Perhaps Crunch + Earthquake? Then you'd only have to worry about Fairy and Flying or Grass types, which, if you manage to slot a Steel move onto Aegislash, you can deal with. For the most part, I think Aegislash can beat the things that resists that combo of moves. Though a +6 STAB Crunch will hurt, even resisted things.
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Battle Tree Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Eisenherz
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Isn't dark resisted by dark, fairy and fight?
Normal at least has its weakness covered entirely by ground though.
Also crunch is only power 80, while return is 102.
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actually nvm, you are right, return and EQ can't hit ghost flying type at all (e.g. Drifblim), so crunch in this case might be better.
Normal at least has its weakness covered entirely by ground though.
Also crunch is only power 80, while return is 102.
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actually nvm, you are right, return and EQ can't hit ghost flying type at all (e.g. Drifblim), so crunch in this case might be better.
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Btw, tried the strategy, met an AI team that has a protect garchomp and it seems to know the strategy and purposely try to counter it with protect as well, damn~~~ I really wonder how those people at the top get around this, since aegislash also can't handle EQ from garchomp.
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switching to the mimikyu with taunt now, hopefully that will counter-counter it :P
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switching to the mimikyu with taunt now, hopefully that will counter-counter it :P
Not really, you run into the staller Garchomp-1 set which looks to sandstorm, rock tomb and then spam Protect and let you die from chip damage. Gachomp-2 is a spatk set, Garchomp-3 is Scarfed, Garchomp-4 is Mega and doesn't run Protect.
One of the many staller sets.
It's worth reminding that lot of pre 30 sets are cheesy or trolly featuring complete nonsense sets that usually defeat you by purely making you wonder what the hell is that, and that there's actually dangerous other stall oriented sets later that you need to play around.
Mega Gyarados is Dark, so Crunch gets STAB and does more damage than Return on neutral targets.
Sand Tomb
Along that same line, you have to drain it of Sand Tomb PP too. THEN, it can't harm Aegislash OR trap it, disrupting the mass switching in the process.
Still, thank you to both for pointing out how Chomp1 is merely a mild annoyance in Singles (and only slightly worse in Doubles).
To Pencilcheck: Chomp1 is not countering you, it's just that, if it can't one- or two-shot you right away, it will often set sand and then use Protect liberally (it's actually not as bad now as it was in Subway, when it seemingly was part of that crew of sets who would Protect spam).
Finished Team. (Previous Version on page 91. Should i delete this post for clarity reasons?). Ready to shred to Tree - i really think one can get far with it.
(I dont have this team.. )
Tapu Koko
Item: Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252Spd
Timid
-Discharge
-Dazzling Gleam
-Grass Knot
-HP Water
Raichu
Item: Focus sash
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252Spd
Hasty
-Fake Out
-Helping Hand/Thunderbolt
-Discharge/Thunderbolt
-HP Ice/Thunderbolt
Landorus
Item: Life-Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 20HP/ 4Def/ 228SAtk/ 4SDef/ 252Spd
Timid
-Earthpower
-Sludgebomb
-HP Ice
-Protect
Celesteela
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 156 HP/28 Atk/212 Def/108 SDef/4Spd
_____(252 HP/28 Atk/132 Def/92 SDef/4Spd)
Impish
-Leech Seed
-Heavy Slam
-Wide Guard
-Protect
Explanation:
Discharge Spam & Boost Raichu. Terrain boosted STAB-Specs Discharge is incredibly strong. A boosted Raichu does again almost the same amount of damage.
Example: Double Discharge kills 28 Megas, including Metagross and Salamence; neutral hit Megas surviving it are only Heracross, Tyranitar, Gardevoir and Audino. The big majority of things that don't resist Electric should be dealt that way.
By the way: The chance that a Pokemon hit by two Discharges gets Paralysis is 51%, which may simplify some battles. In return this team hasn't as many status weaknesses as many other teams that don't use Tapu Fini. The leads cant sleep because of Electric Terrain, also there wont be much paralysis due to three Thunderwave Immunities and Lightningrod, Fire only decreases the power of Steela who isn't that much dependent on it and this stally thing has a Poison immunity. These things leave nothing desired except something against Ice. No protection (well, Wide Guard against Blizzard..), no defrosting, so yeah, think twice when facing ice (My rhyme book coming out soon!), but many teams have this weakness.
Some words to the electric resisting types:
Dragons: Discharge/Dazzling Gleam + Raichu support
Plants: Backrow should handle them. Sludgebomb is often OHKO.
Electric: Raichu thanks. And Lando of course.
Ground: The only real threat of the four Electric-resisting Types.
This massive weakness requires a tough backrow (more about Grounds below in the threat list).
They complement each other so well - Lando OHKOs most Electric/Fire Mons, and Celesteela may use the heaviest Heavy Slam in the Game to kill Ice Mons, while Lando protects. Even uninvested its often OHKO. Furthermore almost nothing that carries Water/Ice coverage can stand Double Discharge and therefore Lando may not have to face SE hits too often. Wide Guard of course for Spread Moves (many of them are dangerous to this pair: Blizzard, Heat Wave, Surf, Eruption, Water Spout, Explosion and not the least my own Discharge). Without bad luck involved i think Celesteela wins one vs one against 3/4+ of the tree. Without bad luck it would even win in the impossible situation of Mega Salamence AND Mega Metagross together! Yep, i was bored.
Development:
The main idea was as i mentioned earlier, an electric equivalent to R Inanimates team: Field/Weather-Support + Boosting by attacking with the corresponding spread move. For this purpose and with Fake Out beeing a necessity to me, Tapu Koko and Raichu are the only possibilities.
The backup needed to counter the huge Ground Weakness and i also wanted to exploit Discharge-spaming even more and came up with Mega Sceptile. For the fourth slot i considered Celesteela as it has Immunities to all weaknesses of my leads (well, there is only Poison and Ground..) and provides many other resistances. Its bulk, type and movepool should be perfect to counter many Earthquake-users. However Wide Guard was how i came to it: it shouldnt be screwed when paired with Discharge-locked Koko; also it is a nice (and buffed) support move that i always wanted to try out in Doubles.
While i got absolutely convinced that Celesteela would fulfill a crucial role in the team, i got doubts about Sceptile beeing that good. It is very frail and even resisted EQ may do a lot of damage. It also doesn't cover many threats it feels. And it hasnt Lightningrod when i want to switch it in Discharge. These reasons led to cast another Pokemon. Despite for it having to stand Ground and Electric attacks I dont know why i havent considered Landorus before. It needs to be a special set, for a nice STAB, since EQ wont work too well. Other moves are also chosen quickly and now its a Landorus that other people already came up with.
The last thing that "changed" was Surf from Raichu, since i noticed that it cant have Fake Out otherwise. First i thought this would lead to big problems when facing for example Camerupt or Rhyperior, but at second glance Helping Hand seems much better - more about that below.
Edit (May 18th): After DasEisenherz tried this team it appeared that Discharge on Raichu sometimes came in a bit unhandy because it made so much damage to Koko and one couldnt really bring Steela in without wasting a move if HP Ice wasnt required. These two problems have an easy solution: Play Raichu with Thunderbolt. The issue here is that all of Raichus slots are that important.. Also more below.
EVs/Nature/odd choices:
Tapu Koko: Some HP against A-Marowak. First i had HP Ground to also hit Electric Types/Lightningrod/Voltabsorb, but i think they really arent that dangerous with Lightningrod on my side. HP Water hits that meanie Camerupt, and helps against Rotom-Heat.
Raichu: With non Atk reducing nature Discharge and Fake Out kill this stupid Scarf Pinsir before it can try his Guilloutine. Timid for instance makes it survive Absols Sucker Punch after one round of Sandstorm. If this ever saves a match, i'll eat a banana.
Landorus: HP Ice KOes Scarf-Chomp, while still be able to survive Alakazams Psychic. On both cases it depends on every single point.
Celesteela: 28 Atk for OHKOing non-mega Alakazam and 2HKOing for example all Mamoswines and even 4 Lati@s sets. Surprisable amount of things that are OHKO/2HKO. 4 Speed EVs getting an empty speed-tier, as someone else using Steela pointed out. 132 or 212 Def to get one additional point from Impish nature. Survives Tyrantrum-4 Headsmash. The rest is divided in HP/SDef. The first spread is for maximized Lefties recovery, the second one for more general staying power.
Probably the first spread should be taken, because it is supposed to counter EQ-users the slow way.
Threat List:
Ground Types/Earthquake:
Most obvious threat. Fortunately some of them are two times weak to Grass/Water/Ice... From 113 Earthquake users that appear past 50, only 40 can even KO Tapu koko (25 ground types among them). Facing one EQuser i might go for Fake Out, facing two i might double switch out and let them chip themself down, facing flying partners i usually can hit them very hard and often KO them before they move; therefore combinations of such threats may not multiply the danger that much.
Also the backrow is immune to Ground, and can take some other hits as well as kill them fast (Lando) or stall them down (Steela). I think this Duo can easily take out many Mono-Type Ground teams. Actually i think Celesteela on his very own can do that ones Leech Seed is set. By the way: Only 4 nonchoiced sets that carry Earthquake also have Fire/Electric moves.
Trickroom:
Cant always prevent it, for example against Ghosts, Inner Focus and two users at the same time (altough for example all Slowbro sets are OHKOd with a single Discharge, which is very nice). Trevenant to be mentioned here, as he cant be KOed, and also has a nasty CB EQ set.
Lightningrod/Voltabsorb:
Immune to the main attacks of my leads, but they cant hurt me much, too. Steela may bait Electric attacks in presence of Raichu.
Fire Types:
This team has one Fire Weakness, but no resistance. There are some Fire Mons that dont go down quickly, but can deal huge amounts of Damage with STAB-FlareBlitz etc. My leads can do some damage of course, and Landorus (who has a really nice Speed, slightly outspeeding for instance Charizard (X/Y), Typhlosion, Entei, Ninetales, Mega-Blaziken (before Speed Boost), Volcarona) can KO many of them with Sheer Force STAB LO Earthpower. Scarf Eruption or Flareblitz in a bad time can be very troublesome. The first may be dealt with Wide Guard if Steela ist out, the second is just scary (-> Darmanitan)
Special Walls:
There are some incredibly bulky special things. Boosting Raichu or Leech Seeding may help. Snorlax makes me shiver.
Trace/Alakazam:
Foes stealing my Lightningrod arent fun. Gardevoir has big special bulk, so my leads wont do much damage.. But Celesteela can KO all sets. Alakazam however is a really risky thing: May be Mega and get Lightningrod, but may also be non-Mega and with Inner Focus, so Fake Out doesn't work. Smart play required. Landorus' EVs make him survive Psychic from any set. Together with, say, Fake Out damage Earthpower is save KO. Probably the best is to switch Raichu out for Steela and Dazzling Gleam. Whether Koko survives that round or not, in the next one Steela can KO with Heavy Slam. Here however is no dangerous 2nd foe taken under consideration yet. Luckily some of the other threats cant even appear together with Alakazam. Of those who can, Salazzle probably is the worst. I cant think of any situation that is more terrifying. iirc there are two trainers that can have both, and the chance that they lead with both is in the scale of 1/1000, so prayers of never encountering them together may be heard. Already mentioned that i was bored?
Salazzle:
Quick, Fake Out, Z-Move, Sludgewave, Sash, the pain doesnt end. Helping Hand Discharge OHKOs (the no-Sash set) and Fake Out + Discharge as well. When leading, probably go for Fake Out on him:
Case 1: He doesnt Fake Out: Perfect, Discharge takes him out then.
Case 2: Fake Out on Raichu: When Salazzle hangs on his Sash Koko will outspeed and kill him in the following turn if he survives the attacks of Salazzles partner.
Case 3: Fake Out on Koko: Raichus Fake Out will remove a Sash, so Koko can outspeed and KO in the following turn.
Fortunately you can avoid fighting Salazzle-3 and Alolan Marowak-2 when buying the right edition, because Kiawe is the only one who runs both. Salazzle-4 is outsped by Raichu and therefore a much smaller problem. Fake Out + HP Water or +0 Thunderbolt kill him fortunately.
Faster Fake Out:
In combination with other threats this may be terrifying, since my leads cant protect.
Scarf-Darmanitan:
Can OHKO my whole team, so he should be dealt with ASAP. His other set has Assault Vest, which also is not nice.
Scarf-Chomp:
Obviously one of the biggest threats to my leads. He may have Rough Skin, which destroys Raichus Sash if i go for Fake Out. When the other foes is not too dangerous i think this still is the way to go, or double switch out. However when the second foe is dangerous to the back row and front (simply: to my whole team), it gets difficult. Such Pokemon exist - i show my thoughts at the example of said Darmanitan:
One of the most dangerous situations imaginable (at the moment): Darm + Chomp, unknown if/which one is scarfed. Not possible to double switch, because Flareblitz kills anything. I think the best is to Fake Out Darmanitan and switch Koko out for Landorus. EQ brings Raichu to the Sash, but Darmanitan also gets a lot of damage. After this turn you also know which sets you face.
Case 1: Darm scarfed. This means Garchomp KOes his own mate. Lando and 1HP-Raichu both outspeed Garchomp and should be able to clear the situation.
Case 2: Chomp scarfed. Darmanitan may survive the EQ. 1HP-Raichu out for Celesteela, outspeed and kill Darmanitan with Lando. Chomp gets out in the following turn, because locked in the nondamaging EQ.
Case 3: Chomp Mega, Darmanitan Assault Vest. If Chomp EQs, he kills his mate. If he sets Sandstorm Darmanitan is KOed by Earthpower the next turn or i double on Chomp to take him out.
I think all three cases may not be too disadvantageous.
Other partners of Chomp also may be troublesome, Inner Focus Dragonite for instance, but i wont write how to react in any possible situation now.
Alolan Marowak:
Only Landorus can OHKO him, but my whole team is a OHKO to Flareblitz. Helping Hand HP Water OHKOs, but unfortunately he also has Protect... But HP Water and Flareblitz recoil also finish him.
Ferrothorn:
Only Landorus can hit it hard. One of the few bulky things Celesteela has trouble with.
Rotoms:
Wash and Fan aren't too dangerous, but the rest resists Electric and has strong STAB/Z-Moves none of my team members wants to take. As long as i can Fake Out them, they can be taken out before they attack.
Mega Gengar/Crobat:
(Helping Hand) Discharge is OHKO, but they cannot/shouldnt be Fake Outed and if they win the Speedtie Koko is gone, so better switch out.
Camerupt:
Lando, or Kokos HP Water + some other move (even Heavyslam).
Dragonite:
Though abilities, and a special defensive set that tanks my attacks and EQs back...
Nidoking/Queen:
Can OHKO my leads, one carries Protect, Fake Out may activate Poison Point and they carry SE attacks against the backline.
Mega-Tyranitar:
Destroys Raichus Sash, has tremendous bulk and hits hard as fuck. Fake Out + Grass Knot and Helping Hand + Grass Knot take him out.
Mega-Abomasnow:
Similar problems..
Muk:
Annoying Quick Claw Set, Poison Touch to break Raichus Sash, Explosion, ...
Heatran:
Annoying because only the Scarfed one is killed by two Discharges and it carries strong attacks that no team member wants to take. Also its unconvenient to Fake Out it because of Flame Body...
Blissey3:
This thing is damn hard to beat, as its hard to believe that something with Leech Seed is actually able to lose to Blissey. Its anything but safe that Celesteela can kill it, because Blissey3 knows Counter, and with the amount of damage Heavy Slam does to it, Counter is an instakill on Steela. After 11 rounds of Leech Seed its safe to KO it, however from +5 on Blissey can oneshot Steela with Thunderbolt too, so it depends on how much damage was dealt to it before, and whether one lands a lucky Heavy Slam in anything but Counter.
I guess once this team is played, some other threats will make it on that list. Notice that many threats have weaknesses to Earthquake themselfes; therefore the different threats don't stack that much when they appear combined.
Helping Hand Damage:
Helping Hand supported Koko reaches much more OHKOs in the Speed range between Raichu and himself, including 3 Latios and Thundurus sets, Azelf, Mega Houndoom, Salazzle, Alakazam, Mega Salamence, Mega Lucario, and other random Mons.
Nice Benchmarks:
Discharge + Fake Out do at least 100.7% to that Guilloutine-Pinsir.
Discharge breaks Mimikyus Disguise and +1Thunderbolt does exactly 100%.
D + Tb do 100%+ to Spiritomb.
D kills Slowbro and Jellicent (100.5%), so even some double TR leads can be dealt with.
Raichu with Thunderbolt:
As i mentioned it still may be better to play Raichu with Thunderbolt, because you dont 2HKO Koko and can bring Steela nicely in while still doing huge damage on that turn. Also it removes some Mons from the Threat List: All Dragonite sets get KOed by Discharge + Tb. Also some TR-setters can be KOed now: Cofagrigus (through Maranga Berry), Carbink and Bronzong are KOed, Dusknoir and Oranguru are in KO range with over 50%. Also top threats like Scarf-Darmanitan or Mega-Alakazam are KOed by single +1 Thunderbolt.
The only question is which move to give up: They all are crucial, Fake Out needs no words and Helping Hand is incredibly useful as it makes Koko OHKO so many dragons and other stuff. So give up Discharge with all its benefits and sheer power? Or is it worth to lose HP Ice and the capability to touch Grounds? I tend to the latter one. Against non-Electric immunities there are only Exeggutor-A, Sceptile-M, Ampharos-M and Rotom-Mow that get considerable less damage from Thunderbolt than the HP. Against Grounds that dont have a 4-times Ice weakness you still do only chip damage with HP unless boosted really high. You may want to remove Sturdy/Sash from Rhyperior, Steelix, Gliscor and Golem, and you may want to do nice 4-times damage to Gliscor, Landorus, Garchomp, Flygon and Torterra, but aside from that, you only do chip damage and rather want to switch out anyways. When this team is played it may turn out that having that HP is too life saving at times, but for now the benefits of both Thunderbolt and Discharge seem to compensate that.
Things to be desired:
A priority move.
A never missing move/Z-move.
Stopping Trickroom more effectively - Ghosts, Inner Focus Mons or two Trickroom users should get it off mostly.
About 6 additional moveslots for Raichu (Thunderbolt, Protect, Encore, Reversal, ...).
To me this team looks like a lot of fun as you have so many different things to try - boost Raichu while dealing huge spread damage, boost Raichu with absorbing Electric attacks aimed at Steela, use Wide Guard, Helping Hand, start stall wars after you got rid of Steelas last counter, manage to give Steela a kill for a Def boost to counter even more things, or just use the sheer power of Landorus...
Maybe i will add some calcs of Discharge. As i said, not many neutral hit things can stand Double Discharge.
Most battles should be won quickly.
Tapu Koko
Item: Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252Spd
Timid
-Discharge
-Dazzling Gleam
-Grass Knot
-HP Water
Raichu
Item: Focus sash
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252Spd
Hasty
-Fake Out
-Helping Hand/Thunderbolt
-Discharge/Thunderbolt
-HP Ice/Thunderbolt
Landorus
Item: Life-Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 20HP/ 4Def/ 228SAtk/ 4SDef/ 252Spd
Timid
-Earthpower
-Sludgebomb
-HP Ice
-Protect
Celesteela
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 156 HP/28 Atk/212 Def/108 SDef/4Spd
_____(252 HP/28 Atk/132 Def/92 SDef/4Spd)
Impish
-Leech Seed
-Heavy Slam
-Wide Guard
-Protect
Explanation:
Discharge Spam & Boost Raichu. Terrain boosted STAB-Specs Discharge is incredibly strong. A boosted Raichu does again almost the same amount of damage.
Example: Double Discharge kills 28 Megas, including Metagross and Salamence; neutral hit Megas surviving it are only Heracross, Tyranitar, Gardevoir and Audino. The big majority of things that don't resist Electric should be dealt that way.
By the way: The chance that a Pokemon hit by two Discharges gets Paralysis is 51%, which may simplify some battles. In return this team hasn't as many status weaknesses as many other teams that don't use Tapu Fini. The leads cant sleep because of Electric Terrain, also there wont be much paralysis due to three Thunderwave Immunities and Lightningrod, Fire only decreases the power of Steela who isn't that much dependent on it and this stally thing has a Poison immunity. These things leave nothing desired except something against Ice. No protection (well, Wide Guard against Blizzard..), no defrosting, so yeah, think twice when facing ice (My rhyme book coming out soon!), but many teams have this weakness.
Some words to the electric resisting types:
Dragons: Discharge/Dazzling Gleam + Raichu support
Plants: Backrow should handle them. Sludgebomb is often OHKO.
Electric: Raichu thanks. And Lando of course.
Ground: The only real threat of the four Electric-resisting Types.
This massive weakness requires a tough backrow (more about Grounds below in the threat list).
They complement each other so well - Lando OHKOs most Electric/Fire Mons, and Celesteela may use the heaviest Heavy Slam in the Game to kill Ice Mons, while Lando protects. Even uninvested its often OHKO. Furthermore almost nothing that carries Water/Ice coverage can stand Double Discharge and therefore Lando may not have to face SE hits too often. Wide Guard of course for Spread Moves (many of them are dangerous to this pair: Blizzard, Heat Wave, Surf, Eruption, Water Spout, Explosion and not the least my own Discharge). Without bad luck involved i think Celesteela wins one vs one against 3/4+ of the tree. Without bad luck it would even win in the impossible situation of Mega Salamence AND Mega Metagross together! Yep, i was bored.
Development:
The main idea was as i mentioned earlier, an electric equivalent to R Inanimates team: Field/Weather-Support + Boosting by attacking with the corresponding spread move. For this purpose and with Fake Out beeing a necessity to me, Tapu Koko and Raichu are the only possibilities.
The backup needed to counter the huge Ground Weakness and i also wanted to exploit Discharge-spaming even more and came up with Mega Sceptile. For the fourth slot i considered Celesteela as it has Immunities to all weaknesses of my leads (well, there is only Poison and Ground..) and provides many other resistances. Its bulk, type and movepool should be perfect to counter many Earthquake-users. However Wide Guard was how i came to it: it shouldnt be screwed when paired with Discharge-locked Koko; also it is a nice (and buffed) support move that i always wanted to try out in Doubles.
While i got absolutely convinced that Celesteela would fulfill a crucial role in the team, i got doubts about Sceptile beeing that good. It is very frail and even resisted EQ may do a lot of damage. It also doesn't cover many threats it feels. And it hasnt Lightningrod when i want to switch it in Discharge. These reasons led to cast another Pokemon. Despite for it having to stand Ground and Electric attacks I dont know why i havent considered Landorus before. It needs to be a special set, for a nice STAB, since EQ wont work too well. Other moves are also chosen quickly and now its a Landorus that other people already came up with.
The last thing that "changed" was Surf from Raichu, since i noticed that it cant have Fake Out otherwise. First i thought this would lead to big problems when facing for example Camerupt or Rhyperior, but at second glance Helping Hand seems much better - more about that below.
Edit (May 18th): After DasEisenherz tried this team it appeared that Discharge on Raichu sometimes came in a bit unhandy because it made so much damage to Koko and one couldnt really bring Steela in without wasting a move if HP Ice wasnt required. These two problems have an easy solution: Play Raichu with Thunderbolt. The issue here is that all of Raichus slots are that important.. Also more below.
EVs/Nature/odd choices:
Tapu Koko: Some HP against A-Marowak. First i had HP Ground to also hit Electric Types/Lightningrod/Voltabsorb, but i think they really arent that dangerous with Lightningrod on my side. HP Water hits that meanie Camerupt, and helps against Rotom-Heat.
Raichu: With non Atk reducing nature Discharge and Fake Out kill this stupid Scarf Pinsir before it can try his Guilloutine. Timid for instance makes it survive Absols Sucker Punch after one round of Sandstorm. If this ever saves a match, i'll eat a banana.
Landorus: HP Ice KOes Scarf-Chomp, while still be able to survive Alakazams Psychic. On both cases it depends on every single point.
Celesteela: 28 Atk for OHKOing non-mega Alakazam and 2HKOing for example all Mamoswines and even 4 Lati@s sets. Surprisable amount of things that are OHKO/2HKO. 4 Speed EVs getting an empty speed-tier, as someone else using Steela pointed out. 132 or 212 Def to get one additional point from Impish nature. Survives Tyrantrum-4 Headsmash. The rest is divided in HP/SDef. The first spread is for maximized Lefties recovery, the second one for more general staying power.
Probably the first spread should be taken, because it is supposed to counter EQ-users the slow way.
Threat List:
Ground Types/Earthquake:
Most obvious threat. Fortunately some of them are two times weak to Grass/Water/Ice... From 113 Earthquake users that appear past 50, only 40 can even KO Tapu koko (25 ground types among them). Facing one EQuser i might go for Fake Out, facing two i might double switch out and let them chip themself down, facing flying partners i usually can hit them very hard and often KO them before they move; therefore combinations of such threats may not multiply the danger that much.
Also the backrow is immune to Ground, and can take some other hits as well as kill them fast (Lando) or stall them down (Steela). I think this Duo can easily take out many Mono-Type Ground teams. Actually i think Celesteela on his very own can do that ones Leech Seed is set. By the way: Only 4 nonchoiced sets that carry Earthquake also have Fire/Electric moves.
Trickroom:
Cant always prevent it, for example against Ghosts, Inner Focus and two users at the same time (altough for example all Slowbro sets are OHKOd with a single Discharge, which is very nice). Trevenant to be mentioned here, as he cant be KOed, and also has a nasty CB EQ set.
Lightningrod/Voltabsorb:
Immune to the main attacks of my leads, but they cant hurt me much, too. Steela may bait Electric attacks in presence of Raichu.
Fire Types:
This team has one Fire Weakness, but no resistance. There are some Fire Mons that dont go down quickly, but can deal huge amounts of Damage with STAB-FlareBlitz etc. My leads can do some damage of course, and Landorus (who has a really nice Speed, slightly outspeeding for instance Charizard (X/Y), Typhlosion, Entei, Ninetales, Mega-Blaziken (before Speed Boost), Volcarona) can KO many of them with Sheer Force STAB LO Earthpower. Scarf Eruption or Flareblitz in a bad time can be very troublesome. The first may be dealt with Wide Guard if Steela ist out, the second is just scary (-> Darmanitan)
Special Walls:
There are some incredibly bulky special things. Boosting Raichu or Leech Seeding may help. Snorlax makes me shiver.
Trace/Alakazam:
Foes stealing my Lightningrod arent fun. Gardevoir has big special bulk, so my leads wont do much damage.. But Celesteela can KO all sets. Alakazam however is a really risky thing: May be Mega and get Lightningrod, but may also be non-Mega and with Inner Focus, so Fake Out doesn't work. Smart play required. Landorus' EVs make him survive Psychic from any set. Together with, say, Fake Out damage Earthpower is save KO. Probably the best is to switch Raichu out for Steela and Dazzling Gleam. Whether Koko survives that round or not, in the next one Steela can KO with Heavy Slam. Here however is no dangerous 2nd foe taken under consideration yet. Luckily some of the other threats cant even appear together with Alakazam. Of those who can, Salazzle probably is the worst. I cant think of any situation that is more terrifying. iirc there are two trainers that can have both, and the chance that they lead with both is in the scale of 1/1000, so prayers of never encountering them together may be heard. Already mentioned that i was bored?
Salazzle:
Quick, Fake Out, Z-Move, Sludgewave, Sash, the pain doesnt end. Helping Hand Discharge OHKOs (the no-Sash set) and Fake Out + Discharge as well. When leading, probably go for Fake Out on him:
Case 1: He doesnt Fake Out: Perfect, Discharge takes him out then.
Case 2: Fake Out on Raichu: When Salazzle hangs on his Sash Koko will outspeed and kill him in the following turn if he survives the attacks of Salazzles partner.
Case 3: Fake Out on Koko: Raichus Fake Out will remove a Sash, so Koko can outspeed and KO in the following turn.
Fortunately you can avoid fighting Salazzle-3 and Alolan Marowak-2 when buying the right edition, because Kiawe is the only one who runs both. Salazzle-4 is outsped by Raichu and therefore a much smaller problem. Fake Out + HP Water or +0 Thunderbolt kill him fortunately.
Faster Fake Out:
In combination with other threats this may be terrifying, since my leads cant protect.
Scarf-Darmanitan:
Can OHKO my whole team, so he should be dealt with ASAP. His other set has Assault Vest, which also is not nice.
Scarf-Chomp:
Obviously one of the biggest threats to my leads. He may have Rough Skin, which destroys Raichus Sash if i go for Fake Out. When the other foes is not too dangerous i think this still is the way to go, or double switch out. However when the second foe is dangerous to the back row and front (simply: to my whole team), it gets difficult. Such Pokemon exist - i show my thoughts at the example of said Darmanitan:
One of the most dangerous situations imaginable (at the moment): Darm + Chomp, unknown if/which one is scarfed. Not possible to double switch, because Flareblitz kills anything. I think the best is to Fake Out Darmanitan and switch Koko out for Landorus. EQ brings Raichu to the Sash, but Darmanitan also gets a lot of damage. After this turn you also know which sets you face.
Case 1: Darm scarfed. This means Garchomp KOes his own mate. Lando and 1HP-Raichu both outspeed Garchomp and should be able to clear the situation.
Case 2: Chomp scarfed. Darmanitan may survive the EQ. 1HP-Raichu out for Celesteela, outspeed and kill Darmanitan with Lando. Chomp gets out in the following turn, because locked in the nondamaging EQ.
Case 3: Chomp Mega, Darmanitan Assault Vest. If Chomp EQs, he kills his mate. If he sets Sandstorm Darmanitan is KOed by Earthpower the next turn or i double on Chomp to take him out.
I think all three cases may not be too disadvantageous.
Other partners of Chomp also may be troublesome, Inner Focus Dragonite for instance, but i wont write how to react in any possible situation now.
Alolan Marowak:
Only Landorus can OHKO him, but my whole team is a OHKO to Flareblitz. Helping Hand HP Water OHKOs, but unfortunately he also has Protect... But HP Water and Flareblitz recoil also finish him.
Ferrothorn:
Only Landorus can hit it hard. One of the few bulky things Celesteela has trouble with.
Rotoms:
Wash and Fan aren't too dangerous, but the rest resists Electric and has strong STAB/Z-Moves none of my team members wants to take. As long as i can Fake Out them, they can be taken out before they attack.
Mega Gengar/Crobat:
(Helping Hand) Discharge is OHKO, but they cannot/shouldnt be Fake Outed and if they win the Speedtie Koko is gone, so better switch out.
Camerupt:
Lando, or Kokos HP Water + some other move (even Heavyslam).
Dragonite:
Though abilities, and a special defensive set that tanks my attacks and EQs back...
Nidoking/Queen:
Can OHKO my leads, one carries Protect, Fake Out may activate Poison Point and they carry SE attacks against the backline.
Mega-Tyranitar:
Destroys Raichus Sash, has tremendous bulk and hits hard as fuck. Fake Out + Grass Knot and Helping Hand + Grass Knot take him out.
Mega-Abomasnow:
Similar problems..
Muk:
Annoying Quick Claw Set, Poison Touch to break Raichus Sash, Explosion, ...
Heatran:
Annoying because only the Scarfed one is killed by two Discharges and it carries strong attacks that no team member wants to take. Also its unconvenient to Fake Out it because of Flame Body...
Blissey3:
This thing is damn hard to beat, as its hard to believe that something with Leech Seed is actually able to lose to Blissey. Its anything but safe that Celesteela can kill it, because Blissey3 knows Counter, and with the amount of damage Heavy Slam does to it, Counter is an instakill on Steela. After 11 rounds of Leech Seed its safe to KO it, however from +5 on Blissey can oneshot Steela with Thunderbolt too, so it depends on how much damage was dealt to it before, and whether one lands a lucky Heavy Slam in anything but Counter.
I guess once this team is played, some other threats will make it on that list. Notice that many threats have weaknesses to Earthquake themselfes; therefore the different threats don't stack that much when they appear combined.
Helping Hand Damage:
Helping Hand supported Koko reaches much more OHKOs in the Speed range between Raichu and himself, including 3 Latios and Thundurus sets, Azelf, Mega Houndoom, Salazzle, Alakazam, Mega Salamence, Mega Lucario, and other random Mons.
Nice Benchmarks:
Discharge + Fake Out do at least 100.7% to that Guilloutine-Pinsir.
Discharge breaks Mimikyus Disguise and +1Thunderbolt does exactly 100%.
D + Tb do 100%+ to Spiritomb.
D kills Slowbro and Jellicent (100.5%), so even some double TR leads can be dealt with.
Raichu with Thunderbolt:
As i mentioned it still may be better to play Raichu with Thunderbolt, because you dont 2HKO Koko and can bring Steela nicely in while still doing huge damage on that turn. Also it removes some Mons from the Threat List: All Dragonite sets get KOed by Discharge + Tb. Also some TR-setters can be KOed now: Cofagrigus (through Maranga Berry), Carbink and Bronzong are KOed, Dusknoir and Oranguru are in KO range with over 50%. Also top threats like Scarf-Darmanitan or Mega-Alakazam are KOed by single +1 Thunderbolt.
The only question is which move to give up: They all are crucial, Fake Out needs no words and Helping Hand is incredibly useful as it makes Koko OHKO so many dragons and other stuff. So give up Discharge with all its benefits and sheer power? Or is it worth to lose HP Ice and the capability to touch Grounds? I tend to the latter one. Against non-Electric immunities there are only Exeggutor-A, Sceptile-M, Ampharos-M and Rotom-Mow that get considerable less damage from Thunderbolt than the HP. Against Grounds that dont have a 4-times Ice weakness you still do only chip damage with HP unless boosted really high. You may want to remove Sturdy/Sash from Rhyperior, Steelix, Gliscor and Golem, and you may want to do nice 4-times damage to Gliscor, Landorus, Garchomp, Flygon and Torterra, but aside from that, you only do chip damage and rather want to switch out anyways. When this team is played it may turn out that having that HP is too life saving at times, but for now the benefits of both Thunderbolt and Discharge seem to compensate that.
Things to be desired:
A priority move.
A never missing move/Z-move.
Stopping Trickroom more effectively - Ghosts, Inner Focus Mons or two Trickroom users should get it off mostly.
About 6 additional moveslots for Raichu (Thunderbolt, Protect, Encore, Reversal, ...).
To me this team looks like a lot of fun as you have so many different things to try - boost Raichu while dealing huge spread damage, boost Raichu with absorbing Electric attacks aimed at Steela, use Wide Guard, Helping Hand, start stall wars after you got rid of Steelas last counter, manage to give Steela a kill for a Def boost to counter even more things, or just use the sheer power of Landorus...
Maybe i will add some calcs of Discharge. As i said, not many neutral hit things can stand Double Discharge.
Most battles should be won quickly.
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Now, if Tapu Koko only had Moonblast, then this would work pretty well.(Finished Team. (Previous Version on page 91..). Ready to shred to Tree - i really think one can get far with it.)
(I dont have this team.. especially Surf-Raichu is super hard to get i think. If you have feel free to try it out.)
Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252Spd
Timid
-Discharge
-Moonblast
-Grass Knot
-HP Ground
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252Spd
Timid
-Fake Out
-Discharge (Thunderbolt)
-Surf
-HP Ice
@ Life-Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP/252SAtk/252Spd
Timid
-Earthpower
-Sludgebomb
-HP Ice
-Protect
@ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP/140+Def/SDef/4Spd
(nature depends on the final set)
-Leech Seed
-Heavy Slam
-Wide Guard
-Protect
Explanation:
Discharge Spam & Boost Raichu. Terrain boosted STAB-Specs Discharge is incredible strong. OHKOes for example any Slowbro Set. A boosted Raichu does again exactly the same amount of Damage. (It may be thought of using Thunderbolt instead: A Trickroom user like Dusknoir4 survives two Discharges, but gets at least 99.2% Damage of Charge and Bolt. Other examples exist.). The big majority of things that dont resist Electric should be dealt that way. (By the way: The chance that a Pokemon hit by two Discharges gets Paralysis is 51%)
Dragons: Moonblast + Fake Out/Hidden Power Ice. Luckily Moonblast kills most Dragons. Fake Out + Moonblast kills even Mega-Garchomp (I guess one should always Fake Out Chomp, because Scarf EQ is terrible. Beware of a set with Protect. Double Switching may also be good)
Plants: Backrow should handle them. Sludgebomb is often OHKO.
Electric: Raichu thanks. And Lando of course.
Ground: The only real threat of the four Electric-resisting Types. See below in the threat list.
Some more words to the backrow: They complement each other so well - Lando OHKOs most Electric/Fire Mons, and Celesteela may use the heaviest Heavy Slam in the Game to kill Ice Mons, while Lando protects. Even uninvested its often a OHKO. Wide Guard of course for Spread Moves (many of them are dangerous to this pair: Blizzard, Heat Wave, Surf, Eruption, Water Spout, Explosion and not the least my own Discharge).
Team Building:
The main idea was as i mentioned earlier, an electric equivalent to R Inanimates team: Field/Weather-Support + Boosting by attacking with the corresponding spread move. For this purpose and with Fake Out beeing a necessity to me, Tapu Koko and Raichu are the only possibilities.
The backup needed to counter the huge Ground Weakness. Celesteela has Immunities to all weaknesses of my leads (well, there is only Poison and Ground..) and provides many other resistances. Its bulk, type and movepool should be perfect to counter many Earthquake-users. However Wide Guard was how i came to him: it shouldnt be screwed when paired with Discharge-locked Koko; also it is a nice (and buffed) support move that i always wanted to try out in Doubles. With this Def-EVs it survives that stupid Headsmash from CB-Tyrantrum, but anything else needs to be figured out.
For the other backup my first intention was another Lightningrod to complete Discharge-Boost-Spam and came up with Ground-resistant Sceptile. However it is very frail and even resisted EQ may do a lot of damage. It also doesnt cover many threats it feels. And it hasnt Lightningrod when i want to switch it in Discharge. These reasons led to cast another Pokemon. Not very many immune to Ground and Electric: The choice of Landorus should be obvious. It needs to be a special set, for a nice STAB, since EQ wont work too well. Other moves are also chosen quickly and now its the Landorus from atsync.
Threat List:
Ground Types:
Most obvious threat. Actually i think they are not too dangerous since many of them have two times weaknesses to Surf/Grassknot/Ice... Also the backrow is immune to Ground, and can take some other hits as well as kill them fast (Lando) or stall them down (Steela). I think this Duo can easily take out many Mono-Type Ground teams. Actually i think Celesteela on his very own can do that ones Leech Seed is set.
Lightningrod/Voltabsorb:
Immune to the main attacks of my leads, but they cant hurt me much, too. Kokos HP Ground helps a bit.
Fire Types:
This team has one Fire Weakness, but no resistance. There are some Fire Mons that dont go down quickly, but can deal huge amounts of Damage with STAB-FlareBlitz etc. My leads can do some damage of course, and Landorus (who has a really nice Speed, slightly outspeeding for instance Charizard (X/Y), Typhlosion, Entei, Ninetales, Mega-Blaziken (before Speed Boost), Volcarona.) can KO many of them with Sheer Force STAB LO Earthpower. Scarf Eruption or Flareblitz in a bad time are one of the biggest threats i think. The first may be dealt with Wide Guard if Steela ist out, the second is just scary (-> Darmanitan)
Special Walls:
There are some incredible bulky special things. Boosting Raichu or Leech Seeding may help.
Scarfer:
Some Scarfer are really dangerous to this team. Darmanitan also is super dangerous; only Lando survives non-crit Flareblitz savely.
Eruption Spam also can be unconvenient (as Fire Mons in general are) if it appears in the wrong situations. In turn one i can Fake Out + Discharge, reducing the damage. In other situations i might lose my leads since i cant switch Lando/Steela in. Once they are in, i can use Wide Guard/Earthpower. Chomp of course isnt seen with pleasure, too.
As always with Scarfer one needs to play smartly around.
Alolan Marowak:
He gets a special mention. Only Landorus can OHKO him, but my whole team is a OHKO to Flareblitz. Thats one reason to play Koko with HP Ground: Together with Raichus Surf they also can kill Marowak.
I guess once this team is played, some other threats will make it on that list.
Maybe i will add some calcs of Discharge. For instance DoubleDischarge is easily capable of taking out relative bulky things as Mega-Meta/Mence.
Most battles should be won quickly.
You'd have to run Dazzling Gleam, since Tapu Koko can't learn Moonblast.
And also, random thought, would Special Lando-T work instead? It would help out against Marowak-A with Intimidate, thus allowing even no bulk Landorus-T to survive Flare Blitz, then OHKO the following turn.
This is so cool, I'm honored!So, in OR I've managed to breed for two excellent Modest Swirlix. My original intention was to create my own Slurpuff4 (the well-noted nemesis of Scythes back at the Maison thread), but with a 6IV hatchling and a second, 5IV 0 Atk hatchling on hand, I now have some flexibility to pursue this from a couple of different angles and get Slurpuff on the overall leaderboards (no one on the Maison thread has ever used it, Lord knows why, and obviously no one on here would be caught dead with it).
In Maison, I will try to copy one of the successful Triples teams there (one I haven't tried yet) and replace of the team members with Slurpuff4: while there's no doubt that the Expert Belt is better suited to plenty of other mons, Slurpuff4 gets plenty of useful coverage and covers offensive holes well enough that teammates can focus a little more on boosting and support moves.
My trouble right now is in Tree; I want to use special attacker Slurpuff, just not sure how to approach it and have no real ideas as to what team to build around it. Anybody got anything for me, or should I just copy Set 4 twice over and bring it over as is?
For reference, Scythes' nemesis looks like:
Slurpuff4 (Slurpuff) (Lvl.50) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sweet Veil/Unburden
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Dazzling Gleam
Did you know that Slurpuff can learn calm mind?
I guess you could stick a sitrus berry on it and pray it activates so you get the speed buff, and then *voila!* you can sweep.
You could play around with yawn as well if you're willing to give up coverage. It might give you the needed time to set up.
I'm just getting back into Tree battling after taking a break for several months. I'm using a team very similar to my last one, but with Aegislash instead of Mega Metagross, and with a Life orb on Golisopod instead of assault vest. Garchomp still has the Rockium Z.
Nowadays it's Salamence4 that gives me headaches though. Still, I'll update if I manage to get anywhere with this - at 85 currently.
Thanks for your comment!
Rip I had a 47 Battle Streak:
My mistakes:
- My slowbro didn't have enough defenses invested, I foolishy thought Bold+20 Def EV would be enough. I invested another 40 Def EV into it.
- Haxorus + Steelium is actually a really good, sweeping lead(Steelium for the massive amounts of Ice and Steel Types, but according to this thread the AI doesn't cheat? Lol!)
Against a fighting trainer I made the mistake for thinking Haxorus can survive Mega Lucario Close Combat. It can't. The AI followed than with a Grass/Fighting Type(Slowbro/Chansey) and finally Gallade which killed Slowbro/Chansey. I would have made it if I studied the enemy trainer better beforehand and investing a tad more in Defenses for MegaBro(so it is 60% 2HKO and more like 50% 2HKO if I switch in Slowbro fresh into Chesnaught again)
My mistakes:
- My slowbro didn't have enough defenses invested, I foolishy thought Bold+20 Def EV would be enough. I invested another 40 Def EV into it.
- Haxorus + Steelium is actually a really good, sweeping lead(Steelium for the massive amounts of Ice and Steel Types, but according to this thread the AI doesn't cheat? Lol!)
Against a fighting trainer I made the mistake for thinking Haxorus can survive Mega Lucario Close Combat. It can't. The AI followed than with a Grass/Fighting Type(Slowbro/Chansey) and finally Gallade which killed Slowbro/Chansey. I would have made it if I studied the enemy trainer better beforehand and investing a tad more in Defenses for MegaBro(so it is 60% 2HKO and more like 50% 2HKO if I switch in Slowbro fresh into Chesnaught again)
You can't skip the first 30-50 battles with another team, or else it wouldn't qualify as a "streak". Not to mention the early battles have some very janky sets that could very well beat your "real team" like the two guys with Ice type team, the Hypnosis Gengar, the Stockpile Walrein, the scarf Flinchodactyl, etc., that are all missing in later teams. Anyone who tries to blitz through with another team should have their streak disqualified.
Word of advice: Don't try to bring that up here without backing it up with more than anecdotal evidence. We've yet to see any actual numbers crunched that suggest that the AI cheats, despite accusations going back more than a decade.
The AI always follows a dead poke with a pokemon that has supereffective / 1hko chance if it's in the team.
You likely lost against this guy:
https://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/battletree/bette.shtml
Who has among his sets:
All the 3 pokes mentioned by you.
And not surprisingly, mega lucario does threaten 1hko on Haxorus.
252 Atk Adaptability Lucario-Mega Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 162-192 (107.2 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I'm afraid you need better claims before asking for the "AI Cheating", because I see no cheating there, just a loss to a misplay trying to blame it on the AI.
It's also quite natural that the AI sent Chesnaught against your Slowbro, because the AI priorizes pokemon with supereffective hits when sending his backline in after a KO or a swap.
While you're free to have that opinion, there is no rule against switching teams mid-streak, as long as the Trainer actually reports having done so in the write-up. There is a certain amount of skill involved in getting used to one team...and then ridding yourself of that to try something else and establishing that rapport all over again, so one could see doing so as another type of challenge to undertake.
Besides, you're very rarely going to have to worry about this occurring: not just because of the above-cited issue, but because most of the Trainers here have way too much pride in their creations to let some of these janky sets scare them. A blitz team is a perfectly valid option for The First 50...but you also have the option to, well, not be a pussy with the real team you've made.
Plus, in general, if a team struggles to consistently beat the cheesy pre 30 sets, it likely will have way harder times against actually threatening stallers and cheese sets post legend.
One thing is having to deal with "stall 11x6 IV garchomp with Sand Tomb", another is having to deal with an actually bulky poke that setup 3+ evasion boosts behind a sub (there's a few of those sets) and is watching you die to Toxic, Sandstorm or Leech seed (Regigigas, Cradily, Shuckle, Blissey to mention some of such terrifying sets), or Dugtrio-2 which on top of having sub also has super high speed and FISSURE.
One thing is having to deal with "stall 11x6 IV garchomp with Sand Tomb", another is having to deal with an actually bulky poke that setup 3+ evasion boosts behind a sub (there's a few of those sets) and is watching you die to Toxic, Sandstorm or Leech seed (Regigigas, Cradily, Shuckle, Blissey to mention some of such terrifying sets), or Dugtrio-2 which on top of having sub also has super high speed and FISSURE.
LOL why stop there? You should force everyone to beat the regular mode with their "real team" as well because maybe there's something that counters them and would have prevented them from unlocking super singles/doubles/multis in the first place. Never mind that even if there were some doubles team on the leaderboard that's threatened by Scarf Aerodactyl, for example, it would be trivial for such a team to just go 30 battles without running into it in the lead position and getting flinched by it.
There's pride and there's understanding that once you have some basic level of proficiency, you can easily throw 3 OU/Uber Pokemon together and smash through the low-tier crap with imperfect IVs that populates the 40 or so battles much more quickly than it takes to set up every time (and if you lose, just try again and you'd probably get back to 40 in less time than it takes a slow team to win that many in the first place). In addition, what would be the simpler explanation: that players who don't understand simple game mechanics such as STAB and what the move Taunt does have somehow stumbled across sets that 'counter' Entrainment teams in the early battles; or that they just don't know how to play the game very well and made numerous easily avoidable mistakes?
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guys guys guys instead of jumping on his shitty and otherwise baseless logic lets compromise for the sake of bipartisanship and togetherness: every time you change something about your team, including and especially replacing filler moves with something you decide will be more useful, you invalidate all the battles before it and subtract em for your streak. so you dont get disqualified but you run the risk of cutting your streak by dozens if not hundreds or thousands of battles. lol its like a toll! pay up!
unfortunately this utterly rapes anything i put on a leaderboard cause i did this repeatedly, my moon streak is like 30 now but how will ppl take me srsly if i dont practice what i preach
unfortunately this utterly rapes anything i put on a leaderboard cause i did this repeatedly, my moon streak is like 30 now but how will ppl take me srsly if i dont practice what i preach
I think where you and I diverge is that I find all parts of the Tree equally interesting, mainly because I am interested in seeing how different Trainers react to different parts of it. Some people nearly crumble in the face of these early foes--the last couple of pages provide evidence of that; others adapt to them and pick them apart (you remember your detailed logs of your Singels battles early on in the thread?). Secondarily, as the Resident Facility Bot Wannabe, I do get a little bit of satisfaction from observing how these early sets make sure that Trainers don't just sleepwalk through them--you either change things up by employing a blitz team, or stick to your real team and pay attention to what you're doing from the start.
In your specific case, I think Gastrodon has made less of an impression than you would have thought simply because it's been demonstrated that it's actually quite good (the East Sea variant being superior, of course) and not that niche; it was cool seeing how often it was used in Maison (and then going back, before my time, to see how it was used in Subway).
Coeur7 Well, now you've made me curious and I need a trip down memory lane.
Blastoise1, Alakazam1* Golem3, Hypno1, Snorlax3, Steelix3, Porygon22, Hariyama2, Glalie1, Rampardos2, Drapion2, Gallade3, Dusknoir1. I had to include D/P to pump up the list, as HGSS doesn't have enough, especially on the Fling side.
*Not only does it have no item-swapping move, this fuck is Modest with Psycho Cut as its only attacking move, as well as Trick Room.
Anyway, I must admit I have no filler moves on any Tree poke I actually care to use, but there are some crummy things like Lurantis that basically have filler because I'm waiting to see if USUM does anything to give it even a little more appeal, like Superpower and Knock Off. The closest I've had to filler was Aron, on the same team as the notorious Gardevoir (who in addition to Iron Ball ran two attacks of the same type. Oh yeah.)
Fling on Gardevoir outdamages Psychic on Gengar3 due to its Payapa Berry. And it outdamages Shadow Ball on all non-mega Alakazam builds, while having high odds of OHKO. So there exists a scenario where it- I'm having a hard time actually saying it's the optimal move choice, but numbers don't lie.
Blastoise1, Alakazam1* Golem3, Hypno1, Snorlax3, Steelix3, Porygon22, Hariyama2, Glalie1, Rampardos2, Drapion2, Gallade3, Dusknoir1. I had to include D/P to pump up the list, as HGSS doesn't have enough, especially on the Fling side.
*Not only does it have no item-swapping move, this fuck is Modest with Psycho Cut as its only attacking move, as well as Trick Room.
Anyway, I must admit I have no filler moves on any Tree poke I actually care to use, but there are some crummy things like Lurantis that basically have filler because I'm waiting to see if USUM does anything to give it even a little more appeal, like Superpower and Knock Off. The closest I've had to filler was Aron, on the same team as the notorious Gardevoir (who in addition to Iron Ball ran two attacks of the same type. Oh yeah.)
Fling on Gardevoir outdamages Psychic on Gengar3 due to its Payapa Berry. And it outdamages Shadow Ball on all non-mega Alakazam builds, while having high odds of OHKO. So there exists a scenario where it- I'm having a hard time actually saying it's the optimal move choice, but numbers don't lie.
What is baseless and shitty about if you made it to Battle 91 but only started using your real team after battle 50, that team only has a streak of 40? Yes, YOU, the player has a streak of 90, but the team you used doesn't. Especially when you are reporting yourself for the leaderboard, where the team streak is what matters and not the player streak. And I would consider teams that skipped the early part to be lesser than teams that played through that part because there are legitimate threatening sets that don't exist in later parts. Yes, your real team may be able to beat those threats quite easily, but without battling against them, there's no proof. And I don't understand why someone brought up Stall Garchomp, that set is legitimately crap.
Again, I am only speaking from a record keeping perspective, since that's part of what this thread is about. If you just want to get through those early battles to get to test your teams against later opponents, sure. But if you are actually reporting them as part of your streak for the leaderboard, then that's a really gray area.