Gen VII: Pokémon Sun and Moon (New info Post #5834)

[PsychicAcademic]

Maybe Hyper Training is a way to mitigate some of the issues that may arise due to transferring? Nature and IVs are probably randomly generated. Maybe there's a way to influence nature via hyper training as well?

I don't think nature are touched at this point, but somehow I can see GF making that feature in the next generation, making one monster fully customisable apart of its species.

 

[Xen]

Maybe Hyper Training is a way to mitigate some of the issues that may arise due to transferring? Nature and IVs are probably randomly generated. Maybe there's a way to influence nature via hyper training as well?

It'll help mitigate some issues with transferring from RBY, yeah; even if IVs are set with a specific formula based off the DVs of the old Gen mons, there still won't be a whole lot of control available since RNG abuse and breeding isn't present in RBY (there are glitches that can be done to max DVs, but that's a different story for a different day).

I'm still patiently waiting for GSC to be released on the VC. The mechanics are the same as RBY, so bank compatibility will be easy enough to implement there, and I'd love to see all generations of Pokemon compatible with SuMo.

 

[QuickBH]

I don't think nature are touched at this point, but somehow I can see GF making that feature in the next generation, making one monster fully customisable apart of its species.

I'm seriously imagining some sort of disciplinary center where if your Pokemon has been acting very naughty you can start smacking it around until it learns to become timid.

Or if it's naive take it to school.

 

[Lady Vader]

Yeah, that was brought up in the Detective Pikachu thread.

They're gonna try to do it through Pokemon Bank. Though, the differences between gen 1 and gen 7 are pretty big (such as the lack of natures in gen 1, lack of genders, etc.) So idk how gen 1 pokemon are gonna translate into SM.

Genders will either be randomly generated (most likely) or be determined by DVs, like in Generation II (less likely).
Natures and Abilities, it will likely be randomly generated (likely no HA, but I wouldn't completely rule it out as it being a rare event), though I could see them doing something with DVs to determine it.
Thanks to the reveal of Hyper Training, I think that DVs will just be directly translated into IVs (with a max of 15).

 

[QuickBH]

Genders will either be randomly generated (most likely) or be determined by DVs, like in Generation II (less likely).
Natures and Abilities, it will likely be randomly generated (likely no HA, but I wouldn't completely rule it out as it being a rare event), though I could see them doing something with DVs to determine it.
Thanks to the reveal of Hyper Training, I think that DVs will just be directly translated into IVs (with a max of 15).

I honestly think that they revealed hyper training not for any other reason but because of complaints that the Pokemon they get from gen 1 will be bad. I mean, it is the Pokemon they've first started as kids yet, and this hyper training stuff fulfills that promise because really, how many of us are going to breed our gen 1 transfers?

 

[Norne]

I think shiny Pokémon will actually increase in value, since now it will be hard for them to be bad, making even mediocre mons with the right nature/ability relevant in the eyes of people who are obsessed with them.

 

[Oddish.]

Do you think EVs will also be randomly generated? I don't know too much about gen 1 EVs, other than they worked differently. Or maybe they'll become blank slates when you transfer them.

 

[locoghoul]

As covered already, it doesn't really alter the reality as far as anyone who cares is concerned. Unless something in Sun/Moon changes detection for that - and I don't see any way they could possibly do that - then there is no difference and one is easier than the other, the only thing holding you back being if hacking for Bottle Caps feels slightly easier on your conscience.

there is no conscience about this lol. Hacking a mon and cloning items are different things, "morals" aside. You want to justify genning stuff, go ahead. I'm not judging you

 

[Xen]

Do you think EVs will also be randomly generated? I don't know too much about gen 1 EVs, other than they worked differently. Or maybe they'll become blank slates when you transfer them.

Stat exp (the Gen I-II EVs) will most likely be wiped and reset upon transfer. But like with DVs, we won't know until SuMo come out and bank is updated.

 

[Quello93]

I feel like this has probably already been addressed, but for Bewears ability "Fluffy" i'snt there another ability exactly like it but isnt weak to fire?

 

[QuickBH]

Hacking bottle caps is a lot safer than individually Genning for VGC because you don't have to worry about screwing up things like Poke balls, level, location, changing ID shenanigans etc..

I don't expect seeing that dream ball Aegislash thing anytime soon.

 

[WachterDerNacht]

Genders will either be randomly generated (most likely) or be determined by DVs, like in Generation II (less likely).
Natures and Abilities, it will likely be randomly generated (likely no HA, but I wouldn't completely rule it out as it being a rare event), though I could see them doing something with DVs to determine it.
Thanks to the reveal of Hyper Training, I think that DVs will just be directly translated into IVs (with a max of 15).

The only thing that I can see deterring Gamefreak from randomising abilities between Generations is No Guard Machamp being able to learn Fissure. If you have Trick Room set up, faster Flying-Types (Vespiquen and Tropius are the only fully evolved Flying-Types slower than Machamp) and Levitators will be the only things that will be able to stop it, but Stone Edge will take care of the former and Machamp can either Dynamically Punch or hit a Levitator with coverage. Talonflame and Sableye will both be able to beat it as long as neither switch into an attack, but other than that, there isn't much else you can do. Of course, none of this matters in the Metagame because of OHKO clause, but for In-Game, this is pretty big.

If Gamefreak is going to be smart about this, then they'll force a certain ability on Pokemon. This honestly wouldn't be so bad because all things considered, there isn't a whole lot of bad abilities in the Gen 1 Pokedex. There are a lot of useless ones, but I would personally argue that a lot of the Pokemon who get such abilities like Keen Eye or Run Away are useless anyways, so no real loss there. In terms of Machamp, Guts is still perfectly viable, so unlike Clefable who'll get screwed over with Cute Charm (rather than Magic Guard), Machamp will be set no matter what route Gamefreak decides to go.

I feel like this has probably already been addressed, but for Bewears ability "Fluffy" i'snt there another ability exactly like it but isnt weak to fire?

You are thinking about Fur Coat, but there is a difference between the two (from what we can tell):

Fur Coat: Halves the damage of ALL physical attacks.
Fluffy: Halves the damage of CONTACT attacks. This includes Grass Knot (even though it's Special, it makes contact), but doesn't include Earthquake (a physical attack that doesn't make contact).

 

[Xen]

If Gamefreak is going to be smart about this, then they'll force a certain ability on Pokemon. This honestly wouldn't be so bad because all things considered, there isn't a whole lot of bad abilities in the Gen 1 Pokedex. There are a lot of useless ones, but I would personally argue that a lot of the Pokemon who get such abilities like Keen Eye or Run Away are useless anyways, so no real loss there. In terms of Machamp, Guts is still perfectly viable, so unlike Clefable who'll get screwed over with Cute Charm (rather than Magic Guard), Machamp will be set no matter what route Gamefreak decides to go.

Ability capsule says hi.

 

[QuickBH]

Fissure Machamp won't be anything more than a gimmick. Machamp himself is a slow mon who can at best take two hits so he can't switch in much. At best a defensive spread can net you a kill but it's not like he will have many answers then.

I don't see anything more than a neat gimmick that I'll use when I feel like trolling. Nothing broken.

 

[Lady Vader]

The only thing that I can see deterring Gamefreak from randomising abilities between Generations is No Guard Machamp being able to learn Fissure. If you have Trick Room set up, faster Flying-Types (Vespiquen and Tropius are the only fully evolved Flying-Types slower than Machamp) and Levitators will be the only things that will be able to stop it, but Stone Edge will take care of the former and Machamp can either Dynamically Punch or hit a Levitator with coverage. Talonflame and Sableye will both be able to beat it as long as neither switch into an attack, but other than that, there isn't much else you can do. Of course, none of this matters in the Metagame because of OHKO clause, but for In-Game, this is pretty big.

If Gamefreak is going to be smart about this, then they'll force a certain ability on Pokemon. This honestly wouldn't be so bad because all things considered, there isn't a whole lot of bad abilities in the Gen 1 Pokedex. There are a lot of useless ones, but I would personally argue that a lot of the Pokemon who get such abilities like Keen Eye or Run Away are useless anyways, so no real loss there. In terms of Machamp, Guts is still perfectly viable, so unlike Clefable who'll get screwed over with Cute Charm (rather than Magic Guard), Machamp will be set no matter what route Gamefreak decides to go.




You are thinking about Fur Coat, but there is a difference between the two (from what we can tell):

Fur Coat: Halves the damage of ALL physical attacks.
Fluffy: Halves the damage of CONTACT attacks. This includes Grass Knot (even though it's Special, it makes contact), but doesn't include Earthquake (a physical attack that doesn't make contact).

With the reveal of the plus along side the custom competition feature only allowing two choices (All or Sun and Moon obtained only), VGC rules (the only ruleset GF cares about) will likely not allow for Pokémon from Red, Blue, Green, or Yellow from competing. This would mean that Fissure Machamp wouldn't be allowed anyway. Plus with items like Ability Capsule, they couldn't lock it without giving it Machamp's HA, which would likely mean ALL Generation I 'mons would get their HAs this way (very rarely is something exclusive like this).
Also, Pokémon with Sturdy would be completely immune to Fissure, and VGC (again, the only format they care about) is filled with Pokémon with Levitate and Flying-types (VGC '15 had Rotom, Landorus, Thundurus, Mega Salamence, etc.). Could it be a threat? Yes, but not unbeatable. Especially since it would likely take out one 'mon, only to be killed by the other.
Finally, sometimes, GF doesn't seem to care about balance. They did make the Primals and Mega Rayquaza, after all.

With Fur Coat vs. Fluffy, again, I mus bring up the fact that people thought that Fur Coat only worked on contact moves when X and Y came out and there are currently conflicting wording among the various official statements in the various languages.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Which languages conflict with the current [English] theory? I skimmed through Bewear's page on the site in a handful of random languages, and every translation that I found seemed to mention "direct attack" or "contact". Was there one that didn't mention contact?

 

[Lady Vader]

Which languages conflict with the current [English] theory? I skimmed through Bewear's page on the site in a handful of random languages, and every translation that I found seemed to mention "direct attack" or "contact". Was there one that didn't mention contact?

Someone said it earlier in the thread, but I can't remember.

 

[Antihaxxer]

In French for Fluffy (Boule de Poils in French) :
"Certains Chelours disposent d’un tout nouveau talent : Boule de Poils. Il permet de diviser par deux les dégâts qui leur sont infligés par des attaques directes. Par contre, ceux-ci sont doublés s’ils subissent une capacité de type Feu."
Chelours = Bewear (Pun between Ours for Bear and Chelou which means in urban language Strange, it's VERY funny in French :))
and It mentions direct attacks.

For Fur Coat (Toison Epaisse in French)
"Toison Épaisse : Les dégats des attaques physiques sont réduits de moitié."
No direct attacks, just halves the physical attack

 

[Kurona]

there is no conscience about this lol. Hacking a mon and cloning items are different things

Perhaps, but given the context; the results are the same.

 

[Project_Mars]

Perhaps, but given the context; the results are the same.

Yeah, but one is less likely to show up in hack checks and can be considered "safe" for that reason.

 

[Kurona]

Yeah, but one is less likely to show up in hack checks and can be considered "safe" for that reason.

Hack checks allowed the illegal combination of Aegislash + Dream Ball to go through. They're really not that good; they just check if you have something that is impossible to get in the game or not.

 

[Nelson Tangela]

Hack checks allowed the illegal combination of Aegislash + Dream Ball to go through. They're really not that good; they just check if you have something that is impossible to get in the game or not.

Like Dream Ball Aegislash? lol

Official hack checks are terrible at recognizing hacks.

 

[Kurona]

Like Dream Ball Aegislash? lol

Official hack checks are terrible at recognizing hacks.

I said they check, not that they're good at it :p

 

[Bram316]

Wait a second... I think the presence of Hyper Training has a secondary implication as well:

Most of the previous generations have content for Pokémon up to level 70-80 or thereabout. For in-game purposes, there are very, very few reasons to train a Pokémon all the way to level 100 (those very, very few reasons being that some legendaries have level-up moves at level 100). In-game opponents therefore cap out at level 60-65, maybe a few daily trainers have 'mons at levels above 70, and some very, very powerful challenge trainers cross the 80 mark. With no reason to level up something to level 100, there's no efficient way to do it either. You may go to '100 if you want, but the road is long and there's little to gather at its end.

With Hyper Training, though, the games give an explicit reason for you to level up a Pokémon that far. It encourages trainers to walk the distance, and therefore it might provide a convenient way to do so as well. True, it's been a while since the games became an epic grind-fest from level 60 onwards or so (GSC and RSE, anyone?), but even in XY it takes a while to get to level 100. SuMo might raise the level bar again to avoid excessive grinding. Perhaps Game Freak even caves and gives us in-game opponents with 'mons at level 100, or at least above the 90 mark. I definitely wouldn't mind battles which give my top trained 'mons a bit of a challenge.

Another thing is the definite admission to everybody that IVs do exist, that some IVs combinations are plainly better than others, and that you're ideally looking for 31 across the board as a rule of thumb (Trick Room and such nonwithstanding). They have had fixed-IV giveaways of Pokémons in generations past already (the Ralts traded to you from Diantha in XY, for instance), so there's a possibility they'll just peg some giveaways 'mons and legendaries to 6x31 IVs already. Hyper Training is a measure to combat excessive grinding, re-setting and hours of discarding Pokémon in the hunt for something optimal. Might as well make the new shortcut as short as possible.

Lastly, if my Bottle Caps theory is correct - that there are different kinds of Bottle Caps with different degrees of usefulness - we might look forward to find a lot more stuff in trash cans, which I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person obsessively checking every time I find a new one. Even if it's nothing more than the Hyper Training equivalent of a Clever Wing, I'd be glad to see anything else than "the trash can is empty" in 95 % of all cases.

Regarding the levels of ingame opponents: I think (and sincerely hope) you are on the right track.
When we saw Tapu Koko in the english reveal trailer, it was Lv.60. Just for reference, in the newest trailer Wimpod was Lv.25 and Mudsdale was Lv.50. That begs the question: Why was Tapu Koko 60? Easy: Because it's the same level we encounter it ingame!
'But why is this such a big deal' you ask? Good question!
Most post-game legendaries are Lv.70 if my memory serves me right. So we may speculate that the story expands regarding to levels.
Hype?

 

[aybekay]

Is that really a big thing when a VGC Player has used an illegal Pokeball but the Pokemon was legal. I really do not understand why people get so furious about those minor things which do not give an impact to a battle. And also I blame Youtuber Verlisfy for making up so much drama about hacking Pokemon in VGC and generally talking trash about that topic of cheating. If a Player's conscious allows him or her to use hacked stuff than it is fine.