Overwatch - Brigitte used FLAIL!

Joim

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Just to play devil's advocate why don't you switch then?
I am already support or tank. Or Mei in Mei Maps, which is more importante than your average gold Genji Who won't switchon Winston, Mei, and McCree.

DPSs refusing to switch, either to other roles or to another dps not being hard countered are basically every game at low 2000s. I'd say it's impossible to soloq out of there unless you are at least a high diamond dps.
 

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
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I am already support or tank. Or Mei in Mei Maps, which is more importante than your average gold Genji Who won't switchon Winston, Mei, and McCree.

DPSs refusing to switch, either to other roles or to another dps not being hard countered are basically every game at low 2000s. I'd say it's impossible to soloq out of there unless you are at least a high diamond dps.
Wouldn't it help your team more to run a big support (or even DPS with zen) then stick to your character? If your DPS isn't doing the job then don't you switch to that? Might not get you the win but sometimes you need to carry
 
I think it's easier to carry with D.Va / Roadhog / Zarya than it is to carry with DPS :P You still do a lot of damage but you don't have to aim as much lol. If you really want to be a DPS "main" please make in Soldier and not your garbage McCree (yes it's bad), I've never not wanted a Soldier on my team.

Also I am of the belief that a support CAN carry, if you're doing your job right you can assist bad-ish DPS players to do well. Like yes DPS heros are more likely to annoy me outright but that's because they're right in your face, the DPS might be annoying me so much because of Harmony Orb or Speed Boost or Damage Buff (or w/e). Also support ults are 10x more gamechanging than DPS, if you don't have them and the enemy does you will almost definitely lose the teamfight. Sometimes the skill gap is just too large to carry as support but in that case you probably would've lost with a DPS hero regardless.

One thing I want to say is please, please don't compromise a good team comp for no reason, at least tell your team what you're doing on the mic, I fucking hate when we have 2/2/2 and one of the support / tanks goes DPS and doesn't provide a reason why (especially when it's shit like Hanzo or Junkrat #Triggered) :P
 

Joim

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Let's see. I've played 334 competitive games this season, having 138 as support (41.3%), 89 games as tank (26.65%), 62 games as defense that is mainly Mei (18.56%), and 44 games as dps (13.17%).
It's impossible to carry. This is a heavy team game in which if someone underperforms, the whole team losses. That'cer s a fact, it's how the game is designed.

Examples of the last few days of people who refused to change:
-Bastion against Genji, Zenyatta.
-The pharah mentioned before.
-Junkrat feeding Zarya and healer ults since not confirming kills.
-Genji/Tracer combo against Roadhog/Winston in koth. (Here I was healing but changed to Reaper. Team's killfeed was me killing everyone, but we lost anyway).
-Roadhog/Zarya combo in 2cp defense.
-Tracer against Mei, Torbjörn, McCree.
-Genji against Winston, Mei, McCree.
-Roadhog against Reaper, Zarya.

So how the hell do you carry those when the game is basically 5v6?
 

sandshrewz

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I think it's easier to carry with D.Va / Roadhog / Zarya than it is to carry with DPS :P You still do a lot of damage but you don't have to aim as much lol. If you really want to be a DPS "main" please make in Soldier and not your garbage McCree (yes it's bad), I've never not wanted a Soldier on my team.

Also I am of the belief that a support CAN carry, if you're doing your job right you can assist bad-ish DPS players to do well. Like yes DPS heros are more likely to annoy me outright but that's because they're right in your face, the DPS might be annoying me so much because of Harmony Orb or Speed Boost or Damage Buff (or w/e). Also support ults are 10x more gamechanging than DPS, if you don't have them and the enemy does you will almost definitely lose the teamfight. Sometimes the skill gap is just too large to carry as support but in that case you probably would've lost with a DPS hero regardless.

One thing I want to say is please, please don't compromise a good team comp for no reason, at least tell your team what you're doing on the mic, I fucking hate when we have 2/2/2 and one of the support / tanks goes DPS and doesn't provide a reason why (especially when it's shit like Hanzo or Junkrat #Triggered) :P
Hmmmmm D.Va works if the enemy cannot punish a huge target flying into their face and then walking at like 2-3m/s. Roadhog is basically a body shot sniper that shoots buses rather than a proper tank tbh. Zarya as mentioned is a DPS-Tank hybrid. Also eh, McCree >>> Soldier76 unless you can't aim reliably with McCree. Generally if your aim is suffice enough, you'll do more damage and get more kills as McCree than S76. S76 only has rockets for burst damage. Poking damage with S76 isn't really good since it doesn't punish people for peeking corners/walls etc. You can get way more damage over a smaller time frame as McCree than S76, since S76 requires time to deal the same amount of damage, whereas McCree just needs to land shots whenever they aren't behind cover. So yea, if you can aim well just play McCree unless you badly require the sustain of S76 or your team is dying without heals. The reason why McCree seems to be bad is more likely due to the fact that more people aren't that good at aiming and perform better with S76 rather than S76 being better.

Supports can carry so much to a certain extend. Supports are basically limited to how good their team is rather than how good the support is most of the time. I sure as heck can outheal, outlive, out ult the enemy support, but that hardly ever means we'll win just because I played the better game as support. It doesn't matter if the support basically never dies and have a high heal output if the team doesn't have the required damage to play on the support's strength. If DPS aren't carrying their weight, no amount of support can help with that. It'd be better to play a DPS or hybrid in this case rather than pure support so that you can sustain the DPS. Like using Zen to just pocket whoever and basically play Zen as a DPS rather than a proper support. Just do all the dirty work yourself haha. I've had enough times of using Transcendence to block Death Blossom etc (when my party members weren't around), then they simply just let the Reaper run away for free instead of killing him during Transcendence like really ??? lol. After that I just wouldn't bother wasting Transcendence to save them anymore and just use them as bait for enemy ults while I just stay away and kill the ulting player instead, basically throwing away the purpose of the support ult and playing as a DPS myself and playing as a support for my party members. Not sure if that makes any sense haha.

Basically carrying as a Zarya/Zen is more like carrying as a DPS itself. Their tank/support aspects are just a bonus. Basically, if the team is under performing so much, there's no chance of carrying that game as a pure support / tank. The only way to carry that is to play as a DPS or a DPS hybrid. Support ults can be game changing but it's only as game changing as the players themselves who are receiving the support ult, as with the Trans to block Death Blossom example. There's no point in support ults if they can't do anything with it despite support ults being timed and positioned perfectly. So yes, carrying as DPS is always more likely than carrying as support no matter what.

Also, it's common misunderstanding that 2/2/2 is the best composition. It isn't the case, and you should be playing whatever composition fits the game and the skill level itself. There needs to be a conscious understanding whether damage is more important, or healing in this specific game. 1/4/1, 2/3/1, etc are all perfectly viable and it all depends on the particular scenario. 2/2/2 isn't a fit all thing in that it has good balance and isn't risky, but that doesn't make it optimal in all cases. You have to see for yourself which is the best composition specific to the game itself. But yea, people switching for seemingly no reason are indeed detrimental.

Strictly speaking, yes supports can carry. But the effectiveness of using pure supports to carry is significantly lesser. If you're looking to carry, play DPS or DPS hybrids. This is basically why you don't go Mercy / Reinhardt to carry a team. If you can carry as a Reinhardt you could probably have carried as any other hero anyways. However, the same cannot be said if you switch from a DPS to pure support/tank.

And hybrids are awesome woooo!
 

Joim

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I remember winning a comp game with Zen with 5 medals and potm. But yeah you can't always play perfectly and sometimes you can't just avoid being flanked.
 
Also, it's common misunderstanding that 2/2/2 is the best composition. It isn't the case, and you should be playing whatever composition fits the game and the skill level itself. There needs to be a conscious understanding whether damage is more important, or healing in this specific game. 1/4/1, 2/3/1, etc are all perfectly viable and it all depends on the particular scenario. 2/2/2 isn't a fit all thing in that it has good balance and isn't risky, but that doesn't make it optimal in all cases. You have to see for yourself which is the best composition specific to the game itself. But yea, people switching for seemingly no reason are indeed detrimental.

Strictly speaking, yes supports can carry. But the effectiveness of using pure supports to carry is significantly lesser. If you're looking to carry, play DPS or DPS hybrids. This is basically why you don't go Mercy / Reinhardt to carry a team. If you can carry as a Reinhardt you could probably have carried as any other hero anyways. However, the same cannot be said if you switch from a DPS to pure support/tank.

And hybrids are awesome woooo!
yep you don't carry as rein unless you have a pocket ana lol. ZARYA AND ZEN ARE YR SOLOQ HEROES cannot +1 this post more.

gonna get a bit nitty on the comp tho, id say in the average uncoordinated situation with heroes balanced as they are rn 2/2/2 is ideal even if it isn't optimal cuz its very easily run, but if one of the supports isn't zen or ana (with a good nano boost target) you should never feel bad about going dps, especially on attack. id say i like 2/3/1 more in yoloq (cuz lets face it your dps are the same elo as you) and that's what you're likely to end up with. and switch as needed when you see the team comp. some maps on different sides this is not true of course but unless you're running a big stack team comp isn't an easy thing to exert control over and 2/2/2 or 2/3/1 very very flexible. tbh i think 2/3/1 is underrated a lot and causes excessive tilt from ppl who think comp meta applies to uncoordinated situations.

face it ow players of the world, hanzo and mei are very functional on some maps right now if youre good at them, as long as the comp is glued together. and sym is quite a decent pick on e.g. hanamura A.

all those situations joim mentioned are pretty ick, altho you should be erasing that torbjorn from the face of the earth (but tracer is loluseless there). the one id say is forgivable and carriable is zarya/roadhog (even if a rein or even a winston would've been superior to the roadhog), even tho im probably more of a roadhog disliker than 99% of people. that junkrat shows up in all games in low 2000s so he is also carriable even though he is a goddamn nuisance, most junkrats won't confirm their kills but you can abuse their area denial if you make a point of confirming their kills for them with something mobile or just making it your mission to destroy their healers at all costs. a lot of ppl don't know how to switch when they're getting countered.

oh and tbh the bastion is prolly also carriable insofar as bastion works in low 2000s (which is, uh, ok but not ideal), cuz many low 2000s zens/genjis dont know how to kill bastions LOL, or their teams ignore their zens and dont help out! but uh please dont instalock bastion in comp frands as professor oak will tell you theres a time and a place for everything. i mean ofc if he was feeding the genji/zen and not responding to basic stimuli by pressing 'H' to change hero, pls ignore me.
 
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sandshrewz

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Btw, I hope our posts here don't come off as cliquey or whatever haha.

Also I'm liking the Zylbrad / Muselk videos haha. And lol yes Zylbrad bringing in rocket jump Bastion in upper 2000s. Though to be fair like half of them should be 3000+ so they're actually free to do whatever they want haha. Their videos are too funny lmao.

Andddd screw ddosing ISPs >:| get a life these people shesh lol.
 

HailFall

my cancer is sun and my leo is moon
oh cool theres a thread for this.
definitely agree with the notion that support can only function as well as the team theyre on. ive found mercy to be particularly atrocious in soloq comp just because shes so reliant on her team to be both dealing consistent dmg and protecting her to actually function. despite me maining her i only have a 29% win rate with her in comp which is pretty pathetic. the random hanzo or junkrat spamming "i need healing" right after you get jumped without any teammates helping you is pretty frustrating too. i started maining zen alongside her just because hes so much more effective alongside teams with bad dps players since he can discord shit and actually pose an offensive threat.
 
oh cool theres a thread for this.
definitely agree with the notion that support can only function as well as the team theyre on. ive found mercy to be particularly atrocious in soloq comp just because shes so reliant on her team to be both dealing consistent dmg and protecting her to actually function. despite me maining her i only have a 29% win rate with her in comp which is pretty pathetic. the random hanzo or junkrat spamming "i need healing" right after you get jumped without any teammates helping you is pretty frustrating too. i started maining zen alongside her just because hes so much more effective alongside teams with bad dps players since he can discord shit and actually pose an offensive threat.
Welcome! Nice Mercy avatar. :D

Yeah, Mercy struggles in a lot of situations in soloq. Not exactly a Mercy meta rn either, altho she's def very viable, especially on def. For all the reasons you listed, plus pretty much everything that's strong right now can abuse her positioning like nobody's business and you have to play very cautiously if you don't want to be left stranded by your teammates. Lúcio/Zen are great soloq sups and function in p much every situation and Ana is pretty self-sufficient if you like sitting in the back. Nice to see you're enjoying Zen though, it's nice after playing relatively passive to be the one dishing out the damage. Personally I like playing Mercy but I usually won't do it without an off-healer unless our team is hella beefy, otherwise it's pick one: a) healing b) my staying alive while I have resurrect, cuz I can't stand having to sit back as her ._.
 
I generally disagree with a lot of what you guys are saying but I'm too outnumbered to argue haha :P

Roadhog and Zarya have great damage which is why they're such good tanks, but D.va is similar in that she trades damage for insane survivability most games. Also the number of people who get hit by D.va ult is too funny, just wait for the Zarya to burn shields / Rein to die and it's at least a kill (if not more) on capture point / hybrid maps. Also if you have a good McCree who can aim then by all means use him, but if you're platinum or lower you probably don't (be honest with yourself lol). I'd much rather have decent healing + helix rocket + mobility hero + decent long range damage than a character with no healing / no rocket / very limited mobility that doesn't do damage because they can't aim well, that's just asking to get picked off early in a teamfight :P

I've also never encountered DPS (as in viable DPS, not like Torb lol) who are so bad that they won't do things like kill an ulting Reaper when I use Transcendence, if you've had to play with that I'm so sorry lol but generally even bad DPS can get stuff like that done. But if you do have those teammates I totally understand how Zarya / Zen come in handy in those situations, and even if the team's DPS players are ok / good, Zarya / Zen are still great heros so it's not a bad thing if you use them or anything haha.

I'm not necessarily straying from 2/2/2 is BAD, but just please let me know why you're doing so. As a support I hate getting a random 3rd DPS for no reason like ???. But if you're going McCree because our DPS is Junkrat / Tracer and they can't kill an enemy Pharah and you tell me your reasoning then I 100% understand, you know?

Rant about why I think you can carry with support:

My main thing about supports carrying is it's so much easier to do than with DPS. Support carrying is really just good positioning (HIGH GROUND), saving your ults for teamfights, and knowing how to prioritize heals. With DPS you actually have to aim lol which a lot of Platinum and lower players honestly cannot do (hell I know I can't very well lol). Seriously the number of DPS players who are choosing McCree / Hanzo and not hitting their target consistently enough, the number of Genji's / Tracer's who are just barely getting 1v1'd by Zen, etc is very high. And we all like to pretend that these players aren't us because one game we got 5 gold medals with Soldier but be honest with yourself, is this really not you? Because so many "how 2 carry in ranked" guides and just general posts on Reddit and other places go under the assumption that that the players who are reading those posts can actually aim competently with a DPS character and that's not the case in a lot of situations. Which I think in turn inflates a person's ego ("I took the time to read a post that assumes I can play DPS so I must be able to!!1!") and makes them more likely to pick a DPS character when they can't actually aim lol. And even if they can aim that still doesn't mean they can correctly manage a DPS hero's abilities (Reaper's Wrath Form, Tracer's Rewind, Genji's Dash) and therefore can end up feeding even with good aim. And then these same players with inflated egos get pissed when their team loses and blame their team even though they had just as much to do with the loss as everyone else (usually even more if they're compromising a good team comp for "lol I need 2 carry with DPS xDDDDD").

Now you may be saying "Well if have a game where my DPS sucks doesn't that mean a support isn't going to help them and we're still going to lose"? A lot of people in this thread have been saying yes but I'm going to say no. I mean if your team is REALLY bad (such as not killing Reaper during Trans bad) then yes, or if the enemy team is just better / more coordinated then yes, but in a lot of situations I feel a support can actually turn a shitty DPS into a decent DPS. Combine this with a good team comp (I love 2/2/2 because you get two support ults and two fat heros who can usually do good damage) and the fact that you understand good positioning (or at least should, it's very simple to understand) and you can usually win teamfights. Like the ass Genji who is just barely dying to Zen won't if he has Harmony Orb, and the McCree who's getting healed / damage buffed by Mercy can actually accomplish something in a team fight if you allow them to survive teamfights. Compare that to a team who is 6 players who think they need to carry with DPS and end up with only one (usually angry) support you'll usually win those games. Combine that with how powerful support ults are and I think supports are very easy to play and potentially carry with.

At the end of the day if you can play a competent DPS then it can help your team, moreso than supports yes, but if you're not honest with yourself, or are unable to truly gauge your skill, then there's a good chance you'll be doing more harm then good for your team by picking a DPS hero (assuming you're compromising a good team comp to do so; if you already have two tanks / two supports than by all means go DPS). For comparison as someone who made the climb from Gold to Diamond, my Rein and Mercy win rates are at ~70% / ~60%, respectively, while my Lucio winrate (who I've played by far the most) is above 50%. But I don't think I've ever won I game where I've chosen a DPS hero. Maybe that's just a "me" thing but the idea that Mercy is just horrible in comp is absurd to me, if you focus on positioning, know who to prioritize heals to, and camp with ult, you can do very well and often times win (especially on Defense).

Also jumpluff I actually love a well-played Mei / Symmetra on their correct maps, but I don't think I've ever had or played against a Hanzo who would have been better as someone else :P He just demands too much skill IMO, and I never want a Hanzo main on my team ever (even if they can, in theory, do well). As for 2/3/1, it can work but in that scenario the team actually has to actively protect the healer or the healer needs to be very good with their escape options, otherwise you lose support ult too early and are very likely to lose the game. That's why dual support with Zen works very well because then you have two powerful support ults and a Zen can prioritize someone like Winston / Genji with Discord in order to help the other support survive (assuming you're playing back line Zen, which you should, don't tunnel vision damage you guys, you are labeled a support for a reason !_!)
 

sandshrewz

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I generally disagree with a lot of what you guys are saying but I'm too outnumbered to argue haha :P

Roadhog and Zarya have great damage which is why they're such good tanks, but D.va is similar in that she trades damage for insane survivability most games. Also the number of people who get hit by D.va ult is too funny, just wait for the Zarya to burn shields / Rein to die and it's at least a kill (if not more) on capture point / hybrid maps. Also if you have a good McCree who can aim then by all means use him, but if you're platinum or lower you probably don't (be honest with yourself lol). I'd much rather have decent healing + helix rocket + mobility hero + decent long range damage than a character with no healing / no rocket / very limited mobility that doesn't do damage because they can't aim well, that's just asking to get picked off early in a teamfight :P

I've also never encountered DPS (as in viable DPS, not like Torb lol) who are so bad that they won't do things like kill an ulting Reaper when I use Transcendence, if you've had to play with that I'm so sorry lol but generally even bad DPS can get stuff like that done. But if you do have those teammates I totally understand how Zarya / Zen come in handy in those situations, and even if the team's DPS players are ok / good, Zarya / Zen are still great heros so it's not a bad thing if you use them or anything haha.

I'm not necessarily straying from 2/2/2 is BAD, but just please let me know why you're doing so. As a support I hate getting a random 3rd DPS for no reason like ???. But if you're going McCree because our DPS is Junkrat / Tracer and they can't kill an enemy Pharah and you tell me your reasoning then I 100% understand, you know?

Rant about why I think you can carry with support:

My main thing about supports carrying is it's so much easier to do than with DPS. Support carrying is really just good positioning (HIGH GROUND), saving your ults for teamfights, and knowing how to prioritize heals. With DPS you actually have to aim lol which a lot of Platinum and lower players honestly cannot do (hell I know I can't very well lol). Seriously the number of DPS players who are choosing McCree / Hanzo and not hitting their target consistently enough, the number of Genji's / Tracer's who are just barely getting 1v1'd by Zen, etc is very high. And we all like to pretend that these players aren't us because one game we got 5 gold medals with Soldier but be honest with yourself, is this really not you? Because so many "how 2 carry in ranked" guides and just general posts on Reddit and other places go under the assumption that that the players who are reading those posts can actually aim competently with a DPS character and that's not the case in a lot of situations. Which I think in turn inflates a person's ego ("I took the time to read a post that assumes I can play DPS so I must be able to!!1!") and makes them more likely to pick a DPS character when they can't actually aim lol. And even if they can aim that still doesn't mean they can correctly manage a DPS hero's abilities (Reaper's Wrath Form, Tracer's Rewind, Genji's Dash) and therefore can end up feeding even with good aim. And then these same players with inflated egos get pissed when their team loses and blame their team even though they had just as much to do with the loss as everyone else (usually even more if they're compromising a good team comp for "lol I need 2 carry with DPS xDDDDD").

Now you may be saying "Well if have a game where my DPS sucks doesn't that mean a support isn't going to help them and we're still going to lose"? A lot of people in this thread have been saying yes but I'm going to say no. I mean if your team is REALLY bad (such as not killing Reaper during Trans bad) then yes, or if the enemy team is just better / more coordinated then yes, but in a lot of situations I feel a support can actually turn a shitty DPS into a decent DPS. Combine this with a good team comp (I love 2/2/2 because you get two support ults and two fat heros who can usually do good damage) and the fact that you understand good positioning (or at least should, it's very simple to understand) and you can usually win teamfights. Like the ass Genji who is just barely dying to Zen won't if he has Harmony Orb, and the McCree who's getting healed / damage buffed by Mercy can actually accomplish something in a team fight if you allow them to survive teamfights. Compare that to a team who is 6 players who think they need to carry with DPS and end up with only one (usually angry) support you'll usually win those games. Combine that with how powerful support ults are and I think supports are very easy to play and potentially carry with.

At the end of the day if you can play a competent DPS then it can help your team, moreso than supports yes, but if you're not honest with yourself, or are unable to truly gauge your skill, then there's a good chance you'll be doing more harm then good for your team by picking a DPS hero (assuming you're compromising a good team comp to do so; if you already have two tanks / two supports than by all means go DPS). For comparison as someone who made the climb from Gold to Diamond, my Rein and Mercy win rates are at ~70% / ~60%, respectively, while my Lucio winrate (who I've played by far the most) is above 50%. But I don't think I've ever won I game where I've chosen a DPS hero. Maybe that's just a "me" thing but the idea that Mercy is just horrible in comp is absurd to me, if you focus on positioning, know who to prioritize heals to, and camp with ult, you can do very well and often times win (especially on Defense).

Also jumpluff I actually love a well-played Mei / Symmetra on their correct maps, but I don't think I've ever had or played against a Hanzo who would have been better as someone else :P He just demands too much skill IMO, and I never want a Hanzo main on my team ever (even if they can, in theory, do well). As for 2/3/1, it can work but in that scenario the team actually has to actively protect the healer or the healer needs to be very good with their escape options, otherwise you lose support ult too early and are very likely to lose the game. That's why dual support with Zen works very well because then you have two powerful support ults and a Zen can prioritize someone like Winston / Genji with Discord in order to help the other support survive (assuming you're playing back line Zen, which you should, don't tunnel vision damage you guys, you are labeled a support for a reason !_!)
I wouldn't say Zarya/Roadhog are good tanks because they do a lot of damage haha. Reinhardt is basically the most consistent 'main tank' in the game. I should have brought up the topic of the definition of roles first though. Basically don't follow the in-game classifications since they're just super rough guidelines, and are more likely determined by their kits rather than how effective they are at whichever role. Zarya is basically a DPS-Tank, no doubt on that. I personally, and some people do agree on that Roadhog isn't a proper tank. All he has is the HP of a tank and that's about it. He doesn't block damage or provide the pushing power for his teammates. He doesn't enable his team like what a traditional tank eg Reinhardt does. All he does is punish people for being in his sightline. Basically a bodyshot sniper in my eyes lolllll. But yea all these are incredibly subjective and depends on your point of view.

I do agree that Plat and below, S76 is probably more effective due to lower accuracy requirement, and better self sustain. Which brings me to the point, the meta is different at different ranks of play. Which is also why I brought up 2/2/2 isn't the be all end all composition, but it's still more or less very reliable when in doubt. Oh and not to worry, Death Blossom Reapers aren't the only things players fail to kill haha. It's actually the problem of many players tunnel visioning and ignoring a lot of things that are happening or otherwise oblivious. An ulting Reaper is a free kill if you're protected by Transcendence. But players might not see it that way. They might just ignore him and go like hey that Mercy pick is more important even though she's like 30m away and unlikely to be killed at this moment. They don't comprehend how free kills are as important if not more so than an unreliable Mercy pick. Or you know they just had no idea the Reaper was ulting behind them for some reason simply because they didn't die to it >_> It happens haha.

As a support main myself, I have no qualms if I'm the solo healer as long as I see that the composition has sufficient sustain and what not. It may or may not be ideal to solo heal in certain cases, but I can make do with that. Most of the time I do expect to solo heal anyways, and occasionally actually prefer that to be the case so that I can build ult faster as long as people aren't taking too much damage. If people adamantly want to run 3 DPS, go ahead. Just keep in mind the heal priority and that you have to purposefully prioritize some players over others to maximize chances of winning. There are also things like 'bad healing' like extending to heal a teammate that are definitely going to die. All that does is probably feed more ults. If they aren't comfortable with healing, then it might actually be better for them to just go DPS if that's what they're more confident with, even though it may hurt the composition a little. The 'ideal' composition isn't just based on the meta. It's also based on the strengths and weaknesses of your team and the enemies' team.

Re: support carrying. I think I posted on reddit or something before about playing supports vs playing dps, though I'm not too sure if that's what you mean. The requirements of playing supports to their maximum potential is basically everything from a DPS minus aim and plus other things like heal priority etc. Everything needs good positioning and ult management etc. Supports don't have it any easier due to lower aim requirement when there will definitely be flankers to worry about, people solo ulting supports. All these are more prominent problems that supports face, and have a much smaller window for error. It's to the point where counting cooldowns, while useful for all players, is more relevant as a support. Like does Winston have his jump, Roadhog hook, and so on, and you have to change your positioning accordingly all the time because a lot of skills will be used specifically to target supports. It isn't as punishing if you're playing like Mei and you have no idea whether Winston can jump you or not. And the most effective supports still have amazing aim, especially on like Zen/Ana. Well actually, aim requirement is a thing to be properly effective as Zen/Ana. You're pretty much expected to deal DPS as Zen to complement his subpar healing. You need a little bit of aim with Ana to land heals on more finicky teammates and some clutch saves. But if you want some self protection as Ana, learning how to noscope enemies is pretty important too. Though I personally still like punishing some poor attempts from flankers with like Mercy pistol if I don't feel threatened at all lol. Not exactly sure if that's what you're talking about so eh xd hahaaa

If people do want to carry/play on non-support despite bad aim, you can play less aim intensive heroes and basically focus on other aspects like positioning, cooldown management etc. Winston is really good to just repeatedly punish supports if they can't focus you for doing that. Just jump in the moment they're not protected and they're dead in like 5s barring self heal from Lucio/Ana or second healer. Reaper's not too bad if you can shred tanks by just being in their face though you'd lose out against the squishes who have smaller hitboxes. There's a few options yea. I personally don't see aim as being one of the more important factors to playing well in this game. Game sense is probably way more important and will help you even if you're playing DPS.

Yea the problem of overestimating oneself is real and is a huge trap. Also the medal system is very misleading and people can be like I have gold elim gold damage I must be good. The medal stats are pretty irrelevant at judging skill without the context of the game (which is also why blizz pls stop using stats to affect rank changes).

"Well if have a game where my DPS sucks doesn't that mean a support isn't going to help them and we're still going to lose". Well, you might be underestimating how much teammates can actually do to actively harm the effectiveness of supports. Feeding basically removes your ability to heal them, unless you're going for 'ult feeding heals' which you shouldn't be doing. Overextending, regardless of whether they feed or not, also affects how much healing they can receive. If they have issues with positioning and staying alive (not even with aim), they're going to severely limit your heal output and there's nothing you can do about that without putting yourself at unnecessary risks as a support. While Harmony Orb on Genji going deep is usually a good thing, it doesn't matter if the Genji doesn't know when he should initiate and blindly tries to fight against a McCree, Reinhardt, Zarya, all just to kill the protected Mercy. Your healing there won't be helping him survive anything. The matter of whether or not a player survives a fight isn't determined by how much healing they are receiving. It is determined by the player's decisions. A player with good positioning and engagement will most likely survive/win the fight with or without healing, though healing will provide an advantage. No one should be expecting to come up on top of a fight simply because they are getting heals unless they're running a pocket strategy like el presidente or Pharmercy. Most damage by any player will out damage any amount of healing unless you're Ana. Healing does help with some 2HKO benchmarks like not getting 140-70 headshot-bodyshot by McCree, but to be fair
it won't actually help because chip damage is everywhere and McCree isn't going to be the only thing shooting at you, so realistically you'll still get 2HKOed, and that's without bringing into things like damage amp and discord. Healing isn't a reliable 'enabler' in OW. If you're going to die, you're probably going to die with or without heals for the most part. This is probably a very touchy topic that most people would disagree with though. I'd say healing helps with the battle of attrition and farming of support ults. Players being actively healed can offer more poke damage, but it doesn't enable them to win fights. Players themselves have to make the conscious effort of making sure they can receive heals in between fights. This comes with game sense. And if players don't have sufficient game sense, basically healing isn't going to make a difference.

Support ults are only as powerful as the teammates that are affected by it. A 3 man Rez isn't necessarily better than the 1 man Rez you make for the most effective player on the team if they're the one carrying the weight of the team. You can Sound Barrier all 5 other teammates but realistically it depends on how many people on the team knows how to make good use of it for it to be effective. That's the strength of supports. You amplify strengths and mitigate weaknesses. You cannot play support effectively without keeping that in mind unless you're playing on an equal 6 stack. I personally wouldn't say the 2 support team would inherently have an advantage over a 1 support team. I'd rather have 1 good support and 1 good tank/dps carry than 2 good support. You really have to multiply whatever strength there is, and if it isn't sufficient, you're basically screwed for the most part unless the enemy support are really poor like a Lucio on near perma speed aura or Ana tunneling on enemies.

So yea, while people have to be careful not to overestimate themselves on DPS, if the team is really not pulling its weight and you're the support and feel like you can definitely do more as DPS then go ahead if you know what you're doing. Or play Zen who is also basically a DPS / Hybrid. Just gotta make do and be very selective about your healing lol.

I mostly played Mercy in S1, but half the time I really just decided to lower my heal output and screw it by going Zen solo heal even in KOTH and with the help of my party we basically turned the whole game around. And there were times I just went Ana to farm ults and then spam heals on party members and give them the boost to roll with. I wouldn't say that Mercy is bad for comp, but design wise, she's pretty bad for carrying due to her reliance on teammate performance regardless if you can protect yourself from all the Genji/Tracer etc. Heals can't compensate for game sense or the lack of, and that's basically the only thing Mercy can do besides Rez / occasional damage amp. IIRC Zen has the highest win rate for me in S1 even though I've been using him pre-buff lol.

So yeaaaaa if you really want to talk about carrying, DPS / hybrids are by far the most effective ones. Not to say that you can't strictly carry as a support, the most game changing ones are still the DPS when we're talking about uncoordinated play. You can be the best Mercy ever and never die but that won't win you games if your team doesn't do well enough despite all your heals. Whereas if you're a higher tier DPS then you can just do your DPS thing and you will exert a larger influence on the game. This is also why you don't see support mains like Chips playing healers in soloq. If they're already effectively better as DPS than their teammates, they're just going to play DPS to carry rather than with pure support, not including the fact that DPS are more interesting to watch. Ster however does soloq as Ana a lot, but Ana again is the only healer who has any chance of outhealing damage, and I wouldn't call him a support main; he probably just found Ana fun and still does respectable damage when necessary. It's just not as effective or worth the effort to carry as a support. But that's not to say that supports don't have a large influence on games. You do what you're best at, or what you're better at than the rest of the team and compensate for weaknesses within in if possible. If you're the best at support but the team damage just isn't cutting it, you gotta have to trade your healing for damage with Zen.

Also omg rofl sorry if I ramble too much xD if all that made any sense haha

Edit: I forgot to mention that high ground isn't necessarily good positioning as a support, since you might have emphasized that. It depends on the situation. Like if majority of the team is on low ground except for like one guy maybe Widow, you probably want to be together with the majority as they offer more protection unless they're too far out. Also if you're Mercy, it might be safer at times to stay on low ground then fly back to that Widow or whoever. This is a safer route compared to flying from widow on high ground to team since you are retreating, and putting distance from the enemy front line. If you're like Zen, you should only remain high ground alone if you have a complete sight line on flanks or your team isn't ahead and can drop back down immediately when necessary. It usually is good but not always.
 
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Joim

Pixels matter
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
4 games in a row (3-1), no one joined voice com.
2 hanzo mains who wouldn't switch. Except for attack, when one switched to Junkrat. He had 4 hours with him.
One symmetra/junkrat who wouldn't confirm a single kill who decides to leave (the loss, took a -30 yay).

Well I guess they must be carriable (mercy, mei, zarya used), because holy shit ELO hell...

Edit: fifth game, third Hanzo main. Won anyway but this team was good.
Edit: sixth game, Zarya only. Lost. Over 4k damage prevented, 50% average energy, gold damage, most kills were on high energy, spammed "ult ready" just to be ignored and had to use it when I felt it was a good moment, asked for some changes politely just to be ignored, healer complained no one dealt with hanzo round 1 so he changed and 1 healer less next round. Some people are literally uncarriable. There we are at the starting point despite having won 4 games in the best skill I've played lately.
 
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I wouldn't say Zarya/Roadhog are good tanks because they do a lot of damage haha. Reinhardt is basically the most consistent 'main tank' in the game. I should have brought up the topic of the definition of roles first though. Basically don't follow the in-game classifications since they're just super rough guidelines, and are more likely determined by their kits rather than how effective they are at whichever role. Zarya is basically a DPS-Tank, no doubt on that. I personally, and some people do agree on that Roadhog isn't a proper tank. All he has is the HP of a tank and that's about it. He doesn't block damage or provide the pushing power for his teammates. He doesn't enable his team like what a traditional tank eg Reinhardt does. All he does is punish people for being in his sightline. Basically a bodyshot sniper in my eyes lolllll. But yea all these are incredibly subjective and depends on your point of view.

I do agree that Plat and below, S76 is probably more effective due to lower accuracy requirement, and better self sustain. Which brings me to the point, the meta is different at different ranks of play. Which is also why I brought up 2/2/2 isn't the be all end all composition, but it's still more or less very reliable when in doubt. Oh and not to worry, Death Blossom Reapers aren't the only things players fail to kill haha. It's actually the problem of many players tunnel visioning and ignoring a lot of things that are happening or otherwise oblivious. An ulting Reaper is a free kill if you're protected by Transcendence. But players might not see it that way. They might just ignore him and go like hey that Mercy pick is more important even though she's like 30m away and unlikely to be killed at this moment. They don't comprehend how free kills are as important if not more so than an unreliable Mercy pick. Or you know they just had no idea the Reaper was ulting behind them for some reason simply because they didn't die to it >_> It happens haha.

As a support main myself, I have no qualms if I'm the solo healer as long as I see that the composition has sufficient sustain and what not. It may or may not be ideal to solo heal in certain cases, but I can make do with that. Most of the time I do expect to solo heal anyways, and occasionally actually prefer that to be the case so that I can build ult faster as long as people aren't taking too much damage. If people adamantly want to run 3 DPS, go ahead. Just keep in mind the heal priority and that you have to purposefully prioritize some players over others to maximize chances of winning. There are also things like 'bad healing' like extending to heal a teammate that are definitely going to die. All that does is probably feed more ults. If they aren't comfortable with healing, then it might actually be better for them to just go DPS if that's what they're more confident with, even though it may hurt the composition a little. The 'ideal' composition isn't just based on the meta. It's also based on the strengths and weaknesses of your team and the enemies' team.

Re: support carrying. I think I posted on reddit or something before about playing supports vs playing dps, though I'm not too sure if that's what you mean. The requirements of playing supports to their maximum potential is basically everything from a DPS minus aim and plus other things like heal priority etc. Everything needs good positioning and ult management etc. Supports don't have it any easier due to lower aim requirement when there will definitely be flankers to worry about, people solo ulting supports. All these are more prominent problems that supports face, and have a much smaller window for error. It's to the point where counting cooldowns, while useful for all players, is more relevant as a support. Like does Winston have his jump, Roadhog hook, and so on, and you have to change your positioning accordingly all the time because a lot of skills will be used specifically to target supports. It isn't as punishing if you're playing like Mei and you have no idea whether Winston can jump you or not. And the most effective supports still have amazing aim, especially on like Zen/Ana. Well actually, aim requirement is a thing to be properly effective as Zen/Ana. You're pretty much expected to deal DPS as Zen to complement his subpar healing. You need a little bit of aim with Ana to land heals on more finicky teammates and some clutch saves. But if you want some self protection as Ana, learning how to noscope enemies is pretty important too. Though I personally still like punishing some poor attempts from flankers with like Mercy pistol if I don't feel threatened at all lol. Not exactly sure if that's what you're talking about so eh xd hahaaa

If people do want to carry/play on non-support despite bad aim, you can play less aim intensive heroes and basically focus on other aspects like positioning, cooldown management etc. Winston is really good to just repeatedly punish supports if they can't focus you for doing that. Just jump in the moment they're not protected and they're dead in like 5s barring self heal from Lucio/Ana or second healer. Reaper's not too bad if you can shred tanks by just being in their face though you'd lose out against the squishes who have smaller hitboxes. There's a few options yea. I personally don't see aim as being one of the more important factors to playing well in this game. Game sense is probably way more important and will help you even if you're playing DPS.

Yea the problem of overestimating oneself is real and is a huge trap. Also the medal system is very misleading and people can be like I have gold elim gold damage I must be good. The medal stats are pretty irrelevant at judging skill without the context of the game (which is also why blizz pls stop using stats to affect rank changes).

"Well if have a game where my DPS sucks doesn't that mean a support isn't going to help them and we're still going to lose". Well, you might be underestimating how much teammates can actually do to actively harm the effectiveness of supports. Feeding basically removes your ability to heal them, unless you're going for 'ult feeding heals' which you shouldn't be doing. Overextending, regardless of whether they feed or not, also affects how much healing they can receive. If they have issues with positioning and staying alive (not even with aim), they're going to severely limit your heal output and there's nothing you can do about that without putting yourself at unnecessary risks as a support. While Harmony Orb on Genji going deep is usually a good thing, it doesn't matter if the Genji doesn't know when he should initiate and blindly tries to fight against a McCree, Reinhardt, Zarya, all just to kill the protected Mercy. Your healing there won't be helping him survive anything. The matter of whether or not a player survives a fight isn't determined by how much healing they are receiving. It is determined by the player's decisions. A player with good positioning and engagement will most likely survive/win the fight with or without healing, though healing will provide an advantage. No one should be expecting to come up on top of a fight simply because they are getting heals unless they're running a pocket strategy like el presidente or Pharmercy. Most damage by any player will out damage any amount of healing unless you're Ana. Healing does help with some 2HKO benchmarks like not getting 140-70 headshot-bodyshot by McCree, but to be fair
it won't actually help because chip damage is everywhere and McCree isn't going to be the only thing shooting at you, so realistically you'll still get 2HKOed, and that's without bringing into things like damage amp and discord. Healing isn't a reliable 'enabler' in OW. If you're going to die, you're probably going to die with or without heals for the most part. This is probably a very touchy topic that most people would disagree with though. I'd say healing helps with the battle of attrition and farming of support ults. Players being actively healed can offer more poke damage, but it doesn't enable them to win fights. Players themselves have to make the conscious effort of making sure they can receive heals in between fights. This comes with game sense. And if players don't have sufficient game sense, basically healing isn't going to make a difference.

Support ults are only as powerful as the teammates that are affected by it. A 3 man Rez isn't necessarily better than the 1 man Rez you make for the most effective player on the team if they're the one carrying the weight of the team. You can Sound Barrier all 5 other teammates but realistically it depends on how many people on the team knows how to make good use of it for it to be effective. That's the strength of supports. You amplify strengths and mitigate weaknesses. You cannot play support effectively without keeping that in mind unless you're playing on an equal 6 stack. I personally wouldn't say the 2 support team would inherently have an advantage over a 1 support team. I'd rather have 1 good support and 1 good tank/dps carry than 2 good support. You really have to multiply whatever strength there is, and if it isn't sufficient, you're basically screwed for the most part unless the enemy support are really poor like a Lucio on near perma speed aura or Ana tunneling on enemies.

So yea, while people have to be careful not to overestimate themselves on DPS, if the team is really not pulling its weight and you're the support and feel like you can definitely do more as DPS then go ahead if you know what you're doing. Or play Zen who is also basically a DPS / Hybrid. Just gotta make do and be very selective about your healing lol.

I mostly played Mercy in S1, but half the time I really just decided to lower my heal output and screw it by going Zen solo heal even in KOTH and with the help of my party we basically turned the whole game around. And there were times I just went Ana to farm ults and then spam heals on party members and give them the boost to roll with. I wouldn't say that Mercy is bad for comp, but design wise, she's pretty bad for carrying due to her reliance on teammate performance regardless if you can protect yourself from all the Genji/Tracer etc. Heals can't compensate for game sense or the lack of, and that's basically the only thing Mercy can do besides Rez / occasional damage amp. IIRC Zen has the highest win rate for me in S1 even though I've been using him pre-buff lol.

So yeaaaaa if you really want to talk about carrying, DPS / hybrids are by far the most effective ones. Not to say that you can't strictly carry as a support, the most game changing ones are still the DPS when we're talking about uncoordinated play. You can be the best Mercy ever and never die but that won't win you games if your team doesn't do well enough despite all your heals. Whereas if you're a higher tier DPS then you can just do your DPS thing and you will exert a larger influence on the game. This is also why you don't see support mains like Chips playing healers in soloq. If they're already effectively better as DPS than their teammates, they're just going to play DPS to carry rather than with pure support, not including the fact that DPS are more interesting to watch. Ster however does soloq as Ana a lot, but Ana again is the only healer who has any chance of outhealing damage, and I wouldn't call him a support main; he probably just found Ana fun and still does respectable damage when necessary. It's just not as effective or worth the effort to carry as a support. But that's not to say that supports don't have a large influence on games. You do what you're best at, or what you're better at than the rest of the team and compensate for weaknesses within in if possible. If you're the best at support but the team damage just isn't cutting it, you gotta have to trade your healing for damage with Zen.

Also omg rofl sorry if I ramble too much xD if all that made any sense haha

Edit: I forgot to mention that high ground isn't necessarily good positioning as a support, since you might have emphasized that. It depends on the situation. Like if majority of the team is on low ground except for like one guy maybe Widow, you probably want to be together with the majority as they offer more protection unless they're too far out. Also if you're Mercy, it might be safer at times to stay on low ground then fly back to that Widow or whoever. This is a safer route compared to flying from widow on high ground to team since you are retreating, and putting distance from the enemy front line. If you're like Zen, you should only remain high ground alone if you have a complete sight line on flanks or your team isn't ahead and can drop back down immediately when necessary. It usually is good but not always.
Well I'm not saying Roadhog and Zarya are good tanks because their damage and only their damage; shields / hook are great too. Roadhog is weird because he doesn't have any movement / shields like the others (he has a self heal instead, which can build ult fast but can also build ult for the enemy team if used at times where your death is guaranteed regardless). I feel like he need another tank to be used to his fullest potential, but hook is very good for starting engagements especially if you're behind a Reinhardt shield since it allows you to get early picks. Like in the same way a distraction Winston or a Reinhardt shield can help a team push up, Roadhog helps his team push up getting surprise kill early, lol.

Also me talking about Reddit didn't have anything to do with a post you've made there, I've just seen guides before which will literally say "DPS is the only way you're going to be able to carry your team" and then comments which are like "omfg my team is so shit the only chance of winning is with DPS blah blah blah", which I disagree with. Also things like targeting do suck as support but it's not like any role comes without its flaws. I guess my post came off as too positive for support, I didn't mean to make it sound like you don't have to worry about anything or you won't encounter issues but in general there's much less decision making and skill involved with playing support, and what you do can be game changing. Like maybe Harmony Orb won't help the Genji who runs into a 6v1 but it can help him win in the back lines vs the enemy Zen who isn't being protected by his ass team. Maybe Mercy can't outheal in Diamond+, but Mercy staff will definitely help a bad McCree if the enemy is just as bad, because you CAN outheal in lower ranks thanks to the enemy sucking lol (things like 140-70 just don't exist, or are very very rare.) As for aim, yes Zen does require aim but I think, similar to Soldier, he has other abilities (harmony / discord) which allow him to function even with bad aim. Idk about Ana, I think she's only really effective over other healers if you're either really really good or if you have tanks you can quickly gain ult off of. But her abilities can win games if used right so play her at your own risk :P In addition it's funny you mention Winston and Reaper because those are literally the tank / DPS I play most often xD they can be bad if the enemy has answers though.

I agree that your team's positioning / decision making is definitely a big factor when it comes to winning games and playing an effective support. In addition teammates like the Genji you mentioned can be detrimental to an otherwise good team. But at the end of the day if you have a team with those kind of players, and the enemy team is effective (grouping up in a way that helps their support / DPS, communicating, etc), you better have some Jesus on your side if you think switching is going to save you the game lol. And that goes for switching from DPS to support too. Like it sucks to have the team which is sitting in front of the enemy spawn on Ilios, or the team who dies in groups of three only to be ult spammed at the end of the game. But switching to DPS isn't magically going to help you win. It might make you feel better; your gold medals in kills / damage will give you fuel to blame your team. But at the end of the day you still lost, whether you were support or DPS or whatever. In fact I think support might even be more helpful in those situations, if you're spamming "group up" and people realize their healer is back on point they're going to fall back real quick lol. Lucio can even help his team push back with speed boost, I know I've done it multiple times before.

Support ults are interesting, and I do agree they depend on the skill of your team / the enemy, but in even-ish games the support ults have a very good chance of securing victory, or at the very least preventing a guaranteed loss, in a teamfight. Just ask any Zarya / Genji who lost due to well-timed Trans's, lol.

I guess my main point is I agree a lot with what you're saying, I do think that DPS / Hybrid / whatever picks can definitely carry, and are "better" than supports assuming the skill is there. There are also definitely times where switching to DPS is necessary to ensure a victory (Opposing Torb / Bastion is the most obvious example, but things like an unchecked enemy Pharah / Genji are also examples). But at the same time I think supports are very underrated in the gold / platinum ranks and are just as important as DPS when you consider the level of coordination your team AND the enemy team has. In addition people (not you) were / are acting like it's not possible to "carry" with supports and I disagree 100%. And if you do switch off healer, you better A. Know what the fuck you're doing, B. Pick heros who work well against the enemy team and C. Have a good reason for the switch. Otherwise you're going to feed, tilt the rest of your team, and would have been better off as a healer.

Also don't worry about rambling, I love reading long posts about Overwatch because it helps me get better too o3o
 

HailFall

my cancer is sun and my leo is moon
I think that you cant really carry in ow period. Obviously some players are going to be contributing more/less to the success of the team they're on, but you cant carry entire games by yourself; implying that such a thing is possible is just ridiculous. you arent realistically going to be able to frag your way to victory 1v6. support cant carry either, as the main issue at least that ive seen in lower level comp (gold rank) is dps/tanks that just ignore their healers getting jumped meaning the healers struggle to stay alive long enough to function. obviously some supports are less susceptible to this than others but they're all v squishy and come with their own issues like ana's sleep dart being so hard to hit consistently, zen's destruction orbs not really doing enough damage to beat something that takes him by surprise and weakens him before he gets the chance to attack unless he can headshot, etc. Zarya can support her team very well and is probably the hero that's best at "carrying" but she still wants to have healing to keep her alive due to low mobility. Rein can hold his shield up till the cows come home but without competent dps behind him/ana nano boosting him he struggles to get much done as hes so easily focused down while trying to attack. I could really go on but i think you get the point. it takes a full team of 6 to beat a full team of 6.
 
Yeah, I actually agree, carry is a bad word in Overwatch. Or at the very least, means something different when used in the context of Overwatch. Moreso it means making meaningful contributions which have a very direct and important role in winning the game, which a surprising amount of people don't do (or don't do often). It can also mean filling multiple roles and / or putting in more work to make up for poor teammates in certain situations. But again it isn't a very good word because teamplay / teamfights are so important that whoever has the most competent and coordinated team will usually win. Which is why I say once again if you're going to soloqueue USE MIC, it is seriously the biggest chance you have to win games even if it doesn't always work :P
 

Joim

Pixels matter
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
But no one ever uses mic!

I got another team in which I chose rein. There was a Mercy. The other were four dps, no one wanted to switch. Only the McCree was on mic, only to ignore my requests to change to soldier to provide healings and similar dps (also his aim sucked). He said he didn't care about losing, "it's just a game, why do you take it seriously", "I don't care if we all lose". He was fucking training aim in competitive.

On a match later, I was with a friend so we were playing rein-mercy to maximise winning. We got into yet another team of 4 dps with mandatory Hanzo. We got one to change to Zarya, but no one wanted to heal. We had to attack, and through using the shield fully without breaking it, calling flankers on mic (often ignored) and getting important picks with charge, I had an impact enough to finish the capture. I implore for a second healer on defense, I get a symmetra and torbjorn. The latter changes on last point, we get full capped. Next round we defend again, again one healer. They cap the point. Overtime past the gates (King's row). I die after a brutal focus from Zen, reaper, Mei. So I have to go back, charge Mei, use ult and solo 3 more to stop the payload. Time to attack. I implore tank and heal (the zarya had changed to reaper)... They change to dva and Roadhog. I change to Zen. We enter, I die to Mei on the backline. I see the killfeed, all of them dead to Bastion. I say fuck it and get Genji. I go again, with them, I have to deal with Mei, they die, but I strike on bastion, kill it, stay up (King's Row). I farm ult on Rein (healers haven't used theirs so I'm sure they have it already), team comes back, I get down and kill Mercy while behind everyone, go inside the houses and kill the McCree who was on high ground, use ult and kill Rein, oh Bastion's back half of my team's dead, E and bye fucker, capturing the point, we are two. Team arrives again, they come 1 by 1 to die. I go forth while payload advances, kill Bastion, use ult again to force a support counterult and we win.

Moral of the story is: I firmly believe you cannot carry on this game. But it's true that if you play the best you can, adapting to the situation no matter what, you make add a huge impact to the team winning. It will often not work, that's true, but after all it will make the difference between two equally skilled teams even if yours has a worse composition.
 

HailFall

my cancer is sun and my leo is moon
Okay so PTR got updated with a new patch that included some hero balance updates. Summarized, they are:
  • Widowmaker's scope time reduced from 0.5 seconds to 0.3
  • Ana's ultimate now takes 20% longer to charge
  • Ana's grenade's radius was nerfed from 4 meters to 3
  • Junkrat's tire animation now plays faster
Personally I'm happy with almost all of these. Im not a huge widow player but the buff will definitely help her out a lot imo. Pretty sure everyone saw ana ult nerf coming, given how ridiculously good its been recently paired with a reinhardt or ulting roadhog or whatever and how much she's getting picked. I dont really see a reason to nerf the 'nade given thats not actually the issue that was making her a bit op, and the 'nade is really just icing on the cake of her kit. I never saw the nade as problematic at all and i hope blizzard doesnt push the 'nade nerf into the main version when these changes get implemented. I dont really play junkrat at all so not gonna comment on tire buff.

So, what do you guys think about the changes?
 
"Controller users can now choose between two aiming modes
  • Dual-Zone mode (New default): The vast majority of the thumbstick's range moves with reduced sensitivity and relatively high acceleration. However, when the thumbstick crosses to the outer 10% of its range, it will move with high sensitivity and relatively low acceleration. This mode will allow for more precise aiming, while still allowing players to turn around quickly.
  • Exponential Ramp mode (Old default): As the thumbstick moves toward the outside of its range, the sensitivity is ramped up exponentially. The acceleration remains relatively high throughout"
console players get hyped
 
Okay so PTR got updated with a new patch that included some hero balance updates. Summarized, they are:
  • Widowmaker's scope time reduced from 0.5 seconds to 0.3
  • Ana's ultimate now takes 20% longer to charge
  • Ana's grenade's radius was nerfed from 4 meters to 3
  • Junkrat's tire animation now plays faster
Personally I'm happy with almost all of these. Im not a huge widow player but the buff will definitely help her out a lot imo. Pretty sure everyone saw ana ult nerf coming, given how ridiculously good its been recently paired with a reinhardt or ulting roadhog or whatever and how much she's getting picked. I dont really see a reason to nerf the 'nade given thats not actually the issue that was making her a bit op, and the 'nade is really just icing on the cake of her kit. I never saw the nade as problematic at all and i hope blizzard doesnt push the 'nade nerf into the main version when these changes get implemented. I dont really play junkrat at all so not gonna comment on tire buff.

So, what do you guys think about the changes?
I just looked at the notes and you've got it backwards on the ana thing, the nade actually getting buffed to 4m from 3m.

This patch is exciting for me. First off, I play a lot of ana and I agree that the the ult nerf was needed, but the nade buff and the tweaked console aiming will probably make her much smoother to play. Right now she's a lot more of an off pick than she is on PC because it's so hard to hit shots. I'm also curious about what will happen with widow on console with her buff and the aiming changes, she might be more than an irredeemable piece of garbage, who knows.

junkrat tire buff seems pointless and probably wont have much of an impact. in my experience most junkrats cast the tire from safety where the faster cast time isnt going to matter, and the main problem with the tire is that its slow and easily taken out by good players. imo a movement speed increase for the tire would be a more appropriate change.

and lastly, fuck not being able to test it >:(
 

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