ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread (Final ORAS Update - Post #1164)

[Nayrz]

Well, this thread was opened early before I could make some things clear, but I suppose we have to deal with what we have. Here's some news for you all.

First up, the big one - Posts that do not suggest where a mon will fall inside its "new" ranking will be ignored. Straight up ditched. In an ideal world I could have been able to post this before everyone jumped back in (and already ignored this rule) to set things straight but Sweep is impatient :(

Why enforce this? Well, we spent a lot of time (Nov-Jan) sorting this thread by viability over alphabetically to better reflect the metagame. With everyone posting nominations that don't suggest a spot INSIDE its ranking and instead just say "this should be A+" over "this should be A+, underneath Mega Gengar", that leaves me and other mods to GUESS where the user wanted it to be placed, or use our own opinions. This can lead to inaccuracies, and after a while of that happening, the system falls apart and needs to be reset again. For this system to work properly and not just have been a huge waste of time, it has to be done properly. I actually went over this back in April and it was still outright ignored, so we have to actually set it in stone. Users that have already posted since the reopening should likely edit their posts if they want to avoid this. Suggestions for where a mon goes inside a rank should be against what is currently in the rankings, over what was nominated by other users (or themselves).

Next up, an obvious one that appears to have fallen a little over the course of this thread. Shitposting (this does not mean "bad nominations", for the record) is a no-go and will actually be enforced. Anyone that replies to a shitpost will be looked at as "fueling the fire" and will join the original user on the infraction list. Anyone wondering where this came from are free to go back a page or two and see some perfect examples. Replying to a nomination you feel is silly with a "hehe xd u are noob" style of post is welcome to an infraction as well. This rarely if ever happens but I'm covering it anyway. I'm not asking for robotic responses and showering users with nice comments, but I am looking for civility at the very least.

This thread will be updated at a semi-regular pace (no set time) in order to keep things from changing too much, too fast. ORAS Ubers is, for the most part, stable, and mons changing rank every 2 weeks is unnecessary.

 

[Aberforth]

Edited previous post to say where in each rank I'd put them.

 

[LucosDiCampos]

Bronzong from B to B+
Bronzong is, like mentioned above by HailFall a really underselled mon. It's a really solid stealth rocker that fairies are unable to touch.
Above Skarmory, under Landorus-T.
Dialga from B+ to A-
One of the best leads on HO. Really deserves a to go to A-.
I'd say place it at the top of A-, above Primal Kyogre.
Ditto from C- to C
I know, I know, Ditto is practically deadweight versus stall. But it is very hard to deal with for HO, and basicly every pokemon that likes to set up. It should go to C imo (Not higher, that would be overestimating it).
Above Arceus-Grass, under Kyurem-White.
Arceus-Ground from A to A+
Arceus-Ground is an amazing mon right now, as an offensive sweeper, as well as a support mon. Calm Mind is a viable option as well, and a mon with so many good options/sets that is able to shit on the monster that is Primal Groudon should deserve A+ imo.
Somewhere at the near-top, maybe above Arceus-Water.
Arceus-Water from A+ to A
Although it's a good mon, I think A+ is overselling it, especially with the rise of Arceus-Dragon on balance over Arceus-Water.
Giratina-O from A+ to A-
A+ is too much. It's a good pokemon, but gets whittled pretty easily, and basicly needs to be fully dedicated to being a defogger, cause it fails to do multiple jobs most of the time. Like I said, a good pokemon, but really overselling it. A- should fit it nicely.
Above Arceus-Dragon, under Deoxys-Attack.
Arceus-Ghost from A to A+
Especially with the Calm Mind version getting more and more popular, and belonging to the top 2 ghost types in ubers, this should go to A+
I say put it at the bottom of A+

 

[Spyro Chris]

Alright. Since we need to elaborate further:

- Dialga at A in the final slot for the reasons people mentioned above.
- Giratina-Origin: top of A- seems fine.
- Ho-Oh: last slot of S for the sole reason that Darkrai needs less support to function at its full potential. That's a small detail, though. A+ seems off for it, definitely.
- Lugia: last slot of A-. B+ seems a bit too harsh.
- Arceus-Ghost: it should take up Giratina-Origin's place in A+. It suits it well, again for reasons mentioned above.

Last but not least, something that seems like a nitpick but I gotta say it: Rayquaza over Kyogre-Primal. The mixed set with Draco Meteor / V-Create (or Earthquake) / Dragon Ascent / Extreme Speed works wonders right now. Definitely better than pretty much all viable Kyogre-Primal sets. Really helpful teammate for Pokémon such as Arceus-Normal or Arceus-Ground.

 

[LucosDiCampos]

Forgot a mon in my previous post.
Arceus-Fairy from B- to B+
Arceus-Fairy is a very underestimated mon that has been increasing in popularity.
It's a great support pokemon, and can win games with the Iron Defense + Calm Mind set.
Right now it stands equal to pokemon like Arceus-Dark, Greninja, and Blaziken, which seems ridiculous to me.

 

[Heavyweapons Mann]

For the Ubers VR, can we suggest general spots like from low B to Mid-high B+?

 

[Aberforth]

Bronzong from B to B+
Bronzong is, like mentioned above by HailFall a really underselled mon. It's a really solid stealth rocker that fairies are unable to touch.
Dialga from A- to A
One of the best leads on HO. Really deserves a to go to A.
Ditto from C- to C
I know, I know, Ditto is practically deadweight versus stall. But it is very hard to deal with for HO, and basicly every pokemon that likes to set up. It should go to C imo (Not higher, that would be overestimating it).
Arceus-Ground from A to A+
Arceus-Ground is an amazing mon right now, as an offensive sweeper, as well as a support mon. Calm Mind is a viable option as well, and a mon with so many good options/sets that is able to shit on the monster that is Primal Groudon should deserve A+ imo.
Arceus-Water from A+ to A
Although it's a good mon, I think A+ is overselling it, especially with the rise of Arceus-Dragon on balance over Arceus-Water.
Giratina-O from A+ to A-
A+ is too much. It's a good pokemon, but gets whittled pretty easily, and basicly needs to be fully dedicated to being a defogger, cause it fails to do multiple jobs most of the time. Like I said, a good pokemon, but really overselling it. The top of A- should fit it nicely.
Arceus-Ghost from A to A+
Especially with the Calm Mind version getting more and more popular, and belonging to the top 2 ghost types in ubers, this should definetly go to A+

Bronzong, Dialga, Waterceus, Gira-O and Ghostceus I agree with you on, but Ditto is ranked at C- due to its large ineffectiveness against any team other than the standard HO, preventing some (although not all) setup and most smart offenses can deal with it with little to no problems, to say nothing of its matchup vs more balanced teams that utilize pokemon like Ho-oh and Latios and Arceus formes that aren't ekiller. Groundceus on the other hand is pretty much fine where it is, the SD set has some hard counters it needs to work around that limit it too much from rising and CM Groundceus is not worth a rise at all. If CM were becoming more popular, I'd honestly argue for a drop considering how much worse it is than SD.

Sweep Fireburn Hack Nayrz What is the definition of "viability"? Forgive my cognitive limitations, but I just cannot seem to be able to find it anywhere!

...Does anyone know?

I believe clarifying this would help guide the foundation upon which nominations are established.

James Jimmy hehe xd you are noob

This part has been edited to seem less mean. Google gives this.

The noun viability means the quality of being able to happen or having a reasonable chance of success.

In this context it should be argued that the viability of a pokemon is weighted on the chance of success that pokemon has of fulfilling its role satisfactorily when compared to a standard perfect role (thankfully we have pdon for this) with additional weighting given to the variety and importance of the roles therein. There is naturally a level of subjectivity but in general the concept of a viability ranking thread is very explored now. Giving definitions was tried in the past, but abolished because it didn't work well enough at defining such a vague concept as viability that everyone has their own opinion on and will never reach a definition that will satisfy everyone.

Forgot a mon in my previous post.
Arceus-Fairy from B- to B+
Arceus-Fairy is a very underestimated mon that has been increasing in popularity.
It's a great support pokemon, and can win games with the Iron Defense + Calm Mind set.
Right now it stands equal to pokemon like Arceus-Dark, Greninja, and Blaziken, which seems ridiculous to me.

As the guy who was advocating for that set to be the main set, you're greatly overestimating Fairyceus. Its fine where it is, it has too many problems with status, Mega Gengar, Steels and things like SD Groudon to rise nearly that high.

For the Ubers VR, can we suggest general spots like from low B to Mid-high B+?

Being vague can be unhelpful in this sort of situation, and Nayrz probably doesn't want the headache of figuring out where exactly to put something in subranks of a subrank, so being specific is probably in everyone's best interest.

 

[Hack]

Sweep Fireburn Hack Nayrz What is the definition of "viability"? Forgive my cognitive limitations, but I just cannot seem to be able to find it anywhere!

...Does anyone know?

I believe clarifying this would help guide the foundation upon which nominations are established.

James Jimmy hehe xd you are noob

For me viability would be the measure on how many [good] teams a mon fits on. I have a somewhat OK numerical definition that I use myself but it's a bit subjective.

Some options:

-People who think Ghostceus should move above Waterceus are wrong. Ghostceus lacks any redeeming defensive qualities outside the espeed immunity (which isn't as big as it could be considering its best set, SD, almost dies some +2 LO ekiller sets, making it a very faulty check). It's espeed is weak, but much needed to bypass some mons- Darkrai comes first to mind but don't forget about Deoxys-A. Again the SD set is its best bet at achieving something but it lacks bulk and flexibility. Shadow Force is strong af but not insanely strong before set up and there are numerous ways to play around it. Even teams "weak" to it on paper can employ shenanigans in both playing and building to get around its weakness. Giratina-O teams can employ the Sforce of its own, ghost+normal combos stall it, and it is VERY weak to any status (paralysis makes shadow force a 56.25 % secure option to use, toxic builds up soo quickly and then there is burn...). Switching moves in its set to mitigate these flaws only results in an overall weaker set. It also competes for a spot on offensive teams with the universally accepted, more viable mon, Ekiller. Meanwhile you have Waterceus- the most splashable (yeah lol I made a pun) Arceus forme. So what you can make of this is that Arceus Water should stay A+ while Ghostceus should fine wherever it is.

-I've seen some posts regarding Dialga and Giratina-O. Now, I'm not against Giratina-O dropping slightly but it should be a rank above Dialga. Giratina-O has two very flexible sets, but as Sweep points out it's easy to wear down. So A-rank might be fine for it. Dialga I've warmed up to. I just think it has a case of bad building+4mss. But again no 680ish base mon has a flying resist which means a lot (forgot krom lol). A- is fine. Or maybe A, but under Giratina-O.

-Ho-oh should remain S, nothing has changed. People tend to think it has a bad match up vs offense. This is simply not the case. It's the best sleep absorber, a decent Xern check (to mono moonblast Xern which people tend to use a lot as of late) and a great anti lead to boot. It will very well at least trade vs heavier offense if you play it correctly and with some twave support it might do more than that. It is the only mon other than Gar and SD SR Pdon that immidiately threatens stall without any support (this means no SR on either side).

-Lugia should drop to A or whatever people are saying. I think it's fairly obvious and I'll provide reasons if needed.

-Deo-A should be in A-rank I feel. It's a stupidly good attacker with some utility in espeed.

-Arceus-Ground feels fine in A. It has 2 pretty neat sets but it just doesn't offer as much of a unique role as for example Waterceus. I don't see what has changed (I considered special sets to be viable before this got locked last time).

-Gengar to S-rank is something I agree with.

Now my two noms are:

-Darkrai to A+. While Darkrai is one of the most limiting mons in the tier it doesn't fit on nearly as many teams as you'd think. Infact I've really just liked 2 teams with it, one being the sampler and the other being klefk/pdon/darkrai/giratina-o/mence/arceus normal or ground. Those teams are great and I'm sure I've forgotten some other truly good teams with it but viability is a result of usage on good teams. Darkrai is very threatening but not as viable as required for S-rank. Similar arguments were made for Ekiller in BW2.

-Speaking of Ekiller, the exact same applies for it as Darkrai, albeit probably not as much. I feel Ekiller is [probably] as viable as Waterceus, slightly more viable than Ghostceus/Groundceus. It's a great sweeper, has some defensive utility with being a strong revenge killer, fairly flexible with moves/items. It does only fits on offensive teams, and faces some competition even there. However I'm unsure it warrants a drop per se so I'm only bringing this up for discussion if that is OK.

EDIT: Nayrz forced me to follow rules... When I vouch for a drop the dropped mon gets on a top of the rank it's dropped to. If several mons drop from the same rank they get ordered as they were before the drop, at the top of the ranked they are dropped in. Same logic for rises.

 

[hyw]

Thanks for your answer, Hack, makes sense to me and is intuitive. So, would you say that viability is an inherently subjective quality when examining a certain Pokémon? If so then, naturally, a ranking categorizing said value would surely be matter to, at least some degree, personal subjectivity, correct? I wanted to hear this from an Ubers moderator since it has always been unclear to me ever since the BW2 thread back in like 2012 whether the ultimate purpose of these threads was to strive for some objectively perfect classification of the metagame.

tldr Hack would you say that viability rankings are subjective by nature?

 

[LucosDiCampos]

Bronzong, Dialga, Waterceus, Gira-O and Ghostceus I agree with you on, but Ditto is ranked at C- due to its large ineffectiveness against any team other than the standard HO, preventing some (although not all) setup and most smart offenses can deal with it with little to no problems, to say nothing of its matchup vs more balanced teams that utilize pokemon like Ho-oh and Latios and Arceus formes that aren't ekiller. Groundceus on the other hand is pretty much fine where it is, the SD set has some hard counters it needs to work around that limit it too much from rising and CM Groundceus is not worth a rise at all. If CM were becoming more popular, I'd honestly argue for a drop considering how much worse it is than SD.



This part has been edited to seem less mean. Google gives this.


In this context it should be argued that the viability of a pokemon is weighted on the chance of success that pokemon has of fulfilling its role satisfactorily when compared to a standard perfect role (thankfully we have pdon for this) with additional weighting given to the variety and importance of the roles therein. There is naturally a level of subjectivity but in general the concept of a viability ranking thread is very explored now. Giving definitions was tried in the past, but abolished because it didn't work well enough at defining such a vague concept as viability that everyone has their own opinion on and will never reach a definition that will satisfy everyone.



As the guy who was advocating for that set to be the main set, you're greatly overestimating Fairyceus. Its fine where it is, it has too many problems with status, Mega Gengar, Steels and things like SD Groudon to rise nearly that high.



Being vague can be unhelpful in this sort of situation, and Nayrz probably doesn't want the headache of figuring out where exactly to put something in subranks of a subrank, so being specific is probably in everyone's best interest.

I appreciate the time you put into responding to all of this.
I can leave ditto be I guess, but like I said, if you honestly think that Arceus-Fairy is in the same league as Arceus-Dark, Greninja, and Blaziken, then you obviously haven't used Arceus-Fairy (at least not recently). I've used it a couple of times, on a couple of different team with a couple of different sets. All worked fantastic for me. If you're suggesting it should stay in B- because it's weak to steel, which is only partly true, since it gets earth power, or even a potential fire blast to be able to decently take on steel like ferrothorn, bronzong, skarmory, etc. More than half the tier struggles with Mega Gengar, and I don't know one Arceus form which appreciates status, unless you run something stupid like Facade Ekiller. Arceus Water struggles with grass types, darkrai, status, and SD Pdon, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be in A. To contradict your statement of me overestimating it, I think you're greatly underestimating the pokemon. I believe it should be in B+, B at least.

 

[hyw]

My strongest feelings concerning the higher-ranked Pokémon right now are Latios and Mega Sableye; both of which I find are ranked too high.

Latios
There's no question as to how flexible Latios is, between its offensive Defog set, four attacks set, and Calm Mind set. But I do question the degree to which it performs each of these roles successfully. Taking a look at each, first, I find the Defog set underwhelming in its ability to do just that: Defog reliably. Not only do the three main Stealth Rockers find ease in both setting up and preventing Defog (Primal Groudon, Deoxys-S, and Dialga), I find that against hyper offensive teams, it lacks the means to pressure set-ups (Memento comes to mind but that compromises functionality against balance too much), whilst against balance, the fact that most balance have shifted to compose of natural Latios checks (namely, steels like Klefki and Bronzong) makes it easy to play around. Second and third sets are compromised for similar reasons.

I think that Latios was given a spike early-on since the lack of access to Soul Dew in XY and the buff on Primal Kyogre put rose-colored glasses on everyone but honestly I don't find it more than A- rank material at the most.

I would thereby like to nominate Latios for A- between Yveltal and Mewtwo

Mega Sableye
Another Pokémon crazed back when ORAS was underdeveloped, what with Archer's sun balance, kebabe's standard stall, Tape's balance teams, and so on. But honestly, looking over paradigm shifts since then, I think we can all agree that this Pokémon has been left behind by said shifts, and rightfully so. Like Latios, it's shaky at its role as hazard control (every single Deoxys-S carries Skill Swap now it's actually hilarious how long it took for people to realize Spikes and stuff were utter shit), stall as a playstyle is borderline unviable now when this Pokémon was the playstyle's kingpin, and as a Mega slot it's difficult to justify even on balance due to how offensively-oriented the metagame has evolved into. I predict for this decree to be less controversial but I can elaborate further if deemed necessary.

I would thereby like to nominate Mega Sableye to B+ between Dialga and Arceus-Rock.

PS I don't care about Ekiller it's obviously the best Arceus form but what should be debated and established is that Arceus-Ground is the second best Arceus form, Water, Ghost, and so on should reference it for relativity thus Water is too high at A+ I'd move it down at least somewhere below Arceus-Ground.

I also wanna nominate Venomoth somewhere but idk, does it HAVE to have an analysis? It's the best Toxic Spiker right now on my opinion.

 

[MajoraInAFedora]

I am new here and most likely have no right to post in a thread like this, but may I mention Greninja has access to toxic spikes, spikes, and priority; is faster, stronger and has protean. I believe it outclasses venomoth.

Edit: figured it was a joke. I am dumb and need a good slap

 

[Crestfall]

I am new here and most likely have no right to post in a thread like this, but may I mention Greninja has access to toxic spikes, spikes, and priority; is faster, stronger and has protean. I believe it outclasses venomoth.

I just want to post that being new doesn't mean you don't have the right to express your opinion. The reason this misconception exists is because generally new users are unaware or not that knowledgeable about a meta or about any number of factors. This leads to their posts often being littered with mistakes/inconsistencies or pieces of information that clearly demonstrate a lack of awareness. Your post does however contest the venomoth nom in a proper way.

I imagine the reason he thinks venomoth is better though is because it has access to sleep and with a focus sash (I assume this is the item to use) it could sleep most things (excluding scarfed dual hitters, faster lum berry users, magic bouncers, insomnia users).

E: hyw m diancie just kills it anyways lol. u skill swap then die t2 :((

 

[hyw]

Crestfall Are you sure about Magic Boncers? ;) (Hint: It's the only Pokémon that can both set up Toxic Spikes and Sleep Powder against Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie.

Toxic Spikes are a rather niche strategy in the metagame right now, though, more of a gimmick than anything else due to Mega Gengar's omnipresence.

Let's focus our attention on sorting out things like Latios and Mega Sableye again guys!

 

[zf]

Here's what I think the rankings should look like. Each move will have an explanation.

S+
Primal Groudon: Same as before

S
Xerneas: This is more Mence being worse right now than Xern getting better.

Mega-Gengar: It's the most splashable ORAS mega and fits on every type of team. Gengar provides defensive utility / insurance vs every slower threat (invaluable for offense). Meta trends (bulk-less Ho-Oh, Wisp Gar, more offensive PDon) benefit Gengar, allowing it to pressure balance much more.

Mega-Salamence: It's not as solid as it once was. Setup options are limited vs most teams and it doesn't check as much for offense as it used to. Dialga is also everywhere right now, which doesn't help it. Not very splashable either. Façade and raw wallbreaking power still keep it in S though.

Arceus-Normal: EKiller's still very good. Splashable on a lot of offenses and provides utility with it's strong priority. Not many solid counters and has enough set diversity to screw over certain checks (Recover, Magic Coat, etc)

A+
Ho-Oh: Ho-Oh is deadweight vs offense when SR is up, which is now easier to keep up than ever thanks to the spike in Dialga usage. Still good overall, but it's too inconsistent/needs too much support for S.

Darkrai: The meta has adapted to Darkrai and far fewer teams are extremely weak to it (Deo-A, Gengar, and sleep absorbing scarfmons are much more common rn than when it was boosted to S). It's also hard to fit on teams compared to other comparable mons. Still, it's threatening and very useful for offense.

Klefki: Other A+ mons got worse, hence the relative rise.

Deoxys-A: As Orch stated earlier, it's amazing vs every playstyle and is very hard to check. High speed and priority makes it the ultimate revenge killer.

Arceus-Water: Dialga and SD PDon usage make Waterceus worse as both a defogger and defensive pivot. However, it still blanket checks a lot and is super splashable. Plus, some new techs Hack mentioned make it a bit better than everyone's making it out to be.

A
Giratina-O: Again, Dialga usage makes Tina-O a liability as a defogger. Prone to being worn down and will always be bait for at least 1 very threatening mon depending on its set.

Arceus-Ground: SD is as threatening as ever. Its support set adds another facet to an already good mon.

Mega-Diancie: Same as before.

Arceus-Ghost: Same as before except it now has SubCM too.

Latios: Yveltal / Bronzong usage are up and it directly competes with Deo-A for a teamslot.

Dialga: It's a great offensive Mence check. As a SR setter, it pressures every defogger and frees up PDon to do something else.

A-
Yveltal: It's a strong wallbreaker that's relatively tough to check (offensive fairies are only soft checks). Strong priority and increase in MGar / Ghostceus / Deo-A usage is beneficial too.

Lugia: Needs a lot of support and only fits on a couple of teams. WoW Gar / SubCM Ghostceus / Yveltal / Dialga usage isn't a great meta trend for it. Still very potent if it gets in vs offense and they don't have have one of the mons that can kill it tho.

Deo-S: Only fits on 1-2 teams and most teams carry an anti-lead nowadays. Increase in Deo-A usage is beyond terrible for Deo-S teams (sample team included) because it anti-leads Deo-S and forces EKiller in to revenge it.

Primal Kyogre: It's a good status spreader and a huge pain in the ass for passive / bulky teams. Not a bad sleep absorber either.

Rayquaza: I find it a bit outclassed by Yveltal in the current meta but it's still a good wallbreaker / sweeper and the priority is nice.

Arceus-Dragon: Same as before.

Landorus-Therian: Scarf Lando-T fits on many teams and is unique as an offensive sleep absorber that gains momentum and has defensive utility.

B+
Mewtwo: Competes directly with Deo-A for a teamslot. Increased Ghostceus / Yveltal usage doesn't help it either.

Mega-Sableye: It's bait for some very threatening mons (Diancie, Yveltal, Xerneas) and the passive teams that it performs well against and fits on are worse in this meta.

Arceus-Rock: Lots of balances and offenses have at most 1 rock resist, making it especially potent as a lategame sweeper. The flying resist is nice now that mono-Mence is standard.

Bronzong: As far as niche steels go, Bronzong is the most consistent and checks more than the others. It also has some neats techs to help vs specific threats (Protect vs CB Ho-Oh, Skill Swap vs Sab, Future Sight+Protect vs MGar, etc).

Excadrill: It has two viable sets, both of which are good and fits on multiple playstyles.

Mega-Mewtwo-Y: It's fast, strong, and sleep immune. Very similar to normal Mewtwo except it takes up the mega slot and outspeeds MGar.

Mega-Kangaskhan: It's a potent wallbreaker with very few real checks. Fake Out and its speed tier are very useful vs Deo-A and most other wallbreakers (Latios, Ray, Yveltal, etc).

Latias: It's much more passive than Latios and the extra bulky isn't that useful. Very few reasons to use it over Tina-O or Latios.

Shaymin-Sky: Good speed tier, nice STABs, and Healing Wish utility. However, it has very little defensive utility outside of revenge killing and has some common checks.


Skarm and TTar to somewhere in the high B rank but idk where. They're passive and don't check as much as they used to.

 

[squinn]

i agree with ghostceus and hooh staying in their rank for the above mentioned reasons
ive already stated my opinion about zong and gengar in a previous post and agree with both of them rising and the latter swapping its spot with darkrai

ive also nominated mmx to drop in that post

deo-a to A:
this things popularity has increased so much since this threads lock so a rise would be fitting. its just insanely powerful and espeed, being able to finish off low percentage mons, can be very useful.

arceus fairy to b+:
more and more teams use this and apparently random fairyceus on offense doesnt seem to be that bad. b+ is honestly too much though. a place in B above zekrom should be ok

---------------
i've got some nominations to make:

latias to b(top of b):
the same reasons for its drop to b+ can be applied here. its usage has decreased even further...

mewtwo to b+ (i think below lando-t? please comment on this):
its usage has decreased, simply because darkrai outclasses it on like 90% of HO teams. darkrai+mewtwo arent easy to fit on one team

blissey to b-(above greninja?):
stall being bad should def be a reason to make blissey drop. its only seen on stall, which is bad itself , because its passiveness and one sided defensive utility let too many things come in for free.

mblaze and tentacruel to D rank

mega blazikens increased speed tier doesnt even out its inferiority to regular blaze. it deals less damage and takes up a mega slot, idk how this can be run on any serious team.

uhh tentacruel just sucks. in theory, spinning against HO and laying tspikes seems cool but its way to passive and vulnerable to be viable


i have more noms and comments on other peoples nominations but im too tired to write those now ;o;

 

[0kay]

Man the thread was just reopened and the trolls flooded in...
However, I want to address something. Mega-Metagross got an analysis some time ago but it is still not on the viability rankings. Because of this, I nominate Mega-Metagross from unranked -> C rank below Eleceus but above Fightceus. Metagross is definitely viable and usable to pop Ho-Oh with a surprise rock slide, or revenge Xerneas with a bullet punch. Metagross reaches a good speed tier on 110 being able to outspeed a good majority of the unboosted tier, and makes it so it will at worst speed tie with the Latis which Metagross can pursuit trap. Metagross also has priority in bullet punch so the mons that do outspeed it can still get revenged.
However, most things can usually take a hit from Metagross causing it to need a lot of support to get threats heavily weakened before Metagross can revenge kill. Not only that but Metagross is checked by very common threats in this meta such as; Yveltal, Pdon, almost every Arceus forme, Lando-T, etc. And despite Metagross' high speed tier, it's still outsped by Arceus and Mega-Gengar which are obviously very common and can revenge Metagross quite easily if not at minimal HP.
Due to these pros and cons, I think my placing of Metagross is pretty accurate. However, if users think it should go lower I can definitely see why.

Also, almost everything zf said I agree with, although Latias should be above Mega-Kang and Sab should be below Rockceus.

 

[Archon]

Blissey should be put lower. There are comments above explaining this so scroll up if you want an explanation

 

[LucosDiCampos]

I'm wondering why chansey isn't ranked.
9/10 times it's the better blissey, so it should at least be on the rankings.
I'd suggest putting it at the bottom of B, and move Blissey down to B-.

 

[LucosDiCampos]

Shadow tag. Shed shell.

Some mod should probably clean up one liners, including this one

Chansey is way more common nowadays, and, except for that scenario, outclasses blissey.

 

[HailFall]

Taunt mega gengar has seen an incredible decline in usage anyways, and both of them should always be paired with a pursuit trapper regardless so yeah chansey isn't bad anymore.

 

[Spyro Chris]

As Hack have said before, it's better if we don't pretend this is XY. Most Gengar do not run Taunt, and Chansey can run Thunder-Wave.

 

[mags]

Every stall team should lose to a team with mgar given the mgar user is not an idiot. So that means the difference between blissey and chansey is not a big deal.

 

[Inspirited]

I personally don't think Chansey outclasses Blissey at all nor is the opposite true. The decision between the two is largely opinionated and should be an acquired taste rather than someone telling you which one is better. Chansey has more of an ability to switch in and tank direct damage while Blissey cares less about status thanks to Leftovers or can use Shed Shell if you really need the ability to switch it out of Mega Gengar. I could use them almost interchangeably on the two teams I have that use one or the other and it wouldn't make a difference unless sand is involved (Stall). The two being ranked right next to each other at the bottom of B is probably what is best.

I mostly agree with ZF's ranking at the moment with the exceptions being Deo-S who should still be near the middle A at least and Kyogre who's decompression when compared to other mons is one of the harder things to offset and is probably looking at low B+ high B imo. Deoxys-S may only fit a few teams and may have antileads against it, but it has very direct ways of getting passed those anti-leads and will always have a massive influence if those aren't present. The anti-leads feel more like an inconvenience than an actual stop to Deo-S or its team.

Trying to offset Kyogre's de-compressive nature on a team is something I have never really been able to overcome and I always find myself scratching it when trying to cap the team off. I'm sure others have had more success, but honestly I find it slightly better than Sableye; nothing more.

 

[Sweep]

Am I the only one starting to run Taunt on Mega Gengar again? It is adorable that Chansey is free and breathing some fresh air etc, but it would be more adorable back in Azkaban getting tortured by dementors. Taunt also allows Gengar to remove Lugia more easily, give Xerneas / SD Groundceus set-up opportunities, etc. People do not expect it any more, and as a result I feel people are less prepared for sets with Taunt...which makes Gengar even more versatile and worthy of S rank in my opinion.