywave
- Toxic / Hidden Power [Ice]

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Circle Throw
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

So this is a defensive core I've been using to get a decent rank on the ladder and it's pretty good. Poliwrath as mentioned by BrandonBeast above is just a great tank in the current meta and handles all the big drops rather well. Bronzong is actually a pretty decent partner for wrath, taking Grasses, Fairies, and Flyers while Poliwrath just eats most Fire types and Dark types. Though most of Bronzong's duty is to deal with things like Mega Abomasnow, Flygon, and Normal Spams. It's however weak to Delphox and Medicham so I run Spiritomb along side this to take them out, though I can see Grabull and Slowking being extremely helpful to this core.

 

[freezai]

Samurott @ Lum Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Megahorn
- Swords Dance

Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Poison Jab

This is a pretty cool water spam core that I've been using. The idea is that you can use one to wear down the counter of the other and the sweep. Basically, it works to overwhelm the opposition by stacking threats and using their combined might they can topple over something that would normally hard counter 1, but not both at a time. Alternatively Sharpedo and/or Samurott can be made specially attacking for a variation of the core. I would say this core is pretty comparable to Feraligtr and Mega-Sharpedo in UU.

EDIT: I meant to say that most of the moves are pretty variable, just use what you want to beat the specific set of counters. That's what's so good about the core, its versatility along with its ability to overwhelm. But yea I probably should've mentioned that.

 

[Lord Death Man]

Just a recommendation - that core still has notable trouble with Poliwrath. Have you considered using Zen Heabutt on Sharpedo? It still hits Virizon (notable threat to a rott sweep) but also hits Poliwrath, and Tangrowth is likely tanking it either way. Special/mixed shark can also be useful to take on Mega Steelix from full. It's pretty cool, and I'm sure we're all coming to the conclusion that water is a great typing in this meta, with strong picks (offensive and defensive) available. While Zen doesn't usually 2hko physically defensive Poliwrath, you're otherwise hard walled by it. Grass Knot on Samurott also achieves this, but I think dropping SD rott is a bigger opportunity cost.

Also fairies are sort of set-up bait for lum Samurott.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Manectric is certainly going to be an annoyance for Mega Steelix and buff offensive playstyles.

And can we also appreciate the fact that all three original Starter Pokemon are in the same tier for the first time in Smogon history?

 

[Lord Death Man]

Sun looks really cool with these drops. Every single one has a decent to good position on a sun team and it's the first time I've ever considered making a team with every drop together. Even Manetric looks nice-ish for sun because of fire move access, though if I drop any it will probably be that.

Also can't wait to fight Red teams on the ladder!

 

[kjdaas]

I was not at the start of RU and joined a month before venomoth dropped to RU, but maybe some bl2 pokemon can be suspected. I know that we have new drops, but maybe some bl2 pokemon can be helpful for the tier. I looked at the list and found one pokemon, imo, that is not too great in the tier and that is Froslass. Froslass can be run as an offensive spike setter in this tier, but can also kill all Tyrantrum sets with sash and 184ev in special attack. With 120ev in special attack it can kill off sharpedo after whatever speed boost, when sashed and running T-Bolt. When rocks are on the field, Froslass will be killed by these mons, but that is why a hazard remover is needed. You can also run LO and that maybe the preferred item, but I didn't play RU at that time and my metagame knowlegde is not that high atm.Other BL2 Pokemon that maybe could be suspected are Shuckle, great hazard setter, or Yanmega, can break through even if they resist his stabs but it might be too powerful. I would love to hear your opinions about Froslass and other BL2 Pokemon.

Also I think Manetric will be a great addition for HO, Venusaur can be a more offensive amoongus and vileplume but I don't see it being great at it, Charizard is a better Typhlosion but is also outclassed by Houndoom and Delphox, I don't know anything about Diancie and I will probably don't use it because it can't fit in my favourite playstyle HO. Btw this is my first informative post so it may be bad.

 

[MrAldo]

None of the BL2 will "help" the tier since they are all really unhealthy/broken since the current metagame has already some many threats that trying to reintroduce mons like froslass which polarized the metagame forcing you to just run offense, yanmega which was a threat to every playstyle and made psychic types virtually unviable (and let me tell you how GOOD of an idea that is with a huge amount of fighting types around) and shuckle basically powering up every wallbreaker in the tier with guaranteed sticky webs.

No, moltres is stupid. Slowking is forced to run assault vest, aerodactyl and tyrantrum cant take 2 hurricane from scarf moltres after stealth rock and blastoise; diancie and the rest are destroyed by the sunnybeam set.

No, stop the freaking witch hunting, focus on discussing the drops and leave the retest discussion for later ffs. Sorry to minimod but had to intervene before this got out of hand.

Now, on the drops, manectric looking amazing:

Manectric @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat

A set as simple as this one can cause so much trouble cause the electric checks that we used to handle jolteon for example wont work as well against manectric. Strong fire coverage is huge for a electric type since it destroys mons like mega steelix, mega abomasnow and does a huge chunk to virizion if it attempt to switch into. This is gonna be fun. Could see rhyperior becoming more common due to this but that isnt even a safe bet since it could even run something like hp grass or water, only time to tell.

 

[eren]

me, atomicllamas, and passion made some teams with Diancie before it dropped and played with it quite a bit so i guess ill post our sets.

PASSION (Diancie) @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Rock Polish / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Diamond Storm

This is the simplest of the Diancie sets, which is Rock Polish or a lure variant. This set is the easiest to play, weaken your checks and fuck shit up with RP later. Or you can lure a bronzong for a potential teammate, such as Abomasnow, which pairs just as well with the last set.

252 SpA Life Orb Diancie Moonblast vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 192-227 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
16 Atk Life Orb Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 164 Def Slowking: 142-169 (36.1 - 43%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery

byakugou (Diancie) @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Earth Power / Hidden Power [Fire]

Now this thing is a monster versus another defensive team that doesn't have a bronzong, which I bet we will see a lot more usage simply because of how fucking good this set is. The set moves are very straight forward, Sub, Calm Mind, STAB, and coverage in Earth Power or Hidden Power Fire. With the moves being mostly self-explanatory, I'll go over the EVs that me and Lord Death Man made. The Speed on this Diancie allows you to outspeed 4 Alomomola, or 0 speed Alomomola if you are running Hp Fire, as well as even set up on it.

0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Diancie: 62-74 (20.3 - 24.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

Now this is very signifcant as while Alomomola checks the first and last sets (albeit not too well), bar Stealth Rocks and Spikes in play, it falls flat versus this set.

LLAMAS IS CUTE (Diancie) @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Hp
Quiet Nature
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Earth Power / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Diamond Storm

The cutest of the sets, this set plays a bit similarly to the first set. Bring your Diancie in with some VoltTurn or on a double, set up TR, and destroy Offense teams. This set plays so well with other TR breakers like LO Emboar and Healing Wish users like Mesprit, which is a great partner to both Diancie and Emboar.

252+ SpA Life Orb Diancie Moonblast vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 211-250 (42.1 - 49.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Diancie Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 96+ SpD Slowking: 142-168 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery

Diancie is a fucking monster in summary, two of its sets destroy offense with its titanic bulk and set up opportunities, while the second one fucks stall in the ass if it has ways to lure Bronzong. Diancie forces severe preparation by stall as well as some sort of way to pivot into both RP and TR Diancie sets by offense, which is just obsene. May be just me, but Diancie is S Rank undoubtedly.

Cute Diancie cores:
HP Fire Diancie + Abomasnow
TR Diancie + Abomasnow
SubCM Diancie + Tspikes Roselia
HP Diancie + Tyrantrum
Diancie + Magnet Rise Magneton (which traps Bronzong easily)
Diancie + Qwilfish
Diancie + Gurdurr

Hope my post helped those looking to make a team or use Diancie in general

E:
[19:17:23] passion: slurmz
[19:17:24] passion: you forgot
[19:17:37] passion: psyshock coverage
[19:17:37] passion: which 6-0d you that one time

 

[EonX]

Ok, time for my thoughts on the new drops:

Manectric

Manectric is an interesting case. The fire coverage is huge and I can see it being a huge breaker of defensive cores in the tier. Scarf sets will also be a nice little addition to HO teams due to the incredibly high Speed and good coverage with BoltBeam. That being said though, I think a Life Orb set will be Manectric's best one overall. With T-Bolt, Flamethrower / Overheat, and HP Grass, Manectric can break just about every defensive core in the tier and still have the Speed to be threatening to quite a few offensive threats. I honestly don't like HP Ice on Manectric unless it's Scarf since the Scarf guarantees Manectric can outspeed Scarf Flygon. HP Water may also be kind of cute for Mega Camerupt.

Venusaur

Venusaur is interesting. I think it will take the spot of Vileplume where an offensive Grass-type is needed but with the secondary Poison-typing. Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, Sleep Powder, and Synthesis can be a very good overall set that can be used with a more offensive spread or a more defensive one. More offensive variants will probably look into using HP Fire over Sleep Powder. However, Chlorophyll sets I think will be extremely threatening. Sun has always had plenty of tools to succeed in RU. Great setters in Uxie, Liepard, and Regirock. Powerful Fire-types in Emboar, Delphox, and Houndoom. However, we've never really had that one Chlorophyll user that just outspeeds everything and has bulk to take stray priority / resisted hits before.... That is, until now. Venusaur has everything needed to succeed with Sunny Day. Growth / Sunny Day, Giga Drain / SolarBeam, Sludge Bomb, HP Fire is all it needs to decimate tons of things in the tier. Sleep Powder has a possibility of being used with Growth since you can put something to sleep that would otherwise beat you, but HP Fire helps more I think. Overall, this should be a very threatening mon.

Diancie

Diancie is a curious case. I think it will be solid, but that low HP is bothersome. Everything else about it is just fine. Great defenses, solid offenses, enough of a movepool to utilize multiple sets. It can set Stealth Rock, utilize Rock Polish (barely) run more of an offensive tank set, utilize SubCM, and even set and abuse Trick Room. Diancie will probably be the trickiest of the new drops to get the most out of simply because of its unique stat spread. 600 BST, but with a heavy focus on defense at the expense of HP and Speed. Really looking forward to trying it.

Charizard

Idk about you guys, but I think Charizard has a little bit of potential in RU. At first glance, it just seems like a Typhlosion with Flying STAB, but when you look deeper, it's much more than that. With Sun being more viable than ever thanks to Venusaur and Diancie (and Manectric to an extent) Solar Power sets might have a chance to shine with insane wallbreaking power. Outside of Sun, Charizard also has Dragon Dance and Swords Dance to pose a threat physically. While it is, in many ways, a worse Fletchinder, it has a few edges. Access to powerful Fire STAB and Earthquake instantly sets it apart from Fletchinder as this means Zard has next to no issues with Steel- and Rock-types. It's definitely the weakest of the new drops, but I think Charizard has at least some potential in RU between powerful Solar Power sets and potential SD / DD sets.

 

[col49]

full disclosure, im definitely grateful for how this meta has been panning out, n i would've loathed to have to play the pre-King / aboma meta in a 'serious' environment; the new stuff has continued to round out and diversify the tier in unique, but still controlled ways, which is ultimately what I think you should strive for in a lower tier unless forced to act otherwise. zard will likely end up droppin (special sets r pretty high-mainentance n struggle to distinguish significantly from other fires, and while wisp sd has basically everything but prio on fletch, that's kinda huge), but the remainder look neat. in spite of a moderate dearth of grass poisons, venu speed and dmg output gives it a defined niche as a tankier alternative to rose / amoonguss, and that same bulk and speed make it less fundamentally inconsistent in a sun environment when contrasted to victreebel. manec is somethin I think is too frail and slow to be consistently overbearing to any singular style of play, but the whole fire coverage + can carry lo and still be fast thing will force balance to be a bit less lax w/their electric responses, since ya can't throw your spdef-heavy grass or lix at it n call it a day. still have plenty of grounds to suppress, enough support for hp grass or ice to be a legit decision, I like it here. while diancie can do some cute stuff in a bulky offense setting, I find its defensive implications are the most significant, b.c having that active special fire check is the biggest thing, and its flexibility on defensive builds (cuz it can run heal bell to decent enough effect) really varies the types of forms [semi-]stall can take.

 

[eren]

I think it will take the spot of Vileplume where an offensive Grass-type is needed but with the secondary Poison-typing.

albeit many players will now disregard vileplume, i don't think this to be the case, as vileplume fulfills something much different from the set you mentioned. it carries moonblast and aromatherapy, the key aspects that separated it from amoonguss to begin with. its the only grass/poison that can reliably take care of scrafty reliably, which is pretty neat if i do say so myself, while still pivoting into waters and aromatherapying for your team. while usage will drop significantly, definitely not outclassed by Venusaur

also i completely forgot the boom sr set and the defensive set for diancie, sigh rushed post rofl

 

[Cheryl.]

Don't get too excited about Zard folks, NU wants it bad.

Magneton @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

So Magneton is pretty cool in this meta, as two of the drops (Diancie and Venusaur) like having Steel types gone. A lot of stuff that are cool right now, like Meloetta and Aerodactyl, also like Steel types gone, so Magneton's niche is amplified, making it really good right now. It's also pretty diverse, from it's Choice Specs set, to a Choice Scarf revenge killing set, or even Magnet Rise to fuck up MegaLix and Bronzong even more. Overall, while Magneton's problems are still here, it's still a remarkably good mon due to the amount of mons that like Steel-types gone.

Also here's a cool Venu set for y'all:

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow / Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm / Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power Fire / Sleep Powder

This is basically the offensive tank Venusaur you'll see on most Bulky Offense teams using Venusaur. Leaf Storm hits everything but resists hard, but Giga Drain can be used for some recovery and no drawbacks. Sludge Bomb hits Fairies and Grass types, and Synthesis gives Venusaur realiable recovery. HP Fire is good to hit Steel types, but Sleep Powder can be used to cripple switchins. Overgrow can be used to power up Grass STAB if Venu's health is low, but with all the sun teams bound to run around, Chlorophyll is probably the better option.

Diancie is also a really cool partner to Venusaur as sun teams can use Diancie's access to Sunny Day, and Diancie walls the Flying and Fire types that threaten Venusaur, while Venusaur can beat Water and Grass types for Diancie.

 

[Jaguar360]

RU seems pretty friendly to Zard overall from what I can tell. My favorite set so far is SubRoost, which is pretty much a more defensive version of Moltres' set.

Charizard @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 156 SpD / 104 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

With the EV spread, Alomomola's Scald will not break the Substitute. This Zard set can check Fighting types, Mega Rupt, Mega Lix, Abomasnow, Grass types, etc after scouting for any unfriendly Rock moves. Without any Heatran or Tentacruel in this tier, Zard can pretty much set up Substitute, poison the Fire resists and Flamethrower everything else. This set seems really nice.

I have some low-ladder replays for now showcasing how it functions and will hopefully be back with better ones if I have time.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-313780960 - Stalls out Normal Gem Hitmonlee (which didn't have Stone Edge thankfully), uses Sub to scout for Ancient Power on Cammy, and comes in on Cofag to poison it before dying

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-313783125 - Comes in on Mega Steelix early on, screws around with Rotom behind Sub, scouts for Anc. Power Tangrowth with Sub (didn't have it thankfully), slowly wears down Emboar and finally gets good damage off of a Blaze Flamethrower on Exploud before dying

As for other sets with Zard, I have a Sunny Day + 2 attacks set that I've been testing and it seems pretty solid, but more situational than SubRoost. The main reason I put it on my team was to have counter weather to Abomasnow since I didn't want hail getting in the way of CurseVenu's Synthesis, but it's not a bad wallbreaker either. I think that in most scenarios, Delphox and Houndoom are better special Fire types, but Zard's access to Roost, the Ground immunity and its power under the sun seem significant enough for it to warrant a slot in certain cases.

Charizard @ Leftovers
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Roost

Replays:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-313786131 - Zard proves useful as a switchin to Hitmontop and Clefairy and breaks Clef with Sun-boosted Flamethrowers with having Roost and Leftovers to recover against it. Venu also puts in work and would have lived the +1 Head Smash without the crit -_- (+1 252+ Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Venusaur: 223-264 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-313793264 - Zard pressures the team early game, then comes in on Hitmontop later on to get a Solarpower on the switch on Slowking. Venu provides defensive support throughout and is ready to sweep before the forfeit.

There are lots more sets I'd like to try in RU with Zard, including Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, Tailwind and Roost + 3 attacks. I'll report back once I do so.

Now on Venu...I think it will make a mark in RU. Curse is a really good set for it in this tier and it gets a lot of setup opportunities. Its main downfalls are its vulnerability to burn as a bulky Water check and Synthesis in a meta where Mega Aboma is key, but it's great otherwise and it can defensively support its team by having Knock Off or Roar in its 4th slot. I haven't tried other sets yet, but Chlorophyll sets seem like they could be good with Zard in the tier. I think that straight up defensive sets would be outclassed by Amoonguss for the most part, but Roar access + Knock Off could differentiate it a bit.

Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Synthesis
- Power Whip
- Knock Off

 

[Take Azelfie]

RU seems pretty friendly to Zard overall from what I can tell. My favorite set so far is SubRoost, which is pretty much a more defensive version of Moltres' set.

Charizard @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 156 SpD / 104 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

With the EV spread, Alomomola's Scald will not break the Substitute. This Zard set can check Fighting types, Mega Rupt, Mega Lix, Abomasnow, Grass types, etc after scouting for any unfriendly Rock moves. Without any Heatran or Tentacruel in this tier, Zard can pretty much set up Substitute, poison the Fire resists and Flamethrower everything else. This set seems really nice.

I have some low-ladder replays for now showcasing how it functions and will hopefully be back with better ones if I have time.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-313780960 - Stalls out Normal Gem Hitmonlee (which didn't have Stone Edge thankfully), uses Sub to scout for Ancient Power on Cammy, and comes in on Cofag to poison it before dying

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-313783125 - Comes in on Mega Steelix early on, screws around with Rotom behind Sub, scouts for Anc. Power Tangrowth with Sub (didn't have it thankfully), slowly wears down Emboar and finally gets good damage off of a Blaze Flamethrower on Exploud before dying

As for other sets with Zard, I have a Sunny Day + 2 attacks set that I've been testing and it seems pretty solid, but more situational than SubRoost. The main reason I put it on my team was to have counter weather to Abomasnow since I didn't want hail getting in the way of CurseVenu's Synthesis, but it's not a bad wallbreaker either. I think that in most scenarios, Delphox and Houndoom are better special Fire types, but Zard's access to Roost, the Ground immunity and its power under the sun seem significant enough for it to warrant a slot in certain cases.

Charizard @ Leftovers
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Roost

Replays:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-313786131 - Zard proves useful as a switchin to Hitmontop and Clefairy and breaks Clef with Sun-boosted Flamethrowers with having Roost and Leftovers to recover against it. Venu also puts in work and would have lived the +1 Head Smash without the crit -_- (+1 252+ Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Venusaur: 223-264 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-313793264 - Zard pressures the team early game, then comes in on Hitmontop later on to get a Solarpower on the switch on Slowking. Venu provides defensive support throughout and is ready to sweep before the forfeit.

There are lots more sets I'd like to try in RU with Zard, including Dragon Dance, Swords AnceTailwind and Roost + 3 attacks. I'll report back once I do so.

Now on Venu...I think it will make a mark in RU. Curse is a really good set for it in this tier and it gets a lot of setup opportunities. Its main downfalls are its vulnerability to burn as a bulky Water check and Synthesis in a meta where Mega Aboma is key, but it's great otherwise and it can defensively support its team by having Knock Off or Roar in its 4th slot. I haven't tried other sets yet, but Chlorophyll sets seem like they could be good with Zard in the tier. I think that straight up defensive sets would be outclassed by Amoonguss for the most part, but Roar access + Knock Off could differentiate it a bit.

Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Synthesis
- Power Whip
- Knock Off

you forgot Fury Cutter bro 0/10 bad set

But in all seriousness Diancie is really optimizable, Damage Calc is going to be your best friend when using this. I'll put some benchmarks for you guys

Earth Power

232+ SpA Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 72 SpD Mega Steelix: 172-204 (48.5 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 290-342 (86.8 - 102.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock RIP

Moonblast

104+ SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
44+ SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 284-336 (94.3 - 111.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

156+ SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonlee: 242-288 (100.4 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

80+ SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Druddigon: 180-212 (50.8 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO AV
92+ SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Druddigon: 192-228 (53.6 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Defensive

Diamond Storm

112 Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 150-177 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

92 Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 288-338 (100.6 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

40 Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Delphox: 294-348 (101 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

28 Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 120-144 (38.3 - 46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Also Toxic is good on Diancie as it can poison pokemon like Blastoise, Claw, Jellicent, Seismitoed, Uxie, Aromatisse
May post more

 

[eren]

back with part 2 of the diancie sets, cuz this mon is so versatile rofl. here are the defensive and offensive rocks sets.

Diogo is sogeking (Diancie) @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Heal Bell
- Diamond Storm
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast

step one: have sigilyph
step two: lure fire
step three: either hard switch or double into diancie
step four: free turn!

this is exactly the sequence of events that can give you the turns to fire off your decently strong attacks, set up rocks, or heal up your team. yeah, diancie is god.

Edit:
[19:11:54] @EonX: +3 252 SpA Life Orb Virizion Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie in Sand: 221-265 (72.9 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
[19:13:57] @EonX: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 80-94 (26.4 - 31%) -- 13.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Kableye (Diancie) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm

18:48:59] cosmo's midnight: eonx i am posting offensive rocks with boom
[18:49:08] @EonX: wait
[18:49:13] @EonX: !learn diancie, explosion
Diancie can learn Explosion
[18:49:23] @EonX: why is this thing's movepool so much trash
[18:49:33] @EonX: it's like virizion
[18:49:42] @EonX: like literally, its usable movepool is so fucking small
[18:49:46] @EonX: but exactly what it needs

another great set for more offensively inclined teams. it can even save its boom for late game for when your opponent loses a boom resist. it does what every diancie does so not much to explain other than random logs!!!!!

 

[Miyami~~]

Sun seems super good right now. Even if it's not, I'm having a blast with it. Here's the sun sweeping duo I've been using.

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Spa / 252 Spe / 4 Spd
Timid Nature
- Growth
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power Fire
- Sludge Bomb

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Spa / 252 Spe / 4 Spd
Timid Nature
- Growth
- Weather Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain

Now, a lot of arguments against Venusaur say that it's a worse Victreebel. In the end, I can't help but wonder why a people didn't pair them together. Essentially, use Venusaur first to hammer away teams until it faints, then set up sun and do it all again with Victreebel to give Victreebel an easier time sweeping away everything. It's essentially like having 2 Victreebells, one for early game and one for late game.

 

[rau]

Sun seems super good right now. Even if it's not, I'm having a blast with it. Here's the sun sweeping duo I've been using.

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Spa / 252 Spe / 4 Spd
Timid Nature
- Sleep Powder / Giga Drain / Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power Fire
- Sludge Bomb

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Spa / 252 Spe / 4 Spd
Timid Nature
- Growth
- Weather Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain

Now, a lot of arguments against Venusaur say that it's a worse Victreebel. In the end, I can't help but wonder why a people didn't pair them together. Essentially, use Venusaur first to hammer away teams until it faints, then set up sun and do it all again with Victreebel to give Victreebel an easier time sweeping away everything. It's essentially like having 2 Victreebells, one for early game and one for late game.

In my fair opinion, switching the roles around would make it work much better. Thanks to Weather Ball, Victrebeel seems like a much superior option to an immediate attacker than Venusaur, as HP Fire misses out on too much to break through most Pokemon Pokemon, and, to be fair, Victreebel seems too frail to try to was a turn setting up. This would lead you to have to rely upon Sleep Powder or having you get rid of a specific attack. Venusaur seems to be most adept with Growth as its increased defenses makes it much more easy to set up, making it less reliant on something such as Sleep Powder. Yes, Sun isn't that great of a playstyle with stuff such as Mega Abomasnow and Fletchinder being already dominant forces, but it seems like it could pack quite the punch.

HP Fire v Weather Ball Calcs

252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss in Sun: 419-494 (96.9 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss in Sun: 252-299 (58.3 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 76+ SpD Mega Steelix in Sun: 343-406 (96.8 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 76+ SpD Mega Steelix in Sun: 205-244 (57.9 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong in Sun: 252-299 (74.5 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong in Sun: 153-182 (45.2 - 53.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Wow, talk about Venusaur, Charizard, and Blastoise being in RU all at the same time! I'm gonna imagine that the lower ladder will be seeing a lot of Gen 1 teams with all three of them on the same team, although honestly I don't know if there really are that many Gen 1 fans on the lower tier ladders.

Manectric is back, more old BW2 RU old timers coming home too I guess. Anyways, Manectric looks to be pretty solid in RU like it was last gen. It'll be one of the better offensive Electric-types in RU, especially when you consider it has Overheat to do tons of damage to Mega Steelix, which is great so that lix can't stop Manectric from typical offensive Electric-type Volt Switching shenanigans. It also roasts Mega Abomasnow and Virizion too, as well as other Grass-types, which makes it good for that too. It hits pretty hard with Thunderbolt, Overheat, and a Hidden Power of choice: Grass is cool to hit Seismitoad and Rhyperior, Ice is okay to hit Flygon, and I guess in rare cases you could use HP Water to hit Mega Camerupt too I guess. I'd imagine a Life Orb set would be a pain to deal with for slower teams as it pesters typical Ground-types, hits hard with T-bolt to do quite a bit of damage, and can snab momentum with Volt Switch in a pinch. Choice Scarf isn't bad too since it has Switcheroo to Trick it onto some other mons such as Alomomola making them much less effective, although Mane is kind of weak with it so eh lol. Lightningrod is also a funny ability that might be good to use too: switching in on opposing Volt Switches to gain more power is interesting and can also make Manectric more threatening to the opposing team. I don't know how good it will be but I'd imagine it'll at least be pretty solid for now, I personally think it might be better than Jolteon by a slight margin but we'll see how things roll.

Venusaur looks like it will be a pretty good Pokemon. The main thing that grabs my attention is its use on Sun teams, since it's a lethal Chlorophyll sweeper with Growth. It's bulky and has enough Speed to outpace a good deal of RU under sun, so it can take hits half decently, is real fast, and has enough bulk to set up with Growth, which makes it crazy powerful and fast under sun. +2 Giga Drains or Solar Beams will hurt like crazy, and it has Sludge Bomb and HP Fire to hit anything that resists that. It has the capability to set up on Aromatisse or something defensive and decimate teams under the sunlight. Just give it the right opportunities on a sun team and this thing will wreck shit. It also has Sleep Powder but...it doesn't really have room for that. Other than that though, Venusaur also looks like it could be a decent Pokemon on its own. Perhaps a bulky Life Orb set with Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, Sleep Powder, and Synthesis like the one it ran back in DPP UU (where it was king btw), being able to switch into a Pokemon, hit hard as fuck with Leaf Storm or Sludge Bomb, and also incapacitate threats with Sleep Powder, leaving one opponent crippled and forcing switches to allow Venusaur to fire a free attack. It also keeps longevity with Synthesis too which helps a lot (too bad Mega Abomasnow puts a damper on this). Maybe it could go defensive too but I'm not sure if that's justifiable over Amoonguss or something.

Charizard will probably be a niche Pokemon but at the same time I think it will be viable to a degree (and crazy fun too!). Solar Power sets will be crazy strong, but also very easy to wear down. A huge Rocks weakness and Solar Power damage will hurt it a lot, but once you get this thing in safely and have Sun up, this thing will burn holes in teams. It'll work on dedicated sun teams too thanks to its wallbreaking prowess, allowing Charizard to wallbreak when used in tandem with Venusaur or something as well as a dedicated sun setter or two. Physical sets with Swords Dance+AcroZard will be cool too. It will be like a Fletchinder that intends to break down walls better, with Flare Blitz and EQ to smash shit like Steelix and Rhyperior better. It also has a little more bulk if that's anything, since Fletchinder can't take hits worth a shit. I don't imagine it will be anything super amazing, and Houndoom and Delphox are better overall Fire-types, but it has some neat niches that might be occasionally worth using (and fun too).

Diancie will be pretty decent in RU too. It has such a tiny movepool but its stats and movepool alone ironically make it a very flexible Pokemon in how it can be played. It'll be a good Rocks setter with its bulk, and be able to hit decently hard with Diamond Storm, Moonblast, and Earth Power. It might be able to go defensive or even offensive with this, a lot of the sets slurmz above posted look to be really legit. Diancie can use Rock Polish to sweep teams which is good, but it also is incredible support for certain playstyles like Sun and TR. Sun appreciates it since it sets up Rocks and stuff while it provides a Fletch resist, sets up Sun itself, and also provides a Fire resist too for opposing Fires. TR loves it too because it's resistant to Knock Off, sets up Rocks, and also can explode to get to another TR sweeper. Oh and as shown above it can also sweep on its own too on TR. SubCM is something slurmz above showed too and it looks to be pretty good too. I don't have much to say about it other than that it's a pretty flexible Pokemon and all of those sets slurmz posted before look completely legit.

Just thoughts on some of the drops...late thoughts I guess.

 

[EonX]

Ok, so Punchshroom and I did some work tonight on Showdown with an EV spread on Defensive Diancie. Hint that I said Defensive instead of Specially Defensive. Diancie doesn't really need that much SpDef investment to do what it needs to on the special side of things, leaving a lot of room for physical bulk to be applied. Defensive Diancie should absolutely be one of your first options for a Stealth Rock setter on Balance or Stall teams. And the set should look a little bit like this:

Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Heal Bell

Diancie is an incredibly self-sufficient defensive Pokemon. Outside of Wish, it really has everything you want out of a bulky Rocks setter. It can set rocks, defend itself with solid STABs, and it isn't vulnerable to status due to Heal Bell. The given spread avoids the 3HKO from Choice Specs Exploud's Boomburst, dodge the 2HKO from +2 Life Orb Houndoom's Fire Blast after Leftovers, evade the 3HKO from +4 Fletchinder's Acrobatics (altho how it gets there would be beyond me. Hey, maybe you had a horrid mental block idk) keep Absol from OHKOing with +2 Life Orb Superpower, and avoid a 2HKO from Choice Band Emboar's Flare Blitz. Relaxed is used over Bold since Diancie doesn't really miss much in terms of Speed except for maybe defensive Druddigon, but it's not touching you anytime soon anyway. Diancie's only real needs in terms of support are Wish and a Mega Steelix switch-in. Thankfully, Alomomola covers both of these issues quite well. Add in a Grass-type check, such as Venusaur, Tangrowth, or Amoonguss, and you've got a damn good backbone to work with. Diancie might be a monster under Trick Room (trust me, it is) its defensive prowess should also be exploited really well. Here's some calcs to backup what I was talking about it defensively:

calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 92 SpD Diancie: 97-114 (31.9 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 92 SpD Diancie: 136-161 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Diancie: 105-125 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- 62.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Superpower vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Diancie: 213-251 (70 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Diancie: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Diancie: 125-148 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Note that you can shift the EV spread more to the physical or special side for extra security against a group of threats your team might have issues with. Diancie is really flexible defensively with its EV spread.

 

[Punchshroom]

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow / Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Knock Off

Knock Off is a perfectly fine alternative over Hidden Power Fire if Escavalier is not a problem to your team. You won't miss out on other Steel-types either; non-Eviolite Magneton takes like 70-82% from LO Modest Leaf Storm, plus Knock Off removes Eviolite anyway, and Venusaur has little trouble 1v1ing Bronzong thanks to Synthesis and more importantly its Toxic immunity. Registeel is comparatively irrelevant but it's not like HP Fire breaks through that anyway. Knock Off also offers some side benefits over HP Fire, such as not costing the Speed IV (can be important vs Medichams and opposing Venusaur) as well as making Venusaur trickier to switch into; Pokemon like Scarf Tyrantrum, Scarf Emboar, and Meloetta may try to come in on Venusaur's expected weakest attack in HP Fire (which can happen often since you'd Knock Off most HP Fire targets), but the Scarfers get a brutal surprise in suddenly losing their Speed advantage over Venusaur and risk being immediately KOed, while Meloetta eats a far nastier hit than intended.

I'm still not too certain where Manectric solidly stands in the meta. On one hand, it has the general offensive makeup of Jolteon while boasting similiar coverage to Eelektross, so it seems like a force to be reckoned with. On the other hand, Manectric misses out on some key offensive threats which Jolteon can prey on, such as Durant, Sneasel, Scarf Emboar, and most importantly Dugtrio; yes I know Jolteon doesn't 'prey' on Dugtrio but being able to escape via Baton Pass is better than being picked off like Manectric here. In fact the other two prominent Electric-types that'd compete with Manectric, namely Rotom-C and Eelektross, are also not susceptible to Dugtrio, so that hurts Manectric's position already. What's more, while Manectric's coverage is indisputably better than Jolteon's, it's still not exactly sufficient enough to circumvent all the Volt Switch blockers; it wants Hidden Power Ice to not get walled to hell and back by Flygon, but it also wants Hidden Power Grass to pressure Seismitoad and Rhyperior (or Hidden Power Water for Mega Camerupt and Rhyperior, though it becomes even more hardwalled by Flygon and Toad). I feel like Manectric would end up as 'just another option for an offensive Electric-type' instead of being a clear cut above the rest, though its good coverage and access to Switcheroo would place it pretty high up amongst its brethren.

 

[EonX]

Ok, so I think it's pretty safe to say that Diancie is the best of the new drops and everyone generally knows what it can run. Manectric is really solid, but generally one dimmensional. Venusaur, however, I feel has quite a bit of untapped potential. I was fooling around on Showdown last night with a couple of sets that I ended up liking a fair bit:

Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power Fire / Knock Off

So this is more of a tank version of the standard Life Orb Venusaur set that everyone knows about. What it lacks in power it makes up for in longevity with Black Sludge recovery and Giga Drain being used as the Grass-type STAB move. Hidden Power Fire is used on this set as Venusaur is more reliably able to handle Durant than the Life Orb set. Knock Off is still perfectly viable as this set has an even easier time dealing with Bronzong. The Speed EVs puts Venusaur ahead of Adamant Tyrantrum and everything slower, which includes Exploud, Scrafty, and Samurott. You can shift 4 EVs from Speed to HP if you're using Knock Off over HP Fire. While the standard LO set works very well on bulky offense, this set works a bit better on balance teams due to its better longevity and stronger ability to handle Water-, Electric-, and Ground-types. Also note that it is able to absorb Toxic Spikes, which is a boon for balance teams that typically don't want to expose their spinner (Blastoise or Hitmontop) to Toxic Spikes for very obvious reasons. You'll generally want to use this Venusaur on teams that still need some power out of their Grass-type, but also need a sturdy answer to Water-, Grass-, and Ground-type Pokemon with the ability to outspeed Exploud, Emboar, and Scrafty in tight spots. In fact, this set can be a lot of fun with that Diancie + Alomomola core I talked about in the Cores thread.

Venusaur @ Lum Berry
Ability: Overgrow / Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- Synthesis / Earthquake

Now this set is something I'm sure a lot of you are giving me weird looks over, but hear me out for a bit. Venusaur only has base 82 Attack and base 80 Speed. There's no possible way it can pull off a sweep. Well, give a little bit of paralysis support and it's not as hard as it may seem. Venusaur has a perfect typing to set up on many defensive Pokemon in the tier. A secondary Poison-typing makes it outright immune to Toxic (Spikes) which means most defensive teams have an incredibly hard time dealing with it. Venusaur can come in on stuff such as Alomomola, defensive Diancie, non-HP Fire Tangrowth, and Aromatisse to set up Swords Dance as they'll likely switch out fearing the special sets. At +2, Venusaur can be quite the handful. Power Whip is a very strong STAB move that can easily make up for Venusaur's somewhat average Attack stat. Knock Off is pivotal for Venusaur. As bulky Poisons are typically checks to physical Grass-types (AKA Virizion) Venusaur benefits from this immensely as Knock Off hits all of them neutrally. The last slot gives Venusaur more longevity or extra coverage based on what you need. Synthesis allows Venusaur to not be worn down as easily by priority and faster mons in general. However, Earthquake is a fine alternative to allow Venusaur to get past Emboar, Mega Camerupt, and get a more reliable hit on Mega Steelix. EVs are obvious and Adamant is used for the power boost as Venusaur not only gains very little from using Jolly, but it should also ideally have paralysis support. Even with the Poison typing, Lum Berry is easily the preferred hold item so Venusaur can setup against Scald users like Alomomola, Jellicent, and Seismitoad without fear of a burn ruining it. Ability choice depends on if you want stronger Power Whips late or the ability to mow down Sun teams. Overgrow is generally better since just about every Sun team runs Timid Victreebel or Timid Venusaur and SD Venusaur uses Adamant, meaning it will be outsped and OHKOed by both with Weather Ball and HP Fire respectively.

Gotta credit Spirit for giving me the idea to even give these a shot.

 

[tehy]

Just making a quick post to ask, any chance to ban mega abomasnow?

it's got a ridiculously short counters list and can get past almost any of them, it's just insanely powerful and difficult to stop and this is just the special set not even counting that it could be surprise SD...

 

[pokemonisfun]

As a fellow stall players I share your struggles tehy. I'm curious as to what you are using to respond to Mega Snow. My stall teams just generally give it few openings while I also have a Hitmontop, Mega Lix and Special Defense Audino. I'm considering adding a fire move to Audino or Slowking (Slowking can even run Rindo).

Also I'm fond of AV amoonguss with 252 hp 252 def bold because it's a good mixed tank being a response to everything from Hitmonlee to a +2 Omastar. You still have lots of utility because you can easily scout things like flygon from your mixed bulk and you have clear smog and sludge bombs poison chance and even foul play if you want. Spore is overrated for stall since you can't do anything big with the free turns and its not like it helps vs threats like CM Sigilyph. It can also take any single move from Abomsnow and do heavy damage back with Sludge Bomb but you risk dying after hail and SR. You beat SD one in one though.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

Playing in the current Meta, I can confidentially say that sun teams are everywhere. My offense can barely handle them. Zard really hasn't been a problem, but it's more for taking down bulkier builds anyway. I've been using a core to climb the ladder extremely quickly, as it's pretty solid against the new drops and just general current metagame trends.

Team Aqua and Team Magma

Maxie (Camerupt) @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stealth Rock

Archie (Sharpedo) @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Protect
- Zen Headbutt

So, a pretty obvious breaker+cleaner core. Mega Camerupt screws over things like tangrowth that love to sponge hits from Sharpedo, as well as sets up rocks to make sweeping easier. A lot of the things that mega camerupt can't destroy are wasted by sharpedo, like jellicent and AV slowking. This core definitely has its weaknesses, like HJK+Mach Punch hitmonlee and Specailly defensive mega audino. However, these Pokemon can be covered by the other four members of the team. Good partners include Virizion to threaten stuff that neither of them can beat 1 on 1, mostly bulky waters like Alomamola and Gastrodon. Healing wish support from the likes of mespirit is a great asset to Mega Camerupt. Finally, accelgor can set up spikes to put even more pressure on opposing teams.

 

[Hot N Cold]

All my dreams mons when I'm gone.. Sigh,

Florizarre