Monotype Viability Rankings V2

[Zmeeed]

So... here are my thoughts about Goodra in form of the long-awaited Goodra vs. Dragalge analysis.

Let's begin from their advantages over each other:

Goodra's advantages over Dragalge:
- Every stat is higher except Defense (Goodra's overall physical bulk falls short of Dragalge's), being one of the most bulkiest special tanks in the entire metagame.
- While it has no Fairy neutrality, the lack of part-Poison typing only helps Goodra in most non-Fairy matches, as the weaknesses to Earthquake and Psyshock are too exploitable.
- Much better and stronger offensive coverage and ability to surprise its checks with it.
- Decent disruptive utility abilites. With Sap Sipper, Goodra almost counters the notorius SubSeed Whimsicott and acts as a great answer to nearly every Spore/Sleep Powder/Leech Seed abuser. With Gooey, it can help a lot in Dragon matches by slowing down speedy Outrage users, as well as also halting opposing speedy sweeps if played right. (In expense of itself, sadly)

Dragalge's advantages over Goodra:
- Raw power. Adaptability provides Dragalge a very strong Sludge Bomb/Wave and Draco Meteor even with no damage-boosting items, being better at offense.
- Being able to run more sets, although effectiveness of some is questionable.
- The only allowed Dragon-type with Fairy neutrality, which gives it edge in Fairy matches.

This is the Goodra set I use most of the time:

Assault Vest:
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpA / 52 SpD / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt

SpD investment is meant to hit 349 SpD stat, which is one of Goodra's jump points. Feel free to move SpD or Spe EVs into Special Attack. Dragon Pulse can be replaced with Draco Meteor, and a lot of different options can be run in the 4th slot.

This set is a great special backbone and works impressive alongside Defensive Garchomp and Defog + Healing Wish Latias. The only instances where this set is underwhelming are matches against Ground and Normal, due to huge amount of physical attackers in former and large amount specially bulky Pokemon in latter. If you wonder, Dragalge struggles even more in Ground matches, though in Normal it can be sometimes a thorn on opponent's side if it is Choice Specs or SpD Toxic Spikes setter.

Some important calcs

+2 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 126-148 (32.8 - 38.5%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 166-198 (43.2 - 51.5%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 221-265 (57.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Latias needs to be lucky to take Goodra down with two consecutive Draco Meteors)

252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 192-228 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Omastar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 164-194 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 75-91 (19.5 - 23.6%) -- possible 5HKO

252 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 114-134 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- 11% chance to 3HKO

While Dragalge has at least three sets, I will show that these do not make Dragalge just better than Goodra. For any set-specific details look in older "Monotype EV and Sets Compendium". Note: in some battles with these Dragalge sets I really wished I had Goodra instead.

Assault Vest:
Dragalge @ Assault Vest
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Tail

It exerts more offensive pressure, but it's usually inferior as a tank to Goodra due to lower Special Defense and Speed. It takes 20% more special damage in average, and some hits that 2HKO Dragalge only 3HKO Goodra, meaning the latter one can relatilate once at worst. In addition, it proved to be better than Goodra only in Fairy matches and against some specially bulky Pokemon, while in most of others it either becomes a victim of its own part-Poison typing or just gets straight off walled by Steel-types.

Choice Specs:
Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Sludge Bomb
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Pulse

This set strikes terror into bulky (non-Steel, of course) teams... but against offensive ones, it will do something only if you give it a free switch-in against something non-physically offensive.

SpD Toxic Spikes setter:
Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic Spikes
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Good on paper - unconvenient in practice. It's still not as specially bulky as Goodra. While it can set Toxic Spikes to wear down opposing walls, you have to eliminate opponent's Stealth Rock setter first because Dragon's only way to clear hazards is Defog, which also wipes off ones that YOU set. Or you can just accept Dragonite, Black Kyurem and others losing Multiscale and/or considerable amount of health upon entry.

I could note an offensive set with Toxic Spikes, but it's not as bulky as AV or SpD set and not as powerful as Choice Specs set. It also suffers from inconvenience of Toxic Spikes use on Dragon.

Tl;dr Dragalge might be more diverse, but that doesn't make it overall more effective.

In conclusion, I will just sum up what both of these Pokemon are actually are. This is also a short guide for these who are in doubt which one to pick for their teams.

Goodra is a special tank, who functions well enough in the most of matches. It is best against offense.
Dragalge is a Fairy slaying wallbreaker, whose effectiveness largely depends on the matchup. It is best against bulkier teams.
They can do their counterpart's jobs as well, but do not expect Dragalge eating Ice Beams all day and Goodra bringing down any Fairy-type.

These are the reasons why do I see Dragalge and Goodra equal to each other and feel like they both deserve to be in the same rank - B.

scp edit: removed the post script portion.

 

[Wanka]

So... here are my thoughts about Goodra in form of the long-awaited Goodra vs. Dragalge analysis.

Let's begin from their advantages over each other:

Goodra's advantages over Dragalge:
- Every stat is higher except Defense (Goodra's overall physical bulk falls short of Dragalge's), being one of the most bulkiest special tanks in the entire metagame.
- While it has no Fairy neutrality, the lack of part-Poison typing only helps Goodra in most non-Fairy matches, as the weaknesses to Earthquake and Psyshock are too exploitable.
- Much better and stronger offensive coverage and ability to surprise its checks with it.
- Decent disruptive utility abilites. With Sap Sipper, Goodra almost counters the notorius SubSeed Whimsicott and acts as a great answer to nearly every Spore/Sleep Powder/Leech Seed abuser. With Gooey, it can help a lot in Dragon matches by slowing down speedy Outrage users, as well as also halting opposing speedy sweeps if played right. (In expense of itself, sadly)

Dragalge's advantages over Goodra:
- Raw power. Adaptability provides Dragalge a very strong Sludge Bomb/Wave and Draco Meteor even with no damage-boosting items, being better at offense.
- Being able to run more sets, although effectiveness of some is questionable.
- The only allowed Dragon-type with Fairy neutrality, which gives it edge in Fairy matches.

This is the Goodra set I use most of the time:

Assault Vest:
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpA / 52 SpD / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt

SpD investment is meant to hit 349 SpD stat, which is one of Goodra's jump points. Feel free to move SpD or Spe EVs into Special Attack. Dragon Pulse can be replaced with Draco Meteor, and a lot of different options can be run in the 4th slot.

This set is a great special backbone and works impressive alongside Defensive Garchomp and Defog + Healing Wish Latias. The only instances where this set is underwhelming are matches against Ground and Normal, due to huge amount of physical attackers in former and large amount specially bulky Pokemon in latter. If you wonder, Dragalge struggles even more in Ground matches, though in Normal it can be sometimes a thorn on opponent's side if it is Choice Specs or SpD Toxic Spikes setter.

Some important calcs

+2 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 126-148 (32.8 - 38.5%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 166-198 (43.2 - 51.5%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 221-265 (57.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Latias needs to be lucky to take Goodra down with two consecutive Draco Meteors)

252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 192-228 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Omastar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 164-194 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 75-91 (19.5 - 23.6%) -- possible 5HKO

252 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 114-134 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- 11% chance to 3HKO

While Dragalge has at least three sets, I will show that these do not make Dragalge just better than Goodra. For any set-specific details look in older "Monotype EV and Sets Compendium". Note: in some battles with these Dragalge sets I really wished I had Goodra instead.

Assault Vest:
Dragalge @ Assault Vest
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Tail

It exerts more offensive pressure, but it's usually inferior as a tank to Goodra due to lower Special Defense and Speed. It takes 20% more special damage in average, and some hits that 2HKO Dragalge only 3HKO Goodra, meaning the latter one can relatilate once at worst. In addition, it proved to be better than Goodra only in Fairy matches and against some specially bulky Pokemon, while in most of others it either becomes a victim of its own part-Poison typing or just gets straight off walled by Steel-types.

Choice Specs:
Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Sludge Bomb
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Pulse

This set strikes terror into bulky (non-Steel, of course) teams... but against offensive ones, it will do something only if you give it a free switch-in against something non-physically offensive.

SpD Toxic Spikes setter:
Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic Spikes
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Good on paper - unconvenient in practice. It's still not as specially bulky as Goodra. While it can set Toxic Spikes to wear down opposing walls, you have to eliminate opponent's Stealth Rock setter first because Dragon's only way to clear hazards is Defog, which also wipes off ones that YOU set. Or you can just accept Dragonite, Black Kyurem and others losing Multiscale and/or considerable amount of health upon entry.

I could note an offensive set with Toxic Spikes, but it's not as bulky as AV or SpD set and not as powerful as Choice Specs set. It also suffers from inconvenience of Toxic Spikes use on Dragon.

Tl;dr Dragalge might be more diverse, but that doesn't make it overall more effective.

In conclusion, I will just sum up what both of these Pokemon are actually are. This is also a short guide for these who are in doubt which one to pick for their teams.

Goodra is a special tank, who functions well enough in the most of matches. It is best against offense.
Dragalge is a Fairy slaying wallbreaker, whose effectiveness largely depends on the matchup. It is best against bulkier teams.
They can do their counterpart's jobs as well, but do not expect Dragalge eating Ice Beams all day and Goodra bringing down any Fairy-type.

These are the reasons why do I see Dragalge and Goodra equal to each other and feel like they both deserve to be in the same rank - B.

scp edit: removed the post script portion.

"Goodra has higher stats than dragalge" - This means nothing. Draglage's marginably better ability and typing outweigh goodra being a pseudo legendary.

"as the weaknesses to Earthquake and Psyshock are too exploitable." - You have not one, not two, but three mons at your disposal you can use to be immune to ground while resisting / being immunine to psychic type attacks. Yea it's annoying for 1v1 purposes but, you have multiple mons to support dragalge in that sense. That does not give goodra an advantage over it.

"Much better and stronger offensive coverage" - Again, you have no way of boosting goodra's offensive prowess as your item slot is already taken and its abilities to nothing for it on the offensive. You are literally just going to be sitting there trying to break through things with weak coverage moves that actually don't break through anything you are trying to lure except again, if someone thinks their skarmory or ferrothorn can wall you. It's not like you are beating a +2 scizor or a +2 bisharp solely because you have fire blast, you are just going to get ohkod. And if you think about it, in the set you mentioned, the only move that is stronger than dragalge's is fire blast. Dragalge actually has a stronger thunderbolt than goodra does with your evs and it ofc has stronger dragon STAB and poison STAB. And I guess i'll just say, there really isn't a point in trying to compare their coverage, its a pretty petty argument in this case because that's not what dragalge prides itself on and it doesn't need to because the other thing's it does for dragon teams outweigh "not having enough coverage moves."

"Decent disruptive utility abilites." - sap sipper is usless. You're mono dragon, you don't care about grass type attacks or breloom. All I got from your argument was that you can counter a single mon with its ability. Countering a single mon with an entire ability slot is not something you should be considering as an advantage. Gooey is at least somewhat decent because you can slow things down for dragon's wall breakers. The only issue with gooey is that, In the event it becomes useful, goodra is most likely dying while trying to slow something down. Its physical bulk is terrible and the only way its ability works is if its taking physical hits. "What does that mean?" All it means is you are using goodra as a sack against physical mons because it does nothing else. Again, not something you should be considering as an advantage.

As far as the sets you named for dragalge. I wouldn't bring up the AV set. I've used it, its really not that good. It's best to talk about T spikes setting sets and a specs set. Here's my favorite set

Dragalge @ Dragon Fang / Black Sludge
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 188 HP / 252 SpA / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Toxic Spikes
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast / Thunderbolt / Scald

This set does everything I talked about. It sets T spikes to help support your teammates, has nuking capabilities with Dragon Fang, and Adaptability, and has a filler in its last slot to hit things you want to hit. Dragon Tail and fire coverage isn't necessary as bulk chomp has and uses those things anyways. Focus blast is nice to hit heatran and other steels (magnezone and bisharp) while thunderbolt can be used to hit empoleon. Water teams are generally weak to drag's STAB's though. I probably wouldn't use scald as it's redundant with t spikes but go for it if you love rng. You can run sludge on that set for passive recovery and / or 132 speed evs to outspeed base 60s. Right now the speed lets you outspeed negative speed natured regular swamperts. Lets you come in on them and drop a fat draco on water teams.

The specs set you have seems fine except again, fire coverage is redundant and I would probably speed creep base 60s with a specs set. I just wanted to clear up those sets because I didn't think you had dragalge used to its best ability in them.

Another big thing that you have to take into consideration is risk factor. This goes for anyone who posts in the future as well because I've noticed that a lot of people don't recognize and or understand this aspect of ranking pokemon. Think to yourself before you try to bump a mon into the B, A, or S ranks, "When I use this mon, do I lose out on other high ranked mons that cover more types JUST so I can use a mon with a cool niche that covers less types?" This is quite prevalent in goodra. If you want to use goodra, you are missing out on things like hydreigon or a lati twin. Both of which are fantastic mons for dragon teams and do TONS more for dragon teams then goodra does. Now, you can say the same for dragalge. However, dragalge is only B rank and even so, you'd probably be losing out on hydreigon but you don't lose nearly as much effectiveness as you would if you were to use goodra. Even so, dragalge brings small things to dragon that hydre might now even though hydrei is obv a better mon. This makes dragalge a lot less risky to use as opposed to goodra and everything goodra brings to a dragon team is already redundant within the dragon team. The only somewhat relevant matchup goodra is good in is dragon vs dragon zzz. It stays at C.

 

[Kilgrave]

In regards to Goodra vs Dragalge, I don't need to write a ton of stuff to prove that Dragalge is better. It is very important for a dragon team to have something to deal with fairy types, and Dragalge is pretty much the only dragon that can deal with them reliably. Because of this, Dragalge is valuable on any dragon team to make sure it doesn't get destroyed by fairy types and because as Zmeeed highlighted, it is the only allowed dragon type that resists fairy, although its speed holds it back a bit. So in my opinion, Goodra stays at C, and Dragalge stays at B.

 

[Tyke]

The only benefits I see goodra having are superior special bulk, letting it take ice beams and other hard hits more easily, and fire blast.

That's not very much compared to what Dragalge brings to the table (which others have already spoken to).

 

[Confluxx [Old]]

Goodra has a lot of Special Defense and it's true that it can eat up hits like Ice Beam and not even get 2HKOed. However that loses the momentum and offensive pressure that all other Dragon-types apply. Its coverage is solid but it can't deal high amounts of damage and it's easy to check. It doesn't get any recovery so it can only switch in on super effective special attacks twice and then it's gone. You can't add Leftovers on it for passive recovery since you're bound to Assault Vest or Choice Specs. Like Wanka mentioned it being able to counter/check Grass-type Pokemon is not that valuable considering Dragon resists Grass anyway, and its Gooey ability can sometimes come in handy but it's going to come at the cost of Goodra and the Speed drop is something your opponent can get rid of by just switching out.

Dragalge on the other hand, has the room for passive recovery in Black Sludge, it has a neutrality to Fairy and is able to nuke most Fairy-types, has much better wallbreaking capabilities than Goodra thanks to Adaptability and can support the team with Toxic Spikes. Again, repeating something that was already said by Wanka, Dragalge's weaknesses can be covered by more than one Pokemon on the team so it doesn't have that much to worry about.

Goodra definitely can't be compared to Dragalge and shouldn't be put on the same level as it. C Rank.

 

[Tyke]

This isn't so much a contestation as an inquiry, but how is Armaldo S-rank on bug?

It's a rapid spinner with STAB rock attacks, sure, but I don't think it qualifies as "must Have" on every bug team the way Volcarona is, nor is it as valuable as Mega-Pinsir or Scizor IMO.

 

[Arash]

^hilariously, the Armaldo link goes to a write up for it to be B rank, which imo is more suitable for Armaldo anyways

 

[scpinion]

There was actually an entire section of a Monotype article in Smogon's Flying Press dedicated to this topic.

Check it out: http://www.smogon.com/articles/monotype-vr-revamp

 

[Tyke]

There was actually an entire section of a Monotype article in Smogon's Flying Press dedicated to this topic.

Check it out: http://www.smogon.com/articles/monotype-vr-revamp

tbh I'm still not convinced though.

It's not as vital as Volcarona or Scizor or as valuable as mega-Pinsir. Seems like it's greatest value is the role-compression of hazard setter, fire check, and spinner. That makes it A-rank easily, but S? Seems too high.

Idk, I'll do a more thorough write-up when I get home from work.

 

[Wanka]

This isn't so much a contestation as an inquiry, but how is Armaldo S-rank on bug?

It's a rapid spinner with STAB rock attacks, sure, but I don't think it qualifies as "must Have" on every bug team the way Volcarona is, nor is it as valuable as Mega-Pinsir or Scizor IMO.

An explanation on armaldo because I did a lot if work in getting it S rank in the first place.

Using some of the mons that you stated against you,(volc, pinsir etc.) I propose a question. What aspect on bug teams makes those mons so effective in the current meta? Its hazard control. Without it, every bug team would fall apart and mons like pinsir and volc would be less threatening and harder to use. I'll deal with defog scizor before it gets brought up. Its terrible. Scizor is fantastic on bug teams as a backup wincon / wall breaker. You take so much away from its main role on bug teams when you use defog on it and it will end up hurting your team in the long run.

Now with the idea that hazard control holds everything on bug together and is what makes it viable in the first place. I propose another question. What mon fufills this idea / role on bug teams the best? The answer is Armaldo. It's a somewhat close race between forry and armaldo but armaldo does edge it for a few reasons.

It has a neutrality to fire type attacks which allows it to be able to take random fire coverage (which is very common in mono) and it helps bug teams not lose to scarf tini. Another big thing between it and forry is that forry is far more passive than armaldo. Since its attack is pretty high, armaldo can double as a bulky AV hitter that also controls hazards and in general it just gets better attacking options (Edge, knock, EQ). Better typing, no passiveness, and versatility as a spinner is what sets armaldo apart from forretress.

To kind if tie the main points together...Bug teams need hazard control to be able to function and Armaldo is the best mon you can use to control hazards, thus propelling it into S rank.

Another big thing I should explain with arma's rank is that, we all understand that it doesn't necessarily "fit" the definition on your stereotypical S rank mon. It doesn't signifigantly threaten nor wall portions of the meta or any of that stuff. What it does do, which outweighs any definition set for an S rank mon, is make an entire type viable on its own because it is the best at a simple task. Controlling hazards.

Completely unrelated to this topic but can I please ask you guys to refrain from uninformative short posts that solely consist of things like "this mon should be this rank imo." It just clutters up the thread and we can't take those comments seriously as they have no reasoning nor explanations to them. I know not everyone does this but I though it just nip the issue in the bud so it doesn't pop up down the road.

Back to maldo. I'll be open to looking at your write for why you think it is A but it was a mon that was very controversial in the first place so it's going to take a lot to drop it down.

Edit: rip didn't see scp's link in time. Oh well I think I added a little more to it anyways.

 

[juleocesar]

I would like to bring back a disussion about a pokemon I think that deserves change. Not sure if this post will be really approved or convincing, but at least I will have a chance to throw up my insights and make an in-depth explanation about it in this thread (the other one looked really simple). I had a similiar discussion in PS (I think Wanka was there) but I feel like I'll have more space to make a detailed description and review about it in this thread. (I'm sorry if it looks big). Also hoping this post helps promoting discussion towards the Pokemon.

You should read the entire post, but there's a tl;dr in the end of it.

This pokemon is Serperior. I really feel like it is a very overrated Pokemon in the Monotype Metagame, for a wide variety of reasons. Honestly all I see is ''Serperior is great and it should be A'', with poor explanation/reasoning behind this sentence. I will try to explain as much as I can about why I believe it deserves change, or at least a general discussion about it.

Comparison A // B rank mons: First of all, Serperior doesn't offer quite as much as many A-ranked Pokemons can. Whimsicott, Cradily and Breloom all bring way lot more utility than Serperior: Whimsi acts as an amazing check for Fighting, Dragon and Dark teams, and can stop nearly all setup sweepers in their tracks with Encore and/or Stun Spore; Cradily works as an amazing special wall with neutralities to Poison, Flying and Fire moves, as well as having access to very useful moves on Stealth Rock and Recover to compliment its work, helping Grass teams on lots of matchups; and lastly, Breloom has a great priority tool in form of Mach Punch + Technician, a perfect accurate sleeping inducing move in form of Spore, and a great attack stat which enables it to break through most walls not resistant to Bullet Seed. Sure, Serperior does have a good speed tier and access to Glare, but these are often flawed by its subpar special attack and poor coverage, which will be explained more in-depth below (Whimsicott still offers more support and utility at this role). When compared to B rank mons, however, Serperior clearly stands nearly as useful as Rotom-Mow and Celebi, in terms of utility, since both of them are a bit more dependant of support, just as I think as Serperior is to take down its checks and counters.

Type/Matchup Coverage: A factor I believe that is extremely important to be considered (and it also can be compared to the comparison argument) when ranking a Pokemon is this one. In Grass teams, Serperior doesn't add much against the great majority of types, despite being a solid late game cleaner (that alone wouldn't make it deserve the rank it has), whereas all pokemons ranked A can handle reasonable amount of types BESIDES the utility they naturally offer. Most of the types have lots of checks/counters for it, which are either capable of switching into and striking back or outspeeding it right way as a revenge killer. To clear that out, I will copypaste the list I have made in my previous post about the amount of checks/counters/answers avalible on every team.

List

Electric - Zapdos, Magnezone (HP Fire doesn't OHKO if it is at full health, even +2), Manectric
Water - Azumarill (Sap Sipper), Tentacruel, Volcanion
Fire - Heatran (if Hidden Power Fire), Charizard Y (this thing takes only 50% from dragon pulse at +2), Victini, Arcanine, etc.
Fairy - Togekiss, Klefki (twave + screens says hi)
Ice - Weavile, Mamoswine (ice shard), Kyurem-Black (scarf), Cloyster (sash, Ice shard)
Rock - Mega Aggron
Steel - Heatran (if hidden power fire); Skarmory (if hidden power ground)
Poison - Mega-Venusaur, Crobat, Scolipede, Drapion and lot others.
Flying - Togekiss, Zapdos, Char-Y, Tornadus, Thundurus-I
Ground - Mamoswine, Excadrill, Landorus (sand rush)
Dark - Mandibuzz, Weavile, Hoopa-Unbound (scarf)
Bug - Volcarona, Heracross, Scizor (if HP Ground)
Normal - Chansey, Blissey, Pidgeot, Ditto
Fighting - Hawlucha (can switch in Leaf Storm as long as it is still +0), Medicham-Mega (fake out + bullet punch deals solid damage and kills if weakened), Heracross (scarf), Keldeo (scarf), Terrakion (scarf)
Ghost - Chandelure, Hoopa-C (Assault Vest/Choice Scarf)
Psychic - Victini, Jirachi (doesn't get hit hard by any of the hidden powers, scarf flinches it to death), Meloetta (Assault Vest), Hoopa-Unbound
Dragon - Dragalge (Dragon Pulse has a small chance to OHKO assuming it switches in Leaf Storm), Latios (scarf), Dragonite (extremespeed, multiscale, etc), Latias, Hydreigon (if scarf), Goodra
Grass - Mega Venusaur, Breloom (mach punch), Whimsicott (Encore on Dragon Pulse, can revenge kill when weakened w/ Moonblast), Ferrothorn (if Hidden Power Ground)

Do note that some pokemons of this list aren't really reliable answers (especially Ground, Water and Rock), due to their weakness to Serperior's main STAB move.

Amazing Late Game Cleaner, but..: ''Serperior can sweep quite easily'' and ''Serperior requires little/near to no support to work effectively'' are two sentences I see a lot and that are indeed very easy to believe in theory, but the reality is very different from that. Here I will be focusing a bit more on its flaws and to show that these are very important to be mentioned when it comes to the Viability Rankings.

• The first flaw the snake (or whatever you would call that) has is its subpar special attack. Sure, you shouldn't be picking up your pokemons based on their stats/BST to make the team, but in Serperior's case, this can make a lot of difference, especially because it is the stat that's going to get multiplied after consecutive Leaf Storm uses. That being said, it fails to break through most bulky pokemons (see the list for more info), especially against those who resist its Grass STAB, even at +2 (Hidden Power and Dragon Pulse often lacks the required damage to take down these threats straightfoward and sweep);
• The second flaw is that it has a lackluster coverage avaliable to its disposal. It LITERALLY has to rely on Dragon Pulse and Hidden Power to deal decent damage to Pokemons resistant to its STAB. (Dragon Pulse will ONLY be useful against Dragon, since even resisted Leaf Storms do more, unless they are 4x resisted). Fire and Poison type pokemon can absorb these moves quite easily due to their resistances to these coverages. On the top of that, Serperior has a GRASS-ONLY TYPING, which adds zero damage to moves aside Leaf Storm.
• Serperior cannot set up boosts as easy as you think. That's courtesy of Leaf Storm's Grass type, which hits only 3 types effectively and is resisted by a lot of Pokemon. It is dangerous to use Leaf Storm against several matchups because then you would be dealing near-useless damage just to set up.
• Serperior has GRASS-TYPED teammates. Remember, you are using it on A GRASS team, so its clearly different than using it in an OU team: Most of its checks and counters are already hard enough for most Grass teams to handle.
• Competition: This isn't really a flaw, but Serperior is by no means a must to Grass teams. That means you will prioritize more important pokemons first (mostly the ones in S and A rank, thanks to their amazing utility and type coverage). And most importantly, you would like to have Grass team capable of covering as much types as possible, which Serperior simply doesn't very well (see Type/Matchup coverage section above). Furthermore, pokemons like Breloom and Whimsicott can do a similiar job when it comes to late game cleaning and revenge killing, thanks to their high speed and Mach Punch priority, respectively.

Don't get me wrong in this post, I am not saying Serperior is bad or useless. Serperior can still do a very nice job as a late game cleaner, and make use of support-ish moves like Glare, as well as having an amazing speed tier. I just don't think that Serperior deserves such high rank, made for pokemon requiring little support or offering lots of utilities to Grass teams, just by having these traits. B rank isn't by any means a bad rank, it is actually very decent, and this is the rank that suits Serperior perfectly in my opinion.

By the way, I also recommend reading Eien's Hawlucha post, since it states lots of points that I just brought up here, and it was really well written for a B rank mon, even with Grass and Fighting being very different types on their own.

tl;dr
-Doesn't cover as much types effectively as most A rank pokemons do (only true adds on Ground matchups, it helps vs some others but there are other options that cover them better)
-Poor coverage and subpar special attack
-Can't set Leaf Storm really easily since there are lots of pokemons resisting the move.
-A rank mons offer more utility thank Serperior, while B rank mons are way easier to compare.
-Struggles against threats on which its teammates already have trouble handling.
-Faces competition, especially with Whimsicott offensive variants
-Still very good as an unparalled late game cleaner and has access to useful moves like Glare, which makes it decent despite having the flaws mentioned above, therefore making B rank suitable for it.

Again, not sure what will happen but I am at least hoping for a healthy discussion towards Serperior. If you agree/disagree feel free to make a post with solid arguments about it.​

 

[Kilgrave]

I'm not gonna quote it because it's too long and I'm on mobile.

I understand everything you say about Serperior. However, there are reasons why I have never, ever, considered using Serperior in monotype.

Serperior's main role in pretty much any Metagames is to spam Leaf Storm and get the Contary boosts. In monotype, Serperior's pure grass typing doesn't do it any favours, and it is important to point out that a whopping 7 types resist Leaf Storm, including the ever popular Flying. In my opinion, there are better Pokemon you can put on a Grass monotype, which is pretty much every Grass Pokemon that is ranked above it. And, as you pointed out, it's coverage is crap.

In my opinion, Serperior is good (sort of). However, it doesn't really shine in monotype, and it is alright where it is in B rank. I would write more but I'm tired af and I need to sleep. Just thought I'd share my opinion.

 

[juleocesar]

I'm not gonna quote it because it's too long and I'm on mobile.

I understand everything you say about Serperior. However, there are reasons why I have never, ever, considered using Serperior in monotype.

Serperior's main role in pretty much any Metagames is to spam Leaf Storm and get the Contary boosts. In monotype, Serperior's pure grass typing doesn't do it any favours, and it is important to point out that a whopping 7 types resist Leaf Storm, including the ever popular Flying. In my opinion, there are better Pokemon you can put on a Grass monotype, which is pretty much every Grass Pokemon that is ranked above it. And, as you pointed out, it's coverage is crap.

In my opinion, Serperior is good (sort of). However, it doesn't really shine in monotype, and it is alright where it is in B rank. I would write more but I'm tired af and I need to sleep. Just thought I'd share my opinion.

That is exactly my post is about, just more in-depth/detailed. Your points are fairly reasonable.
Serperior is alright in B rank, but that isn't the rank it currently is as you have mentioned. (Serp is current A in VRs). The post's intention is to promote discussion towards it and a possible change.

 

[Kilgrave]

That is exactly my post is about, just more in-depth/detailed. Your points are fairly reasonable.
Serperior is alright in B rank, but that isn't the rank it currently is as you have mentioned. (Serp is current A in VRs). The post's intention is to promote discussion towards it and a possible change.

I forgot to check the rankings to see exactly where Serperior was and assumed it was in B. I personally don't think it deserves A rank and I'd like to see a change. Just saying.

 

[Vid]

Discussion #3

• 
  (Water) A--->B
• 
  (Ice) A--->B
• 
  (Psyshic) D--->C
• 
  (Water) B--->C
• 
  (Ground) C--->B

Discussion #2 Change(s)

• 
  (Dark) B--->A- Most people agreed if Mega Sableye was ban it should be moved up
• 
  (Steel) On Hold it's kind of controversial it will be discussed sometime in future
• 
  (Dragon) Stays B Mega Latias is just a better Mega to use on Dragon
• 
  (Fighting) S--->A- It's not used often on Fighting teams anymore and it needs Set up to be threatening the VR council discussed this heavily and came to that conclusion

Other Changes

Other Changes mostly regarding Banning of Mega Sableye

• 
  (Dark) B--->A
• 
  (Ghost) Unranked--->A
• 
  (Grass) D--->C
• 
  (Electric) A--->B
• 
  (Normal) B--->C
• 
  (Ice) B--->A
• 
  (Ice) B--->A
• 
  (Water) D--->C
• 
  (Flying) B--->C
• 
  (Ghost) C--->Unranked
• 
  (Water) B--->C
• 
  (Electric) B--->C
• 
  (Steel) B--->C

If you have any questions regarding the Other Changes Please Pm any of Council Wanka, Confluxx, or Myself

 

[6ti]

Starmie: Disagree, it has a great speed tier and great coverage as well as rapid spin and fits on a lot of teams imo. A
Cloyster: Not sure
Bronzong: Not sure why this is being brought up unless TR psychic is making a resurgence for whatever reason. D
Quagsire: Agree, it's basically the same situation as Alomomola except swampert is better in every way except for unaware. C
Diggersby: Not sure

 

[Eien]

I don't really have strong opinions on any of them except for Starmie, which I believe should definitely stay A.

Starmie is the best offensive entry hazard removal available for Water. This means if you have a HO team, Starmie is pretty much your only good option because everything else throws away all the momentum you used to have. Notably, it uses Rapid Spin, making sure any entry hazards you had previously set will stay up. Further, it has an amazing Speed tier, outspeeding Latios, Keldeo, Mega Charizard Y, and Choice Scarf Magnezone. It might not have particularly fantastic damage, even with Life Orb, but Analytic makes switch-ins take a ton of damage. For example, Zapdos can't switch in, thanks to Analytic, making Starmie a potent threat against Flying teams in general. And while Volcanion's release has made it less important, Starmie's ability to use Psychic to help potentially beat Mega Venusaur is still great for teams that can't fit Volcanion, such as rain teams.

It compresses so many different roles into one teamslot and fits on both balance and HO, so I think it deserves to stay A rank.

 

[Seo.]

Just some quick thoughts:

Starmie(Water): I feel like Starmie deserves to stay as A rank because it provides reliable hazard removal, aswell as can be a status absorber if Natural Cure. Also, as Eien said, it has an amazing speed tier and is perfect on HO teams. Starmie should stay as A rank

Cloyster(Ice): i dont have much of an opinion on this tbh, id probably let someone more experienced with the type go at it.

Bronzong(Psychic): It can be used as both a stealth rock setter and a trick room setter. Stealth rock setters like Mew, Deoxys and Azelf all outclass it. Its mainly used in Trick Room teams but other then that i really dont see the main reason it should be C, id say leave it in D Rank

Quagsire(Water): im not 100% sure why this was in B Rank in the first place, but i guess its cuz of its ability Unaware. Gets outclassed by Swampert, and doesnt deserve to be in the same rank as mons such as Mega Swampert, Tentacruel and Politoad. C Rank

Diggersby(Ground): Diggersbys access to Quick attack and Huge Power is great, not to mention most variants run Choice Band too. Im sorta on the edge for this one but im leaning more towards placing it in B Rank

 

[SirSkit]

Discussion #3

• 
  (Water) A--->B
• 
  (Ice) A--->B
• 
  (Psyshic) D--->C
• 
  (Water) B--->C
• 
  (Ground) C--->B

Discussion #2 Change(s)

• 
  (Dark) B--->A- Most people agreed if Mega Sableye was ban it should be moved up
• 
  (Steel) On Hold it's kind of controversial it will be discussed sometime in future
• 
  (Dragon) Stays B Mega Latias is just a better Mega to use on Dragon
• 
  (Fighting) S--->A- It's not used often on Fighting teams anymore and it needs Set up to be threatening the VR council discussed this heavily and came to that conclusion

Other Changes

Other Changes mostly regarding Banning of Mega Sableye

• 
  (Dark) B--->A
• 
  (Ghost) Unranked--->A
• 
  (Grass) D--->C
• 
  (Electric) A--->B
• 
  (Normal) B--->C
• 
  (Ice) B--->A
• 
  (Ice) B--->A
• 
  (Water) D--->C
• 
  (Flying) B--->C
• 
  (Ghost) C--->Unranked
• 
  (Water) B--->C
• 
  (Electric) B--->C
• 
  (Steel) B--->C

If you have any questions regarding the Other Changes Please Pm any of Council Wanka, Confluxx, or Myself

(Water) A--->B
Starmie is really cool on Water since it fits well on offensive teams that need something for Venusaur, but Specs Volcanion can fit in as a soft Venusaur check too. However, unlike Volcanion, Starmie can actually pull its weight against Dragon, which is a slightly rough matchup for Water. The base 115 Speed tier is also amazing, especially considering how Water typically foregoes a Choice Scarf mon. Overall nice Pokemon, I'd put it at A- if that was a thing though. Disagree. A Rank.

(Ice) A--->B
I know absolutely nothing about Ice, but uh, Cloyster seems like it's a nice wincon against a good number of types. It's kinda rough to use, considering its hard to clear out all the things that check it, and it doesn't like switching into really any attacks since its health needs to be as high as possible in order to Shell Smash and survive. Neutral.

(Psychic) D--->C
I actually really like Bronzong. I wouldn't call it the best choice for Psychic, but I don't think it's really D Rank material. You'd typically think of just going for Jirachi if you want to fill your "Psychic/Steel slot" on generic Psychic, but Bronzong has a niche that overlaps with Jirachi's and makes it its own thing. It acts as the Stealth Rock user and Fairy check (although it checks Mega Diancie slightly better due to Levitate), as well as a useful Trick Room + Dual Screens + Explosion lead (rare, but hey, it's kinda cool). Levitate is kinda underrated too honestly, since you're going to be weak to Sand Rush Excadrill unless you have Slowbro or this thing. Jirachi is a lot more versatile though, since it has access to Wish and viably runs Choice Scarf, which is why its higher ranked. I just wouldn't put it at Espeon and Sigilyph levels of cruddy in D Rank, but more on the same level as stuff like Deo-D, Cresselia, and Uxie in C Rank. Agree. C Rank.

(Water) B--->C
Quagsire only fits on Stall Water, which makes this weird. Stall Water is good, but there's like five Pokemon that are absolutely required to allow it to work, and Quagsire is one of those five. If it didn't have access to support from Alomomola and friends, it would definitely end up at D, just because I don't think it is a good Pokemon by itself. I think C Rank is more concise than B Rank when you consider this. Agree. C Rank.

(Ground) C--->B
It's hard to fit Diggersby on Ground teams, even the sandless variants. Normal/Ground doesn't have any sort of type synergy with the type, and the Choice Band and Choice Scarf sets don't offer anything important. Choice Band Garchomp (which i think was a thing?) and Landorus-T exist and arguably do it better. If you need a Choice Scarfer, just run either Sand Rush or Choice Scarf Excadrill, or, again, Landorus-T. Access to Swords Dance + STAB priority is unique though, but frankly it's just not worth it. Better options are out there. Disagree. C Rank.

 

[Zap]

Starmie: Perfect for Offensive teams as a hazard removal as eien said, and offensive teams appreciate how it can hold its own by providing coverage against fighting and grass, outspeeding base 110s, and both abilities come in great use. Stay at A.

Cloyster: Although its usage is dropping, its still a very dangerous sweeper. Ice also appreciates it's typing, access to SS (which also lets it use special moves like hydro pump and hp fire that can hit hard), and also its coverage with a rock move, which can be very useful at times to deal with certain threats. Eien and his articuno Stay at A.

Bronzong: Havent played around with it much, but I just see it as another TR setter with Explosion. Undecided.

Quagsire: Agreed, only on stall water as an unaware wall, and needs a lot of support to hold its own. Yes to C rank.

Diggersby: I think diggersby is a really powerful physical wallbreaker for ground, other than the standard excadrill. It has a decent movepool, and if it has knock off, allows mamoswine to run superpower. And since diggers usually runs band, other mons like exca and mamo become free to use another item like LO and even the rare freeze dry. It also provides the type with STAB priority in QA, meaning it relieves some pressure off of excadrill to be in sand to pick off faster threats. Also noteworthy is that it has speed higher than base 70, meaning if its max speed jolly, can outspeed threats like breloom and QA in return. It also gets wild charge, meaning it does work against water teams, as well as flying teams. (Slowbro and Skarmory). Yes to B Rank.

 

[Kilgrave]

Starmie: Starmie is a Pokemon I've had a lot of experience with in monotype so it's time for me to talk about why it should be in A.
Starmie is great on water teams. Base 100 Special Attack and base 115 Speed is amazing. It is the fastest Water Pokemon on the viability apart from Swift Swimmers. It's movepool is amazing. Scald, Psychic, Psyshock, BoltBeam, Recover, and the rare and important Rapid Spin. It has two great abilities (and one very useless one: Illuminate lel) in Natural Cure and Analytic. It beats Grass types that give Water types trouble and it can go up against Mega Venusaur. It does not deserve to be in B rank.

Cloyster: Cloyster is dangerous. Skill Link is a terrifying ability, and it gets Shell Smash. The two combined makes an almost unstoppable force. Icicle Spear and Rock Blast that hit 5 times hurt. It breaks substitutes and Focus Sashes. It defense is crazy high, and although it has a bit of an iffy typing in Water/Ice, it's a great Pokemon nonetheless. A Rank.

Bronzong: Can't really say much about it, but it seems like a niche option on Psychic team. Rank: D?

Quagsire: One word: Swampert. C Rank.

Diggersby: Hmmm. Huge Power + Choice Band = Death. However, when it comes to raw power, I think Excadrill does a better job, especially under the sand. C Rank

 

[Dece1t]

Discussion #3

• 
  (Water) A--->B
• 
  (Ice) A--->B
• 
  (Psyshic) D--->C
• 
  (Water) B--->C
• 
  (Ground) C--->B

Discussion #2 Change(s)

• 
  (Dark) B--->A- Most people agreed if Mega Sableye was ban it should be moved up
• 
  (Steel) On Hold it's kind of controversial it will be discussed sometime in future
• 
  (Dragon) Stays B Mega Latias is just a better Mega to use on Dragon
• 
  (Fighting) S--->A- It's not used often on Fighting teams anymore and it needs Set up to be threatening the VR council discussed this heavily and came to that conclusion

Other Changes

Other Changes mostly regarding Banning of Mega Sableye

• 
  (Dark) B--->A
• 
  (Ghost) Unranked--->A
• 
  (Grass) D--->C
• 
  (Electric) A--->B
• 
  (Normal) B--->C
• 
  (Ice) B--->A
• 
  (Ice) B--->A
• 
  (Water) D--->C
• 
  (Flying) B--->C
• 
  (Ghost) C--->Unranked
• 
  (Water) B--->C
• 
  (Electric) B--->C
• 
  (Steel) B--->C

If you have any questions regarding the Other Changes Please Pm any of Council Wanka, Confluxx, or Myself

Starmie I'm actually not sure. With the release of Volcanion, there's a new Mega Venusaur check (it also has the ability to tremendously help against grass, something Starmie can't do, and that Cloyster can only under special conditions). However, access to Rapid Spin is pretty handy, not to mention it's pretty fast. I think I'd lean towards B, but, again I'm not 100%.

Cloyster on Ice I disagree with being ranked down. Once boosted, Jolly sets have the ability to outspeed Scarf Victini, and it also has the ability to really threaten fore (it along with SR and Kyurem can apply some serious pressure). However, I can understand why it's brought up, it's stupidly easy to revenge kill if you have priority, and it usually can't even set up w/o it's focus sash in tact. Me personally though, I'd lean towards A rank.

Bronzong....huh? I haven't seen it all that much, and ik very little about what good sets it can use besides suicide lead. Based off that, Deoxys-S big time outclasses it on that roll, so, I suppose D?

Quagsire, same reason for why to drop alomomola. However, that does not mean Swampert is better. Unlike Swampert, it has Recovery, and an awesome ability in Unaware. If it was used more on Normal water teams (i.e. make a core of Empoleon + Quagsire or something), id say leave it be. However, it's really only used on stall teams, therefore I support the drop.

Diggersby is an interesting one, I was actually playing around with it the other day. It's pros are its immensely strong thanks to Huge Power, and, pretty much that's just about it. It's part Normal typing does no favors for Ground once so ever, and Mamoswine can also use the same coverage attacks in Knock Off and Superpower, and provide outstanding Ice coverage, and Ice priority on top of that, not to mention it's nearly as strong as Diggersby. I feel it shouldn't be ranked up, considering Mamo outclasses it big time.

 

[scpinion]

I don't have time to post on all of them, but I wanted to take a minute to post on Quagsire. I think it should stay in B rank.

People's arguments to move it down have centered around two things: 1) It requires significant team support, and 2) Swampert.

I supported the move for Alo b/c it was a 'mon that enables a particular style of Water team, much like the SS mons. In the same sense that you don't want to play SS without Kingdra or Politoed, you wouldn't want to stall without Quagsire or Alo. The key premise of Stall is that the entire team supports one another very well, thus it isn't surprising that "Quagsire needs lots of support to be effective".

While it isn't what it used to be, Stall Water is still very viable in our metagame. The initial stages of the ladder tour show people think they can use it for easy wins against the ladder (which is probably true). Thus, I don't think we should move one of the most important 'mons from this playstyle down to C rank when the rest of the team sits in S/A/B.

In light of Quagsire's primary role being on Stall Water, Swampert is really an irrelevant comparison. I completely agree that Swampert is generally a more viable 'mon—its A-level ranking reflects that. However, Swampert lacks reliable recovery and does little to help with setup sweepers, which makes Quagsire the preferred Water/Ground for Stall.

 

[Confluxx [Old]]

• 
  (Water) A--->B ; Starmie has an amazing Speed tier, great coverage, access to Rapid Spin and a Psychic typing which allows it to check Mega Venusaur and give Water an easier time against Fighting-types. Like Eien said, on offensive builds, Starmie is one of, if not the, best hazard removal option. Its Speed allows it to check threats like Mega Charizard Y and take it out with moves such as Power Gem, Thunderbolt, or Hydro Pump if sun has gone away, Choice Scarf Magnezone, which hits 360 Speed, leaving it slower than max Speed Starmie, and more. When you look at the other Water-types that are A Rank, Starmie can compare pretty well with most of them, so in my opinion it shouldn't drop. A Rank.
  
• 
  (Ice) A--->B ; I don't know that much about Ice, but I do know that the Pokemon that are most likely to be on every team are Avalugg, Kyurem-B, Walrein / Lapras, Mamoswine / Piloswine (or both), Weavile, and Mega Glaile / Abomasnow, or even Froslass. In my mind Cloyster barely finds a spot on Ice-type teams as there are better options. There aren't any other Ice-types who do the same thing as Cloyster, because it can be a setup sweeper, hazard stacker and even a spinner, but in my mind it's not so easy to fit it on your team unless you specifically build around it. I do want to hear opinions on this from more experienced Ice-type users, but for now I'm going to say it should drop. B Rank.
  
• 
  (Psychic) D--->C ; A lot of people are saying it's outclassed by so many Pokemon and it should only be used on Trick Room teams, but it's not like it's getting nominated for S Rank or anything, I think C Rank gives it justice. It's a very bulky Pokemon with a great defensive typing. It can get up hazards, set up screens, check Fairy-types etc. In my mind it definitely doesn't belong with the likes of Sigilyph and Malamar, and should go up. C Rank.
  
• 
  (Water) B--->C ; Quagsire doesn't find much, or any, usage on Water-type teams other than on Stall teams. scpinion made a nice example about not wanting to play SS Water without Kingdra and Politoed in the same sense that you don't want to play Stall without Quagsire and Alomomola. However, we have two Swift Swim abusers in Ludicolo and Seismitoad in C Rank, because they are not that viable outside of Swift Swim teams, so in the same sense I think Quagsire isn't that viable outside of Stall teams and should drop. C Rank.
• 
  (Ground) C--->B ; I've used Diggersby Ground quite a bit and I think Diggersby is a great Pokemon, and just because Excadrill and Mamoswine are better options, doesn't mean that Diggersby is worthless because as I said in my thought about Bronzong, it's not like it's being nominated for S Rank. Diggersby has amazing wallbreaking capabilities and has no switchins outside of Pokemon that resist it's STAB moves (keep in mind only two types resist Normal and one type is immune to it, and Diggersby carries the coverage to hit it). Although Excadrill has Sand Rush to boost its Speed, Diggersby hits much harder and its Speed is decent for a wallbreaker because if you bring it in on a slower Pokemon you are pretty much guaranteed a kill, while Excadrill has to rely on high roll to 2HKO Slowbro. B Rank.

 

[scpinion]

• 
  (Water) A--->B ; Starmie has an amazing Speed tier, great coverage, access to Rapid Spin and a Psychic typing which allows it to check Mega Venusaur and give Water an easier time against Fighting-types. Like Eien said, on offensive builds, Starmie is one of, if not the, best hazard removal option. Its Speed allows it to check threats like Mega Charizard Y and take it out with moves such as Power Gem, Thunderbolt, or Hydro Pump if sun has gone away, Choice Scarf Magnezone, which hits 360 Speed, leaving it slower than max Speed Starmie, and more. When you look at the other Water-types that are A Rank, Starmie can compare pretty well with most of them, so in my opinion it shouldn't drop. A Rank.
  
• 
  (Ice) A--->B ; I don't know that much about Ice, but I do know that the Pokemon that are most likely to be on every team are Avalugg, Kyurem-B, Walrein / Lapras, Mamoswine / Piloswine (or both), Weavile, and Mega Glaile / Abomasnow, or even Froslass. In my mind Cloyster barely finds a spot on Ice-type teams as there are better options. There aren't any other Ice-types who do the same thing as Cloyster, because it can be a setup sweeper, hazard stacker and even a spinner, but in my mind it's not so easy to fit it on your team unless you specifically build around it. I do want to hear opinions on this from more experienced Ice-type users, but for now I'm going to say it should drop. B Rank.
  
• 
  (Psychic) D--->C ; A lot of people are saying it's outclassed by so many Pokemon and it should only be used on Trick Room teams, but it's not like it's getting nominated for S Rank or anything, I think C Rank gives it justice. It's a very bulky Pokemon with a great defensive typing. It can get up hazards, set up screens, check Fairy-types etc. In my mind it definitely doesn't belong with the likes of Sigilyph and Malamar, and should go up. C Rank.
  
• 
  (Water) B--->C ; Quagsire doesn't find much, or any, usage on Water-type teams other than on Stall teams. scpinion made a nice example about not wanting to play SS Water without Kingdra and Politoed in the same sense that you don't want to play Stall without Quagsire and Alomomola. However, we have two Swift Swim abusers in Ludicolo and Seismitoad in C Rank, because they are not that viable outside of Swift Swim teams, so in the same sense I think Quagsire isn't that viable outside of Stall teams and should drop. C Rank.
• 
  (Ground) C--->B ; I've used Diggersby Ground quite a bit and I think Diggersby is a great Pokemon, and just because Excadrill and Mamoswine are better options, doesn't mean that Diggersby is worthless because as I said in my thought about Bronzong, it's not like it's being nominated for S Rank. Diggersby has amazing wallbreaking capabilities and has no switchins outside of Pokemon that resist it's STAB moves (keep in mind only two types resist Normal and one type is immune to it, and Diggersby carries the coverage to hit it). Although Excadrill has Sand Rush to boost its Speed, Diggersby hits much harder and its Speed is decent for a wallbreaker because if you bring it in on a slower Pokemon you are pretty much guaranteed a kill, while Excadrill has to rely on high roll to 2HKO Slowbro. B Rank.

There's a huge difference in Ludicolo/Seismitoad and Quagsire.

Those two SS mons are outclassed by things like Kingdra and Mega-Swampert, mons that are in B rank.There isn't a replacement for Quagsire on Stall. If anything, it outclasses something like Gastrodon in the sense that both are bulky water/ground types with reliable recovery.

The comparison with Ludicolo and Seismitoad is equally as poor as the Swampert comparison in my opinion and isn't a good reason to move this down.