Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

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Galactic HQ played with BW instruments.

That's 80% of Gladion theme to be honest.
I think you mentioned that earlier in the thread when we first met Gladion - but I don't hear it. They're in the same key, and use similar instruments, and probably would work if they shared a tempo, but the melodies/progression are totally different. They're no more similar than any of the 4-chords tunes.

That said, having paid closer attention to Emma's theme, the progression there is different, too - but similar in outline. Both Gladion's and Emma's melody is Doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo--Doo-DO-DO-Do, but the notes go up and down differently and the pacing is slightly different (though I'd discount that last part) (i'm so very technical) (my piano teacher is crying r/n). They could have used it as a base, or as an inspiration, but they definitely don't share a theme.


E: on close inspection of the quality and relevance of my post I've decided I've had too much exposure to the internet today... or possibly the internet has had too much exposure to me :|
 

CTNC

Doesn't know how to attack
Well, news is a bit slow for now, so please enjoy this picture of an IRL Bruxish

Unlike Lumineon the Pokémon is an actual improvement.
I agree disagree with the Pokemon being an improvement. The Real Life Version doesn't make me think of evil women from very old cartoons like Rocky and Bullwinkle... Referencing that show makes me feel old...

Edit: Realized I misread your opinion. I was way to tired when I posted this.
 
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Branching off entirely from previous discussions, I've realized that Wishiwashi is one of the most interesting concepts for a Pokemon that we've ever seen. I'd like to explore the lore behind it - to be specific, its school form.

Individually, it is not unlike a minnow - it's small and likely to have stats rivaling Magikarp and Feebas. Nothing special here - it's just a fish. But they can also come together into a school to form a creature so terrifying that even Gyarados flee from it. Now, given the school's cohesion and its resemblance to a huge fish, it's clear that they form a hive mind organism, where each individual fish temporarily loses its free will to under the same consciousness. The question is... whose mind is it? The way I see it, there are three possible theories: 1) It isn't a proper "one mind" scenario; every individual Wishiwashi simply knows where to go (like Vespiquen using Attack/Defend/Heal order); 2) the one that sent out the SOS signal gains control (like Zygarde); and 3) the combined organism has a completely different mind.

We can eliminate the first scenario by thinking from a gameplay perspective: When battling a School Form Wishiwashi in the wild, if it operated under the idea that every fish knows on its own where to go in the school, the Trainer should be able to catch hundreds of them by continuously chucking Pokeballs at the school. Assuming that catching the Pokemon ends the battle (as has always been the case), we can therefore deduce that, on some level, Wishiwashi-S is actually one being. However, it is also possible that Wishiwashi will only be catchable in its individual form (attempting to catch its School form might either simply fail or give a message similar to when you attempt to throw a Pokeball when there are two targets).

The second scenario seems more likely. After all, the school has been seen to disperse (breaking the hive mind) if it takes enough damage; this could mean that the leader can no longer focus enough to control the group. The only problems with it would stem from if two individuals send out SOS signals simultaneously (but in range of each other), and if one signals but only a few others come to its aid. In the case of two simultaneous SOS signals, what would probably happen is that they would rush towards each other, and then the stronger one would become the leader while the weaker one joins the school. This would still protect both of them from danger, as "even Gyarados flee from Wishiwashi's School form". In the case of one signaling but not having enough allies to form a school, I think what would happen is that the leader would still try to assemble the hive mind, but realize there aren't enough others to form a threat. Then they would disband and change tactics to running away.

In the third scenario, a sort of "neural network" between the brains of each fish forms, essentially creating a whole new entity. Although it's up for debate what would happen if you tossed a Pokeball at this conglomerate, it would solve the problem of two singular Wishiwashi SOS'ing simultaneously (they both assimilate into the school) and one receiving insufficient help (the neural power isn't strong enough to form the hive mind creature, therefore nothing happens). And if the school were subjected to some incident that would force them apart or otherwise disturb the order enough (such as, again, taking enough damage), it would simply shatter the network, causing each individual fish to re-awaken with no memory of being part of the school.

Obviously all of this is pure speculation; I encourage people to argue against me, add more details, or suggest alternate possibilities. Let's get the discussion going!
 
Branching off entirely from previous discussions, I've realized that Wishiwashi is one of the most interesting concepts for a Pokemon that we've ever seen. I'd like to explore the lore behind it - to be specific, its school form.

Individually, it is not unlike a minnow - it's small and likely to have stats rivaling Magikarp and Feebas. Nothing special here - it's just a fish. But they can also come together into a school to form a creature so terrifying that even Gyarados flee from it. Now, given the school's cohesion and its resemblance to a huge fish, it's clear that they form a hive mind organism, where each individual fish temporarily loses its free will to under the same consciousness. The question is... whose mind is it? The way I see it, there are three possible theories: 1) It isn't a proper "one mind" scenario; every individual Wishiwashi simply knows where to go (like Vespiquen using Attack/Defend/Heal order); 2) the one that sent out the SOS signal gains control (like Zygarde); and 3) the combined organism has a completely different mind.

We can eliminate the first scenario by thinking from a gameplay perspective: When battling a School Form Wishiwashi in the wild, if it operated under the idea that every fish knows on its own where to go in the school, the Trainer should be able to catch hundreds of them by continuously chucking Pokeballs at the school. Assuming that catching the Pokemon ends the battle (as has always been the case), we can therefore deduce that, on some level, Wishiwashi-S is actually one being. However, it is also possible that Wishiwashi will only be catchable in its individual form (attempting to catch its School form might either simply fail or give a message similar to when you attempt to throw a Pokeball when there are two targets).

The second scenario seems more likely. After all, the school has been seen to disperse (breaking the hive mind) if it takes enough damage; this could mean that the leader can no longer focus enough to control the group. The only problems with it would stem from if two individuals send out SOS signals simultaneously (but in range of each other), and if one signals but only a few others come to its aid. In the case of two simultaneous SOS signals, what would probably happen is that they would rush towards each other, and then the stronger one would become the leader while the weaker one joins the school. This would still protect both of them from danger, as "even Gyarados flee from Wishiwashi's School form". In the case of one signaling but not having enough allies to form a school, I think what would happen is that the leader would still try to assemble the hive mind, but realize there aren't enough others to form a threat. Then they would disband and change tactics to running away.

In the third scenario, a sort of "neural network" between the brains of each fish forms, essentially creating a whole new entity. Although it's up for debate what would happen if you tossed a Pokeball at this conglomerate, it would solve the problem of two singular Wishiwashi SOS'ing simultaneously (they both assimilate into the school) and one receiving insufficient help (the neural power isn't strong enough to form the hive mind creature, therefore nothing happens). And if the school were subjected to some incident that would force them apart or otherwise disturb the order enough (such as, again, taking enough damage), it would simply shatter the network, causing each individual fish to re-awaken with no memory of being part of the school.

Obviously all of this is pure speculation; I encourage people to argue against me, add more details, or suggest alternate possibilities. Let's get the discussion going!
"I used to think that defeating the School would take precise countering maneuvers, clever movepool manipulation and strong leadership. I was wrong. You can't out-think the school, you can't out-maneuver the school, and you certainly can't break the morale of the school. I hate to admit this, but I could do my job just as well if I ordered all my Pokémon to simply spam Super effective moves at anything that moves"

A quote from Starcraft that fits like a charm for the Wishiwashi dilema.
 
Branching off entirely from previous discussions, I've realized that Wishiwashi is one of the most interesting concepts for a Pokemon that we've ever seen. I'd like to explore the lore behind it - to be specific, its school form.

Individually, it is not unlike a minnow - it's small and likely to have stats rivaling Magikarp and Feebas. Nothing special here - it's just a fish. But they can also come together into a school to form a creature so terrifying that even Gyarados flee from it. Now, given the school's cohesion and its resemblance to a huge fish, it's clear that they form a hive mind organism, where each individual fish temporarily loses its free will to under the same consciousness. The question is... whose mind is it? The way I see it, there are three possible theories: 1) It isn't a proper "one mind" scenario; every individual Wishiwashi simply knows where to go (like Vespiquen using Attack/Defend/Heal order); 2) the one that sent out the SOS signal gains control (like Zygarde); and 3) the combined organism has a completely different mind.

We can eliminate the first scenario by thinking from a gameplay perspective: When battling a School Form Wishiwashi in the wild, if it operated under the idea that every fish knows on its own where to go in the school, the Trainer should be able to catch hundreds of them by continuously chucking Pokeballs at the school. Assuming that catching the Pokemon ends the battle (as has always been the case), we can therefore deduce that, on some level, Wishiwashi-S is actually one being. However, it is also possible that Wishiwashi will only be catchable in its individual form (attempting to catch its School form might either simply fail or give a message similar to when you attempt to throw a Pokeball when there are two targets).

The second scenario seems more likely. After all, the school has been seen to disperse (breaking the hive mind) if it takes enough damage; this could mean that the leader can no longer focus enough to control the group. The only problems with it would stem from if two individuals send out SOS signals simultaneously (but in range of each other), and if one signals but only a few others come to its aid. In the case of two simultaneous SOS signals, what would probably happen is that they would rush towards each other, and then the stronger one would become the leader while the weaker one joins the school. This would still protect both of them from danger, as "even Gyarados flee from Wishiwashi's School form". In the case of one signaling but not having enough allies to form a school, I think what would happen is that the leader would still try to assemble the hive mind, but realize there aren't enough others to form a threat. Then they would disband and change tactics to running away.

In the third scenario, a sort of "neural network" between the brains of each fish forms, essentially creating a whole new entity. Although it's up for debate what would happen if you tossed a Pokeball at this conglomerate, it would solve the problem of two singular Wishiwashi SOS'ing simultaneously (they both assimilate into the school) and one receiving insufficient help (the neural power isn't strong enough to form the hive mind creature, therefore nothing happens). And if the school were subjected to some incident that would force them apart or otherwise disturb the order enough (such as, again, taking enough damage), it would simply shatter the network, causing each individual fish to re-awaken with no memory of being part of the school.

Obviously all of this is pure speculation; I encourage people to argue against me, add more details, or suggest alternate possibilities. Let's get the discussion going!
There are "multiple body" Pokemon before Wishiwashi Schools though. Meagross is ultimately 4 Beldum fused together into a supercomputer. Exeggcute are 6 separate entities that aggregate together for safety and balance (they fall separately and come together to form telepathically linked groups). When you catch a Combee, according to the Dex, you're catching 3 of them in one Pokeball (each hexagonal cell is one sigular Combee and they fly together as one unit) And Magneton is just three Magnemite with enough polar charge to clump together. Binacle and Barbaracle are both multiple (2 and 7 respectively) goose barnacles anchored to the same rocks. Klinks are pairs of twins, separate entities that need the other to survive.

With that in mind, and taking into account how fish schools behave, I think your option 1 is actually the most likely to be correct, and the reason one can't toss Pokeballs at a school to just catch a bunch of Wishiwashi is the same reason you can't catch a Pokemon in Double and Horde encounters.
 
There are "multiple body" Pokemon before Wishiwashi Schools though. Meagross is ultimately 4 Beldum fused together into a supercomputer. Exeggcute are 6 separate entities that aggregate together for safety and balance (they fall separately and come together to form telepathically linked groups). When you catch a Combee, according to the Dex, you're catching 3 of them in one Pokeball (each hexagonal cell is one sigular Combee and they fly together as one unit) And Magneton is just three Magnemite with enough polar charge to clump together. Binacle and Barbaracle are both multiple (2 and 7 respectively) goose barnacles anchored to the same rocks. Klinks are pairs of twins, separate entities that need the other to survive.

With that in mind, and taking into account how fish schools behave, I think your option 1 is actually the most likely to be correct, and the reason one can't toss Pokeballs at a school to just catch a bunch of Wishiwashi is the same reason you can't catch a Pokemon in Double and Horde encounters.
I actually disagree with being unable to pick which individual to catch in doubles in hordes. Just pick one, and go for it! It's not that hard to aim!
 
[sweating because topic]

I do think that Wishiwashi would be the kind of Pokemon you could still catch in school form though. Little weird conceptually, since it would revert to a single wishiwashi, but one can assume the whole swarm scatters.

Or y'know, plotholes. Nonetheless, it's possible we won't even have a chance to see wild school-Wishiwashi's without hax
 
[sweating because topic]

I do think that Wishiwashi would be the kind of Pokemon you could still catch in school form though. Little weird conceptually, since it would revert to a single wishiwashi, but one can assume the whole swarm scatters.

Or y'know, plotholes. Nonetheless, it's possible we won't even have a chance to see wild school-Wishiwashi's without hax
I remember seeing a School Wishiwashi in an ingame cutscene that was shown in one of the trailers. It looked like one of those 'totem' wild Pokémon bosses.
 
I recall, but nobody can truly say that Totem Pokemon are even catchable. It seems like the objective of them is to prove your power in battle, not just catch them.
I'm still going to want to try throwing a Great Ball at them. Just to see what happens, you know? Scientific curiosity and all.
 
I think the Wishiwashi school acts more like a pack then a hive. Like with Wolves the pack work together to hunt, but lead their own lives. Sometimes if a member of the pack is in danger they will issue a distress signal to the rest of the pack, but if it gets to serious the pack will split. Maybe that was what they were going with.
 
I think the Wishiwashi school acts more like a pack then a hive. Like with Wolves the pack work together to hunt, but lead their own lives. Sometimes if a member of the pack is in danger they will issue a distress signal to the rest of the pack, but if it gets to serious the pack will split. Maybe that was what they were going with.
Or, you know, a school of fishes? :'D It's really just that, fishes use schooling also to avoid predation. Whishiwashi basically is an high polarity and high density school that not only "avoid" predation, but also strikes back. They're so well organized that they act as a single organism: clearly it isn't that way for actual fishes, but it represents how impressive schooling can be. There's nothing about it to hypothesize a "wolf pack affinity", other comments named bee hives just 'cause of the actual Combee example in the Pokémon World, not 'cause it's the most similar thing in the animal kingdom... If I'd have to associate Wishiwashi to a social animal other than schooling fishes, I'd say ants: they in fact can act as a "single life form" much more than both bees and fishes, let alone wolves; they even create rafts and bridges with their own bodies!
 
Umm...what?
One of the riddler hints is an image of a Japanese actress and an unrelated anime character. Project_Mars is suggesting that the hint is pointing toward a Water type that's part Ghost or Psychic since both people shown have some kind of supernatural connection to water (the actress played the girl from The Ring aka the evil spirit from the well and the anime character is a clairvoyant who uses water as a medium).

Even if he's wrong it's a great guess.
 
Riddler says we are getting info tomorrow, and the info will be related to the Z ring.

Makes sense since Junichi Masuda is actually in London now, preparing for some event, as said in his Twitter.
He just said it was "almost time" for the announcement (which the next one is supposed to be on the 4th). You're jumping the shark if you're assuming that means tomorrow. Masuda is in London for the Symphonic Evolutions show.
 
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