Media Videogame thread

Acklow

I am always tired. Don't bother me.
I'm just gonna say that despite its share of plotholes, Zero Time Dilemma has the most depth out of all of the ZE games go, especially in regards to how Zero's identity is handled. My only gripe is that a couple characters could've had just a tad more development and it looked like one or two scenes may have been cut.

I loved it.


Also Carlos is legit the biggest bro I've seen in a game in a while.
 
damn that is a really good bundle, I'm tempted, but I already have Civ V and Spec Ops so idk.

On that note, I highly recommend Spec Ops, incredibly enjoyable and intelligent story
 
My problem with ZTD is largely its role as a conclusion to the trilogy, which is partially a fault with VLR as it was left on a cliffhanger (which ended up nearly fatal, I thought I'd never see this game so I'm happy with what I got). It just didn't really feel like it continued on from ZTD; I know it didn't literally, but I couldn't see how the timeline with VLR really happened from ZTD, while I could see how the ZTD timelines evolved in themselves. ZTD would've been fine by itself. I hated how they developed that ridiculous Brother/Free the Soul plot and then barely touched on it, I guess. That being said, I loved the game and binged it from 0% to 100%; it was so so so enjoyable and I was impressed with a lot of things, such as its production quality, focus on characterisation (though some characters sucked), tightness (for most of the game...), group dynamics, and structure (I really, really was nervous about the 90-min fragment structure and ended up thinking it was amazing).

I agree the Decision Game is overly simple but it works really well with the flowchart. I also agree with von's criticism that the Decision Game was used to dumb down the psychological horror, as the Ambidex Game was a far more intelligent version of the Decision Game (although I did enjoy the actual individual decisions). The only good 'decision' was that decision with the gun, and I didn't like the way the reactions to your decision were written. I also really missed the explicit inclusion of Kyle; just knowing he was almost certainly there as ??? was a huge letdown.

I do not believe VLR was worse than 999. VLR is one of the only games I have been unable to play at night. This is because I am really good at taking gore but not good at taking atmospheric creepiness, which VLR absolutely nailed. I also felt VLR was generally more intelligent and, while the majority of the random characters sucked, the main characters ruled. The game was ludicrous (and I think VLR and ZTD are both written on a different scale of 'fake deep scifi' grandioseness, although Akane in ZTD was actually pushing my limits with some downright made up neuroscience [the epigenetics stuff was good tho]) and had lesser overall characters, but incredible tone and, for its absurd length, a fairly engrossing plot that played its hand rather well except for one character. It really did introduce too much shit to tie up though. I preferred the setting of VLR because it pushed all my personal interest buttons and its decreased linearity, although 999 was a lot cleaner story-wise and had better emotional gutwrenches in most of the endings. I also felt VLR was harder to solve, even though there was nothing in 999 to really give you the solution, while correctly foreshadowing many of its secondary mysteries (999 was a lot worse in this department, although you could argue that's because all the mysteries were important to the ending, which was infinitely cleaner). I guess I would say VLR and 999 are for different types but I felt ZTD was for neither person, despite having many good traits.

Phi in ZTD sucked and so did Junpei (I understood why Junpei was the way he was, but it was mishandled in how Junpei and Akane were pitted against each other around decisions, because Akane's manipulativeness was downplayed and only called out a few times; a certain other game's Junpei was written a lot better from the 'jaded' perspective). But I loved the new characters! Eric was actually a surprisingly decent depiction of a character with PTSD and his story played itself out rather well over the scenes. They fucked up the Mira-Eric connection
by never making Mira the killer of Eric's mother or otherwise making Eric somewhat plausible as so similar to her 'first'
but Mira was alright too for the obligatory fanservice outfit character. Q was my favourite. It just bothered me that there never felt like a real reason for a lot of them to be there, while a lot of old characters in the series were never seen again
that Aoi never mattered again to Akane and was just thrown under the 'Crash Keys' bus has always driven me insane, as well as Snake disappearing
.

The Zero twist was cool on a gimmick level and I loved how it tied that other decision together, but it was not emotionally resonant at all, especially for a series finale. And I think that was the biggest 'farcical' feeling I got from it. You couldn't be attached to the reveal at all (the post-transporter reveal behind it gave it away instantly also, and was probably more impactful) in a series that delights in playing with affection, and it broke plot continuity and forced some dumb handwaves. But if it didn't give you at least a jump scare when you go back to that decision (and also, it's actually quite decently foreshadowed) you're lying :P I think it was honestly a plot hole though and it felt like it was cheating the spirit of the game and the idea of Zero as a solvable mystery..

And I only criticise things I love like this, so...

I realised Zero couldn't be any of them quite a way in because of how the game was structured, since they'd used the Sigma twist before, Q was too obvious to be Zero at face value for a series like this, Mira was the 'Ace/Dio' figure and too underwhelming to be Zero, Eric eventually ruled himself out by legit being too dumb, all the three 'main' characters sadly ruled themselves out too narratively because the plot set them up too much repeatedly as heroes and overlapping with a duplicate Sigma twist or else I would've bet money on Carlos, Diana was the basis for Luna, and I forget why I thought it couldn't be Phi but she was my personal hope and would have made a perfectly reasonable, if underwhelming, Zero if it weren't for the fact the game was supposed to be about Free the Soul. Best Zero definitely would've been the COMPLETELY NON-EXISTENT KYLE KLIM, who ALSO has a cloning storyline. #daddyissues If Kyle had been in that position instead somehow it would've mattered to me a lot I guess? I don't know. Especially with the reveal that Phi and Sigma are related (and Diana is Phi's mom and Luna was a copy of Kyle's.. stepmother?). Dunno how it would've worked with Kyle releasing Radical-6 but tbh he was willing to do some fucked up stuff in VLR just to get to Sigma/deal wtih his clone issues/to survive... I think the only situation I would've accepted the villain really seriously didn't intend to unleash Radical-6 as a world-ender was a situation where it was meant to be used against the participants as a threat to keep hostages... I would've been ok with Kyle doing a heel-face-heel turn as well

That Zero was not really one of the group just did not feel impactful, it felt like a cheap way out of a group of former Zeros and former players, especially with it being Phi's goddamn random sibling that never ever mattered at any other point. I think his motives were explained okay but it was too complex for his Complex Motives and the terrorism plot that underpinned VLR just got ruined entirely by Brother and Left being ignored.


But for real, I just enjoyed all the character moments so much that in the end I didn't even mind the problems with the story, and when you think the story is good it's pretty gripping. I guess I'm the kind of person who's trained myself to not mind the ending as much if I enjoyed the preceding 90%, even if I think it's a letdown.
 
Last edited:

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
jumpluff

Mira did kill Eric's mom. I'm not certain where this is confirmed, but it's pretty obvious from the ending where she goes crazy with radical-6.
 
vonFiedler

I thought she did until Eric literally never reacted to it, like it was heavily implied, especially since most of the characters are at least tenuously linked by the snail story

But I replayed that ending because of your post (also because it's one of my favourites), and if you meant the Circle of Fate ending (D END 1), there's nothing in there. If you mean the ending where you don't inject and Mira steals the Radical 6, there are hints there but not as overt as Eric's death words etc. My problem is when Eric finds out Mira is the Heart Ripper he never reacts to the fact she killed his mom at all and it's weird as hell

#kyle_should_have_been_zero forcing Sigma to pick between Phi's birth and his if we were going to make the plot of 999 entirely irrelevant anyway (hello? dashiell?) I like the theory someone came up with that Left was in the original nonary game tho
 

PK Gaming

Persona 5
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
vonFiedler

I thought she did until Eric literally never reacted to it, like it was heavily implied, especially since most of the characters are at least tenuously linked by the snail story

But I replayed that ending because of your post (also because it's one of my favourites), and if you meant the Circle of Fate ending (D END 1), there's nothing in there. If you mean the ending where you don't inject and Mira steals the Radical 6, there are hints there but not as overt as Eric's death words etc. My problem is when Eric finds out Mira is the Heart Ripper he never reacts to the fact she killed his mom at all and it's weird as hell

#kyle_should_have_been_zero forcing Sigma to pick between Phi's birth and his if we were going to make the plot of 999 entirely irrelevant anyway (hello? dashiell?)
It's this particular ending that makes it clear that Eric and the first victim are related. Because anime.

He doesn't react to it because the game never lets him to grow as a person. He's stunted; partly by design (not a SHIFTer) and partly because he spends a good chunk of the game being a plot device (Eric x Shotgun is the OTP)

It's frustrating
 
It's this particular ending that makes it clear that Eric and the first victim are related. Because anime.

He doesn't react to it because the game never lets him to grow as a person. He's stunted; partly by design (not a SHIFTer) and partly because he spends a good chunk of the game being a plot device (Eric x Shotgun is the OTP)
Yeah I know, that's why I assumed they were related in the first place, I just ended up writing it off as a really anime coincidence BECAUSE ERIC NEVER RELATED TO IT WHY GUYS WHY JUST GIVE THEM MONEY SO THEY CAN FINISH GAME PROPERLY because if Eric ever had character development except 'What? Mira is dead? pewpewpewpew', as in growing forwards rather than learning about his backstory (which was well-rendered) and then never letting him fulfil any real purpose except guarding Zero's buddy, he would've had to confront some of the heaviest shit

Ty btw, and yes that is one of my favourite endings hahaha

My actual favourite ending is one of the Sean endings where his head unscrews and you just see the little screw... that was the scariest moment in the game tbh
 

PK Gaming

Persona 5
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Yeah I know, that's why I assumed they were related in the first place, I just ended up writing it off as a really anime coincidence BECAUSE ERIC NEVER RELATED TO IT WHY GUYS WHY JUST GIVE THEM MONEY SO THEY CAN FINISH GAME PROPERLY because if Eric ever had character development except 'What? Mira is dead? pewpewpewpew', as in growing forwards rather than learning about his backstory (which was well-rendered) and then never letting him fulfil any real purpose except guarding Zero's buddy, he would've had to confront some of the heaviest shit

Ty btw, and yes that is one of my favourite endings hahaha

My actual favourite ending is one of the Sean endings where his head unscrews and you just see the little screw... that was the scariest moment in the game tbh
I definitely feel your pain. Had high hopes for Eric, but they never really went anywhere with him and it's such a bummer.

Everything related to Sean is fantastic because he's legitimately one of the best Zero Escape characters.
 
Would any of you like to see a Zero Escape 4 or is it better to wrap the series up?

Junpei and Akane still need to find the extremist so there's that plot thread left hanging but I'm not sure there's much else to go on. Theoretically you could follow an entirely new plot (similar to Danganronpa 3) but I imagine that wouldn't make too many people happy.

I also have a theory that the reason there's no post-game notes for Sigma/Diana/Phi is because they're finally off being a happy family.
 
Last edited:
Hooked up my N64 a few weeks ago for the first time in over a decade. I've actually been pretty impressed with how well Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time have stood the test of time, even if they look a bit boxy. Playing Mario Party and Super Smash Bros. with my roomie was also quite fun. God damn does the N64 controller assault your hands, though. Mario Party is brutal for extended sessions, and even just playing Mario / Zelda for 2+ hours can start to wear on the thumb.

By far, the game that's been holding up the best is Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Calibur (and not just cuz it's easy on the hands~) The attention to detail in the 2D pixel art is fantastic (battles and cutscenes still look nice), and they're much slicker than the bulky polygons of all the early 3D games that dominated the system. The orchestral soundtrack is also pretty solid and does a good job of setting the tone / getting you pumped for battle.

pretty :3

The plot is really intricate, with a ton of characters that all have their own agendas. It deals heavily with the politics and mythology of Palatinus, a puppet state of the Holy Lodis Empire. With themes of revolution, idealism, classism, religion, imperialism, slavery, poverty... it actually gets pretty dark. You can pull up character bios and replay cutscenes if you ever need a refresher to keep up. The paths you take, decisions you make during the plot, and, most importantly, ways you go about capturing or liberating strongholds will affect how the world views you, in turn changing available areas, which characters will join your forces, and which of the multiple endings you'll get. That gives it a pretty nice replay value, and you can expect to sink about 35-50 hours into a playthrough.

it's the second mission and shit's real >.>

The real complexity is in the gameplay, though. It's an RTS / RPG hybrid. In each area, your battalion faces off with another, where the winning condition for both sides is taking the enemy base or killing the opposing leader. You're always taking the offensive here (though you might need to play D early on), with most towns (strongholds) under enemy control (and usually a neutral town or two somewhere). Your troops move along the field in real time, though you can pause the game to change commands, adjust formations, use items, etc. You don't have much direct control over battles (just changing general commands or retreating, and, later, a more specialized form of attack that can only be used rarely). Instead, unit formation dictates how often your characters attack, which enemies they can hit, what moves they'll use, and possible combos.

a pathetically weak warlock in "action"

Each unit has 5 (or less) characters arranged on a 3x3 grid. Classes like Knights and Beserkers fare better in the front row, while Clerics and Wizards are better off in the back. More powerful monsters like Dragons and Ogres limit formations and count as 2 characters in the unit. Unit formations can be exploited by attacking from behind or the sides, so you'll usually want to account for that as well. Killing the head of an enemy unit pretty much nullifies it, but units don't actually battle to the death; instead, characters attack however many times they can before a winner is declared based on overall damage dealt (with the loser being bounced backwards on the map). You'll always lose and get bounced back against the enemy boss unless you kill them, and they'll typically sit on their base gaining health as you make your way back for round 2. Later, you can build legions that arrange up to 5 units into different formations, though battles are still fought by the individual units (with some added assistance by weak soldiers that hold the legions together).

you can make a lot of units~

The RPG elements come from the characters that make up your battalion (of which there are a bunch). They gain experience for each battle, especially when an enemy character is killed, allowing them to level up and gain stat increases. They also grow chaotic or lawful in battle based on their opponents' alignment and the difference in levels (picking on lower-leveled units brings your alignment down [chaotic], while taking on stronger units brings it up [lawful]). Alignment and level affect which classes can be unlocked for each character, which in turn affect stat spreads (which can be further augmented by various items).

everyone's customizable ^.^

You'll want a range of alignments among your units, as overall unit alignment compared to town morale affects whether or not it's considered liberated or captured when you take it. Any captures, including any time enemies take your strongholds or either side takes neutral towns, will bring your popularity (an unseen stat) down, which affects available characters and endings. Liberating strongholds brings it up. So, while it's easy to plow through the game with just two units (alternating each campaign which one attacks and which one guards your base will quickly get both over-leveled), those units will both wind up super chaotic and you'll be pretty much guaranteed a bad ending due to all but the lowest morale strongholds being captured rather than liberated. You'll have to play slower, more careful games with more varied units if you want the better endings (there are 3 main ones possible based on your popularity, with additional scenes based on which characters you gained along the way.)

units moving along the field / a sweaty doll master. off-road terrain affects movement speed based on what's in your units

While that all adds a greater depth to the game, it's still not particularly difficult. I'd say it's a shame there's no multiplayer, but both sides being able to constantly pause an RTS would probably get old fast. Neither side being able to pause would put a greater emphasis on reflexes than strategy, which would just feel like a loss in its overall value (as it is, it's an RTS with TBS elements, which is a big part of the appeal to me.) That said, while the liberation system can still be gamed somewhat, it's actually easier to just take a more calculated, conservative approach to campaigns, which is cool (being more strategic is beneficial, yay!) Training outside of campaigns costs money, and trying to find wild monsters to level up against is a slow grind (though getting them to join your battalion is always cool). This helps balance things, as it's not as easy to put together a large, well-trained army, especially if you're saving up for better items.

I'm quickly remembering why this was my favorite game as a kid, and I'm glad to see there's an even greater mechanical depth behind-the-scenes (kinda like Pokemon). I'm guessing most peeps on this forum are fans of strategic RPGs, so I can say it's definitely worth checking out on the Wii Virtual Console (only $10 there). The N64 cartridges are pretty rare these days and kinda pricey, though :(
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I woke up today. Worked for 9 hours. Did not expect that when I got home there would be a new Metroid game AND a classic 2d one at that.

http://metroid2remake.blogspot.com/

This game is fucking wonderful. Possibly game of the year? Possibly best metroid game (which would make it one of the best games ever)? I dunno, but 30 minutes in it definitely has the potential.

In ten years no announcement from E3 or any similar event from the big gaming companies has made me this happy.
 

PK Gaming

Persona 5
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Started playing Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel, and jesus christ this game is hot.



I haven't had this much playing an RPG since Persona 4, and if you know me at all that is straight up one of the highest possible praises I can give towards a game.
 

Joim

Pixels matter
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Hello, guys! So, could anyone recommend me decision making games like LiS? I already have bought Wolf among us.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Wolf Among Us is really lackluster, though it's worth looking into the Fables comics. Really what you want are The Walking Dead seasons 1 and 2, Until Dawn, Indigo Prophecy, and Heavy Rain.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top